[alberg30] RE: Another New Alberg Owner
Horton, Ross G.
rhorton at pwcgov.org
Mon Nov 15 15:46:06 PST 1999
From: "Horton, Ross G." <rhorton at pwcgov.org>
Hello to all.
I am another relatively new Alberg 30 owner having purchased Delphi,
#40, a 1964 boat, which I am trying to bring back to proper form. I was
pleased to find this forum because like any new owner, I have lots of
questions about the proper way to repair/rebuild the various things that
need fixing.
I also had to deal with the mast step before I could put any strain
upon the mast. The glass around the step was fine but the upper portion of
the mast step on my boat was cracked in several places around and through
the bolt holes. This is the piece that has the shoe or heel that the mast
fits over. The bottom piece that is bolted to the deck over the main beam
was still in good shape. The top piece had welded itself to the mast and
could only be removed with brut force. Needless to say it became several
more pieces by the time it was out of the mast. I was told by a friend with
a machine shop that the aluminum casting was too contaminated to be properly
welded together. We cut the heel portion from the rest of the casting and
bolted it(and bedded with 3M5200)to a stainless steel plate that was
slightly larger than the original casting. Bolt holes (slots) were cut in
the plate for the mast step bolts and the four edges of the plate were
punched with holes and then bent up at a 45% angle to provide attachment
points for blocks and halyards. The purpose was to provide an easy way to
lead the halyards back to the cockpit. It seems to work well but the front
portion needs to be bent more or cut off because it interferes with the
opening of the forward hatch more than about 75 degrees.
Question-the mast step is designed to have about an inch of play
fore and aft in its location. Is there a preferred position? I put the new
step back where the original was located ( as near as I can tell ) with the
bolts in the center of the slots. Would moving it forward or aft change the
balance or have much effect on trim or pointing ability?
Ross Horton
Delphi, #40
-----Original Message-----
From: alberg30 at onelist.com [mailto:alberg30 at onelist.com]
Sent: November 15, 1999 3:29 AM
To: alberg30 at onelist.com
Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 439
There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Re: New A30 owner
From: FINNUS505 at aol.com
2. Re: Jammed main halyard
From: Dick Filinich <daf at mobiletel.com>
3. Re: Name change?
From: THOMASHMCD at aol.com
4. Re: Mast Step Removal
From: "alberg30" <alberg30 at interactive.net>
5. Re: New A30 owner
From: Rap1208 at aol.com
6. Re: Name change?
From: Rap1208 at aol.com
7. Re: Name change?
From: walshe <walshe at unixg.ubc.ca>
8. RE: Name change?
From: "Forhan, Thomas" <Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov>
9. Re: Name change? Hell yes!
From: "alberg30" <alberg30 at interactive.net>
10. Re: Name change?
From: Bob Johns <bobjns at nais.com>
11. name change
From: Joyce Sousa <jsss at net1plus.com>
12. Heaving to under sail
From: Joseph Fleming <joseph-fleming at usa.net>
13. Prop size for Atomic 4
From: "Andy Vine" <andyv at intergate.bc.ca>
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 08:15:27 EST
From: FINNUS505 at aol.com
Subject: Re: New A30 owner
Hi Tom,
Just to add to what I said yesterday, it seems most of the A30 owners are
the
kind of people who enjoy tinkering on and repairing their own boats, so
there
is plenty of advice here for you. The boats are all very similar, and after
30-40 years, have similar upkeep/repair needs, so most likely, what ever it
is you have to do, someone on the list has done it already!!!!
So ask first, if you don't feel like re-inventing the wheel.
Enjoy,
Lee
Stargazer #255
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 07:38:25 -0600
From: Dick Filinich <daf at mobiletel.com>
Subject: Re: Jammed main halyard
FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:
>
> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com
>
> Hi Dick,
> Yes, I enjoy your stories. Send me some to my emai adress if you think
the
> list would be 'bored'!!
> Lucky you have pals that can make you a sheave. when you take it out,
you'll
> see the sheave rides on a compression tube of aluminum, which slides over
a
> SS bolt. It was all frozen on my boat and had to be cut with a Sawzall.
The
> Mast was fine, and I agree, it is a nice thick extrusion. It was the
> retaining plates, the two aluminmum plates that the sheave rides
inbetween,
> that I had made double thickness. Worked out well, and I would recommend
the
> change.
> I would also strongly recommend going to an all rope halyard. These days,
> the StaSet, or staset X stretch as little as SS wire, and without the
splice
> to thimble junction limiting the run of the halyard, the line becomes more
> versatile. Have your buddy retool the sheave for rope. if the retaining
> plates are smooth and lead fairly, and you keep the halyard centered when
> sailing, and tied to the boom when the boat is not being used, then chafe
> should not be a problem. But if you ever run aground, and time is running
> out, like the tide is ebbing, and you want to use your main halyard to
heel
> the boat over briefly to decrease drafft, and float her off, then the rope
> halyard, with an extra long tail, might save the day. Might help in
> retreiving a man overboard, too, in a pinch.
> Alot of Alberg 30's haveno mainhalyard winch- you just hauled up the sail
to
> the top, belayed, and then fixed luff tension with the downhaul, which is
> attached to the boom. Stargazer has an old bronze #2 Southcoast winch for
> the main halyard, and properly cleaned and greased, it does just fine.
You
> can get one, second hand, for under 50 bucks. Ebay on AOL has had a few in
> the past few months.
> Stargazer came with one of those wire halyard winches with the wire being
> captive on a drum, with a brake, for the genny halyard, and I have heard
too
> many stories of sailors being hurt by these, when the brake slips under
> pressure, and the handle, still attached, becomes a mad, self driven
weapon.
> But I needed a genny halyard winch, so I modified it as follows-
> !) changed the halyard to double braid Sta-Set.
> 2)using a Sawsall (yes, I like that tool!!) I cut off the guard on the
bottom
> of the winch that helped keep the wire spooled on the drum. This enabled
me
> to just use the drum for three wraps of line, like a normal winch.
> 3) tightened the brake maximaly, manualy, and taped off the brake handle
so
> no one would loosen it by accident.
> Hope this helps,
> Lee
> Stargazer #255
>
> Lee and All.Yesterday spent the day dee rigging my mast and examined
every single piece of hardware that came off,and buffed the whole mast
and spreaders down to bare metal.There was only one crack and that was
in the mast to spreader mounting bracket,its about a 1/2 " long not even
gonna fool with it.My mast is 35' exactly.I contacted Traditional marine
outfitters,there in Nova Scotia and cold as a grave diggers butt.While I
wait for word on winch with Tim with company,I'm going
down to my boat this morning and check if one of my spinnaker winches
will replace cable winch.If I'm lucky I have the mast up by next weekend
maybe.I can always replace spinnaker winch at my leasure,Cable winch
bolts are frozen solid to aluminum to get it off probably will mean a
useless winch when I finish.You like a sawsall,well we get lots of use
from a weapon we call a metabo blade.Thin carbon blade that replaces
buffing or grinding wheel on 4 1/2" mini grinder.Stainless steel does
not cut with a torch ,but be careful with this use heavy leather
gloves,this blade can cut to the bone in a heart beat.Gonna go with new
lights while I've got the mast down,and the spreaders and upper shroud
chain plates?will be painted black to break up that powder puff all
white appearance."High Spirits"# 191 Dick
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 09:42:58 EST
From: THOMASHMCD at aol.com
Subject: Re: Name change?
Hi Lee,
Thanks for the insight, and yes I do want to change the name , but isn't
therre some sort of old sailors myth that changing the name of a vessel puts
her on a course of destiny that involves sinking? My buddy advised me that
even so, in this case it is worth the risk! "Kittypoo"? I don't think so!
Tom
Undecided, #49
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:27:02 -0600
From: "alberg30" <alberg30 at interactive.net>
Subject: Re: Mast Step Removal
Guy: Sorry its taken so long to get back to you. A couple of thoughts on
the mast-step repair.
1) When I removed my mast-step plate, the whole plate and screws corroded
in place came out of the deck with some prying. I tried unsuccessfully for
some time to unscrew the bolts that went into the deck, but they wouldn't
budge. Thus the whole thing eventually came out. I have tried to get the
bolts out of the plate after the fact, but haven't been able to. I read in
one Maintenance Manual article where a guy drilled them out then retapped
the plate.
2) The mast-step doesn't bolt or screw into anything other than the deck,
which is basically fiberglass and the core. It doesn't even through bolt
through the deck. I asked this question once before, and everyone seems to
agree that the bolts in the mast-step plate are really just "feet" meant to
keep the mast from "walking" away. I don't really like this idea, but
perhaps this is what has allowed A30's to be demasted (like Yves Gelinas
#399 "Jean de Sud") and not have damage to the coach roof. If you were to
through bolt the mast-step, upon demasting, would you have the coachroof
ripped open? Does it matter?
There is,however, an article in the Maintenance Manual where a guy retapped
the mast-plate, and then also embedded nuts into the fiberglass deck, to
which he screwed the new bolts into it. Interesting idea, but I can only
imagine trying to get things to line up--while being gummed up with resin.
Not to mention you have to drill out your corroded bolts in the first
place. If you were to embedd the nuts, I wonder what added strength you'd
get--what kind of bond is there on the resin/fiberglass that would hold
some 1/2" bolts? Seems like not much.
Seems like, the bolts are there just to keep the mast-step from sliding
around. So--for now-- I plan to just drill some pilot holes in the new
deck, fill with resin, and stick the whole plate, stuck bolts and all, back
in place. I think later I may explore the through bolt idea. I just
hesitate to try and drill out the bolts.
On things not to do:
1) If you're doing the top down repair, consider making your repair area as
small as possible. This will keep as much of the outer skin in tact as
possible and make your cosmetics that much easier later on. Take the time
to tape and mask all surrounding areas. I mean everything near by. I made a
mess everywhere. The only thing more messy than resin is 3M5200. If you do
make a mess, 60 grit sandpaper on an orbital sander with clean it up,
although forget about the gelcoat.
However, I would really caution making the repair area too small. While the
actual damaged core area on my boat was maybe 8" x 12", I went overboard
and cleared an area 2x2'. Way too much. But 8" x12" is also too small.
You're trying to strengthen the whole area remember. So route clear into
some solid core and establish a broad repair base.
2) For coring material, use that stuff George Dinwiddie recommended,
Kleg-cell fiber mat foam from a company called Fiberglass Coatings, Inc
1-813-327-8117, website www.fgci.com . The stuff is not that expensive, and
although I didn't use it, I wish I had. I used pieces of oak wood, because
I am a cheap bastard and a dumbass. The problem with hard wood is that you
have to make the pieces small enough to get the camber of the deck right.
Then your mast-step area requires all this work to make it smooth and level
and in camber. Thats what I'm working on now. Pain in the butt.My
impression of the foam is it can be bent, and then it absorbs the resin
making it strong stuff after set-up.
3) This project is fairly complex, so allow enough time. As usual I
underestimated the time it would take. I expected it to get done in a few
weekends--I am now on my ninth month. It takes time to do it right I think.
And you want to consider some kind of covering, like a small awning to
allow you to work throughout the day, in light rain, maybe direct sunlight
whatever. The weather has been my greatest enemy.
4) To route out the glass and core, use a router with a Carbon steel bit.
These are the monster looking router bits at Home Depot, mine are
industrial yellow. Don't even waste your time trying to use Black n' Decker
regular router bits they'll go dull in the first ten minutes and start
smoking. (It took me three standard bits--before I asked someone at Home
Depot what the hell my problem was. Spend the money up front and buy the
heavy duty flavor.)
On another note, don't use a flat bladed screw driver to try and chisel/pry
out pieces of glass or core. Use a extra wide wood chisel, please!! I
punched a hole through my liner using a screw driver. The chisel was like
magic--once I pulled my head out my ass.
5. Don't use just resin and coring material for the repair. You need a
filler mixed with the resin to beef it up. Otherwise you'll go through a
gallon on resin before you know it. Mix it up with the heaviest filler
adhesive you can find.
6. You really need a consensus of information--like from the Maintenance
Manual to develop your strategy. If you dont have the articles let me know
and I will get you copies of what I have.
Hope that helps. As I think of more things, I let you know. Because of my
dumb decisions, my pervasive cheapness, and my ridiculous hurry, I am now
fixing my mistakes from earlier this year. Namely the cosmetics.
PS-let me know your thoughts on the through-bolt idea for the mast plate.
Best of luck,
Joe #499
"One Less Traveled"
----------
From: Guy Lalonde <lalondegc at videotron.ca>
To: Joe Tokarz <alberg30 at interactive.net>
Subject: Mast Step Removal
Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999 10:07 AM
Hi Joe,
I tried removing the mast step plate on the deck today. It was held down by
6 screws which came out no problem. However the plate won't budge. How did
you get your plate off ?
Regards,
Guy.
Cyrena #466
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:37:24 EST
From: Rap1208 at aol.com
Subject: Re: New A30 owner
Tom, The hull number means it is # 49, built in '64. I was trying to
remember who needed a rudder profile. I took pictures of mine. I'll send
with the negative so you can blow it up to size on your wall, and trace an
outline. Send me your snail mail address and I'll send it along Russ
Pfeiffer
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:56:05 EST
From: Rap1208 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Name change?
Tom, I've changed the names on four boats with no dire results. Never mind
all that suppersticious stuff, just do it. Pour a drink in the water at
appease the gods if you will, then forgetaboutit.
Russ Pfeiffer
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:36:29 -0800
From: walshe <walshe at unixg.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: Name change?
Hi Tom:
Just in case you want to hedge your bets as far as offending the gods, there
is
a ceremony you can undertake as part of the renaming. We did it in
September
when we renamed our recently purchased A30, Anilavara(Skt for Wind Lover).
You'll find a description of the ceremony at the 48 degrees North web site -
or
search under "Vigor's interdenominational boat denaming ceremony"(sorry, my
printout doesn't include the address). Even if you don't believe in this
stuff
it can be an entertaining event - an excuse for gathering friends and
family.
Catherine Walshe
Anilavara - 175
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 13:52:27 -0500
From: "Forhan, Thomas" <Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov>
Subject: RE: Name change?
It sounds like this boat already has had its share of bad luck.
Change the name ASAP!
Tom F.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: THOMASHMCD at aol.com [SMTP:THOMASHMCD at aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 9:43 AM
> To: alberg30 at onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] Name change?
>
> From: THOMASHMCD at aol.com
>
> Hi Lee,
> Thanks for the insight, and yes I do want to change the name , but isn't
> therre some sort of old sailors myth that changing the name of a vessel
> puts
> her on a course of destiny that involves sinking? My buddy advised me
> that
> even so, in this case it is worth the risk! "Kittypoo"? I don't think
> so!
>
> Tom
> Undecided, #49
>
>
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 13:58:50 -0600
From: "alberg30" <alberg30 at interactive.net>
Subject: Re: Name change? Hell yes!
Tom:
Appease the Gods!! This will tell you how:
http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rname.html
Joe #499
"One Less Traveled"
----------
> From: Rap1208 at aol.com
> To: alberg30 at onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] Name change?
> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:56 AM
>
> From: Rap1208 at aol.com
>
> Tom, I've changed the names on four boats with no dire results. Never
mind
> all that suppersticious stuff, just do it. Pour a drink in the water at
> appease the gods if you will, then forgetaboutit.
> Russ Pfeiffer
>
>
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:24:19 -0500
From: Bob Johns <bobjns at nais.com>
Subject: Re: Name change?
Hi List,
That business of name changing is just a foolish superstition. Our boat was
named "Pumpkin II" and we changed the name to "Wind Call". (After Carleton
Mitchell's book, The Winds Call.) We have owned the boat since 1976 and
thoroughly enjoyed it.
Nothing unusual has happened in the 23 years we have owned the boat unless
you count a few minor events like the boat winding up on the beach in front
of the restaurant where we were to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary,
a car accident (see page 93 of the the 1999 Yearbook), and being totaled by
hurricane Bob. No damage on the first one, the car was totalled on the
second (and the mast, shrouds and chain plates had to be replaced ob the
boat), and the boat was rebuilt after the hurricane.
There are probably a few more minor things that happened during the years,
but I can't think of them now. I hope that this settles once and for all
that the business of not renaming a boat is just a silly superstition! Wind
Call was never sunk.
Cheers,
Bob Johns, Wind Call (formerly Pumpkin II), #397
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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:30:48 -0500
From: Joyce Sousa <jsss at net1plus.com>
Subject: name change
When we changed the name on #114 from URANIA (there is no way we could
keep that name) to CARINA VELA (which means loosely translated from the
Latin: keel-sail), we simply placed a silver dollar under the masthead
for luck and had our own little ceremony. I think we have appeased the
Gods since we have had excellent luck with her known as Carina Vela.
Joyce Sousa
#114
Carina Vela
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Message: 12
Date: 14 Nov 99 21:10:21 EST
From: Joseph Fleming <joseph-fleming at usa.net>
Subject: Heaving to under sail
I hope to sail to Bermuda next year. I would like to know
if there is anyone out there who has had any experience
heaving to in an A30 under sail in a storm at sea. Boats
react differently. I have never had the "pleasure?". Your
sail dimensions? Type? Setting? Stability? Other
reactions? WE could all learn something. Luck,Joe
____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 22:20:45 -0800
From: "Andy Vine" <andyv at intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Prop size for Atomic 4
As new owners of Anila Vara (#175) we are interested in hearing from others
about the best propellor size and pitch for the Atomic 4. Our current prop
is 11" and gives us about 4.8 knots at 1500rpm in smooth water. (The
mechanic who worked on the motor said we should run at 1400 - 1600rpm.) The
motor is rated at 30HP at around 3500rpm so clearly we are not taking full
advantage of the available power. Would a smaller prop help?
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