[alberg30] Lectrasan MSD

[sunstone]

From: sunstone <sunstone at idirect.com>

George, et al,
About 9 years ago our club bought a pumpout system for about $8000 CDN
installed including a large holding tank which is periodically emptied
by a "honey wagon".    The pumpout is used without charge to our club
members and last year we incurred about $600 in expenses rebuilding the
pump, the first expense since its installation.

We have no record as to how many boats use it each year, or how many
times, but it certainly is in the high (no pun intended) hundreds if not
more and certainly in the thousands over its first 9 years.   Our club
has a membership of 220.

The point is that it is not that expensive and up here the going
commercial pumpout ranges from $10-$15 CDN, clearly such fees will
guarantee even the most inept business person a profit.
 
Marianne King-Wilson is right when she reports the scandalous sewage
conditions at Montreal and Vancouver, but that is not to excuse us from
doing our bit as boaters.   Granted it is a small bit.

In the Great Lakes on the Canadian side you must have a holding tank and
Y valves will earn you a fine of $5000 first offence.   The system must
be physically disconnected from a through hull discharge port and a Y
valve is not considered "disconnected."

I don't know what US policy is in the GL area but I have personally
witnessed "accidental" discharges in our waters and I do not find it
amusing, particularly when it happens in an anchorage.   Therefore, the
banning of direct connections to overboard discharge through hulls makes
sense as it eliminates accidental discharge through a Y valve. 

As for grey water from sinks and dishes, well when the Ontario
Provincial Government attempted to legislate that one an even us
didactic "knee jerk" folk balked on that, particularly after reading the
"study."  They withdrew it.

But black water ... well 'nuf said.

I agree with you on lawns, agricultural run off, municipal
improprieties, industrial, etcetera but as your teachers doubtless told
you as they did me "just because Billy did it doesn't mean you can...
and the old two wrongs don't make ...."

Take care and fair winds,

John



George Dinwiddie wrote:
> 
> From: George Dinwiddie <gdinwiddie at min.net>
> 
> > sunstone said:
> >
> > Gee we've had holding tank, no discharge laws for years, seems perfectly
> > reasonable to me, in fact I can't believe that any place on earth would
> > allow raw discharge.
> 
> John, it's not raw discharge that we're talking about, though the
> county doesn't mind dumping thousands of gallons of that into a small
> creek if they have problems with a pumping station.  The question is
> dumping small amounts of treated sewage.  Granted, this does add
> nitrogen to the water, but probably not as much as fertilizing your
> lawn.  So, I don't fertilize the lawn, prefering to grow my grass
> and shrubs organically.
> 
> I guess that both sides of the Great Lakes are no-discharge areas, is
> that not so?  What about Canadian ocean waters?
> 
> > Get after your legislators to require all marinas and yacht clubs to
> > have pump out facilities, I mean you can't operate a restaurant without
> > wash room facilities, apply the same principle.
> 
> In Maryland, they've made a big push for more pumpouts, requiring them
> for marinas beyond a certain size and also making grants available
> for putting them in.  This has helped the situation such that the
> state felt they could duplicate federal laws.  They now can enforce
> the regulations with the Natural Resources Police, giving an
> economic benefit to the state and resulting in more enforcement.
> Unfortunately, many of the new pumpout stations are at shallow
> water locations, not of use to most sailboats.  Also, these stations
> are not much use to those of us who don't keep our boats in a marina.
> 
> > The world will definitely be a better place for it.
> 
> I'm all for making the world a better place.  I have a Mansfield
> system and I try to use it responsibly.  I live on the water and
> sail on the water and I want it to be clean.  It's not clean, but
> for reasons that have little to do with boats.
> 
> Back to the question of no-discharge zones, I just took a look at
> the EPA web site and couldn't find a list.  They have a page
> (http://www.epa.gov/owowwtr1/oceans/vesseldischarge/index.html)
> that lists states with no discharge zones as of Feb 1998, and a
> search turned up a few press releases related to areas of New
> York and New Jersey.  I couldn't find any list of current no
> discharge zones, however.  I've emailed an inquiry.
> 
> You can find the US law on Marine Sanitation Devices at
> Title 33, chapter 26, subchapter III, Sec. 1322
> (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1322.html).  The
> no-discharge stuff is in subsection (f), particularly paragraph
> (3):
> 
>    After the effective date of the initial standards and regulations
>    promulgated under this section, if any State determines that
>    the protection and enhancement of the quality of some or all of
>    the waters within such State require greater environmental
>    protection, such State may completely prohibit the discharge
>    from all vessels of any sewage, whether treated or not, into
>    such waters, except that no such prohibition shall apply until
>    the Administrator determines that adequate facilities for the
>    safe and sanitary removal and treatment of sewage from all
>    vessels are reasonably available for such water to which such
>    prohibition would apply. Upon application of the State, the
>    Administrator shall make such determination within 90 days of
>    the date of such application.
> 
> Note that none of this talks about graywater, which is defined at
> the beginning of the subchapter.  That's a different topic and I
> don't know what is the legal basis of such restrictions.
> 
> Also, the law provides for exempting procedures for vessels of
> the armed services.
> 
> --
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
>   The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
>   sailing.          http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30/
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> 
> ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities,
> programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter4 ">Click Here</a>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

ONElist:  your connection to like-minds and kindred spirits.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 936304542.0