From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949392942.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949393719.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949413098.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414271.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414688.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949437665.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949447935.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949463831.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949461904.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949462343.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467091.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467480.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467550.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467781.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949468786.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949469011.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949478802.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949499793.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501390.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501447.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501463.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501777.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504735.0 From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504882.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949510751.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949513201.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949514661.0 From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949520183.0 From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949522475.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949533102.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535186.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535708.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949537509.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949538044.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949584528.0 From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949621036.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623245.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623846.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624084.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624744.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949626283.0 From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949627621.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949628789.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633681.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633814.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949647569.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667114.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667272.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949669754.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949679818.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949683546.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949685485.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949694268.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949698440.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949700585.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949708370.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949710400.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949714072.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949715119.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949716277.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949719172.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949735851.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949761157.0 From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949771570.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949773509.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949791463.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949797448.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949800772.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949805320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949812705.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949819667.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949847021.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949851568.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857833.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857906.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949858170.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949867006.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949881960.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949891006.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949930706.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949937125.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939751.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939262.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939258.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939261.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939259.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939256.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939376.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949941732.0 From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949943701.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949955899.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949956321.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949961450.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949962267.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949965411.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969874.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969498.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984450.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984855.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949985331.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949974417.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949973750.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977068.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977809.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949979438.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949980858.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989123.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989702.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949990519.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950003571.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950005896.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950013073.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950015287.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950022174.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950025237.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026026.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026143.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950019803.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950032148.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950046778.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048553.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048988.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950058942.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060297.0 From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060583.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950063522.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950070234.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950071412.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950072185.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950073556.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950074214.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950106113.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950107350.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950110195.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950112292.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950114795.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950116095.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950126462.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950127665.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137166.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137897.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137626.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950139100.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950144976.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950164265.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950159686.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949934305.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186429.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186194.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950195500.0 From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950242508.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950243460.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950247521.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950278244.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950277987.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950282918.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950290190.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291145.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950295975.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291825.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950333728.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950337676.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950364110.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365689.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365812.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950368468.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950426138.0 From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950472142.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950530887.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950543710.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950576997.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950566719.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950584051.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950594160.0 From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950632319.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950634775.0 From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950644108.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950626322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950646747.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950657017.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950680063.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950695571.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950723053.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950750834.0 From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950752150.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950759344.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950800529.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950811323.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950845326.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950886351.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950883455.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950891474.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950899080.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950900568.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950901771.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950909368.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950921942.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950922167.0 From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950928549.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930413.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950910007.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950944664.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950968049.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950970398.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950971268.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950972247.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950974160.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950975188.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951003447.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951002080.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951001771.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951021382.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951056417.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951060784.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951070460.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951071343.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951081167.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095083.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095870.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951115076.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951141441.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951146820.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951149559.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154133.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154254.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951166537.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951167293.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951171299.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951181254.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951189320.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951190086.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951232670.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951250766.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951316569.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951318785.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951322043.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951399423.0 From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951402055.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408201.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408818.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 951412309.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 951412948.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 951413185.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415080.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951411739.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951441093.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951466927.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951467262.0 From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951550578.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579519.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579892.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951561895.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586860.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586103.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589407.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589601.0 From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951591041.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951592056.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951602282.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951679424.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951694397.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ 951694532.0 From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951696225.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951730499.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755320.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758614.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758861.0 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951762903.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 951757210.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951771315.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783606.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783787.0 From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951789993.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951797384.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951807678.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951826343.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951833434.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951836787.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951848616.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951849462.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755859.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951853677.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951880369.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951895046.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949392942.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949393719.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949413098.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414271.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414688.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949437665.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949447935.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949463831.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949461904.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949462343.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467091.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467480.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467550.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467781.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949468786.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949469011.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949478802.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949499793.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501390.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501447.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501463.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501777.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504735.0 From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504882.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949510751.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949513201.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949514661.0 From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949520183.0 From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949522475.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949533102.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535186.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535708.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949537509.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949538044.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949584528.0 From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949621036.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623245.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623846.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624084.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624744.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949626283.0 From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949627621.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949628789.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633681.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633814.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949647569.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667114.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667272.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949669754.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949679818.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949683546.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949685485.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949694268.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949698440.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949700585.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949708370.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949710400.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949714072.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949715119.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949716277.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949719172.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949735851.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949761157.0 From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949771570.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949773509.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949791463.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949797448.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949800772.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949805320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949812705.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949819667.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949847021.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949851568.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857833.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857906.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949858170.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949867006.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949881960.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949891006.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949930706.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949937125.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939751.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939262.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939258.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939261.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939259.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939256.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939376.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949941732.0 From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949943701.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949955899.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949956321.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949961450.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949962267.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949965411.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969874.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969498.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984450.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984855.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949985331.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949974417.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949973750.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977068.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977809.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949979438.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949980858.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989123.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989702.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949990519.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950003571.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950005896.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950013073.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950015287.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950022174.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950025237.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026026.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026143.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950019803.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950032148.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950046778.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048553.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048988.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950058942.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060297.0 From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060583.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950063522.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950070234.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950071412.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950072185.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950073556.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950074214.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950106113.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950107350.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950110195.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950112292.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950114795.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950116095.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950126462.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950127665.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137166.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137897.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137626.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950139100.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950144976.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950164265.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950159686.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949934305.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186429.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186194.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950195500.0 From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950242508.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950243460.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950247521.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950278244.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950277987.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950282918.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950290190.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291145.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950295975.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291825.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950333728.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950337676.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950364110.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365689.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365812.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950368468.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950426138.0 From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950472142.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950530887.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950543710.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950576997.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950566719.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950584051.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950594160.0 From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950632319.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950634775.0 From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950644108.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950626322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950646747.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950657017.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950680063.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950695571.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950723053.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950750834.0 From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950752150.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950759344.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950800529.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950811323.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950845326.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950886351.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950883455.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950891474.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950899080.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950900568.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950901771.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950909368.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950921942.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950922167.0 From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950928549.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930413.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950910007.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950944664.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950968049.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950970398.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950971268.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950972247.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950974160.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950975188.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951003447.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951002080.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951001771.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951021382.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951056417.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951060784.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10718 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951070460.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951071343.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951081167.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095083.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095870.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951115076.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951141441.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951146820.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951149559.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154133.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154254.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951166537.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951167293.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951171299.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951181254.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951189320.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951190086.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951232670.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951250766.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951316569.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951318785.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951322043.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951399423.0 From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951402055.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408201.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408818.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 951412309.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 951412948.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 951413185.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415080.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951411739.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951441093.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951466927.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951467262.0 From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951550578.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579519.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579892.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951561895.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586860.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586103.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589407.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589601.0 From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951591041.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951592056.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951602282.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951679424.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951694397.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ 951694532.0 From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951696225.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951730499.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755320.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758614.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758861.0 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951762903.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 951757210.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951771315.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 28 15:24:31 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 17:55:49 -0400 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate References: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: From: Tom Sutherland Guy ... Excuse my being a bit late but my computer has been in the shop. I can shed a bit of light on this subject in that my boat (#412) came to me with an inspection hatch in the cockpit floor. I believe it was by Bomar. It was Poly Carbonate and had two latches which would dog it down and remain flush. It was low profile, didn't look too bad, and about the right size. The problem was ... it leaked like a SIEVE! The lid portion had warped over time and would not seal down very well. My first thought was to buy another just like it and only use the lid portion, which was the portion which was warped. This would obviate the need to replace the frame and should be an easy fix at least for the short run. Well to make along story a bit longer ... West or Boat/US no longer had this model and the closest thing was a bit smaller which negated my being able to use my existing cut out . Out of frustration I called Bomar to see if they had anything either the same size or a bit larger and they did not. However They enlightened me to the following: 1) The Poly Carbonate inspection hatch was NOT intended to be placed in a cockpit floor. It would NOT be water tight in this application. 2) The Cast Aluminum was far better for my given purpose. 3) Hamilton Marine of Maine probably had the best selection. I believe I am going to bite the bullet and spring for the Cast Alum in a powder coat white. I may have to pull my engine and I think this would be the time for the project. I plan to go with their Model.No. Bom-C4T1416-W which calls for a cut out of 15 5/8" X 17 5/8". which would require me to open up my current opening a little bit. I might also add that the current hatch has not weakened the integrity of my cockpit floor in any way that I can see. I feel that the cast alum will be just fine with the slightly larger opening ... sorry for the length of my post. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Guy Lalonde wrote: > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951780263/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -421121051.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783606.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783787.0 From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951789993.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951797384.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951807678.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951826343.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951833434.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951836787.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951848616.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951849462.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755859.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951853677.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951880369.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951895046.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949392942.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949393719.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949413098.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414271.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414688.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949437665.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949447935.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949463831.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949461904.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949462343.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467091.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467480.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467550.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467781.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949468786.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949469011.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949478802.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949499793.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501390.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501447.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501463.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501777.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504735.0 From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504882.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949510751.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949513201.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949514661.0 From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949520183.0 From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949522475.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949533102.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535186.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535708.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949537509.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949538044.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949584528.0 From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949621036.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623245.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623846.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624084.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624744.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949626283.0 From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949627621.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949628789.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633681.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633814.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949647569.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667114.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667272.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949669754.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949679818.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949683546.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949685485.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949694268.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949698440.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949700585.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949708370.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949710400.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949714072.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949715119.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949716277.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949719172.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949735851.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949761157.0 From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949771570.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949773509.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949791463.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949797448.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949800772.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949805320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949812705.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949819667.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949847021.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949851568.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857833.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857906.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949858170.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949867006.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949881960.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949891006.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949930706.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949937125.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939751.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939262.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939258.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939261.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939259.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939256.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939376.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949941732.0 From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949943701.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949955899.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949956321.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949961450.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949962267.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949965411.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969874.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969498.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984450.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984855.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949985331.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949974417.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949973750.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977068.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977809.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949979438.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949980858.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989123.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989702.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949990519.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950003571.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950005896.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950013073.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950015287.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950022174.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950025237.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026026.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026143.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950019803.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950032148.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950046778.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048553.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048988.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950058942.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060297.0 From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060583.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950063522.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950070234.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950071412.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950072185.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950073556.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950074214.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950106113.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950107350.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950110195.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950112292.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950114795.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950116095.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950126462.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950127665.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137166.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137897.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137626.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950139100.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950144976.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950164265.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950159686.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949934305.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186429.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186194.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950195500.0 From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950242508.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950243460.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950247521.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950278244.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950277987.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950282918.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950290190.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291145.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950295975.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291825.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950333728.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950337676.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950364110.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365689.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365812.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950368468.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950426138.0 From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950472142.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950530887.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950543710.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950576997.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950566719.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950584051.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950594160.0 From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950632319.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950634775.0 From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950644108.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950626322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950646747.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950657017.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950680063.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950695571.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950723053.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950750834.0 From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950752150.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950759344.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950800529.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950811323.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950845326.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950886351.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950883455.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950891474.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950899080.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950900568.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950901771.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950909368.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950921942.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950922167.0 From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950928549.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930413.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950910007.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950944664.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950968049.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950970398.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950971268.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950972247.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950974160.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950975188.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951003447.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951002080.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951001771.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951021382.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951056417.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951060784.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10718 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951070460.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951071343.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951081167.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095083.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095870.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951115076.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951141441.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951146820.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951149559.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154133.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154254.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951166537.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951167293.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951171299.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951181254.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951189320.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951190086.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951232670.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951250766.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951316569.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951318785.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951322043.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951399423.0 From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951402055.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408201.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408818.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 951412309.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 951412948.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 951413185.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415080.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951411739.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951441093.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951466927.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951467262.0 From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951550578.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579519.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579892.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951561895.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586860.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586103.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589407.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589601.0 From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951591041.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951592056.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951602282.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951679424.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951694397.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ 951694532.0 From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951696225.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951730499.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755320.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758614.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758861.0 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951762903.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 951757210.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951771315.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 28 15:24:31 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 17:55:49 -0400 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate References: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: From: Tom Sutherland Guy ... Excuse my being a bit late but my computer has been in the shop. I can shed a bit of light on this subject in that my boat (#412) came to me with an inspection hatch in the cockpit floor. I believe it was by Bomar. It was Poly Carbonate and had two latches which would dog it down and remain flush. It was low profile, didn't look too bad, and about the right size. The problem was ... it leaked like a SIEVE! The lid portion had warped over time and would not seal down very well. My first thought was to buy another just like it and only use the lid portion, which was the portion which was warped. This would obviate the need to replace the frame and should be an easy fix at least for the short run. Well to make along story a bit longer ... West or Boat/US no longer had this model and the closest thing was a bit smaller which negated my being able to use my existing cut out . Out of frustration I called Bomar to see if they had anything either the same size or a bit larger and they did not. However They enlightened me to the following: 1) The Poly Carbonate inspection hatch was NOT intended to be placed in a cockpit floor. It would NOT be water tight in this application. 2) The Cast Aluminum was far better for my given purpose. 3) Hamilton Marine of Maine probably had the best selection. I believe I am going to bite the bullet and spring for the Cast Alum in a powder coat white. I may have to pull my engine and I think this would be the time for the project. I plan to go with their Model.No. Bom-C4T1416-W which calls for a cut out of 15 5/8" X 17 5/8". which would require me to open up my current opening a little bit. I might also add that the current hatch has not weakened the integrity of my cockpit floor in any way that I can see. I feel that the cast alum will be just fine with the slightly larger opening ... sorry for the length of my post. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Guy Lalonde wrote: > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951780263/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -421121051.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783606.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783787.0 From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951789993.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951797384.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951807678.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951826343.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951833434.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951836787.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951848616.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951849462.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755859.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951853677.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951880369.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951895046.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949392942.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949393719.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949413098.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414271.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414688.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949437665.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949447935.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949463831.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949461904.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949462343.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467091.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467480.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467550.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467781.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949468786.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949469011.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949478802.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949499793.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501390.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501447.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501463.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501777.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504735.0 From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504882.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949510751.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949513201.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949514661.0 From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949520183.0 From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949522475.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949533102.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535186.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535708.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949537509.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949538044.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949584528.0 From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949621036.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623245.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623846.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624084.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624744.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949626283.0 From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949627621.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949628789.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633681.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633814.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949647569.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667114.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667272.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949669754.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949679818.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949683546.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949685485.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949694268.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949698440.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949700585.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949708370.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949710400.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949714072.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949715119.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949716277.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949719172.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949735851.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949761157.0 From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949771570.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949773509.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949791463.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949797448.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949800772.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949805320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949812705.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949819667.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949847021.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949851568.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857833.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857906.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949858170.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949867006.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949881960.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949891006.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949930706.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949937125.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939751.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939262.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939258.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939261.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939259.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939256.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939376.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949941732.0 From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949943701.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949955899.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949956321.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949961450.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949962267.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949965411.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969874.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969498.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984450.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984855.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949985331.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949974417.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949973750.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977068.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977809.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949979438.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949980858.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989123.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989702.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949990519.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950003571.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950005896.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950013073.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950015287.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950022174.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950025237.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026026.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026143.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950019803.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950032148.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950046778.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048553.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048988.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950058942.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060297.0 From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060583.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950063522.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950070234.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950071412.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950072185.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950073556.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950074214.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950106113.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950107350.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950110195.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950112292.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950114795.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950116095.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950126462.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950127665.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137166.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137897.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137626.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950139100.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950144976.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950164265.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950159686.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949934305.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186429.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186194.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950195500.0 From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950242508.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950243460.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950247521.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950278244.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950277987.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950282918.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950290190.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291145.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950295975.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291825.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950333728.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950337676.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950364110.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365689.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365812.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950368468.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950426138.0 From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950472142.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950530887.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950543710.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950576997.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950566719.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950584051.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950594160.0 From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950632319.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950634775.0 From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950644108.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950626322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950646747.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950657017.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950680063.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950695571.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950723053.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950750834.0 From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950752150.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950759344.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950800529.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950811323.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950845326.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950886351.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950883455.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950891474.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950899080.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950900568.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950901771.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950909368.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950921942.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950922167.0 From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950928549.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930413.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950910007.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950944664.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950968049.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950970398.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950971268.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950972247.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950974160.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950975188.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951003447.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951002080.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951001771.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951021382.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951056417.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951060784.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10718 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951070460.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951071343.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951081167.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095083.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095870.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951115076.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951141441.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951146820.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951149559.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154133.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154254.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951166537.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951167293.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951171299.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951181254.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951189320.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951190086.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951232670.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951250766.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951316569.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951318785.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951322043.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951399423.0 From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951402055.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408201.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408818.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 951412309.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 951412948.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 951413185.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415080.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951411739.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951441093.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951466927.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951467262.0 From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951550578.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579519.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579892.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951561895.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586860.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586103.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589407.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589601.0 From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951591041.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951592056.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951602282.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951679424.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951694397.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ 951694532.0 From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951696225.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951730499.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755320.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758614.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758861.0 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951762903.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 951757210.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951771315.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 28 15:24:31 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 17:55:49 -0400 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate References: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: From: Tom Sutherland Guy ... Excuse my being a bit late but my computer has been in the shop. I can shed a bit of light on this subject in that my boat (#412) came to me with an inspection hatch in the cockpit floor. I believe it was by Bomar. It was Poly Carbonate and had two latches which would dog it down and remain flush. It was low profile, didn't look too bad, and about the right size. The problem was ... it leaked like a SIEVE! The lid portion had warped over time and would not seal down very well. My first thought was to buy another just like it and only use the lid portion, which was the portion which was warped. This would obviate the need to replace the frame and should be an easy fix at least for the short run. Well to make along story a bit longer ... West or Boat/US no longer had this model and the closest thing was a bit smaller which negated my being able to use my existing cut out . Out of frustration I called Bomar to see if they had anything either the same size or a bit larger and they did not. However They enlightened me to the following: 1) The Poly Carbonate inspection hatch was NOT intended to be placed in a cockpit floor. It would NOT be water tight in this application. 2) The Cast Aluminum was far better for my given purpose. 3) Hamilton Marine of Maine probably had the best selection. I believe I am going to bite the bullet and spring for the Cast Alum in a powder coat white. I may have to pull my engine and I think this would be the time for the project. I plan to go with their Model.No. Bom-C4T1416-W which calls for a cut out of 15 5/8" X 17 5/8". which would require me to open up my current opening a little bit. I might also add that the current hatch has not weakened the integrity of my cockpit floor in any way that I can see. I feel that the cast alum will be just fine with the slightly larger opening ... sorry for the length of my post. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Guy Lalonde wrote: > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951780263/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -421121051.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783606.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783787.0 From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951789993.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951797384.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951807678.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951826343.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951833434.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951836787.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951848616.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951849462.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755859.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951853677.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951880369.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951895046.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:15:42 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:15:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <16.df4607.25c7f02e@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear David, Could you supply the info to join the Bristol and Pearson lists. That might be the way to go if I want a Pearson Commander or a Bristol Weekender 27. Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949392942.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 00:28:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:28:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <6c.1573dd0.25c7f337@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949393719.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 1 05:51:38 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:51:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <90.202c95.25c83eea@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The web page is at this URL: http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get the URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web site. Their URL: http://www.goodoldboat.com Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." Hope this helps. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949413098.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:11:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:11:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: <389EAC44@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Arial would be acceptable to me. It is kind of like the Ugly Duckling of a line of boats. One thing I am trying to figure out since I saw this boat from afar is whether it is a p30, a Wanderer, A coaster, or the 32. Or maybe the Ranger. It is longer that the 28 and Triton. Has a rounded cabin front and looks very boxy as a coach style. I will find out more this AM. Another acquaintance has the b24 for sale, which probably would go for 5k less the bottom job cost. But I would have to add a mainsale as the one on her is not in good enough condition for off-coast sailing. She has been as far south as Belize. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414271.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Feb 1 06:18:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:18:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389EB741@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" The Lists for a lot of boats, one designs and so on are at sailnet. www.sailnet.com Go to the site, select the icon community. Then choose email. It has a list of email discussion lists by boat. This isn't under the chat or forum icon btw... DaVid Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949414688.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 12:41:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:41:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review--other possibilities Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:58:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get > passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly > well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. Lee, what do you think of the Pearson Commander (Ariel hull, big cockpit)? How would you compare her with a B27 Weekender for construction, looks , handling, ergonomics? I want to settle on one boat, then look only for that. Paul, #23 Ashwagh >> Hi Paul, In truth, these two boats are very close, and you probably will be happy with either. they are both well built, and able sailors. The Bristol 27 is the better looking design, with a springier sheer, and slightly longer ends. One day, I was sailing with my friend on his Arial, and we were parralleling the course of a Bristol 27, which was towing a dinghy. Our speeds were equal, telling us that the Bristol 27 was the faster boat-no surprise, since she is longer, and has more sail. It was blowing about 14 kts that day. I totaly enjoyed Scott's letter about his electra. there is someone who enjoys his boat!! The trouble with electra's is they are hard to find! The 23 foot sea sprite that he mentions is another good one, and many more are available, and I see them for 2-3 grand commonly. This would be a good choice, Paul, if you are looking in that size range. As far as sailing characteristics go, though, there is a difference in feel of 23 vs. 27, and that is a personal decision as to what you are looking for. As far as saftey and capablity, the electra and the sea sprite will take anything the larger boats will. But after sailing my Alberg 22, and then the 30, I know the handling and speed are different, and it is up to you to decide what you want this new boat to do for you. Personaly, between the Arial and the Bristol 27,I would choose the Bristol. Fun to think about all this, though. I wish I could have one of each!! And a 29' Dragon, the former olympic keel boat!! hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949437665.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 1 14:01:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 1 Feb 2000 14:01:25 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... Message-ID: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstorrie at ostrucking.net Tue Feb 1 14:20:31 2000 From: cstorrie at ostrucking.net (Charles L. Storrie, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... References: <20000201220125.15779.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00f001bf6d02$8e0026c0$3601010a@STORRIE> From: "Charles L. Storrie, Jr." The Kittiwake is indeed an Alberg design. It was built by Kenner and made in two configurations, a daysailer and a weekender ----- Original Message ----- From: blancs at us.net To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: [alberg30] another nice smaller boat... From: blancs at us.net I remembered another beautiful smaller boat that might be worth including on the list of downsizing candidates, the Kittiwake. It was built (strangely enough) by a company in Arkansas called Kenner, I think. The one I saw had beautiful lines. It had fair room in the cockpit and a small but weekendable cabin. I'm certain it was an Alberg design, 24.5 feet or so. bigger than the Sea Sprite 23, but without any pretensions at being more than a weekender. Does anyone know anything about it? Anyway, it might be worth considering. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Tue Feb 1 15:32:15 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=246135466 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949447935.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 1 19:06:08 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:06:08 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg In-Reply-To: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zira at mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 19:57:11 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:57:11 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg References: <3.0.3.32.20000201190608.01737374@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <3897AB17.D4EB0C0E@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - Well, then, how about the Cape Dory Typhoon? Mine even said "Alberg Typhoon, built by Cape Dory" on the builder's plate. Available as a "Weekender" and daysailer. Both have a good sized, self bailing cockpit. Lots of them around, some fairly cheap. I went from one of those to a 23-foot light weight, center board yawl, to the A30. If I was going back to a daysailer, and wasn't worried about trailering, I would (probably) get another Typhoon. My $0.02. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 p.s. Still looking for help getting spreaders fabricated, if anyone has any info. dls Robert Kirk wrote: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself what this list is about. > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949463831.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:25:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:25:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Thanks for all the help, Sanders. In a message dated 2/1/00 8:52:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/1/00 2:37:54 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > << Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper > (better?) > cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender >> > > I don't know the Commander so I can't be of much help with comparisons. The > > B27's cockpit seems plenty deep to me, for what it's worth. > > There is a link to the Bristol email list from the Bristol web page. The > web > page is at this URL: > > http://hometown.aol.com/bristolyht/index.html > > Look for the button toward the bottom of the page that says "Sailnet's > Bristol mailing list." The page has all sorts of other resources as well, > including maintenance tips for Atomic 4s and lists of owners of the various > Bristol models who are willing to answer questions about their Bristols. > > For information on the Pearson list -- also a Sailnet list -- you can get > the > URL from the contacts section maintained at Good Old Boat magazine's web > site. Their URL: > > http://www.goodoldboat.com > > Go to the P section of the contacts listing and look (in alphabetical order, > > between Electra and Ensign) "Pearson email discussion group." > > Hope this helps. > > Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949461904.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 19:32:23 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:32:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Message-ID: <79.11e9a92.25c8ff47@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 7:18:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: > I thought I'd mention the name Alberg just to remind myself > what this list is about. > > > Not that I have anything against small traditional day cruisers. > Wrong word to choose to make the point I think you want to make. The word 'Alberg' has come up continually in the thread on small traditional cruisers because he designed so many of them. Which was my point in beginning that thread. The word you're looking for is 'thirty'. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949462343.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:51:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <26.1560ba4.25c911d3@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, still looking? See if you can find an Arial, or Pearson commander. The Commander is the same hull, a little more ballast, has a big, daysailor cockpit, and is a stiff, seaworthy sailor with a good turn of speed. Both of them sleep 4 people. The Arial has a little more room below, and a smaller cockpit. Length 25'&7" or a 26, it you will. Both had a well astern for an outboard. A 6 hp moves the boat right along, about 5.5 to 6 K. If you can find a good buy, it''s a great boat. Alberg design too, both built by Pearson, and good quality indeed. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467091.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:58:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails adjusted properly. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467480.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 20:59:10 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <6.19b718c.25c9139e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com And they were built in Oakvile Canada. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467550.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:03:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:03:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Ton, the original CD 25 appears to be a slightly streached Sea Sprite hull, and a flat rip off of Albergs design. You will note that no designer takes credit for that boat, on the records. Very cramped fo its hull length. 7" shorter than an Arial, and half the room below, and doesn't sail as fast either. A friend of mine had one. MHO Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949467781.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:19:46 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:19:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill, I'm sorry, I can't remember the aurhors name...I do remember that it all started in Maine. It was a friendship sloop, sailed before WW II, and after. I read the book in the winter of '71-72, and charmed me. I would say it was written in the late '40's to early 60's, if that helps any. If I remember , he took the boat south all along the east coast, and later, north again. If memory serves, it was about 26 ft. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949468786.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 1 21:23:31 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:23:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <39.b9228b.25c91953@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. Built around the late 60's. Also a Kittywake....a 24 footer..shallow draft, outboard in a well, full keel, and quality construction Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949469011.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 00:06:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 03:06:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <9.194a163.25c93f92@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, regarding Lee's comment about the Arial dog house being too high. I found that appeared so because Pearson chinced on the coamings, making them very low. I made new ones from mahogony, but about 3 inches higher. Viola, everything seemed in better porportions, and the dog house appeared lower, and the boat sleeker. Also, there was a little more protection in the cockpit. Want to talk about a high dog house. Look at the old Chris Craft 26 ( a sail boat) Not a bad boat if yu can find one in good condition. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949478802.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Feb 2 05:56:33 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dsail at gte.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] princess Message-ID: <000202085633HM.25367@webd4.iname.net> From: dsail at gte.net bill, the complete title of the book russ was referring to about the friendship sloop is "princess new york a mans affair with a boat". the author is joe richards. i told russ that it was the book that got me hooked with the idea of sailing in the first place dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949499793.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:23:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A95F5@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Then from what I saw, it is the Arial. And I understand your point about the relation ship tot he coamings, the cabin, and even the who view of that to the vessels freeboard. ALso at this basin is a Marina auctioning a chrysler 20 by the way. I don't know much about them though, as you suspected. Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501390.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:07 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A97FD@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501447.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:24:23 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:24:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review excuse the misassociation - Chrysler in previous post - eom Message-ID: <389A98BE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Excuse...I associated (misassociated) names. Chris Craft. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501463.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Feb 2 06:29:37 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <389AA07D@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ... I have found one. Problem is: 1. No sails, The rigging is standing. Full of water, no motor, interior needs refinishing totally but it floats. Question is: How much will it cost to get it to sailing condition. Minimum bid is 500, which I am thinking about making. I am still deliberating on the A30. I am still deliberating on what it will actually cost to put the a30 back to shape and make a bid. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949501777.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 2 07:18:55 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:18:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap in. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504735.0 From blancs at us.net Wed Feb 2 07:21:22 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 2 Feb 2000 07:21:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <20000202152122.13452.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I just tied the tiller to one side (securely!). There was enough room. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 on Wed, 02 February 2000, "Bob Lincoln" wrote: > > > From: > "Bob Lincoln" >

> > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the
> prop, or is there enough clearance as is?? I have room
> enough to drop it.? Any comments appreciated before I leap
> in.
> Bob Lincoln
> Indigo #590
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949504882.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 2 08:59:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> Message-ID: <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says a lot (try that ,J24) Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949510751.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 2 09:40:01 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hey There - I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly 30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. Gord #426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled > daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics > or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. > Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, > but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing > keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > > May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful > lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may > say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the > Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller > boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with > longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those > categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are > more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says > a lot (try that ,J24) > > Michael > #220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949513201.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Feb 2 10:04:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:04:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <001c01bf6da7$ee819920$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Having a full keel does not necesarily preclude sailing performance! Granted, some full keel boats are slow, deathly slow, but others are excellent performers, and not just in heavy air. Plus, the full keelprovides an excellent sailing feel and good tracking ability, something narrow foil fin keel/spade rudder boats generally lack. Perhaps less spirited than dinghy-like fin keel boats, but rewarding and fun to sail. I'll take my Ensign anyday over a J/24--I've sailed both extensively. The J may be somewhat faster upwind, and definitely faster downwind, but the Ensign is much nicer to sail--and certainly no slouch. I have sailed around J's before in the Ensign. I look forward to enjoying similar sailing characteristics on my Triton when I have finished her renovation. Amazingly, the J/24 has been around for nearly 25 years--I think the home-built prototype was built in 1976, and went into production in 1977. They are great boats--for racing. Not as comfortable for daysailing, and not set up for one or two people to sail as easily as, say, an Ensign or Commander. The J/24 has become a classic of sorts in its own right, but for reasons other than enduring lines or beautiful design. That's why people want full keel boats--daysailers or not--there is an aesthetic quality that cannot be matched. A boat should make her owner swell with price when he looks at her. Does a J/24or (dare I say it) Hunter do that? I think not. There are other boats the same size or smaller than the Alberg 30 or Triton that in many ways may be more suitable for cruising or living aboard. Old, CCA-influenced designs, while beautiful, are narrow with short waterlines--lacking in the two most important dimensions needed for large interiors. Newer designs may not be as well built, or handle loads as well, or be particularly attractive, but they do offer huge amounts of room for their size--usually because of short overhangs and wide beams. I chose the older designs for their aesthetic qualities (long overhangs, sweet sheerlines) and rugged construction, as well as proven ability to be seakindly and safe, knowing that I would give up interior volume in the process. Plus the valid concern of initial cost! Just another opinion to add to the mix, but I think this might be the wrong forum to suggest that there is not a place for traditional full-keeled day boats! Tim Lackey Triton # 381, Glissando -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:07 Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering > >May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some may >say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used are >more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively says >a lot (try that ,J24) > >Michael >#220 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949514661.0 From afpadc at afprinters.com Wed Feb 2 11:36:23 2000 From: afpadc at afprinters.com (Arthur D. Chotin) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <38988736.2A289DF1@afprinters.com> From: "Arthur D. Chotin" I couldn't agree more about the virtues of the Sea Sprite 23. We owned the cruising model until we got our A30. We day sailed in it, cruised in it and participated successfully in a number of races against larger boats which did not know they were being raced against :). It is comfortable in the cockpit, adequate below, incredibly steady, and had the dryest bilge I ever saw. Only once in three years did we need to pump out because of unintentional water. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Paul, see if there any Alberg Sea Sprites available. Same size as the > Ensign, with the most beautiful sheer you've ever seen. The day sailor has a > big cockpit like the ensign, but there is a cruising model, sleeps 4 with a > self bailing cockpit. I owned the daysailor model for 8 years. A lovely > boat. All halyards lead to the cabin top, and it's easy to single hand. Back > in the 1970's a young man singlehanded one to England, with no self steering > gear. It will sail along for long periods with the helm ties and sails > adjusted properly. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Arthur D. Chotin President American Financial Printers 1700 K Street, NW Washington, DC 20006 (202) 457-0030 Fax: (202) 457-0147 email: afpadc at afprinters.com http:www.afprinters.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949520183.0 From doug at recorder.ca Wed Feb 2 12:14:35 2000 From: doug at recorder.ca (Douglas Wight) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:14:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf6dba$20d8ffa0$e09ed0d8@sailor> From: "Douglas Wight" Bob: There is no problem at all,when you swing the rudder off to 90 degrees you can pull the prop straight off, and install your new one or whatever. Regards, Doug Wight, ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Sent: 2-Feb-00 10:18 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949522475.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:11:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:11:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/1/00 6:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov writes: << 18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! >> My two cents; when you start going below 23 feet or so in a traditional full keel design, such as the 19 foot CD Typhoon, you get a boat that is seaworthy and capable, but performance is really hurt. the bow is proportionaly bluffer, and small chop stops her more easily, and the fluid flow and glide of a larger, proportionaly longer hull is lost. If you are downsizing, but still want a certain feel to the boat, there is a point at which the boat is too small. I have seen a couple of Kittiwakes, though I have never sailed one, or spoken to the owners. But they are very pretty. they fall into Alberg's finer design category; I can group Albergs designs into the sllightly rounder, bluffer bowed and sterned models, such as Triton, CD 25, Seasprite, Alberg 35, the 19 foot Corinthian, and Typhoon, and the finer hulls, with sharper entries, and finer waterlines, such as the Alberg 22, the Kittiwake, and the Alberg 30. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they are different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are looking for different things from their boats. Would you guys agree? Lee Stargazer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949533102.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:46:26 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 12:24:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Saunders, another boat, the original, full keel South Coast 22, an Alberg design.. No frills, and I have no idea of athe quality, but might be a good cheapie is you find one. >> Another two cents; I've seen a few South Coast 22's. The lines are typical Alberg, very similar to the SeaSprite. The hulls can be deflected a little easier than the other early 60's boats we've been discussing, and many were sold as kits, so building quality and longevity in ones you see today will vary wildly. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535186.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 2 15:55:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:55:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good Old Boats A30 Aritcle Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Boy we have talented people in this organization!!! the Sousa's did a great job on their article, and their boat!!! Sousas-a question if you don't mind; any chance you have a parts list and parts sources and prices for the parts of the stern tube, cutlass bearing and associated retainng fittings, and stuffing box assembly you replaced on Carina Vela? thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949535708.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:25:09 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:25:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... In-Reply-To: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB029A99A5@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <200002021925090220.00703BAD@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Goldeneye? Looks like a Typhoon to me. 18'6", 3" draft, etc. great boat, but you have to (at least me) wiggle out of the quarter berth, turn over, and wiggle back in. tight fit!! APK *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/1/2000 at 6:32 PM Forhan, Thomas wrote: >From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > >18 feet Cape DoryGoldeneye with the right feel, and its a transatlantic >veteran! Check this out, its soudns great! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > >&item=246135466 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949537509.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Feb 2 16:34:04 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:34:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser In-Reply-To: <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> References: <5a.d46051.25c91485@aol.com> <006201bf6d9f$8f907560$3b6df0d8@intercom.net> <002001bf6da4$891b6000$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <200002021934040580.00786755@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" The Folkboat (with sumptous Seat) is a hellava boat. Wish I could have afforded one, but sailed on a friends a lot. Regarding full keel daysailors... I would be sailing my Typhoon with a single reef and working jib and having a yahoo time, when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. If I could lose 50 lbs , I'd buy a Typhoon and sail it in about anything. I just won't fit in that boat anymore, so I have an A30. Alan Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/2/2000 at 12:40 PM Gord Laco wrote: >From: "Gord Laco" > >Hey There - > >I beg to differ! Having raced and cruised a Danish-built Folkboat nearly >30,000 miles before buying my Alberg 30 #426 this year, I'd say that there >are many advantages to a full keel in a boat under 26'. I feel that if >people only knew that they did not have to put up with the horrible >characteristics that plague centre-board and fin keel boats - and have come >to be considered normal - they wouldn't be satisfied with their boats. I >changed boats to have more room for two growing sons - but for my wife and >I, "Touch Wood" F KC 16 was perfect, and I miss her. > >Her new owner is now in Florida heading for Panama. > >Gord >#426 "Surprise" On Georgian Bay >----- Original Message ----- >From: Michael Grosh >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser > > >> From: "Michael Grosh" >> >> I am having a problem understanding why anyone would want a full keeled >> daysailor. If one is interested in a 18-26' sailboat (either for economics >> or convenience) what you are going to get, like it or not, is a daysailor. >> Sure on some models you can camp out with a varying degree of discomfort, >> but mostly what you want is sailing performance, perhaps with a swing >> keel/centerboard arrangement for trailering >> >> May I suggest that the appeal of the Alberg 30 is (other than beautiful >> lines) it is the smallest practical size boat that can be cruised (some >may >> say lived) on. My own thinking is that the A30 is the optimal size for the >> Alberg style (although the A37 may take that title) If I wanted a smaller >> boat, I would go the J24 route(or equivalent); larger, a cutter rig with >> longer waterline and reduced water surface area. In neither of those >> categories can a vessel be had for $13-20,000 (I think J boats even used >are >> more than that). That 30 year old Albergs can still race competitively >says >> a lot (try that ,J24) >> >> Michael >> #220 >> >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click >Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949538044.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 3 05:28:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <10.8c064c.25ca13ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001bf6e4b$f388e1e0$0a6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >. I'm not saying one type is better than the other; they >are >different approaches, each with it's advantages, each for sailors who are >looking for different things from their boats. Would you >guys agree? Yes. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949584528.0 From johnbrugeman at ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 15:37:16 2000 From: johnbrugeman at ameritech.net (John Brugeman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question Message-ID: <000c01bf6e9f$9bae2580$aabeb3c7@ibmbna336a> From: "John Brugeman" Bob, We removed our prop and shaft last year to replace the bearing. Just turn you rudder hard to port or starboard and there is room. No need to remove the rudder. Capt. John Mermaid -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lincoln To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:19 AM Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question >From: "Bob Lincoln" > >Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the >prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room >enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap >in. >Bob Lincoln >Indigo #590 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949621036.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:14:05 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:14:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <73.f26966.25cb73cd@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I had a friend who had a Chrysler 20, he sold it and bought the original CD 25. The Chrysler is a bouncy, tippy boat compared to the CD Also, I had personal problems, like the tracks for the hatchboards. The channels were not finished, and had raw, sharp pointed, edges at the top, just waiting to take a bite out of your hide some time or other. When these unfinished things show, who knows where else they took a short cut. I want a boat that looks like the designer intended on sailing it> Just my opinion.Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623245.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 3 16:24:06 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:24:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is that a trick question? ;-) Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > in. > Bob Lincoln > Indigo #590 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949623846.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:28:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:28:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg Designed Arial Message-ID: <60.d5f6c1.25cb7714@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, qwned my Arial for 9 years, and I loved it. Her only drawback was not having a separate head. I installed a Sea Fairer (Thetford) with the metal hold down brackets. You can most propably buy used sails for about $ 1000. (headsail and main) until you get used to sailing her. I had a 155% genny made be Kent, a local sailmaker, abd loved it. I also had a working jib, which I rarely used. A used 6 hp Johnson will power her. and long shaft is the best, at about 6 K. If you can clean up the interior with fresh paint and Scrubbing, it sounds like a good deal. The bulkheads and much io the interior is covered in a teak looking formica. You might need new bunk cushions. You can buy foam and cut it with an electric knife. and how good can you sew, to do the covers. There is a place for a slide out stove. I hade some gimbals and used a 2 burner alchoal stove we used to cook omlets while doing long races Ther is a company in Annopolis, Bacon that has lots of used sails. You would love the way this boat sails. She weights 5500 pounds and has 2500 pounds of lead in her keel. Much stiffer than the A-30. Make that $500 offer, and even go a little higher, if you must. I dont think you will regreat it Let me know what happens. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624084.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 16:39:04 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:39:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949624744.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:43 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:04:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear A30240 at AOL.com, Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. With many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to put your answer in context without a reference. Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949626283.0 From A30240 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 17:27:01 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:27:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Paul It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. Jim In a message dated 2/3/00 20:14:41 Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Thanks, Paul In a message dated 1/31/00 7:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you > the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks > like a 5/6 scale model) > > Jim Davis >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949627621.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Thu Feb 3 17:46:29 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Bob, If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. When I removed the 3 blade this fall I cannot remember if I had to push the shaft into the coupling, I did not remove the rudder. Stephen Sousa Carina Vela #114 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Is that a trick question? ;-) > > Bob Lincoln wrote: > > > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > > > Is it necessary to remove the rudder in order to remove the > > prop, or is there enough clearance as is? I have room > > enough to drop it. Any comments appreciated before I leap > > in. > > Bob Lincoln > > Indigo #590 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949628789.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:08:01 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:08:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 7:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest > transatlantic boat was a little under 6", built by a school teacher, and > sailed (drifted) to england from the east coast. You couldn't get me into > one of those. There limits and someone is always trying to push them. > Russ Nice to know 6 inches will take you that far. Regards, Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633681.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 19:10:14 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:10:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <49.f6b74d.25cb9d16@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/3/00 8:42:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, A30240 at aol.com writes: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Paul > It was in reference to the CD25 recommendation. > > Jim Nice boat, but I wanted something with large open cockpit. Thanks anyway. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949633814.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 3 22:59:29 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:59:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <97.161f146.25cbd2d1@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. Sorry about the confusion. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949647569.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:25:14 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:25:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Princess Message-ID: <389AC528.EDBB979D@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Thanks guys, for the information on "Princess". Bill Newman Marion Rose, #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667114.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Fri Feb 4 04:27:52 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South Message-ID: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. Bill Newman Marion Rose #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949667272.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 4 05:09:14 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Young Bloods of the South References: <389AC5C7.F56693FA@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <389ACF78.EDFEA45B@idirect.com> From: John Birch Amen. J B Bill Newman wrote: > From: Bill Newman > > David, I believe we have all well and truly got the message. > > Bill Newman > Marion Rose #233 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949669754.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 4 07:56:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:56:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <389AF6AE.D475472E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear A30240 at AOL.com, > Please copy or make explicit reference to what you're seconding. > With > many threads that many people answer in many ways, it is impossible to > put > your answer in context without a reference. > Thanks, > Paul I would certainly agree with Paul on this one. I believe it is best to condense where you can but do make enough of a reference to the previous post for the rest of us to make the connection .... thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949679818.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 08:59:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:59:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <70.e9846c.25cb79a8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01bf6f31$3ecbfda0$9f6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >On the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam It may not be the same person you are thinking of, but he is a school teacher- also, this boat (Yankee Girl) actually sails. There are pictures and everything. He liked his ordeal so much, apparently he took the same boat and sailed across the Pacific-editor's note at the end of the book So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. I am proud to declare myself a fair weather sailor-hey, it's why I live on the Chesapeake Bay. That I can be that kind of seaman on an A30-well it's icing on the cake. Of course, my view may be influenced by my other life of presently punching tugboats through 6"+ pack ice ;-) Michael Checkmate #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949683546.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 09:31:25 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:31:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:47 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >So, having noted all that, being faced with such...derangement; I find >I must withdraw my observations about full keel daysailors. It's clear people >are going to sail what they perceive as fulfilling regardless of >considerations of practicality, performance, seaworthiness, etc. If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, and poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, and that sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, you would be mistaken. A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. She will be more seaworthy; she will cut through chop and have a more forgiving motion in a seaway, and will be less prone to knockdown and capsize. As for performance, that depends so much on the individual design, and the prevailing winds and seas, as to make a judgment difficult. The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may also perform better in light airs. She will have a higher moment of inertia, for example, to keep her moving through lulls. Depending on the hardness of her bilges, she may have less wetted surface, and offer less resistance through the water. Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than to a high-aspect fin keel -- will readily grasp the concept. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949685485.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:57:48 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:57:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <22.18f26b6.25cc893c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/2/00 7:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, apk2 at home.com writes: << when the finners et all would be afraid to come out. >> Them's fightin' words! :) Lee Stargazer, A30 #255 Bootlegger, Finn US 505, --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949694268.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Feb 4 13:07:20 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... References: <5a.f0aa84.25cc66ed@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601bf6f54$20f31200$596df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical and seaworthy, I am not implying that >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, I am implying that >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal 16-25' boat owner requires > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in light airs. I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of science to discuss it. >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if capsized. What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949698440.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 4 13:43:05 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:56 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: >My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor >is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important >than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel >on a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the >bow up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one >design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal >16-25' boat owner requires Actually, I think that a full-keeled boat does most of these things better than a fin-keeled one. A deep-draft fin-keel boat is tough to get on and off a trailer; will not take the ground with ease; cannot approach a shoaling shore for beaching. By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? I think you are right that we all approach these questions with the biases of our own experiences, and I recognize that there must be advantages to fin-keeled boats. My own biases lead me to consider most fin-keeled boats to present compromises I'd rather not make. You are right, full-keeled boats are certainly not speed demons -- but neither are fin-keeled monohulls. When I'm looking for an exhiliarating sail, you'll find me on board a catamaran. The Philistines will be on their Donzis. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949700585.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:52:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <15.eb0797.25ccc052@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 12:09:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << n the Subject ot "transAtlantic boats". If I recall the smallest >transatlantic boat was a little under 6", As it happens, I am now reading this guy's story (Alone Against the Atlantic, Gerry Spiess 1981, Control Data Publishing) 10' long with 5'6" beam >> Another good book is "Tinkerbelle", the story of Robert Manry. He was a newspaper editor, who in the late 50's decided to sail across the atlantic in a small boat. He had an old town clinker dinghy, 12 feet long or so, and he built a plywood deck and little cabin on her, and made the voyage. It's well written. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949708370.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 4 17:09:30 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 16:26:40 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:26:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 2:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > My mistake about the length of that small, dumpy sailboat that crossed the > Atlantic. More like drifted, I think it took him about 60 days.. It was six > > feet long. I've always wondered what he ate, and drank. > Sorry about the confusion. > Russ No confusion, really. I was just kidding you. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949710400.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Fri Feb 4 16:57:20 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:57:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: <009a01bf6f75$a8e68680$5a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <00e201bf6f73$f6498a00$310311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? JJ ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related From: "alberg30" Perhaps it would better serve the group if discussions of other boat types, their sailing merits, etc. were done off-line, through personal email, or through another OneList group. Just as extended discussions about the various boats for sale (alberg30 or not), their survey results, etc should also be discussed off line once the thread is initially addressed by the group. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:27:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:27:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Michael, The most valuable part of what you've said has to do with the individual nature of 'fulfillment'. Please remember that Sanders initial comments were made as a result of my asking for suggestions for a boat that would be a smaller, daysailing version of an Alberg 30. I do not want to trailer, or ground a boat on a beach and I don't care for speed and lightning manouvers so much as the occasional sensation of speed as well as a feeling of being 'well-footed' and balanced between wind and water. And exploring the different qualities silence aboard. Sanders has been most helpful in providing starting points and resources and to you for helping me to clarify where I am in the process. Thank you both. Regards, Paul In a message dated 2/4/00 4:20:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > >If by this you mean to imply that full-keeled daysailors are less practical > and seaworthy, > I am not implying that > > >poorer performers than their fin-keeled sisters, > I am implying that > > >sailors choose them solely for their "fulfilling" (aesthetic?) qualities, > My definition of fulfilling is... whatever floats your boat. > > >A full-keeled vessel will be more practical; she will be able to carry more > >weight and still maintain her trim and design waterline. > My argument is intended to address more of what the function of a daysailor > is...to me, weight carrying ability (again, in a daysailor)is less important > than enjoying the sail (i.e. performance). The ability to store a vessel on > a trailer, and to launch it on a mountain lake if so desired, drive the bow > up on a deserted island for a family picnic, and yes, to race as a one > design in a large class, strikes me as conforming more to what the nominal > 16-25' boat owner requires > > > The full-keeled daysailor will almost certainly perform better in higher > winds and seas; depending on the design, she may >also perform better in > light airs. > I see no basis for that statement-properly reefed, a small boat able to be > 'worked' through seas , well, the more responsive the rudder is, and the > lighter it is(for acceleration) the quicker it will be, and I haven't even > addressed planing potential. Physically demanding? Yes. Exhilarating? Yes. > Would I want to do it for extended periods of time? No. Park it at the end > of the day. That is what a daysailor is. As far as light air > performance...for many, many years marine architects have been besotted with > the notion of reduced wetted surface area/better light air performance. I > suspect there is more to it than that, but one has to fly in the face of > science to discuss it. > > >Anyone familiar with Ted Hood's centerboard hulls -- not full-keeled boats, > but closer in design to a modified full-keel than >to a high-aspect fin keel > The Hood designs I am familiar with are in the area of 50' club > cruiser/racers-middle of the range compromise boats(and yes, I know all > boats are compromises-I've got a back yard full of proofs :) I suppose if I > had $250,000-500,000 in a boat,I would want one that did everything as well > as possible. What I have as a daysailor is a 16' Chrysler Man of War (like a > Laser)- I can single hand it,and because it is high performance it gives an > immediate reward for proper handling-a good platform for kids to learn to > sail on, by the way. It won't sink if swamped, and can easily be righted if > capsized. > What I think of when I think of a good family daysailor? Flying Scot. > Back to the fulfilling thing-People fall in love with what they like-I > support their preferences. The Bay is full of 'character' boats-more often > than not, with characters on them. I just question the value of suggesting > to someone getting into sailing purchasing a vessel 1. at the lower end of > performance 2 limited in versatility(for it's size). > > Well, this ended up as a lot of verbiage for what is, after all, the Alberg > 30 list-a full keeler more than just a daysailor:-) > > Michael > Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949714072.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 17:45:19 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:45:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <34.1092a33.25ccdaaf@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > By these criteria, you'd be better-served by a Doughdish > or a 12 1/2, wouldn't you? Sanders, have you heard anything about the "Haven" which is a centerboard version of a 12-1/2 (Buzzard's Bay Boys Boat) by Herreshof. A felow named Joel White redrew it and you can get a new one in mahogonny on oak for $21k from 'The Landing School'. It has a nice heavy centerboard that runs about a third of the legnth, which is 16 feet. Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949715119.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 18:04:37 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:04:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net writes: > From: "John Johnson" > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > JJ Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949716277.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 4 18:52:52 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Prop & shaft question In-Reply-To: <389A2F74.E558D78D@net1plus.com> References: <000201bf6d90$d1bcc1f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> <389A1C22.D0E8A22D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: Joyce Sousa > >Bob, > >If you have a two blade prop, removal does not require rudder removal. Bob, A three bladed prop does not require rudder removal either, or playing with the shaft. When I switched back to the three bladed prop recently I began to think so. It looked as though the prop would not go on, but it did with the proper twist as you place it on the shaft. It's a little difficult to describe, but rotate the prop as you slide it on or off the shaft to clear the blade of the prop. (My three bladed prop is 12 inch diameter.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949719172.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 4 23:30:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 02:30:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com I just can't accept that a light fin keel boat is faster in a chop and breeze. I recall one 24 mile race with the winds realy strong in my Sea Sprite. We had a full main set, and the spinnacker too. I didn't have any means of measuring the wind speed, but we were hitting 10 knots surfing down the waves. The boat weighed 3300 pounds, and had 1500 lb of lead balast. We had a crew of 3. We won the race. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949735851.0 From johnnie5 at rose.net Sat Feb 5 06:32:37 2000 From: johnnie5 at rose.net (John Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related References: Message-ID: <005501bf6fe5$d9f6fe60$2d0311ac@maria> From: "John Johnson" Bye, no commercial mail lists, anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] topics should be Alberg30 related > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/4/00 8:01:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnnie5 at rose.net > writes: > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > Better served without the advertising tags on your emails, perhaps? > > > > JJ > Succint point, JJ. I know where you're coming from. But you've got to > realize that without the ads, we'd all have to pay for the Onelist service. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949761157.0 From dans at stmktg.com Sat Feb 5 09:26:10 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone on **that** list will get the replies. George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949771570.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:58:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:58:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <30.dd9dcf.25cdbec5@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:17 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: << With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted discussions in their own right. >> As I was the origin of one of these threads (my recommendation of Riddle of the Sands) and a substantial contributor to the second (suggestions to Paul regarding smaller vessels) I feel in large part responsible for your complaints. I prefaced my reply to Paul with the suggestion that we take the dialogue offlist if anyone found it offensive. No one rep[lied to that, and we've all continued the thread in public. I am sorry to have offended. I meant no harm. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949773509.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 5 11:49:41 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <004901bf7013$0d9f5aa0$426df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I apologize to all who feel the thread I contributed to has gone on too long-I thought there was relevancy to Albergs. It's not Georges place (although, as list owner he is entitled to take that job on if he wants ....) to police discussion areas- I have seen this happen in other lists and it gets real ugly real fast. I, personally, would prefer to talk only to other A30 owners-or, at least those genuinely interested in them. I would appreciate boat identifiers (perhaps under signatures?) from those posting. Maybe I won't get sucked in so easily to "nonrelevant" discussions. Anyway, I'm going back to (mostly) lurking. Michael Checkmate #220 P.S. Maybe my mail program makes it particularly easy, but it doesn't look real difficult to delete entire threads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 14:57:43 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:57:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted >discussions in their own right. >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone >on **that** list will get the replies. >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. Ohyyy If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my opinion. How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and delete it? For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is obviously impractical. >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel boats, etc. Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is interesting/usable by the member. This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is consulted. Don't mean to step on any toes here, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949791463.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Feb 5 15:02:47 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <389CAC17.D9A36EEC@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist Alberg30 main page: "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these classic sailing vessels." Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. I've enjoyed the posts. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Grosh" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:49:41 -0500 Size: 4994 URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 5 15:59:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <96.b55fa5.25ce04e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <389CB95A.359F8F0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are great boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little kind. I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may never have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that may be made. Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > >discussions in their own right. > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > Ohyyy > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list site > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > opinion. > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, and > delete it? > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > obviously impractical. > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is obvious > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty keel > boats, etc. > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a glance > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > interesting/usable by the member. > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, please > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > consulted. > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Sat Feb 5 16:37:28 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:37:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: <200002060038.TAA14792@oh.verio.com> From: "Joseph Palmer" ---------- >From: "T. K. Blanc" >To: alberg30 at onelist.com >Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] >Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2000, 6:02 PM > > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > Here's the official concern of the A30 list, right off the Onelist > Alberg30 main page: > > "Discussions related to Alberg 30 sailboats, Carl Alberg, and related > matters. This mailing list is open to all with an interest in these > classic sailing vessels." > > Perhaps what we should do is be more careful with our subject lines. > I've enjoyed the posts. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949797448.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 17:32:52 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:32:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <9.1bcca26.25ce2944@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Since I started one of the offending threads with my open question about smaller keelboats, I guess I should also weigh in (before going back to "mostly lurking" myself). As you might have guessed, I tend towards Lee's and Kevin's and John's view: that the POV or perspective or level of interest differs for each person to the point where narrowly defining the list cannot work. Certainly, if challenged, a person who starts a thread should be able to defend the connection, at least from his own point of view. For me, the connection of smaller traditional keel boats of similar design was in 1) the large number of successful ones that were actually designed by Carl Alberg and 2)the possible need of others among the ageing (unfortunate, but undeniably true!) population of A 30 owners who, like myself, may need to continue their enjoyment of this sport in a smaller version of an 'Alberg'. I also know that I have deleted whole threads myself, either because I already know more than I ever wanted to about that topic, or I find the topic intrinsically boring (ie. detailed discussions of varnish application being second only to waiting for the clothes dryer to stop). But I would never challenge the right of those who relish these things to post them. I will certainly need their advice one day. I have even been bored enough at times to question whether I want to continue as part of the A30 family (just as I've questioned whether I want to continue being a part of mylast word somewhat disfunctional extended family). But here I am mais ami, n'e ce pas? And the most boring thread of all? A list that degenerates to a discussion of itself as opposed to its topic! Regards, Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/5/00 7:01:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > From: John Birch > > I agree Lee, we have a delete button for exactly this purpose. Albergs are > great > boats and their owners disproportionately nice people - let us be a little > kind. > > I learn things, sometimes in the darndest places, and from people who may > never > have anticipated the impact their story will have or the extrapolations that > may > be made. > > Cheers, maybe we are all suffering a little cabin fever ; ) > > John Birch, > Sunstone KC-65 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > > > In a message dated 2/5/00 12:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes > > > > >With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > >A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > >limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > >Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > >some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > >discussions in their own right. > > > > >Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > >purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > >on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > >George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > >this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > Ohyyy > > > > If this 'problem' of non A30, but nautical topics appearing on our list > site > > is being put to an informal referendum, then I feel obligated to state my > > opinion. > > > > How long does it take to glance at an entry, see it doesn't interest you, > and > > delete it? > > > > For those it does interest, these threads are a way to communicate with > > sailors who have common interests, and while away some winter down time. > > > > For the interested parties to set up a seperate list for each thread, is > > obviously impractical. > > > > >From the numbers of people on the list who are participating, it is > obvious > > that there is interest in these topics, be they good books, other pretty > keel > > boats, etc. > > > > Sailing is such a large world, it is not surprising that we have interests > > beside our beautiful Alberg 30's. > > > > Alot of information put on the list in these 'extraneous' topics may be > > applicable to our Alberg 30 in terms of maintainance tips, sailing > > performance tips, etc, so a bit of serendipity may be seen. Again, a > glance > > over the submission is all it takes to see if the information is > > interesting/usable by the member. > > > > This entry is too long already, but I hope you see my point. George, > please > > do not do anything rash before the general membership of the list is > > consulted. > > > > Don't mean to step on any toes here, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949800772.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 18:48:40 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 18:48:40 PST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <20000206024840.6219.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" To you guys working on your toe rails: I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about every six inches. Worked like a charm. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949805320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 20:51:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:51:45 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com ...... and related matters........ One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be an 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a fair compromise to be struck. Whadayathink mates? Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949812705.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 5 22:47:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:47:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] General information Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com This is for Lee. John. Paul, David, and all others/ I might note, in passing, that there were 5 messages concerning useing the list for general discussions of boats. I Also note that the list proportes to talk about "Carl Alberg", among other things. Surely, discussing the traits and advanteges of his designes fall into that catagory . In order to work any list like this involves the free exchange of ideas, even if the all aren't exacty on point every secomd. Let us all not get anal about this Russ Ca Va # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949819667.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 06:23:41 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:23:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] Heres a great smaller boat... Message-ID: <48.141182f.25cedded@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/4/00 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: << Now if I could find something like it around 21-25 in fiberglass..., then I could fulfuill one other mission in life that i can't do with a Bristol 27' Weekender...(to retire and gunkhole Barnegat Bay). But I do prefer a keelboat overall. Paul >> Paul, you are describing the Alberg 22, or the Sea Sprite here. I think that is what you want. A South Coast 23 in good shape, or a Kittiwake will do as well. It's only a matter of which you find first in the condition you want, and for the price you are looking to spend. Hit Soundings and the various websites. By-The-Sea is a great place- the University of Rhode Island has a boat donation program, and I've seen some great deals there. they have had a couple of Rhodes Meridians, a 25 foot fbgls boat of the early 60's, built in Holland, sold here by Seafarer back then, for under 5 grand. that is a nice boat, too. Hope this helps, Lee http://by-the-sea.com/ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949847021.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sun Feb 6 07:39:28 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] References: <8.e464e6.25ce57e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401bf70b8$a5fd5680$286df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic environment. Good job. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949851568.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:23:53 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:23:53 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 11:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, FINNUS505 at aol.com writes: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > ...... and related > matters........ > > One more thought; just to be a further help to those who wish to spend less > time on line sorting email they may not be interested in, perhaps we should > be more specific in the subject on our postings. If the subject can be > depended on to reflect the actual content of our letter, and not simply be > an > 're;response', unless that is actualy accurate, then maybe that will be a > fair compromise to be struck. > Whadayathink mates? Sounds good to me, Lee, but we have to also deal with "topic drift" vs "recognizability of thread". For example, I could have called this "Re: subject headers", but would others have recognized it as a continuation of the original subject, especially if they had missed your new 'tack' in the subject matter? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857833.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:25:06 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:25:06 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!] Message-ID: <39.e8d609.25cf0872@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/6/00 10:45:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > From: "Michael Grosh" > > Lee, I like to hear voices of reason in what is, like it or not, an anarchic > environment. Good job. > > Michael #220 I second that! Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949857906.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:29:30 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:29:30 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <90.4fc2e4.25cf097a@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/5/00 9:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, parks24 at hotmail.com writes: > From: "Thomas Parks" > > To you guys working on your toe rails: > I had to have new toe rails made(It didn't have any!!!) and put on > "Tradewinds" when I bought it two years ago. The carpenter who put them on > use C clamps to bend the new toe rails. He used my stanchion post to pull > them in with. He just gradually pulled them in as he put in the bolts about > every six inches. Worked like a charm. > Tom Parks > "Tradewinds" #48 And they probably take a 'set' and would stay curved if you took them off now. It's encouraging to know it can be done without steam bending, but I'm just curious: was stem bending used to make the original? Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949858170.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 11:56:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:56:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, et al, I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have experienced situations where the noise became so much greater than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list recently. Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out on the water. I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a few suggestions. When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting material if it's appropriately labeled. Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the message readers to have to deal with it. Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly rather than take offense at their remarks. - George Dan Sternglass wrote: > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > discussions in their own right. > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > on **that** list will get the replies. > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949867006.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Feb 6 16:06:00 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:06:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. (I once passed abeam of IL MOLINO. Does that count?) And I found these two threads to be enjoyable conversations with those friends, that afforded a welcome respite from the gre yness of winter. And I learned a few things along the way, and I was made aware of a wonderful book (N by E) that I would otherwise have likely never discovered. And I was given occasion to revisit a number of beautiful small boat designs, which in turn gave me renewed appreciation for the qualities of the Alberg 30 that led me ultimately to choose her over all the others. And so, by commodious vicus of recirculation, the discussion returned (for me) to the on-topic rediscovery of why I have such an emotional attachment to a snowcovered 10,000-pound hunk of steel, dacron and fibreglass that sucks so much money out of my bank account. I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if this post is itself considered offtopic. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949881960.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 6 18:36:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:36:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] No Defense needed (was Take non A-30 stuff off the list please!) References: <2b.18808bf.25cf6668@aol.com> Message-ID: <389E2FBE.DDA84138@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > In defense of all of us perpetrators, I would like to note that the two > offtopic threads -- and I accept (for present purposes) that discussions of > other boat designs and nautical literature are offtopic -- were clearly > labelled; that I and others offered initially to take them offlist if anyone > objected, and no one did; that more than a few of us participated in them; > and that, but for these two threads, the list has been nearly silent, but for > a rousing discussion of how to pull one's prop. No defense needed. I think Dan's point is that it's starting to go on too long. IOW, it's a request for different action in the future, not a complaint about past action. > Maybe I need to get a life -- my girlfriend thinks me a quaint but hopeless > eccentric for (among other things) corresponding with a group of strangers > united only by their common ownership of an Alberg 30. But I think of the > participants in this list more as friends than strangers, even though I've > yet to meet a single one of you face-to-face. I've made some very good friends on-line. Some I've had the chance to subsequently meet. Some I haven't. Some in each category I've grieved deeply at their deaths. > I was sorry to hear, George, that some have left the list. Tell us: Was any > of them an Alberg 30 owner? Oh, and please accept my apologies in advance if > this post is itself considered offtopic. I don't know who has left or for what reason. I really don't monitor the list members. I just happened to notice today that the number of subscribers was down from a couple weeks ago. In any event, I think the best solution would be a private newsgroup for the chatty part of this, but I don't have a server for that and I don't like any of the web-based substitutes. Someday I'll take care of that. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949891006.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 6 21:27:03 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:27:03 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JRogers at scelectric.ca Mon Feb 7 05:38:26 2000 From: JRogers at scelectric.ca (Jim Rogers) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:38:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement Message-ID: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> From: Jim Rogers Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass bearing? I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. Jim Rogers XANADU II # 90 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949930706.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 07:25:25 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:25:25 PST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <20000207152525.84919.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" If it was me I would check with "Things Remembered" at your local mall. They seem to have a little bit of everything and can make items you might need. Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949937125.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 07:32:43 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque References: <000a01bf712b$f80b8460$698c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <004801bf7182$9fb21ac0$276df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 08:09:11 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the harken and lewmar. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939751.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:02 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB7@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939262.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:58 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB3@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939258.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:01:01 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB5@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939261.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:59 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB4@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Love. Relationships? E - Commerce! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939259.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:00:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "Michael Grosh" >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get back to you Thursday or so. Michael Checkmate #220 _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939256.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:02:56 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sorry about that! (nm) Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFCD@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" nm --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949939376.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Feb 7 08:42:12 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:42:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Joe, I second the idea to look very carefullly at this. I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! In any case, make sure your "cosmetic" efforts don't make it harder to do a structural fix that might be required further down the line. Good luck Tom F. Calliope #287 -----Original Message----- From: alberg30 [mailto:alberg30 at interactive.net] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:27 AM To: Alberg 30 List Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque From: "alberg30" To the Group: The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. The liner/glass has chipped and broken away in some small spots. I plan to mount a wood piece across this area to cover the damaged spots, and I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" _____ Please click above to support our sponsor _____ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949941732.0 From avine at ledalite.com Mon Feb 7 09:15:01 2000 From: avine at ledalite.com (Andy Vine) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:15:01 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Andy Vine We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! Andy Vine Anila Vara #175 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- If you want to be single again, Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949943701.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 7 12:38:19 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <389F2D1B.846F5018@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I remember seeing a whole rack of this type plaque in a chandlery (sp) someplace , I believe it may have been in Oriental , NC. I will keep an eye out the next time I am in a likely place. I don't believe you will have much trouble finding one. TomS A30 #412 InCahoots Joe wrote: .... I would like to mount a brass plaque to that piece of wood announcing "Captain's Quarters." Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced brass plaque like this, either retail or through the internet? Thanks in advance for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949955899.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 7 12:45:21 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? Michael Checkmate#220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949956321.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 7 13:01:48 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:01:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> From: John Birch My experience has been to get the biggest winches you can afford and that will fit the winch base without cutting the combing - although I've seen a couple who have neatly gone with oversized and successfully removed some combing without aesthetic damage. Additionally, on our A-30 we put angled teak pads under to make the winches vertical on the bases as the canted outboard winch bases is a design and ergonomic mistake. Why the largest winches? Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 7 14:10:50 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:10:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >From: "Michael Grosh" > >I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words >harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can >recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as >long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with >the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > >May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > >Michael >Checkmate#220 Hi all. One thing to keep in mind is that 2 speed winches can break some thing if you are trying to pull the boat off when you are aground. The 1 speed Merriman has a mechanical advantage of 8 to 1. If you brace yourself against the bulkhead you can probably exert a force of 200 pounds This means that you are putting a force of 1600 pounds on the line. Try multiplying the MA of a two speed winch by 200! I think my Barients are 28 to 1. If so, that means that I can pull the line with a force of 5600 pounds. Just a thought. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 PS I agree with Michael. They are great. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949961450.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 7 14:24:27 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. In-Reply-To: <389F32B9.F74D3B23@idirect.com> References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000207171916.00b5a470@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 04:01 PM 2/7/00 -0500, John Birch wrote: >Why the largest winches? >Because you aren't getting any younger or stronger. John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Don?t buy your Valentine a Gift by clicking here. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949962267.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Feb 7 15:16:51 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:51 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winche update Message-ID: <389F5261.583E263E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I found a 1999 scandvik cataloge in the book case. it has the low down. 28st: power ratio= 2 spd 26.5:1 base size= 5 15/16 drum = 2 3/4 40st: " " = " 39.5:1 " " = 6" drum = 3" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949965411.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 7 16:31:14 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:31:14 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: beam damage- captains quarters brass plaque References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4CFB2@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf71cb$cf5335e0$128c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" FYI,Regarding the damage to the support beam: Close inspection indicates that this damage to the support beam is maybe from a type of delamination that caused the "gelcoat" on the outside of the beam to separate from the fiberglass below. This for a later boat, so sistering the aluminum beam is not a repair option.There appears to have been a few "pockets" of air or dead space, about the size of a quarter in two places along the beam. Looks like a layup problem. And this problem has reoccurred elsewhere but been repaired by someone else years ago, in areas little structural stress.Still, I have no doubt that as my mast began sinking a while back, it aggravated this condition, causing the "gelcoat" to break away. My repairs to the mast step, ala the 1998 Maintenance Manual have resolved the structural questions I think. The wood and brass plaque are cosmetic, of course. Another alternative would be to fill the damaged areas with epoxy putty, but then I have to match the liner color, and I don't think it will look much better. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grosh [mailto:mgrosh at shore.intercom.net] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:33 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: Re: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque > > > From: "Michael Grosh" > > > >The forward fiberglass beam, that runs amidships between the head and the > foul weather locker, on my A30 is slightly damaged. > > My Alberg is pre liner-but your description of damage set off some warning > signals-is that damage related to (downward)beam deflection? Anyway, I have > a bunch of marine catalogs at work, I have seen the plaque you are talking > about somewhere and starting with the Perko catalog I'll take a look and get > back to you Thursday or so. > > Michael > Checkmate #220 > _____ > > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969874.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 7 16:24:58 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:24:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! References: <389C5D32.AF614017@stmktg.com> <389DD1FE.C91D7E13@min.net> Message-ID: <389F1DFE.2F0DDE49@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Aye, Well said, Captain George! Scott Wallace George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: George Dinwiddie > > Dan, et al, > > I find myself with sympathies on both sides of this issue. On the > one hand, I find that trying to limit a discussion too narrowly > tends to impoverish the discourse. On the other hand I, too, have > experienced situations where the noise became so much greater > than the signal that it was no longer worth my time to sort through > it. I've noticed that a number of people have left the list > recently. > > Dan, I also appreciate the manner in which you broached the subject. > I'd like to call others' attention to the fact that Dan was not > suggesting that people silently lurk, but that they limit off-topic > discussions. The line of appropriateness is going to vary from > person to person, but an occasional discussion of the topic is > not out of line. I also know from experience that sailing forums > tend to wander further afield in the winter when we can't get out > on the water. > > I have no list in playing message cop, but I would like to make a > few suggestions. > > When you send a message or reply to a message, do give consideration > to the question of whether it should go to a single person or to > the list. Onelist.com makes this a little more difficult by setting > the "Reply-to" header to point to the list. This makes it more > difficult to reply off the list, but it can still generally be done. > > If the topic of discussion is changing, take the time to change the > subject header. It's much easier to skip over uninteresting > material if it's appropriately labeled. > > Also, consider trimming the amount of quoted material. While it can > be very confusing when a reply includes no context, it can be equally > confusing and annoying when the entire thread is quoted in a reply. > I find it especially annoying when the advertising trailers are not > trimmed from the reply. Surely they're not of importance. It's better > for the one message poster to clean things up than for all of the > message readers to have to deal with it. > > Finally, please remember that we're all friends here. In a textual > medium, it's very easy to misconstrue someone's remarks. In face to > face conversations, you have many non-verbal cues that are missing > here. Always give others the benefit of the doubt. Respond civilly > rather than take offense at their remarks. > > - George > > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I have found myself deleting close to 100% of the > > A-30 mail in the past few weeks. I -strongly- second the suggestion to > > limit the discussion (generally at least) to A-30 related topics. > > Nautical literature and comparisons of other boats are interesting to > > some, I'm sure, but really they're off topic when they become protracted > > discussions in their own right. > > > > Most e-mail programs let you make your own small lists for that sort of > > purpose. Once you get a thread going, just and everyone > > on **that** list will get the replies. > > > > George?... as moderator of this list, can you render an opinion on > > this... maybe I'm out of line here, but I bet I'm not the only one. > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com > > Watcher of the Skies, #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want To Be Showered With Kisses? > Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949969498.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:34:10 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:34:10 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement References: Message-ID: <389F9CC2.FF25905A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Andy - I replaced the block from a bosun's char, it was very straight forward. The only problem is that the new rope block is larger than the old wire block, and it wants it interfere with the main halyard. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 Andy Vine wrote: > From: Andy Vine > > We are looking at replacing the wire & rope jib halyard with an all rope > one. The reason is that the wire is starting to fray where it gets wrapped > around the winch on the mast. I am curious if anyone has a solution for this > problem, other than replacing the entire halyard. Also, if we decide to > replace it with rope, what is involved in replacing the sheave at the top of > the mast? Is it a job that can be done from bosun's chair? > Thanks in advance for any advice from this amazing fund of A30 knowledge! > Andy Vine > Anila Vara #175 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > If you want to be single again, > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984450.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:40:55 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help Message-ID: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - Pulled Strayaway Child #229 out today for routine maintenance & found an un-expected problem: The rudder heel fitting was missing and the pin badly damaged. So, I need some help. 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I need to get one fabricated? 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the correct diameter? 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start stripping it. Any & all help appreciated. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949984855.0 From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 20:48:51 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:48:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389FA033.60E2B61D@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Jim - This is pretty straight forward, but not always easy. 1. Remove the propeller. 2. Remove the two small set screws on either side of the stern gland. You will need an Allen wrench for this. 3. Fish out the cutlass bearing. Use a small screwdriver to push through the water vents at the boat end of the gland, and/or use a pick or punch through the screw holes. 4. If this doesn't work, you have two options. Option one is to remove the propeller shaft from inside the boat, then use a hacksaw blade to carefully cut through the cutlass bearing in 2 places & collapse it in. This is the commonly recommended method. Option 2 is to remove the stern gland. It is held on to the back of the boat with two lag bolts. Once the gland is off, it is easy to press out the cutlass bearing & insert a new one. This is what I did, and it worked well. Good luck. dls Strayaway Child Alberg30 #229 Jim Rogers wrote: > From: Jim Rogers > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? > > I'm sure someone has done this before, and being a relatively new Alberg 30 > owner I am reluctant to try this on my own. > > Jim Rogers > XANADU II # 90 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949985331.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:46:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:46:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The beam itself has no problems. - George "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949974417.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 17:35:50 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:35:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> Message-ID: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will press out the old bearing and press in the new one. - George Jim Rogers wrote: > > Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass > bearing? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949973750.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 7 18:31:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Need Rudder Help References: <389F9E57.8C7E5070@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <389F7FEC.1EC73903@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David > 1. Has anyone replaced this fitting? Is it a stock fitting or will I > need to get one fabricated? I think you'll need to have one fabricated. I think Phil Beigel has one that was drilled off-center that he's used for a pattern. You might call him about it. Bruce Rankin highly recommends bedding the shoe in 5200 and using a torch to heat it when you need to take it off. He says that you'll never lose one that way. > 2. How do I remove the remnants of the pin & replace it? What is the > correct diameter? It's a 1/2" pin. You may find it's a 1/2-13 headless bolt threaded into the 1" rudder post. Or, it may just be the end of the 1" post turned down to a 1/2" pin. In any event, the fix is to use a bronze bolt to replace the pin. There are several different construction methods detailed in the maintenance manual. > 3. How do I remove the rudder? I assume that I pull the prop shaft out > & lower the rudder, but how do I get the gudgeons (sp?) in the center of > the rudder off of the shaft? This may be obvious once I remove the > multiple layers of bottom paint, but it was too late today to start > stripping it. The gudgeons are two pieces. You'll probably find you have to remove some fairing compound under the paint to get to the screws. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977068.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 18:43:29 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:43:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <003101bf71de$480aa9c0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Greg, last year I replaced my main winches. The old ones were 2 speed non-ST #16 which definitely were not up to the task at hand, and with the predominant winds where I sail that means tacking every 15 -20 minutes. At the end of the day, I`d be all tired out. For new ones I debated between 28 ST to 40 ST. Most manufacturers recommended minimum 28s for a 30 footer. I settled for Harken 2 speed 40ST bronze with chrome finish. I don't regret choosing the 40's because of where I sail and as John says "We aren't getting younger" (although hey, I'm still a young pup at 41, :) ). One nice touch, that was available with the Harken was a polished bronze finish (on special order) which should look very good on the A-30 but I figured it would be something more to polish. I agree that the Andersens are superior, look very good (stainless steel) and I like their vertical ribs on the drum. I haven't seen any in use but they must be easier on rope than the sandpaper type finish on Harkens and Lewmars. I notice at the end of a day's sail some very fine residue of the same color as my genoa sheet around the winch base, indicating rope wear. The Andersens were a few hundred dollars more per winch than I was ready to pay. Anyhow, I'm sure you made a fine choice with those Andersens. Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: greg vandenberg > > While at the the strictly sail show in chicago we purchased new winches for > bathtub mary #312. We purchased new anderson ss28st. The anderson rep > recommended the 28st over the 12st and quoted a boat show price at 1/2 of > there quoted retail. we stopped at rigging only and they recommended ss40st at > $100 more ea. on we went to jsi and they matched rigging only for the 28st and > through in the shipping... we went for it... $1099.31. my question aside from > passing on the price info. is... what is the opinion of the group on 28's over > the 40's for an alberg cruised on the great lakes. anderson rep. margo and i > felt that the 2 speed 28 st were a very adequate up grade from the original > primaries which i think are mariman. PS: there is also a rebate (trade in > promotion) from scandvik of $75/ea for our old winches which reduces the price > another $150. we were impressed and the andersons seam so much supieror to the > harken and lewmar. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949977809.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 7 19:10:38 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Folks don't want to start a new discussion about keeping the list to only a-30 and Carl Alberg topics,but this weekend in Biloxi Miss.I came across a man who was restoring a Pearson Vanguard 34?He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces on more than one design.My a-30 is the sister ship to the pearson only smaller.All responses welcomed. Dick #191 High Spirits --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949979438.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Feb 7 19:34:18 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:34:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A4D100@hrm06.house.gov> <389F7591.C573F104@min.net> Message-ID: <005f01bf71e5$614dc780$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Tom, I agree with George. I have #466 and need to do some repair. It is not the beam. The beam rests on the bulkhead, which rests on the floor liner, which rests on the hull (well not quite).. Pull out the teak and holly floor piece in your v-berth and with a flashlight look under aft toward the v-berth doorway. You'll see the liner doesn't rest on the bilge, and the bilge at that point is a little wider than the doorway. Then look or feel you way under the liner (where the bulkhead rests against it) on both side of the bilge. If like mine, there is an inch or more of clearance for quite a distance. So there is probably 1.5 feet (give or take a few inches) of unsupported area on each side of center. I guess Alberg relied too heavily on the stiffness of the floor liner to support the pressure of the rig. And there is some balsa core material under the liner where the door step is, presumably to add stiffness but there is no fiberglass on the underside of the core. Seems to me stiffness requires a sandwich of core with fiberglass on both sides. Maybe another cost cutting shortcut taken by Alberg. Another telltale sign, crawl into the v-berth, with your flaslight look at the floor liner to port and starboard alongside the bulkhead. You may find stress cracks or outright cracks altogether. Anyhow a fix is proposed in the maintenance manual. Have a real close look and inspect everything you can to determine the right cause. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Beam damage in later models: was brass plaque, etc > From: George Dinwiddie > > Tom, > > On the newer boats, problems with the head door closing are due to the > inner pan sagging and the bulkheads supporting the beam with it. The > beam itself has no problems. > > - George > > > "Forhan, Thomas" wrote: > > > > I think the A30 maintenance manual has a discussion on sistering or > > repairing the beam in the later boats- its not just us early birds that have > > the problem, it just might be taking longer to show up! > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949980858.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 21:52:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:52:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] captains quarters brass plaque Message-ID: <16.fb0f9e.25d10903@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, any trophy shop wil be happy to ingrave one for you, any size. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shop for your Valentine at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989123.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:01:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:01:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Jib halyard replacement Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Andy, while you are in the chair, what are you useing to pull yourself up. That is best done with the mast down. Take out the shiv, lube it and make sure it turns freely, have it machined for a 3/8 lene, a nice big groove, and re install, You have to take off a plate, little screws, remove the pin....... hard to not drop some thing working over your head. Replace with good quality, like Stay set X, or something Do the same with the jib halyard if you haven't already. There you will need to replace the old tired block with a good, bigger one. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949989702.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 7 22:15:19 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:15:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. Click here for Valentine Surprises. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949990519.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:51 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 04:52:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <6f.d9290d.25d14173@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 10:28:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << e said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall.After checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could this have been a collaboration by these two men,or did they join forces >>on the vanguard. Hi Dick, I have that beautiful book on Phil Rhodes, and it has an article on the 32 foot vanguard. there is no mention of collaboration between Rhodes and Alberg on this design. Both designers excelled in turning out the old CCA type hull, but if you look closely , which I love to do :) you can see they each had their own approaches. Rhodes liked slightly longer overhangs, and slightly higher, wall sided topsides, amongst other differences. Which was 'better'? The longer ends in the Rhodes boats might have produced more speed in flat water, but then probably hobby-horsed more in chop and waves, and taking the other differences into account, it comes down to you taking your pick. The Vanguards are beautiful boats, no doubt. There were 4 of them at Miramar in Sheepshead Bay when I was sailing there in the 70's, snd the owner's loved them. I have to say, though, that when my dad picked up an older, 1965 Islander 32, I was surprised that the Islander proved to be the faster boat. Great boats, in any case, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950003571.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 02:31:36 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 05:31:36 EST Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. Message-ID: <7f.65b90e.25d14a88@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/7/00 5:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: << John's from Canada, so he probably didn't learn what Priscilla Mullens told John Alden. Cheers, bob >> What DID Priscilla tell John? :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950005896.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 04:31:13 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301bf7230$631ced20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde You're right Russ. I meant to say Whitby. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Guy, don't blame those short cuts on Carl..Whitby did it. As I under stand > it, Carl was quite unhappy with the iron ballast when he specified lead. > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Finding a sweetheart is hard work. Shopping for one shouldn't be. > Click here for Valentine Surprises. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950013073.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Feb 8 05:08:07 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:08:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes Message-ID: <003601bf7235$8b1e11a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >Pearson Vanguard 34? Actually, the Vanguard is 32', not 34'. >He said that Carl Alberg was the designer with someone else that he couldn't recall. After >checking the pearson web site,it listed Phil Rhodes as designer,could >this have been a collaboration by these two men No, Carl Alberg had nothing to do with the design--it's a Rhodes original. I believe Alberg's association with Pearson was over by the time the Vanguard was penned by Rhodes, just before Bill Shaw took over as chief designer. Although similar to boats like the Triton and Alberg 30 in overall looks, there are differences that are apparent to the Alberg-trained eye--especially the Vanguard's very pronounced sheerline which, to my eye, is not as nice as the Alberg and Triton sheerlines and makes the Vanguard appear hogged, or banana-like. Rhodes was generally considered a master of the perfect sheerline, but the Vanguard just isn't as attractive as most of his designs. Of course, owning two Alberg-designed boats, I could be a little biased... Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 (definitely an Alberg!) North Yarmouth, ME --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950015287.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Tue Feb 8 07:02:54 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did they quibble over what must have been hundreds. Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke group was happy --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950022174.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Tue Feb 8 07:53:57 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:53:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <000701bf724c$b5d3c9a0$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Well, blame us Canucks then. Maybe it was our "original" group of Folkboat sailors at National Yacht Club who quibbled. By the way, when I was a kid racing in A30 #234 Surya, there was an Alberg with lead ballast who everybody complained about; is this a true memory? Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: greg vandenberg To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts > From: greg vandenberg > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. > > > > > > Whitby cut a lot of corners to get the price to where the original Chesapeke > group was happy > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950025237.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:07:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:07:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts Message-ID: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026026.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 08:09:03 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] ballast. Message-ID: <44.185899e.25d1999f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gord, I can see how the lead would make the boat stiffer, but the question is, how did the others know in the first place? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950026143.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Tue Feb 8 06:23:23 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Phil Rhodes References: <389F892E.6020@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <007201bf7254$96c25240$5d6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I had always thought the Rhodes 41 yawl was an Alberg design-I see now I was mistaken. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950019803.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 09:49:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:49:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Friends, When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling paint in the interior. We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to do a job like this? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950032148.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 13:52:58 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:52:58 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A08FF1.C2E47C3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... I believe it would take much more volume than this pancake compressor would be able to deliver for sand blasting. The "sandblasters" that I am familiar with ... eat a LOT of air. Tom S # 412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp > air compressor for about 130 bucks. .....Anyone on the list have > experience with this kind of equipment, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950046778.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:22:33 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:22:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cutlass Bearing Replacement In-Reply-To: <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> References: <9018B5BE3241D311872C00C04F52A8E75E3A6D@CLIFF> <389F72F6.3301184C@min.net> Message-ID: <200002081722330100.001234F6@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" George, You are a fountain of wisdom. we'd be lost with out you! Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/7/2000 at 8:35 PM George Dinwiddie wrote: >From: George Dinwiddie > >Jim, > >Take off the prop. Take out the two bolts that hold the cutless >bearing housing to the keel. *Unscrew* the housing and slide it >off the end of the shaft. Take it to a machine shop that will >press out the old bearing and press in the new one. > > - George > >Jim Rogers wrote: >> >> Can someone on the list outline the steps required to replace the cutlass >> bearing? > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048553.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Feb 8 14:29:48 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors In-Reply-To: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <200002081729480000.0018D815@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" You are really asking for trouble with a sandblaster. Sand everywhere, and if the pressure isn't just right, it will cut fiberglass like butter. The Porter Cable Paint remover is the way to go if you are going to spend the money. On the other hand, the inexpensive flap wheel sanders you see in WW catalogs fit a drill motor and work well. A good flexible pad palm sander works too (Porter Cable or Dewalt). Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/8/2000 at 12:49 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Friends, >When we bought Stargazer, she suffered from that common boat malady,, peeling >paint in the interior. >We redid the overhead in the main cabin, but have put off the rest, because >as anyone who's done this know,s it is such an unpleasant job. I don't know >which I hate more; sanding the bottom, or trying to scrape and sand the >overhead of a cabin, or the inside of lockers!! >Which brings me to the question; in the latest Harbor Freight Tools >catalogue, I see what they call a pancake compressor- a small, 50 lb., 4 hp >air compressor for about 130 bucks. It led me to think that sand blasting the >offending areas clean might be the easiest solution to the problem. >Anyone on the list have experience with this kind of equipment, and tried >this kind of application? Besides the compressor, what else would I need to >do a job like this? >Thx, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950048988.0 From blancs at us.net Tue Feb 8 16:39:34 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] Message-ID: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did fine, but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... the thing's a beast. I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a respirator (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: Re: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:29:48 -0500 Size: 4498 URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 17:15:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:15:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <3e.e98428.25d10e77@aol.com> <38A0301A.1B7DB8C5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A0BFBE.268E5857@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie According to *The Early Years* by Bruce Beckner, "Our beloved Alberg 30 was, according to Mr. Carl Alberg, born in the minds of six or eight Toronto yachtsmen who were interested in racing a class of 30-foot fiberglass yachts. This was during the 1961 season." Later, in a discussion of a group of Washington DC sailors, it says, "Bud and Boyce drove up to Ontario and spent a day visiting the facilities of the new Whitby Boat Works and, more specifically, looking at the nearly-completed hull of "Alberg 30" number KC-1 then under construction. It was photographed from all angles, even including one shot which Bud took by climbing into the rafters of the building shed. Then the two Washingtonians sat down with Kurt Hansen, the owner-manager of the Whitby Boat Works, and price negotiations commenced. The initial asking price was $13,500. Bud Tomlin countered with an offer of $7,500 and dropped the hint that he could provide enough orders at that price to keep the boat works operating at full capacity all winter. It was casually pointed out that Hansen had lost some good men the previous winter through his inability to keep his people busy filling orders.... Bargaining continued until a near-impasse was reached with Kurt Hansen at $10,500 and the Washington delegation stuck hard at $9,000. "With neither side appearing ready to budge, Bud Tomlin offered a proposition: if he, Tomlin, could guess within $500 the cost to build the boat, Kurt Hansen would accept his final, hard offer yet to be made. They agreed. Tomlin guessed $8,500 and Hansen responded that that would be within the $500 specified, except that Bud had forgotten overhead. The latter answered, 'Nonsense! You own the plant and equipment free and clear and your only overhead is your secretary, Doris, and she doesn't count 'cause she's also your wife!' He then made his 'final, hard offer' of $9,500 for the boat, fully equipped to U.S. Coast Guard requirements and delivered, duty paid, to the Washington, D.C. Sailing Marina. Hansen replied that that wasn't possible -- the trucking costs would eliminate all profits. But Tomlin persisted, pointing out that Hansen owned a tractor and flatbed semi which could do the job for the cost of a drive and fuel. A bit more arguing followed and a price of $9,650 was agreed upon by both parties. The Washingtonians headed for home." - George greg vandenberg wrote: > > Is there any insight as to why the Chesapeak group was willing to allow the > corner cutting. Was it naivet?... I doughty it. Or just a dollar issue. It is > my understanding that $30M in 1960 dollars could buy a grand house. Why did > they quibble over what must have been hundreds. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950058942.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 8 17:38:17 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:38:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors] References: <38A0B746.55DD8EAA@us.net> Message-ID: <38A0C4BA.2459E074@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Porter-Cable has a 5" random Orbital palm sander that is great ! It can generally be bought for less than $60.00 and I would highly recommend it ! Tom S # 412 "T. K. Kenny has signed on to a trial deal with AOL .... his address is .....KenHornKEH at aol.com ... you might want to send him a note. He is in dire need of some help with his computer. Maybe the next time you get to town you can give him a hand. I am not much help with compatibles. Tom ..... still hanging around the salad bar looking for a laugher ! Blanc" wrote: > From: "T. K. Blanc" > > I used my 5" Porter-Cable right angle random orbit sander. It did > fine, > but was a task to push up against the cabin top in tight situations... > > the thing's a beast. > > I think I would use a 4" palm size random orbit sander and a > respirator > (or a really good sanding mask). I'd do it NOW before it get's too > hot. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060297.0 From bydel at aol.com Tue Feb 8 17:43:03 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 9 Feb 2000 01:43:03 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com On SallyB (#441)the battery(1)is not in any way secured. I would like to add a second battery and am interested in advise on how to secure them both. The current battery box does not have a top. I assume that I need to purchase 2 new boxes, or is there a double box, end to end. How should I secure the boxes to the fiberglass floor under the floor board. Thanks for your help Bill --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950060583.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Feb 8 18:32:02 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:32:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Which Winches. References: <389EEE27.3D3E100E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <001d01bf71ac$b3c1cf40$086df0d8@intercom.net> Message-ID: <002a01bf72a5$d9002960$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde For the most part, the winch numbers for Harken, Lewmar & Andersen represent their power ratio. I know Barient winch numbers do not as well as some others. I've seen used Barient 22s advertised to be equivalent to Lewmar 40s. If unsure about what your winch number represents, the power ratio can be calculated this way. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Turn the winch handle one turn and determine how many turns are made by the body of the winch. If 6.5 turns of the body are generated by one turn of the winch handle, then gear ratio is 6.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared or for purposes of power ratio calculation it is 1 to 1. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 6.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (6.5 x 10) / 2 = 32.5 is your power ratio If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Grosh To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Which Winches. > From: "Michael Grosh" > > I don't think winches are numbered to a common standard-in other words > harken #28's may not have the same power ratio as Lewmar#28's. If I can > recall correctly, my boat has Barient #22's. I think I am safe in saying as > long as you have 2 speeds, you'll be thrilled (and your mate ecstatic) with > the increase in performance/ease of handling over the standard Merriman's > > May I suggest moving the Merriman's aft to do duty as spinnaker winches? > > Michael > Checkmate#220 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950063522.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Feb 8 20:23:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:23:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] overhead sanding Message-ID: <38A0EBDA.371C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Lee:Stick to a small palm orbital sander B&D $49.95.Sand that has been blasted breaks into such a fine dust that I believe it could make its way into a ball bearing,and the surface would be really rough if you've ever seen glass works with the frosted look,I believe the glass is blasted to create that look.Take your time don't burn yourself out in one day.How do you eat an elephant?one bite at a time. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950070234.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:23 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cost cutting shortcuts References: <19.10ad2fd.25d1992a@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A0EBF6.9E8877AF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Actually Carl's original specification was for an external lead keel, and he was not too happy about having to draw in an internal keel due to Hansen's insistence on one. The ease of building is enhanced by internal construction but at least he didn't fill the keel with punchings like some builders of the time did. When one haggles down too hard you don't get the same quality - something has to give. The fact that with all the compromises, the A-30 is still a good boat, indicates that corner cutting from Kurt's stand point is not the same as producing crap. More specifically, the corner cuttings can largely be retrofitted without too much effort. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65. Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, your guess is as good as mine on the score of price. I think the > original group tried to force the price down as far as the could, because of > the group buy. Yea, a couple of hundred, way down the road, doesn't mean > much. But I think the iron balast was Whitby's idea all along. Lead is > much better because of the extra leverage, and the non rusting properties. > That was Carls original specs. They saved a bunch on that. > Russ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:43:32 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:43:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee, I had a friend who used a sandblaster to remove paint on a wood boat. Disaster!! I suspect you would have much the same problem, especially in side the boat. You will have to have some heavy duty breathing , an outside air supply. Just one wrong swing and zap, there goes some wood, or plastic, or metal. Not to mention the cleanup, ugh!! My friend spent more time repairing the damage from the sandblasting than it would have taken to scrape. Some 'labor saving devices" aren't worth the trouble they cause. If you do it, please let us know how it came out. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950071412.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 20:56:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Bill I have a deep cycle battery in the back bilge compartment, and a large deep cycle battery in the middle compartment. The back one is held by large screw eyes on each side, and a rubber strap with 'S' hooks on each end over the top, attached to the screw eyes. The front, larger one is held by straps, and strap eyes screwed in the botton of the compartment. For more security, you might use two screw eyes, and two rubber straps. Not bungie cords. The straps are about one inch wide, black rubber, the kind you can get at a truck supply store. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950072185.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 8 21:19:16 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:19:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950073556.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 8 21:30:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: Message-ID: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, I'm pretty sure Bacon's doesn't have a web site. Anyway, I don't have any direct experience with cruising spinnakers (I use the symmetrical spinnaker when cruising. It's not hard to handle in light air and takes little tending if you overtrim it slightly.), but Neil Pryde in Baltimore had, some years back, a bunch of cruising spinnakers they'd made on speculation and offered at a discount to the albergers. You might see if they still have any or put a message in the Mainsheet to see if anyone has one they're not using and want to sell. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950074214.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Wed Feb 9 06:21:53 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the far east. I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > Still, there are > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > the bow and > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > bought used through > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950106113.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Wed Feb 9 06:42:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:42:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> Message-ID: <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello gang, Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just using the the so called Racing gear. Gord #426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Forhan, Thomas To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > From: "Forhan, Thomas" > > Last year I bought a "cruising" spinakker from JSI in Florida, which you can > access via http://www.sailnet.com/store/ . > > It was about $850 including a sock, part of the deal is they -as do some > other firms, ask around- have made up some stock sizes and you are buying > off the shelf. One size was about a 34 foot luff, so ok for an A30. They > only come in one color combination: red, white and blue, and are made in the > far east. > > I wanted to keep things simple and I also did not want to invest in the > hardware- like the pole- associated with a true spinnaker. The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > Still, I find that I can make good speed with this sail broad reaching, so > we just tack downwind and have a nice sail. > > If my boat already had all the hardware, I might have done something > different, but this sail has worked out well for us and is a lot of fun. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SandersM at aol.com [mailto:SandersM at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:19 AM > > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > > Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such > > > > > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > > I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. > > Still, there are > > those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at > > the bow and > > controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be > > bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > > > All advice (as always) is greatly appreciated. > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > Oyster Bay, New York > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > > ---------------------------- > > > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > > Click Here > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Valentine's Day Shopping Made Simple. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950107350.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 07:29:55 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:29:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them accessible as is. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950110195.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 08:04:52 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:04:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> Message-ID: <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail off to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. Tom wrote: The disadvantage > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950112292.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Feb 9 08:46:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while singlehanding and racing my T26. Better than poling out a genoa and running wing on wing. With the drifter on an adjustable pendant you can manage it fairly well from the cockpit. I will say that boat speed was best when running off the stern quarter, not downwind. You can carry it longer as the wind moves forward than a regular spinnaker, just pull the pendant down and you have a rather baggy genoa. You don't need a turtle to collapse it. You still need to prepare things in advance and think your sail changes through. Bob Lincoln Indigo#590 -----Original Message----- Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such From: SandersM at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:19 PM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950114795.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Wed Feb 9 09:08:15 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: <73.ff6230.25d1b114@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A19EFF.ECC1FC43@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson My brother heads a European company which uses plastic blast media for cleaning things which must not be abraded when their surface dirt or paint is removed. His company cleans grand prix cars, airplanes, etc. He has used it for his own boat. The plastic destroys itself, takes off the paint and leaves the surface in perfect condition. One system uses a compressor, and he says "for difficult areas where you can't keep the brush in contact with the surface, you make a little tent of clear polyethylene and tape it to the surface you are cleaning... and put your hands in with the nozzle and the vacuum cleaner hose and open 'blast in a bag', as it were. Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward -- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands, the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want To Be Showered With Kisses? Visit eGroups Valentine Gift Guide Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950116095.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 09:41:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:41:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> From: John Birch Greg; How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? John, Sunstone KC-65 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > We put the whisker pole or (your spinnaker pole) on the clew and go wing and > wing dead down wind. It is also faster at times while going down wind to sail > off > to to one side or the other while heading in a down wind direction. > PS: I was speaking about this very subject a the sail show and the subject > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been modified > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive to pick > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > Tom wrote: The disadvantage > > is if you want to head dead downwind, this set up is not the greatest. > > > > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any experience with such sails, and any > > > suggestions? Is it possible, or likely, that one can be bought used through > > > Bacon or elsewhere? Does Bacon have a Web site? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:01:02 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:01:02 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:22:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << rom: SandersM at aol.com I have no -- zero -- interest in racing with spinnakers. Still, there are those days when a lightweight yet manageable sail, tacked at the bow and controlled as a genoa, might make the boat move. >> Hey Sanders, you are describing a drifter- made of ripstop nylon like a spinaker, but cut in the shape of an oversize genoa. The older ones have hanks along the luff, but newer designs are attached at the head, takc and clew only. It is a very useful sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or so. They are espensive to have made up new (well, expensive for my budget, anyway ) but second hand ones should not be hard to find. Out of Oyster Bay, where the wind is light so often, you'll be glad if you have one! Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950126462.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Feb 9 12:21:05 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 12:10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, addvalue at zeuter.com writes: << Fine plastic media is good for cleaning and less problem if any goes where you don't want it...won't wreck bearings like hard grit does. It is fiddly but effective if used properly. Use less air pressure to be more gentle." I've asked him to send info about Canadian and US availability. Marianne King-Wilson #369 Windward >> Hi Marianne, Thx for the reply. this sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to seeing the info. thx for the helpful responses from everyone else on the list, too. I think some of you misunderstood- I have no lack of experience with scrapers, and orbital sanders!!! that is precisely why I am looking for alternatives. What is worse than having sanded dust fall all over, fogging goggles, etc, and trying to fit scrapers and sanders into small corners in lockers, as you skin your knuckles, and tear the sandpaper. My patience with this kind of stuff is wearing thin, so if more modern media and better sandblasting equipment is available, don't try to stand between it and me!!!!!! :) thx, all, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950127665.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 14:59:26 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:59:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <000801bf731d$3a260800$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38A1F14C.98EBE64F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > I had a great drifter from North Sails which I used while > singlehanding and racing my T26. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137166.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:11:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:11:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <90.73c45a.25d3217e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A1F425.DD4872B6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Lee... I think your right. sail for running up to close reaching in less than 7 kts of wind or > so.e --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137897.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Wed Feb 9 15:07:06 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors References: Message-ID: <007501bf7352$8f677da0$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950137626.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Feb 9 15:18:19 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:18:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Cabin overhead and locker interiors Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754C0@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I had my Alfa Romeo bead blasted. They used the plastic from the holes from buttons (button holes?). It removed the paint without removing the galvanized coating on the metal. The interior was out as was the trim. I'm STILL removing dust and button hole parts from the car. With the top down, the stuff circulates around and gets everywhere! Are you sure you don't want to wet sand and paint? Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction From: "Michael Grosh" Sears makes a 'home size' sand blasting rig I have used. It didn't work very well in my application, but I think that was because it was too large a job. It may be perfect for interior cabins-be prepared for the media to go _everywhere_. The plastic stuff sounds interesting-I know everything from glass beads to crushed walnut shells are used for blasting. Be aware, in industrial blasting, 'black beauty' (obsidian, I think) is used due to OSHA concerns regarding siliconosis.Also, I would think a smaller size compressor is possible if a surge tank is set up-a continuous flow of high volume air is probably not necessary for what you are contemplating. Michael #220 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Wed Feb 9 15:31:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:31:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Greg; > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > John, > Sunstone KC-65 > > greg vandenberg wrote: > very subject a the sail show and the > > subject > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > modified > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > to pick > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950139100.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 9 16:05:50 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:05:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> From: John Birch Hi Greg; I'm not a sail maker but I do have a reasonable knowledge of sail construction, at Joe Fernades's invitation, helped loft and build our main for Sunstone - under Joe's guidance. I learned a lot from the experience and never spite or quibble at the price of sails now as I have seen first hand the amount of work that goes into building a sail. I do know something about the load orientation, cloth orientation, bias stretch, balanced and warp oriented cloth - enough to suspect that you really want to ask this guy how he is proposing to remake this sail. And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. In fact I once asked Joe about recutting a chute and he said it usually ruins the sail because used spinnaker cloth is so stretchy and winkled that it is extremely hard to sew it back together without puckering or something like that. He felt it is easy to cut with new cloth and get good results but recutting is to be avoided if at all possible. No he wasn't trying to sell me a new sail as that is not his style, and that is why I deal with him. Cheers, John, PS. I'd like to hear what your guy says to you. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... I doknow....He said it to me and I didn't question it. He's coming by > tomorrow to look at it... I try and remember to ask. > > John Birch wrote: > > > > From: John Birch > > > > Greg; > > > > How do you recut a symmetrical spinnaker into an asymmetrical one and > > keep the cloth correctly oriented along the load lines? > > > > John, > > Sunstone KC-65 > > > > greg vandenberg wrote: > > very subject a the sail show and the > > > subject > > > came up about the fact that my cruising spinnaker might have been > > > modified > > > from a spinnaker... sooo... you might find easier and less expensive > > > to pick > > > up a spinnaker and have it re-cut as a cruising spinnaker. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > $10 Savings on Pet Valentine Gifts. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? > Click here for $10 off purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Feb 9 17:09:36 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:09:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB02A991A8@hrm06.house.gov> <004701bf730b$e4e4d620$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A20FD0.26FDC3C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Gord, Gail and I got a spinnaker lesson from a friend (on a Laser 28 in about 3 knots of breeze, as it turned out). He also had a sock that he didn't use and was willing to sell. He said about the same, that it was more trouble that it was worth. We took it, but after flying the spinnaker the "old-fashioned" way, we returned it. It's not that hard, even double-handed, in light air. George Ramsey even flies his single-handed while cruising. - George Gord Laco wrote: > > Aboard an Alberg, a "real" spinnaker is a more usefull sail - and not that > tough to use. The earlier comment about overtrimming to calm them down > works. My experience with the various gadgets (socks etc) to make > spinnakers easier to handle usually make things more complicated than just > using the > the so called Racing gear. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Free Valentine?s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine?s Day gift? Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950144976.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Feb 9 22:31:05 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: <004001bf7314$1ebe6e80$4c6df0d8@intercom.net> References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them >accessible as is. That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my boat's? Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace in the battery compartment, anyway. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950164265.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Wed Feb 9 21:14:46 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:14:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? References: <950060583.8263@onelist.com> <3.0.3.32.20000209223105.0175514c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <005501bf7385$c0ca6f00$7a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" About these batteries: My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put them? -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." Are we talking about the same place? My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if you're gonna fit two. On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? Maybe I missed something. Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: Robert Kirk > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I use > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic buckle; > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using battery > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > >accessible as is. > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > boat's? > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss them. > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950159686.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 20:22:44 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:22:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Winch Power Ratio (Corrected) Message-ID: <002901bf737e$7a686a00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde I may have induced the list into error about how to determine the power ratio of your winches. Thanks to Bob Johns for pointing it out. So for anyone interested here goes. Some manufacturers winch numbers represent the actual power ratio and others' only represent a model number. This is how you can find out the power ratio of your winch and if you have a 2 speed what is the power ratio of the other speed. Most manufacturers quote the power ratio of their winches using a 10 inch winch handle. In stores you will find 8 & 10 inch handles. So if you are using the shorter one your actual power ratio will be less because you have less leverage. First determine the gearing ratio of your winch. Count how many turns of the winch handle it takes to turn the body of the winch one turn (this is where I made a mistake, I had said it the other way around in my previous note). If it takes 5.5 turns of the winch handle to turn the winch body one turn, then gear ratio is 5.5 to 1. If it is a one to one relationship then your winch is not geared, ratio is 1 to 1, the mechanical advantage comes only from the difference in the radius of the drum and the radius of the winch handle. Then calculate the power ratio: (gear ratio multiplied by winch handle length in inches) divided by radius of the drum in inches the drum being the part where the sheet winds around the winch If your gearing ratio is 5.5 to 1, your winch handle is 10 inches long and the radius of you drum is 2 inches then (5.5 x 10) / 2 = 27.5 to 1 is your power ratio If you were using an 8 inch handle on the same winch, your power ratio would be 22 to 1, a decrease of 20 %. If your winch is 2 speed, determine the gearing ratio when turning in the other direction and redo the calculation to get the power ratio for that speed. A lot of 2 speeds are geared in one direction only and not in the other (1 to 1 gear ratio). Larger and more expensive ones are geared in both directions. Guy Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcbentley at juno.com Mon Feb 7 06:38:25 2000 From: gcbentley at juno.com (George C Bentley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Take non A-30 stuff off the list please! Message-ID: <20000210.055100.-99880109.0.gcbentley@juno.com> From: George C Bentley To George Dinwiddie - I want to commend you on your thoughtful and tactful reply to this issue. I believe as the list moderator you have provided some useful suggestions to limit the annoyances while at the same time not stifling the discussions. George Bentley Whisper #356 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949934305.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Thu Feb 10 04:40:29 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <002a01bf73c4$03713bc0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" >You make me think - why the boxes in the first place? Just remember to securely cover the positive, ungrounded battery terminal to prevent accidental contact and/or damage; that is really the main purpose of the boxes. If your batteries are in a safe area, and are well secured, then you shouldn't really need the boxes. Do cover the positive terminals with good boots, though. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186429.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Thu Feb 10 04:36:34 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: <000f01bf73c3$7763a820$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Joe, my 2nd compartment is also sloped. Maybe put one battery in the rearmost compartment and the other one in the second compartment. Right now I have 2 in the rearmost, they are a little larger than a standard car battery. I think their size is Group 27. They are in battery boxes but I can't put the lid on the rearmost battery because the pan has a slight step so it sits a bit higher. Eventually I may move one to the other compartment. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > From: "alberg30" > > About these batteries: > > My two batteries are in the in the floor just forward of the engine > compartment, in the same area of the bilge (actually liner pan) where the > raw water intake valve is. The liner pan sits about 6 inches above the > actual bilge bottom. The batteries are strapped down to the liner pan. I > have to replace/upgrade my batteries and need more room. But where to put > them? > > -Someone said "2nd most forward bilge compartment." > Are we talking about the same place? > > My compartment is a tight fit, and the batteries need to be a certain > physical size to fit there. There's a limit to their height and length if > you're gonna fit two. > > On newer boats, in the next most forward bilge compartment, isn't the liner > pan sloped? How do you put batteries there? Are the older boats different? > > Maybe I missed something. > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Kirk > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:31 AM > Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? > > > > From: Robert Kirk > > > > At 10:29 AM 09-02-00 -0500, Michael Grosh wrote: > > > > >I can fit two large batteries in the 2nd most forward bilge compartment-I > > >make an attempt to keep weight forward on the Alberg-it takes some > > >maneuvering to get them through the hatch, but plenty of room once in. I > use > > >nylon webbing screwed to the bottom of the compartment(battery sitting on > > >the webbing) On my boat the bottom (ceiling?) appears to be glassed over > > >plywood. Backpacking equipment uses a new (for me) type of plastic > buckle; > > >snap release, and is adjustable. That would be a big improvement over the > > >nasty, rusted metal buckle I am now using. I have given up on using > battery > > >boxes down there,I have found the boxes collect more stuff (including, on > > >occasion, bilge water) to keep next to the battery then just having them > > >accessible as is. > > > > That sounds exactly my setup: Batteries in plastic boxes, held fast with > > webbing and buckles. You make me think - why the boxes in the first > > place? It seems if you can hold the battery down securely, by itself, > > there is no need for a box. My car battery isn't in a box, why should my > > boat's? > > > > Keep dirt out? Contain electrolyte spills? Pretty weak, I think. Is there > > something I'm forgetting? I think I'll follow Michael's lead and toss > them. > > > > While I'm at it, I need to fasten the straps more securely than the wood > > screw thru the webbing into the fiberglass floor. It doesn't slide, but > > would never handle a knockdown. But then, it probably isn't going anyplace > > in the battery compartment, anyway. > > > > Bob Kirk > > Isobar #181 > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950186194.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 07:11:40 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such References: <38A0FB66.494BA181@min.net> <38A19023.4731EBB5@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A1A6DA.7A1883E1@idirect.com> <38A1F8DB.307B733A@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> <38A200DB.4EFC883F@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38A2D52A.8AFF68D4@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg John... At the show he never said that he would do it. He said when that sense the sail was not made for the boat (previous owners wife purchased it 2nd hand as a gift to her husban) that it might have been such a situation. He'll be here today so I'll quiz him on it and get more info on the drifter. John Birch wrote: > > From: John Birch > > Hi Greg; > And so I would strongly recommend you ask him, because I > don't think it can be done - particularly to spinnakers. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950195500.0 From dsail at gte.net Thu Feb 10 09:59:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until recently that i have a problem. can i remove one screw/bolt at a time and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to properly keep the water out. also, i know i am addressing the choir here, but i attended the strictly sail show in chicago this weekend and looked at all the shiny new boats and walked away feeling good about purchasing rascal. yep, she needs things done, but i still feel she is a better boat than everything i looked at there. most of my sailing has been on island packets and i really like those boats. bill bolin from island packet yachts was at the show and we chatted a bit and he was complimentary of the alberg 30. coming from him that really made me feel good about the purchase. anyway, as usual thanks in advance for comments about the hull/deck query dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 18:58:36 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter Message-ID: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 10 19:18:20 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:18:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 Message-ID: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says Cruising. And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? Anyone want to take turns with me? Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 10 18:34:26 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A37527.C22FB7EF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe; Yes it is 1/4", you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea to be a larger dia. depending on your plans. I recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals for sure though. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe > #499"One Less Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailUI.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10526 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:15:08 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:15:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A38CCB.A09C0F9E@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Nice idea! > alberg30 wrote: > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950242508.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Thu Feb 10 20:31:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:31:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A39081.E0094F63@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Dan you make it sound mysterious. So you forgot to bed the toe rail? If your talking about water getting under the toe rail at the deck joint and running down the bolts into the cabin. I think I might just mask off the the joint and lay a bead of Life caulk or better in the joint. I think you could do the same treatment to the outer joint under the trim SS strip. The deck and hull have no core at this point to get saturated and it is a lot easier and less messy. > dan walker wrote: can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > properly keep the water out. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950243460.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 10 21:38:41 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:38:41 EST Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Guy, this is axactly the arrangement I have on Ca Va. When I bought the boat she had two batteries in the aft compartment. When I bought a bigger longer, deep cycle it would'nt fit there, so I had to move it forward. Just keep a cap cover on the + terminal. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950247521.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 11 06:10:44 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:10:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck References: <000a01bf73f0$8de98560$e4321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38A41861.69BD9CF8@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Sorry Dan... I just reread your mail and have had a cup of coffee. It came that way and you would like a fix. I think my solution is the same. > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > i apologize for bringing up this topic again since i realize there was > a lot of similar discussion recently on it, but we have had very > little moisture since i acquired rascal and did not realize until > recently that i have a problem. c --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950278244.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 06:06:27 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fw: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi all, I use a Sears deep cycle #24 battery in the compartment just forward of the engine. This battery is the backup battery and also acts as a starter battery for the Atomic 4. In the next compartment forward is the main battery, which consists of a pair of six volt golf cart batteries. This normally supplies everything but the starter. Provision is made to switch the batteries into any other desired configuration using a single pole, single throw battery switch and the main battery switch. The reason for (normally) placing the starting load on a separate battery from the other loads is to keep the starter from affecting devices such as radar. When cranking, the battery voltage drops and in the case of the radar it was kicked off while a 90 second time delay recycled. The two golf cart batteries add up to about 200 ampere-hours and weigh about 60 pounds each. I had to make separate boxes for them because normal boxes did not fit. The batteries came in cardboard boxes and I built the battery boxes by taping the cardboard boxes to a big piece of cardboard and building up about 3/16 inch of fiberglass on the cardboard boxes. (Cover the cardboard boxes with waxed paper or a plastic wrap.) The boxes have flanges on both sides, which are handy to lift them by. These boxes just fit into the second compartment. The aft golf cart battery is installed first and is slid aft under the sole. Then the forward golf cart battery is installed. The height of the golf cart batteries just cleared the cabin sole. About ten years after installing them, I had to replace them. The new ones were slightly higher and I had to modify one box and trim off a little of the post tops to make them fit. The setup has been highly satisfactory, although the battery switching mentioned in the first paragraph is somewhat complicated from an operational standpoint. (The circuit is simple.) Russ' suggestion of a cap cover on the positive post is a good one. Hope this information is of some use. Regards, Bob Johns, #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950277987.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Feb 11 07:28:38 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... I really like this idea ! Tom S #412 .... Lexington Ky. From: "alberg30" Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but still Assoc. members? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950282918.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 07:35:55 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:35:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] headstay diameter References: <002001bf743d$24cceca0$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A42C5A.BBD9C1A@idirect.com> From: John Birch Resent by request, forgot to delete Joe's provider's advertisment which was likely the culprit. Joe; Yes it is 1/4" wire, you can go 9/32" as Yves did - in forstays it is not a bad idea have a larger dia., depending on your plans. Headstays usually take the worst shock load and if something's going to give you'd rather have the mast falling overboard abeam than into the cockpit. Regardless what you go with, I strongly recommend Norseman or Staloc terminals. Cheers, John alberg30 wrote: What is the headstay diameter on the Alberg 30? Is it 1/4"? Joe #499"One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:29:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:29:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Cruising spinnakers and such Message-ID: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/9/00 5:55:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << rom: greg vandenberg That is the reasons I stopped to talk to the UK rep. I'm looking for a sail I can carry when on the wind in light air. If I can stay moving at 3 knots in 5... 6 mph true it will smooth out a lumpy lake. The 150% made from 5.75 dacron and with its sumbrella uv cover is difficult... a lot of weight at the clue. The first question the man asked was at what speed I stop sailing and start the engine. A good question. >> Hi Greg, these conditions you describe are what the drifter, a ripstop nylon oversize genny that does not hank on, was designed for. You will be amazed the force this light sail develops in light winds. Keeps the boat moving in the light summer winds. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950290190.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 09:45:45 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:45:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Battery Boxes - Why? Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi gang, Yes, this is yet another project we have to do on Stargazer eventualy-move the batteries. The previous owner put them in the stbd. cockpit locker, where the fuel tank had been before he moved that under the cockpit sole. With all that weight aft, Stargazer definitely squated. This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'f sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. in other words, "How and where are your batteries secured?" Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291145.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Fri Feb 11 10:28:11 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps This is a vital peice of the outfitting of an Alberg 30, and so as not to have to reinvent the wheel, I'm sure many of the members of the list would benefit from hearing from mates who have redone this with good installations. Stargazer #255 Seeing this posting made me think-- I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 11 11:06:15 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:06:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel Message-ID: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you ask. In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but I won't likely get to it anytime soon. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950295975.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Fri Feb 11 11:35:47 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:35:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <84.14e6f82.25d5b7a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A46490.279589DF@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders, et al; Until I raced the Chesapeake Crowd I had never sailed an A-30 with a tiller, Wind Rose came with a wheel, after I sold her I got to helm Harry Grigat's A-30 Dolc? Vita regularly as Harry preferred to trim, for as he said, "I hate staring at those woolly streamers on the jib." So a great friendship developed, as I like to mix it up and Harry to trim. BOTTOM LINE - If I'd known how nicely the boat handled with a tiller, I'd have deep sixed the wheel on Wind Rose. Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Regarding wheel conversion resources, the obvious choice is Edson. I > contacted them last year about converting to a wheel, and they have > everything you would need to do the conversion. In fact, they have designed > wheel conversions for other A30s -- it isn't really an off-the-shelf sort of > thing, although all the parts you will need are all manufactured in quantity > -- and they will share the A 30 schematics and parts lists with you if you > ask. > > In the end I didn't do the conversion. Wheels are awfully nice for a lot of > reasons, but I ultimately decided that the A30 responds well to a tiller and > that the money was better spent elsewhere. It's still on the wish list, but > I won't likely get to it anytime soon. > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 11 15:22:25 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:22:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> Message-ID: <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 11 09:57:05 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 In-Reply-To: <38A429F1.663EC749@prodigy.net> References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of >state, but still Assoc. members? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950291825.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 21:35:28 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:35:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] hull/deck Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 2/10/00 11:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: > > dan walker wrote: > can i remove one screw/bolt at a time > > and put bedding compound through the toe rail to seal the holes the > > bolts go through, or do i have to remove the whole toe toe rail to > > properly keep the water out. Dan, I didn't see your original post, so forgive me if this isn't relevant, but I know an A- 30 guy who took out each bolt and rebeddded and it was dry as bone (I sailed with him) for years until he sold the boat. I don't know who owns it now. And the former owner is not a member of the assn. I'll have to wait until I see him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950333728.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 11 22:41:16 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:41:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Everyone, I plan to sell my boat. I've found out that an illness I have will not permit my wife and me to cruise the Great Lakes as we planned. She is a 1967 Alberg 30, titled in Michigan as a 68. Hull number 251. The boat is FULLY equipt, and well maintained. Atomic 4 with rebuilt water pump, recent generator, she carries 50 pounds of oil pressure when warm. Dodger, double life lines, Swim ladder, Tiller Pilot, 6 sails, Spinnaker gear, traveler, two speed winches, steel cradle, and much , much more If you are looking for an Alberg, this is a good one. A fresh water boat, racing bottom with VC 17. Ready, to go any where on her bottom ( when launched), or to be put on a flat bed trailer in her cradle I'll talk price with anyone interested. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol,com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950337676.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 06:01:50 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <9f.1b191cc.25d6c1ce@aol.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Russ, I'm sorry to hear about circumstances that will keep you and your wife off of your boat. It must be a very hard thing indeed. I have been interested in the A30's for a time now and have done a little bit of research. I believe that an A30 would be the best boat for my wife, children and myself. I'd be interested to learn more about your vessel. Kindest regards, Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950364110.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:28:09 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, and others, Today is the Cruising seminar. Next weekend is Maintenance and the last one is Pot Pourri. The Maintenance seminar is going to be a question and answer session. This will be a great opportunity to learn more about your boats, if you can make it. If someone wants to donate a video camera and tripod to me, I'll tape it. :-) - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > What is the topic of this Saturday's February Seminar? Is it Racing or > Cruising? Newsletter says Racing, but handout from Annual dinner says > Cruising. > > And to confirm, next weekends is the Maintenance Seminar, right? > > Also, any chance someone is going to record this info? Anyone ever > thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of state, but > still Assoc. members? > > Anyone want to take turns with me? > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365689.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 12 06:30:12 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:30:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Maintenance Seminar questions Message-ID: <38A56E74.3B99E631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie If you have maintenance questions you'd like brought up at the seminar, leave them as a reply to this message. I'll try to bring them up and summarize the responses. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950365812.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Sat Feb 12 07:00:35 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <009101bf7569$f2ddc7e0$ea105dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Spring is just around the corner. Although I love ole' "Zevulun" and it has been the best boat in the world to learn to sail on, my 6 kids demand a larger boat. So, "Zevulun" is for sale as I have moved to an Alberg 35. If anyone is interested "Zevulun" is a structurally sound vessel that will need some cosmetic work, although not that much. I had great plans to do the cosmetics this summer. We made sure that all structural things were done, after that we couldn't quit sailing. I don't know how many days we went to the boat club with plans to spend the whole weekend spiffing-up the boat. Those with Alberg 30's understand that pretty much no matter the weather, sailing the boat all weekend beat out working on the boat every time. Even for a newbie such as myself, weather was rarely a problem on Lake Huron. I never did reef the sails. If anyone is interested, contact me (baileyje at voyager.net). There is a recent survey, 3 year old sails and a diesel that runs like a watch. $17,500 and I'll transport to most places out east for that price. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 12 07:14:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] This weekend's Feb A30 Seminar 2/12/00 References: <004c01bf743e$a7130860$f08c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38A578D1.5DF74B5@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Our Chesapeake based Association said they are looking for ways to reach out to their members in other areas of the country... This might be a way. Bob Johns wrote: > > From: Bob Johns > > Joe, > > Sounds like a great idea to me. Barbara and I couldn't make it down from > Long Island this year, although we did make the annual meeting. > > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > > Anyone ever thought of videotaping these seminars for those out of > >state, but still Assoc. members? > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950368468.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 12 23:15:38 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:15:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Boat for sale Message-ID: <7a.17eec56.25d7b41a@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Paul, If you send me a snail mail address, I'll send along a picture, and spec sheets that cover most of the equipment. Regards, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950426138.0 From soarrich at netlabs.net Sun Feb 13 12:02:22 2000 From: soarrich at netlabs.net (Moved by the wind.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Looking for 914 sailor. References: <84.147e27f.25d5a10e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38A70DCE.B154A242@netlabs.net> From: "Moved by the wind." Hi I'm a lurker with an A37. A sailor from 914 ac posted a message that he was looking to get time on the water and I deleted it by mistake. If it was on this list would someone be kind enough to forward it to me. Rich Border Marguerite Prunyi http://www.netlabs.net/hp/soarrich Those who pound their swords into plows will plow for those who did not. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950472142.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Feb 14 04:21:27 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:21:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Gord Laco re: Cruising Spinnakers and Such Message-ID: <38A7F344.16EAD1F3@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Gord, do you have any tips or suggestions for making the handling of a spinnaker simpler easier on the Alberg? Most of the time I am either single handed with an Autohelm or virtually single handed, i.e. someone aboard who doesn't know, can't know or doesn't want to know, anything about sailing. I have a spinnaker but have used it only in extremely light air. Bill Newman Marion Rose III #233 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950530887.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Feb 14 06:41:26 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:41:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? Gord KC426 "Surprise" ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Guy Lalonde Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get to your balsa core. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phipps To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel From: Jack Phipps I understand several on the list have converted from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm thinking about partnering with a current owner of an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We are thinking about converting it. What good kits are available? We are also trying to deside whether to install it ourselves or have it done. How straight forward is it? The one article I read made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, not exactly "straight forward". Thanks in advance. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Feb 14 07:55:10 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:55:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Rudder, propeller, etc. In-Reply-To: <38A56DF9.D6BEE94F@min.net> Message-ID: <000a01bf7703$df6d1b20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Thanks for the information on pulling a prop. It was item #1 on my Sunday list. There was enough clearance for the 13 inch prop to clear the rudder when the rudder is swung over as far as possible. Unfortunately my puller was a bit too short for the prop. After most of my oak blocks were reduced to splinters by tapping the prop vigorously I decided to remove the prop with the shaft. Disconnecting the flange from the transmission was easy, but it took the rest of the day (our days are short up here) to remove the coupling from the shaft. There was quite a bit of play between the Cutless bearing surface and the shaft. Eventually the shaft came out. Then I remembered we said it was easy to unscrew the rigid Cutless box from the rudder tube, and I said I can do that.... Unfortunately when I turned the box everything else turned. The only solution I could think of was to remove everything and make a bigger hole in the boat. The A30 manual shows the rudder tube bedded in sealant. Well, yes there is a lot of sealant. I removed about two cups of white-grey sealant so far, and I don't have all of it out yet. I'm hoping that once the sealant is gone I can remove the stuffing box flange, the flexible tube, the rudder tube and the Cutless fitting together. Once everything is out I can replace the bearing... I would think that when re-assembling I could align the box, tube, shaft and transmission from the aft end and then epoxy the tube to the hull, rather than shimming the motor mounts. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950543710.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:38:24 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:38:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] DOLCÉ VITA IS FOR SALE - Posted for a friend Message-ID: <38A83D8F.21ED12D3@idirect.com> From: John Birch Notice: Dolc? Vita is for sale. 1998 Great Lakes Champion Particulars: Alberg 30 Hull number 389, 1969 in good condition Awlgrip hull, white, smoke white decks (Gelcoat) in good condition. Atomic 4, compression good, oil pressure good - 45lb hot. 100 amp alternator with original working Motorola as spare. Spinnaker equipped, pole, winches. VHF LORAN Depth Speed Autohelm 1000+ Recent. Halyards led aft to winches and stoppers. Note: Mast Support Beam completely replaced with full length 1/2" thick aluminium vertical plate through bolted and sandwiched between laminated oak beams and epoxied - bullet proof, no movement, no sagging. Sails: North Main and #1 - Both Recent Additional Main and #1 - Original but very usable #2, #3 Spinnaker Winches: 2 Speed Primaries Spinnaker winches cabin top winches 2 anchors, nylon rode, chain leader Dodger Blue, Stainless Steel Frame Wilcox Crittenden Head Homestrand stove alcohol Cruise and race equipped And more ... Cradle, modern steel folding with adjustable pads. Canadian Registry, by name. In all respects, ready for sea. Asking: $16,000 US, $23,000 Canadian, Lying Wilson New York, Lake Ontario near Buffalo NY I have sailed this boat on a number of occasions and the owner has asked me to post this advertisement as he has no e-mail. Personally, I'd rather see her not sell as we've cruised and raced together for several years. The owner is a friend. Interested parties contact through this e-mail address Sunstone at idirect.com for more information and to arrange contact and viewing with the owner Harry Grigat (he travels frequently). Reasonable offers considered, no tire kickers please. All the above, as reported by the owner. Thank you, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 Sunstone at idirect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 09:55:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:55:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A8415D.7174C06E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Lalonde > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Guy Lalonde > > Jack. Mine came with a wheel so I can't comment on how > difficult it is to install. But if you find an A-30's > cockpit is small, it'll feel even smaller with a wheel. Also > the moisture readings on my cockpit floor (taken when > purchasing the boat) are quite high (I'll have to repair > that this spring), and I'm sure it is because the bedding > compound at the base of the pedestal has long reached its > useful life. So it can be a source of water infiltration if > you don't watch it carefully. Suggest you seal the edges of > the pedestal and screw holes in the cockpit floor with > epoxy, so if your bedding compound lets go water won't get > to your balsa core. Guy.Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phipps > To: 'alberg30 at onelist.com' > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel > From: Jack Phipps > I understand several on the list have converted > from tiller to wheel steering. Was it worth the > time and effort? Would you do it again? I'm > thinking about partnering with a current owner of > an Alburg 30. It is currently a tiller boat. We > are thinking about converting it. What good kits > are available? We are also trying to deside > whether to install it ourselves or have it done. > How straight forward is it? The one article I read > made it seem to be somewhat difficult, but also, > not exactly "straight forward".Thanks in > advance.Jack PhippsApplied Science Fiction > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailER.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailVL.gif Type: image/gif Size: 9609 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 14 10:07:18 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Reinventing the wheel References: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB40754CE@mercury.asf.com> <002101bf74e6$db38dc20$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> <005901bf76f9$930cff20$1800a8c0@bconnex.net> Message-ID: <38A84454.A3344664@idirect.com> From: John Birch Be aware the Alberg sails best with crew weight forward, the weight of the pedestal and skipper aft will not help her sailing characteristics and will contribute to hobby horsing. Cheers, John, N/B Please note I did not attach the adforce advertising to either of my e-mails (Dolce Vita) and forgot to check if Gord's contained any. 40k for a paragraph exceeds even my verbose reputation - now that should get a comment from Bob Kirk ; ) Gord Laco wrote: > From: "Gord Laco" > Hello Folkes, My 30 has a wheel... but as in most Whitby boats the > pedestal is in the front of the cockpit. The sheet tailers are always > bumping it, etc. A silly set up. This spring I'm moving it aft - > I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone done this before? GordKC426 > "Surprise" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zira at mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 17:09:57 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave References: <001f01becd7a$e6d0cb60$8f4e99ce@freeway.freeway.net> <378CD837.8E2A42E6@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38A8A765.ED7F3CDD@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > John... you can call Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboat and he will fabricate a new > one for $28.00. Call 1 800 486 7245. Also E-mail at > jopalmer at classicsailboat.com. This info came from the group about 18 months > ago. I found that the Tartan source was not valid anymore but it lead to Jo > Palmer who is wanting to be a source for out of date boat parts. I think he's > your man. Let me know if it works out. > Regards- Greg > > > John Bailey wrote: > > > > Help! My main halyard jumped the sheave and could not be freed from > > between the sheave and mast. Because I wanted to do some other work, > > I had the mast taken down. I found the sheave to in very poor shape. > > My halyard is wire and the wire really tore up the sheave over the > > years. I don't think it's worth trying to save, however, I've found > > that finding a 6 1/2 inch sheave is very difficult. I'm not going to > > be able to sail till I find somewhere to get a new sheave. Does > > anyone know where I can get one, and get it quick? Also, I would like > > to go to a rope halyard. Any thoughts on that? > > > > John Bailey > > "Zevulun" #33 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950576997.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 14:18:39 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:18:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Main Halyard Sheave Message-ID: <34.179b90b.25d9d93f@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, if your shive ( round pully part) is intact, take it to a machine shop and have them cut the groove to accept 3/8 line. I worked for me. Or, have any machine make it, its not a hard project. Solve problems like this close to home, makes it easier. Russ Pfeifer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950566719.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Mon Feb 14 19:07:31 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: <38A8C2F3.550A@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Hello All:This is the second time I've brought up this subject and am now ready to purchase a traveler system.I've got questions about the span between the cockpit seats,I guess I need to use hi-beam track to go across,4 ft.long,end caps,traveler kit.Is there any other companies other than harken and schaefer that manufacture travelers?If I use low profile track and bolt to deck just aft of cockpit,my boom end will not be directly over track and main sheet will lead aft,is this wise?According to spanning chart in harken catalog,hi profile beam can span 40 inches with 225 sq.ft. sail,the span between seats in cockpit is less than 40" I'm sure of that.Any imput will be appreciated. Dick "High Spirits" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950584051.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 14 21:56:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:56:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dick, at the aft of the cockpit is where mine is. I forget the make, but it has rollers. Harken is first class. True, it won't be a straight up pull,, but its close, and works well. Back there it is out of the way, and no one will trip over it. Buy the windward sheeting traveler while you're at it. It always trims from the high side, with one line. Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950594160.0 From dsail at gte.net Tue Feb 15 07:39:17 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hi again, well it is time for another question from one of those dumb newbies. we had some warmer weather and i was looking at my rudder. there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) showing through the fiberglass. is that normal, or do i need to sand down to bare fiberglass and glass over these pieces. dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 08:31:59 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:31:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and most of them need repair. Russ Pfeifer # 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950632319.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:12:55 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/14/00 5:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, zira at mindspring.com writes: << m: David Swanson Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave, and the retaining plates, and compression tube, and ss bolt. All were very nicely made. Keep trying to reach him; it's worth it. Somewhat disturbingly, I did notice he left the list a few weeks ago. Maybe he has moved on. Maybe a call to tartan yachts, in Ohio, which used to be the parent company of Joe's business,could help you. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950634775.0 From RLeach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 15 11:48:28 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:48:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, Just a quick note about Russ' suggestion: avoid using mat with epoxy unless you're absolutely sure it's compatible. Regular, run-of-the-mill mat is held together with a binder that is formulated to dissolve in polyester resin, but it will not dissolve in epoxy. This will prevent it from wetting out properly, thus limiting the strength of the lay-up. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Dan, on my boat, if you sanded all the fiberglass away, on the rudder, you > > would find wood. Suggest you sand it to clean it up, use epoxy and cloth, > > and perhaps light mat, to build the surface back up, then sand and fair it > > again. My rudder is all covered, and you can't even see the metal straps > that hold the rudder on I have seen boats with the bare wood rudders, and > > most of them need repair. > Russ Pfeifer # 251 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950644108.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 15 06:52:02 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:02 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] wheel steering References: <950602560.28985@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38A96812.EBA4002D@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I installed a wheel on my A-30 a year ago and am very happy with it with one caveat: All kinds of experts advised not to put the wheel too far aft. Now that it is in - and nearly impossible to move - I wish I had installed it about six inches farther aft - leaving just enough room to stand. It is now just too far forward for the helmsman to sit on the traveler so I had to make a temporary seat that spans the cockpit. Also, it takes up too much room in the cockpit. Be better a little more aft. I installed a small manhole (about 12 inches diameter) between the pedestal and the rudderpost to allow access to the sheaves. I do not see how you install it without that access. I already had an 18 x 18 access hatch forward in the cockpit sole over the engine. Also bought a small fiberglass enclosure I mounted on the pedestal for the depth & speed instruments and the autopilot head. I really like that setup. I bought a lot of used and new but "surplus" bits and pieces, as the Edson stuff is super-expensive. Look in the various used boat gear shops before you buy everything new, but be sure what you are buying, as I did get a couple of things that did not fit. Some I returned and some I sold on e-Bay. I am a determined do-it-yourselfer but this job was too big for me. It's really tough to get at under the cockpit; also the rudder had to be pulled to install the stuffingbox. It's a yard job. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950626322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 12:32:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:32:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] main traveler system Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/15/00 12:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Great improvement. You will be amazed at how much it improves sail trim. You will be able to trim the boom on centerline in light air, or even a little to windward of that for more weather helm. Note I said 'a little', and ease the sail down without losing overall trim. Russ 251 >> I second. We had the original triangle sheeting arrangement on Stargazer when we bought her, and then installed the Harken complete traveler system; central car, end blocks, and cam cleats, on the aft deck, just aft of the cockpit. Tremendous difference. In light air, as Russ describes, great sail shape control; in heavy air, tremendous ease in dropping the traveler to leeward,and then picking it back up in lulls. Makes it a usable tool. The question we had when we did the installation was; should we cut a teak 'spacer' to go under the traveler track to compensate for the crown in the deck, so the traveler remains straight, or just mount the traveler to the deck, following the crown. For ease of installation, we took the second option. The 'spacer' advocates beleive, and rightly so, that if the traveler follows the crown of the deck, when you lower the traveler car to leeward, you are tightening the sheet by the height of the crown. How significant this is is the question. Maybe we can have some input from the membership here. I know on some Finns, the 14'9" centerboarder, the camber of the traveler is actualy reversed; significantly higher at its outboard ends, to allow the main leech to open when the traveler is dropped to leeward in high winds. (uh oh....sounds like I'm starting another thread here. :) ) Lee Stargazer #2255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950646747.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Feb 15 15:23:37 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsheet Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Who do I call to put an ad in the Mainsheet? Am I too late for the next issue? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950657017.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:47:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] rudders Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and did it. That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off sometime soon. Regards Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950680063.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Wed Feb 16 02:06:11 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:06:11 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler References: <950689029.30289@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38AA7692.C9076F8B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Do I understand from the recent thread that a main sheet traveler is not original equipment? Our boat, # 275, had one installed when we bought it, neat job, looked original. It follows the crown, but gives no trouble on that account. Gordon White Brigadoon II a --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950695571.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Feb 16 09:44:13 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:44:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] main sheet traveler Message-ID: <20.22a544e.25dc3bed@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Gordon , I must admit when I bought my boat it had a "traveler". A peice of genoa track, with two slides that locked down to control the side to side movement. You can figure that it was impossiple to adjust when it had a load on it. It also still had a verticle cleat below it, that thing was always banging my rudder and knocking off varnish They both went. I installed a Nicro system, which isn't bad, but I am thinking about a Harken windward sheeting system to make things faster and easier. The original reminded me of my first boat, an old Star, and the bronze rod traveler that she had. Just one of many, many , improvements. Russ Ca Va --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950723053.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 17:27:14 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:27:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: Message-ID: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead and > did it. > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall off > sometime soon. > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950750834.0 From veggie at ibx.net Wed Feb 16 17:49:10 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:49:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <001801bf78e6$1edeeac0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: <001c01bf78e9$303117a0$dd752cd0@gary> From: "Gary" Its probably best and easier to work with a 7 or 7.5 oz cloth and build up layers. Mat is harder to wet out with epoxy and wont be as strong as the cloth. Mat is rarely used with epoxy. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Lalonde To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950752150.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX-S Sanitation Device Message-ID: <000a01bf7894$604af000$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Seems I recall someone on this list was recently looking for some info on the Mansfield Marine Sanitation Device, model TDX-S. Well, going through my things I found an "Owner's Manual" for it. I ripped mine out of the boat about 2 years ago, so I don't need the manual anymore. So whoever it was that was looking for this info, the manual is yours if you want. Just let me know and I'll mail it out. Guy. Cyrena #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Wed Feb 16 19:49:04 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:04 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Guy, I have never used mat with epoxy. All of the literature that I've come across talks of cloth, though I wouldn't rule out woven roving. I suppose that if you're looking high build then heavier cloth is the way to go. I think part of the beauty of using mat with polyester is that is promotes a good bond between the alternate layers of cloth or roving. But the bonding characteristics of epoxy are so far superior to polyester that it's a moot point. Another rule to remember: epoxy will bond very well to polyester, but not vice-versa! That includes gel-coat. If you want to gel-coat over a repair do not use epoxy, the gel-coat will not adhere. Fortunately for me, every surface aboard Sugar Magnolia has been painted (some surfaces many, many times), so matching gel-coat (which I've found to be very difficult) is unnecessary and I use epoxy for most repairs and small projects. In my case, the only reason to use polyester is cost. For example, for my soon-to-be-started seahood project, there is enough material involved that epoxy would make the project substantially more expensive, so polyester with cloth, mat and a foam core is how I'm going to go. There, that's probably worth about 2 cents, huh? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: Guy Lalonde[SMTP:lalondegc at videotron.ca] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:27 PM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > > From: Guy Lalonde > > Is there a glass matt that is compatible with epoxy ? I haven't found any > up my way. The catalogs I've seen all say compatible with polyester resin > (they don't mention anything about epoxy). When you ask a salesperson, > they > all say "Oh yeah, of course". Not convincing to me. > > If there is no such thing as epoxy compatible glass matt, what would you > use > instead if you wanted to stick with epoxy ? > > Guy > Cyrena #466 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:47 AM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] rudders > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > Thanks Rich, I didn't know that about matt and epoxy, I just went ahead > and > > did it. > > That repair was about 3 years ago, so I'll start looking for it to > fall > off > > sometime soon. > > > > Regards Russ Pfeiffer > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > > Click > Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click > Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950759344.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Thu Feb 17 06:29:01 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" To the group: I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Thu Feb 17 07:15:29 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001601bf7953$563dcb40$078c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One >Less Traveled" Joe, I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the weather. Much better than wood IMHO. I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the starter burned out. The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a little. The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would suggest that you wire the new one this way. I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) If I can give you any more information, let me know. Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950800529.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Thu Feb 17 10:15:23 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mansfield TDX Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." Guy- I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the address in the header. My snail mail address is Ross Horton 14493 Sentry Road Nokesville, Virginia 20181 Thanks for the help. Ross G. Horton Delphi #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950811323.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 17 19:42:06 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back together it looked so much better. Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. Always something to do on a boat. Russ 251 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950845326.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Feb 18 07:05:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:05:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: Message-ID: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Bob and Russ: Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful. Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course spruce it up. My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit. If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. Also for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and model you used to replace yours? Thanks for your comments: Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Johns To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950886351.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 18 06:17:35 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Bob; I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not sure of the gauge. Charles Haggart # 150 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950883455.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Feb 18 08:31:14 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 18 Feb 2000 08:31:14 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <20000218163114.29970.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net I hate adding hearsay, but I have heard it said that instrument panels (especially in gasoline-engine powered boats) should be metal... and grounded. Kevin Blanc #254, Terrapin On Fri, 18 February 2000, "alberg30" wrote: > > > From: > "alberg30" >

> > Bob and Russ:
>
> Thanks for comments on the cockpit instrument panel. Your notes are helpful.
> Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did
> make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a
> protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out
> of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary.
>
> I like the idea of painted Lexan, or even refinishing the panel as is. I
> already have enough wood to take care of in various parts of the boat. My
> main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a gasket of
> some sort?--or just caulking?), protect the throttle knob, and of course
> spruce it up.? My reasoning, I'm going to be painting the deck and all my
> wood is beautiful, may as well finish out the cockpit.
>
> If no one has found a suitable wiring harness, I think I'll run my own
> wires, through a pvc conduit attached under the cockpit near the gas tank
> down in the vicinity a bus bar that liaisons with my main elect panel and
> engine. Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used
> stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe
> thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time.
>
> Also? for Russ, my volt meter is also burned out. Do you recall the make and
> model you used to replace yours?
>
> Thanks for your comments:
>
> Joe #499
> "One Less Traveled"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Johns
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [alberg30] main wiring harness
>
>
> > From: Bob Johns
> >
> >
> > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with? a wood panel? My
> > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and? certainly
> > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to
> > >hell. Options for replacing this??? Thanks in advance:?? Joe #499 "One
> > >Less Traveled"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The
> cockpit
> > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new
> > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted
> > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the
> > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the
> > weather. Much better than wood IMHO.
> >
> > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on
> > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained
> > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a
> > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the
> > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the? ignition
> > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the
> > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that
> the
> > starter burned out.
> >
> > The panel? has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is
> > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded
> scale
> > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each
> > other, and I had? to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a
> > little.
> >
> > The running? light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first
> > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light
> or
> > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I
> > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would
> > suggest that you wire the new one this way.
> >
> > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical
> > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and
> > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for
> > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!)
> >
> > If I can give? you any more information, let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent
> > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards
> > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the
> > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative1SR ">Click
> Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950891474.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 10:38:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:38:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Joe, no I don't recall the brand, but it was a cheapie, with a plastic face inside that I was able to trim with a sissors Cost mabye 5, .6 bucks. In my message I said I used a little caulk when I put the thick plastic and metal surround back on the instrument panel. Perhaps you didn't under stand my comments about the wood surround. In the cockpit, around the instrument panel, and the switches,there is a wood piece about 1 1/2 inch deep, across the top, and extending down each side. This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, and protects the front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make it out of teak, but you could do it yourself, and even use another wood. Does that help? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950899080.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:02:48 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:02:48 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950900568.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 11:22:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:22:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, a 16 footer is longer than you need. The class legal pole is 10.5 ft. That works well for up to a 135% A 12 ft pole whould do the trick. Remember that the sail has some curve, and won't be flat You could even use the standard pole. I had a 12 1/2 footer made up for a class change,and and took a 3 second a mile penalty. I wouldn't even bother with one bigger than that, it starts to get hard to handle. If you build one, make it as light as you can, pretend you are on a pitching foredeck, trying to use a 16 footer. MHO Russ 25 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950901771.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:29:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> References: Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Joe, Kevin, Charlie: >Bob, you mentioned that you rewired the panel; did you use a harness or did >make up the wires by yourself? On the back of the panel, did you install a >protective cover? What was it made of? I was thinking of fabricating one out >of light fiberglass, but maybe its not necessary. I made up a harness by running the wires in a group and then using a plastic spiral device that bundles them together neatly but which can be opened up to add or remove wires. I don't remember what it is called, but I believe that I got them from West. On the long runs such as wiring from the main panel to the head and forward I used flexible plastic tubing and pulled the wires through two or three at a time. This was harder than I thought it would be (the tubing is 12 or 15 feet long) and I found that I could only get half as many wires as I thought I would. I did not install a protective cover but I think that it is a good idea. The only thing, is that it should be easily removable - maybe with just two wing nuts. Or hlnged. It might be a good idea to have some vents in the cover using it primarily to physically protect the back of the instruments. If it was too waterproof it might cause condensation problems with the instruments. >My main concern is to waterproof the panel slightly (Have you tried a >gasket of >some sort? I didn't try to seal the panel - just bolted it in place. The instruments are all waterproof. Kevin, I didn't run into a requirement or recommendation that the engine panel should be metal. You may well be right, and if so, I missed it. All of my engine instruments are grounded by way of the wiring returns and I believe that the only metal exposed on each instrument is the terminals. I can visualize a situation where a wire getting loose from it's terminal could cause a spark by hitting a grounded metal panel. (Of course a wire getting loose could also spark if it hit another terminal.) The reason household appliances are grounded is that a malfunction in the appliance will blow a breaker instead of making the appliance case electrically hot. (There will probably be a spark when the malfunction occurs and the breaker blows.) Anyone else have any input on a need for grounded metal engine panels? I used tinned wire from West - I think that the brand was 'Ancor' or a similar name. As far as wire sizes, Charles, the following will give you a general idea: Engine instruments: #16. Starter sw & solenoid: #14. Coil: #16. Blower: #12. Oil and Temp alarms: #18. Alternator field: #14. Bow light: #14. Stern light: #14. Steaming light: #14 to the mast; #16 to light the engine instruments. Anchor light: #14. Spreader lights: #12. Cabin lights: #14 but I ran individual pairs of wires to each fixture. Also each side of the boat is on a different breaker. Radar: #14. Knotmeter: #18. Loran: #18. Depth Sounder: #18. This may be too conservative for some people, especially separate returns and the individual pairs of wires to each light fixture. On the other hand, there is no interaction between lights. (Turning the 25 watt light in the head used to cause the cabin lights to flicker.) The long runs have heavier gauge wire than a short run carrying the same current. I used color coded wires, and, insofar as possible, followed the recommended marine color codes. I used a lot of terminal boards so that I can break and cross-connect any circuits. (I once had a short in the mast to the steaming light blow the fuse that the running lights were on while I was powering in the Annasquam River at night in the rain. I was able to go to the terminal board in the head that feeds the mast lights and lift the steaming light wire which stopped the fuse blowing, and then connect the anchor light to the steaming light terminal to temporarily take the place of the steaming light.) There is an argument against using many terminal boards: The extra connections could in themselves cause malfunctions. I've had no problems in the five years that the boat was rewired, and I do feel that any problem that may occur can be isolated readily because of the terminal boards. At the terminal boards each lug is marked with the terminal number. I couldn't find sleeves that could be marked, but I did find a set of paper stick-on markers. To make them permanent I covered the markers with transparent heat shrink tubing. I used a database program in my desktop computer to design and document the boat wiring. I carry a folder on the boat that has the wiring information printed out in different groups. The first group is the complete list of wires arranged by signal name. Another group has all the information relating to the cabin lighting on the port side of the boat. Another the starboard side. Another the mast wiring. Similarly for the cockpit, lazzarette, battery circuits, etc. Another shows every terminal board in the boat and the wiring to each. The printouts list color, wire size, from, to, estimated current, group, and so on. (I had set up a field in the database to assign each wire to a group.) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950909368.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Feb 18 16:37:30 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <000001bf7a1a$e85535a0$8ee9fea9@black-point> Message-ID: <004801bf7a71$8119ad60$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Charles, try using this formula to determine wire gauge. CM = ( I multiplied by L multiplied by 10.75 ) divided by 0.36, divide it by 0.72 instead for a 24 volt system I = current, so if each bulb (or whatever) draws 1 amp and you have 3 bulbs then I = 3 L = actual length of wire run (in feet) from the battery AND back ( NOT straight line distance ) The answer (CM) will be in circular mills, use the chart below to convert that to wire gauge (AWG, not SAE). If your answer is between two values go down to the next bigger wire (the smaller the gauge number the bigger the wire). If your answer is 18 gauge, it is considered too fragile for boat use, move up to 16 gauge. (I hope this chart shows up OK through e-mail, I'm using Rich Text HTML, if not my apologies) CM AWG 1,620 18 2,580 16 4,110 14 6,530 12 10,380 10 16,510 8 26,240 6 41,740 4 66,360 2 83,690 1 105,600 0 133,100 00 167,800 000 211,600 0000 Cheers, Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Haggart To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] main wiring harness > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Bob; > I plan to rewire this winter. What gauge of wire did you use for the light? > i.e.. nav. steaming, cabin. I will use marine grade tinned wire but I'm not > sure of the gauge. > > Charles Haggart # 150 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at ameritech.net Fri Feb 18 16:59:02 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:59:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: Message-ID: <38ADEAD4.500FB013@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950921942.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Feb 18 17:02:47 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:02:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length Message-ID: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 7:53:23 PM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << We use a heavy duty telescoping pole for our whisker pole and for poling out the cruising spinnaker. I love it! Some will say its not up to it but neither am I when the wind pipes up to such a condition as to make it unsafe to use this stile of fabrication. In light air... its great. >> I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? Thanks for the advice! Sanders McNew WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950922167.0 From jopalmer at classicsailboat.com Fri Feb 18 18:49:09 2000 From: jopalmer at classicsailboat.com (Joseph Palmer) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:49:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe Message-ID: From: "Joseph Palmer" --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950928549.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in bulk. There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to glass cloth. The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over time and I might as well use the same material. The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it needs replacing. - George P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This item's number is: 37052 -2VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From gdinwiddie at mail.min.net Fri Feb 18 19:14:14 2000 From: gdinwiddie at mail.min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <001d01bf7a21$a6233d60$6e8d6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> From: "George Dinwiddie" The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. - George > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > ------------------------------------------------- The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, those hours spent in sailing. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930054.0 From veggie at ibx.net Fri Feb 18 19:20:13 2000 From: veggie at ibx.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy References: <200002190311.WAA15989@min.net> Message-ID: <001201bf7a88$3d62f6a0$563ac998@gary> From: "Gary" Your absolutly right, however i think he was talking about covering a rudder and 1 or 2 layers of cloth and a coat or two over that with epoxy would do the trick just fine. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Dinwiddie To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > There is matt designed for use with epoxy. I've seen ordinary > looking matt in boat stores that said, on the package, that it was > suitable for epoxy. Of course, buying glass in plastic packages is > a very expensive way to buy it. I've not seen this available in > bulk. > > There's also a product called stitch-mat which is matt sewn to > glass cloth. > > The reason for using matt is that it fills the gaps. Whether > you're using polyester or epoxy, the laminate is stronger when it > has the minimum amount of resin needed to bond it together. That's > why the pros all use vacuum-bagging these days. > > I use epoxy for small repairs, especially for quick-and-dirty ones > where I need the adhesive power. But for bigger jobs, I use > polyester resin. It's not only cheaper, but I think it's probably > easier for an amateur to use. You can easily vary the cure time, > for one thing. Epoxy loses desirable characteristics very fast if > you do not mix the right ratio. I was also advised by a very good > pro that polyester is easier to wet out. In any event, I figure > that the polyester used to build the boat has done very well over > time and I might as well use the same material. > > The balsa, on the other hand, has suffered from neglect and > moisture. That's why I'm replacing it with klegecell wherever it > needs replacing. > > - George > > P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > NITRILE GLOVES, EX-LARGE (PACK OF 100) - Low Internet Price $7.99! > Better than latex for resisting chemical solvents and oils. This > item's number is: 37052 -2VGA > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/t/h.taf?acct=2001327&c=1 > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950930413.0 From bobjns at nais.com Fri Feb 18 13:40:07 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: <37.18f9680.25deeb88@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns >This keeps the crews' terrible feet off the choke handle, and switches, >and protects the >front glass, (plastic) part too I had a wood shop make >it out of teak, but you could do it >yourself, and even use another wood. Russ, That sounds like a great idea. It always shakes me up when someone bumps the throttle closed with his foot because my first reaction is: "what's wrong with the engine?". I think that you said that the wood projects into the cockpit 1 1/2 inches. Have I got that right? Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950910007.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 18 23:17:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:17:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Right, Mine is just around the instrument panel and switches. That throtle is just too sensitive. I thought about installing a Morse unit, much better, but the trouble and expense isn't worth it. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950944664.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Feb 19 05:47:29 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:47:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them whenever they get sticky. >> What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950968049.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:26:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:26:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <38AEA81E.5B5589F8@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, To unsubscribe, send an email to alberg30-unsubscribe at ONElist.com - George Joseph Palmer wrote: > > From: "Joseph Palmer" > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950970398.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:41:08 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mail order (was: Fiberglass matt & epoxy) References: <33.187313c.25dff8f1@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEAB84.F8642BAB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie I have mixed feelings about Harbor Freight. They're definitely a low-cost operation. You can get some great deals from them, but you have to watch what you're getting, too. And they're often out of stock on something you want. And they're slow to ship. All in all, they're worth dealing with, but they can be a bit frustrating, too. They seem to be related to JC Whitney and to Sportsman's Guide catalogs. For fiberglass materials, I like Fiberglass Coatings, Inc. in Florida. They're a first-class outfit. Quick and efficient. Of course, this costs money and, while they're reasonably priced, you don't find the kind of steals that you do at a place like Harbor Freight. Anyway, I stocked up on several hundred nitrile gloves the last time they went on sale. I've thought about the 4" grinder for under $20. My good DeWalt is taking a beating with the fiberglass dust. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/18/00 10:14:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gdinwiddie at mail.min.net writes: > > << P.S. I just got a notice that Harbor Freight has nitrile gloves on > sale. These are the gloves I use for glasswork. They hold up much > better than latex and, at 8 cents apiece, I can change them > whenever they get sticky. > > >> > What would we do without Harbor Freight? :) That black Ushanka hat in the > catalogue is the warmest hat I have ever had. > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards > Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Shabang.com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang.com FREE eStores. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950971268.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Feb 19 06:57:27 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:57:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) References: Message-ID: <38AEAF57.51DE08A6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, One thing to consider about whisker poles: When the air is light, there is very little pressure on the sail. Therefore, any chop tends to make the sail bounce up and down. I found that this reduced the usefulness of the sail and, periodically, caused the whisker pole to jump off the genoa sheet. Ultimately, I gave up using the whisker pole and don't even carry it on the boat anymore. I use the spinnaker pole, instead, and rig it with uphaul and downhaul just like I would for the spinnaker. While the spinnaker pole is shorter and doesn't give the same projection, the stability more than makes up for it in terms of wind catching ability. The more relaxed sailing is an added benefit. I'm not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > Quick question: Would a 16 foot whisker pole be long enough to pole out a > 150 genoa on an A30 running downwind? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950972247.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:29:20 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:29:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole length References: <15.152a4b1.25df45b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEB6CE.E81867B4@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg And when it used at the 12 ft lenght it has 3 tube thickness working for you. Strong as any spinnaker pole... maybe more. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > I've located a Forespar pole in slightly used condition, telescopes from 7 to > 16 feet, for $150, which seems about $100 less than the catalogue price. > Should I buy? I am assuming from Lee's post that it would work for the > genoa, since he said the pole should be about 12 feet. Would 16 feet be long > enough to pole out the cruising spinnaker as well? > > Thanks for the advice! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF # 297 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950974160.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sat Feb 19 07:46:28 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:46:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave References: <6f.12f4336.25dae317@aol.com> Message-ID: <38AEBAD0.4BB64F3B@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I never did order a sheave... i think I have his hard line number... YUP! PS: CLASSIC SAILBOAT JO PALMER 1 800 486 7245 E-MAIL: JOPALMER at CLASSICSAILBOAT.COM (SOURCE FOR FOR MAST HEAD SHEAVE ) Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 950975188.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sat Feb 19 15:37:27 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:37:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <200002190311.WAA15986@min.net> Message-ID: <38AF2937.D22B26C4@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa In rewiring Carina Vela we used tinned 14gauge wire throughout the entire boat, we are on year three and haven't had any issues.. Stephen Sousa #114 George Dinwiddie wrote: > From: "George Dinwiddie" > > The marine grade tinned wire is stranded, and tinned one strand at > a time. Don't use solid wire on a boat. > > - George > > > Did you guys use tined wire for rewiring? I have previously used > > stranded copper in some applications and not noticed any problems. But maybe > > thats a time thing.--Just a matter of time. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span, > those hours spent in sailing. > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Alberg30 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951010642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951003447.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Feb 19 15:14:40 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:14:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> From: Jim Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. 1. Does anyone have one for sale? 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read and maybe something like "South Wind"? 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? 4. What are good alternatives? Thank You for any contribution! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951002080.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 19 15:09:31 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:09:31 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf7b2e$62102300$e67afea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Thanks for the detailed reply on the wiring Bob, I'll follow your advice. Charles Haggart # 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951020276/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951001771.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sat Feb 19 20:36:22 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim:Just reinstalled mast on my boat yesterday after complete workover.I had one of those wire halyard winches that had jumped the sheave three feet trom top of mast,well that winch is history,stainless bolts in aluminum would not move even with impact screwdriver,cut the winch into pieces,installed new sheave for rope halyard and new winch for main.My legs are killing me right now,today climbed straight up that mast on those folding ABI mast steps to finish rigging halyards and checked all new lights all ok.Been a while since I've done that much climbing,and to make things a bit more tougher,quit smoking two months ago and I gained 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much happier with this all rope halyard,even the head sail was half cable and half rope,thats been changed too.Hopefully now when I turn that main halyard loose that sail is coming down free fall. Dick "High Spirits" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951021471/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951021382.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 06:20:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Jim, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and cut your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist friend cut the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You can get some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very much at all. For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at it, clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would hardly move when I bought the boat. You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib halyard and replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price to pay for the improved performance and safety. I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give it away. Russ Pfeiffer # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951056423/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951056417.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sun Feb 20 07:33:04 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38AF6F46.1A5C@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <38B00914.53EB3F4@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... Congratulations on quitting smoking ... I did this myself more than 20 years ago and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You can spend all of that cigarette money on your sailboat and should live longer to enjoy it! Tom S A30 #412 Dick Filinich wrote: ....quit smoking two months ago and I gained > 20 lbs.I haven't been sailing for very long but I know I'll be much > happier with this all rope halyard ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951060815/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951060784.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Feb 20 07:40:41 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Jim, > > The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a > > paperweight. > Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. > You must > be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to > replace the > shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. > The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken strands that stick out and > cut > your hand, or another sail. I removed the shive, had a machinist > friend cut > the groove bigger, to 3/8 size, and use 3/8 rope for my halyard. You > can get > some great, very low stretch line these days, that won't stretch very > much at > all. > For this operation, you will have to have the mast down. While you at > it, > clean and lube the shiv. Mine was corroded and dirty, and would > hardly move > when I bought the boat. > You may have noticed that Americas cup boats use line for everything. > The wire halyard is 1960 technology. Get a new block for the jib > halyard and > replace that too, if it's still wire/rope splice.... > You will have to buy a new winch for the main halyard. A small price > to pay > for the improved performance and safety. > I have a reel halyard winch in my garage, no one wants it, can't give > it away. > > Russ Pfeiffer # 251 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail43.gif Type: image/gif Size: 10718 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:04:37 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch, Reel Halyard - REAL DANGER! References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B01EA3.3893A884@idirect.com> Jim; The concept was flawed from the outset and Sunstone came with one. When June was adjusting the main halyard the brake failed and the handle spun spitting her sunglasses in two and mildly fracturing the bridge of her nose - she was very lucky. We removed the winch that Fall and replaced it with a self tailer, an indulgence to be sure. We elected to stay with new wire to rope tailed halyards for the superior stretch control and so the tail starts about a foot above the winch when hoisted and we went with a larger diameter to compensate for splice weakness concerns - that was 4 years ago and we are happy with the arrangement. Until then, carefully crank down your main and if the handle starts to free wheel, resist the temptation to stop it as there is enough momentum with a falling sail transmitted into the winch to break your arm, or jaw or whatever - best you make it a coffee table conversation piece. Read "The Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics Of Offshore Yachts" edited by John Rousmeniere et al, for all the reasons reel winches are bad and to get some other good pointers on upgrading your fine ship. Yes she is a good offshore boat with a few minor modifications. Increase your chainplate bolt size to from 1/4" machine screws to 5/16 - 3/8 ths diameter SS shanked hex bolts as a start, all of them. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Sun Feb 20 09:16:39 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:16:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? Message-ID: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or transmission to stop it? Thanks, John, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:14:20 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38B00AF5.E0F8535B@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B02EFC.5CE22289@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Jim, The issue of a wire halyard and the issue of a reel winch are really two different things. Using wire, or a wire-rope combination, isn't necessarily bad, though the comments about meathooks and low-stretch line are true. A wire halyard is a maintenance issue, not safety. A reel halyard winch is a safety issue. The problem is that the handle is always connected. If the halyard gets away, that handle can do a lot of damage. I'd get rid of it. There's lots of variations in halyard winch setups. The boats were delivered any way the buyer wanted them. You generally find zero, one or two winches mounted on the mast. I've got one. I like having the main halyard at the mast, because I've got to go up there for reefing, anyway. This way I can reef single-handedly. I used to have the main halyard led aft, and it wasn't as convenient. I like having the jib halyard led aft. That's a good place to be when you're raising the jib, so you can tend to the sheets. And, if you rig a downhaul, you can drop the jib from the cockpit if things get really rough. - George Jim wrote: > > I thank you for your comments. I didn't like it at first glance but > figured I just didn't understand it the whys and wherefores. I thought > the one saving point was that it allowed a single handed sailor to > raise an lower the main easily. Aside from the broken strands with > meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous > happenings...for instances what happens when you release the > brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951070282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951070460.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 10:29:03 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:29:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] How to stop the Advertisment trailers in my email to the list? References: <38B02175.C17E0210@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38B0326F.929215AF@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie John The emails are the price of not paying for a mailing list. You can stop a lot of advertising banners, both in these emails and on the web, with the JunkBuster proxy. See www.junkbuster.com for more details. - George John Birch wrote: > > Can ayone tell me why these obnoxious advertisments appear at the > bottom of my e-mails to the group as I am not adding them? > Even better is there somthing I can encode in my e-mail settings or > transmission to stop it? > Thanks, > John, Sunstone KC-65 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951071178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951071343.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 13:34:51 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:34:51 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? Message-ID: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please excuse.. Which winches are bad? Is a reel winch the bronze type that originally came with the A30? You stick a flat handle in a slot in the top of the winch, it clicks into place, and you crank it. They're monsters. Or is a reel winch something else. What is this "brake" I hear people talking about. I have the old bronze winches in the cockpit, and one on the mast. I also have single speed newer winches that I scavenged,installed as seconds in the cockpit and on the mast, and on the cabin roof. I like the bronze, but I don't want a busted arm or broken jaw. Should I stop using these? They have been great in the past, and I never (repeat NEVER) leave the handles installed. Mostly because they're so big they get in the way. Thanks; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Feb 20 13:12:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bad winches? References: <003801bf7bea$528254a0$8a8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B058CF.DBF3931F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, A reel winch is a winch that winds the entire tail onto the drum, like the winch commonly found on a boat trailer. - George > Uh-oh...I may have come into this conversation late. So please > excuse.. > > Which winches are bad? ... Or is > a reel winch something else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/4/_/_/_/951081278/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951081167.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:04:43 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:04:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has a removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. Jim wrote: > > From: Jim > > Omniscient Hull #259 , recently purchased out of a Toledo Marina, has > been undergoing some refurbishing. Todays questions relate to the > Mainsail winch....rigged to raise a wire Halyard. > 1. Does anyone have one for sale? > 2. Who made the winch originally.....the stamping is impossible to read > and maybe something like "South Wind"? > 3. Do the owners who sail with these wire winches like them? > 4. What are good alternatives? > Thank You for any contribution! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951015830/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/_/_/951104563/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095083.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Sun Feb 20 17:17:50 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] main wiring harness References: <36.244e77e.25de198e@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B09237.81451942@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg I've been watching this thread with interest. I relate to many of the woes. My solution was to remove the gages from their present location, repair the hole and install new instruments at the rear of the cockpit behind the tiller. Never a problem with visibility or a misplaced foot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951106595/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951095870.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sun Feb 20 18:10:15 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:10:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! Message-ID: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I forget who mentioned it, but when I asked what to use as a rub strake for my dingy renovation project, someone suggested old fire hose. Well they were right on the money. While a commercial rubber rubstrake might run between $60-100, fire hose was free for the asking. And it looks quite salty when attached with ssteel screws. I managed to get 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! Well #499's dingy restoration is complete. Chalk up another successful winter project. You can see a couple of pics at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.html Thanks again for the fire hose suggestion! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" PS--Still working on the hard dodger. Waiting for a weather break to try on a cardboard pattern. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 20 22:37:56 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't have time to take the handle out! Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951115076.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 05:57:21 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:57:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch In-Reply-To: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Hi Jim, & List: During all of this discussion I haven't seen this question asked: Why do you need a main halyard winch in the first place? You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if not.) What I mean is to take a turn around the cleat with the halyard tight and then pull the halyard sideways. This provides a mechanical advantage that raises the sail the remaining distance. Then the downhaul can be used to adjust the tension in the luff of the mainsail. Am I missing something here? Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951141422/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951141441.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 21 06:04:49 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:04:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From addvalue at zeuter.com Mon Feb 21 06:44:55 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:44:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dinghy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B14F67.240F4240@zeuter.com> Hi, Joe! What a great job! The dinghy looks like new. Lovely. You must be pleased. One of our club members is a fire chief. Think I'll have a chat with him. Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca > rub strake > 50 feet of nearly new fire hose, FREE! > pics at:http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/rf.htmlJoe #499"One > Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristan at one.net Mon Feb 21 07:27:00 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B114FA.E98DFEF6@one.net> From: Scott Wallace After sanding with 220 sandpaper, I use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe clean after vacuum cleaning the dust up. Then I mix polyurethane GLOSS varnish with about 2/3 varnish, 1/3 mineral spirits and get this first coat down...it soaks in wll and provides a "grip" for the next few coats...I then apply about four to six coats, lightly sanding with 220 between coats...If you want a semi-gloss finish you can rub the final coat with a light 220 sanding followed by a rubbing with 000 steel wool, then get up all residue since the steel wool leavings will leave ugly rust stains where ever they are... I prefer the gloss since it wears well and looks good. Scott dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" hello all,this is not a > very technical question, but your advice so far has been > great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak > sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish > everywhere else, but am wondering about the > maintenance/safety issue for the sole.all comments > welcomedanrascal #145 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951146824/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951146820.0 From bobjns at nais.com Mon Feb 21 08:12:39 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole In-Reply-To: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns > From: >"dan walker" > >hello all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far >has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole >after sanding. Dan: If you are talking about the teak sole below decks, you should be aware that, in our boat at least, the sole seems to be a teak veneer. In the area of the galley we have worn it to the glue in several spots. On our boat, the lazarette and main hatches were laminated teak, not a veneer. When the top layer wore so that the glue started to show, I could sand through the worn teak and glue and expose a fresh layer of teak. However, I think that the sole is one layer of teak on plywood, so you should be careful not to do much sanding. We didn't varnish the sole, just oiled it. (The varnish might give the teak better resistance to wear.) Regards, Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/_/_/951149734/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951149559.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:17:08 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:17:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: Message-ID: <38B16503.466DC284@idirect.com> Bob; "Sweating" is the phrase you're looking for. A winch is handy in heavy air though, but lets face it, the days of winchless sailing of J Class boats is long over when even the sheets were sweated in. Things have changed since the days of Sir Thomas and Harrold, not that I think either of them ever personally sweated (a line) in their lives other than to shout "SELL." ; ) Cheers, John Bob Johns wrote: > From: Bob Johns > > Hi Jim, & List: > > You need the jib halyard winch to get the luff tight to prevent the jib > from sagging off. The mainsail is no problem to raise almost to the top, > and the last couple of inches can be done by "swigging". (I think I may not > have the right term for this. I'd appreciate someone correcting me if > not.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Mon Feb 21 08:40:06 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:40:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole References: <004101bf7c74$9ec626e0$3e321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <38B16A65.AA122FC2@idirect.com> Dan; We used Cetol M on our sole after chemically cleaning with a soft cloth instead of a brush with a two part teak cleaner and lots of water. Scrub across the grain to not remove so much of the soft pulp wood which leaves ridges. The sole is smooth. The Cetol we painted on the first coat lightly with a foam brush and then applied like a stain the next three coats, which we wiped off after applying to give minimum coat thickness. Every season I give a wipe down with a Cetol soaked rag like a stain and the finish has held up well and gives good traction when wet. No sanding and no non skid added. The finish has held up well and we're pleased with it. We always change from our street shoes so the boat shoes do not pick up much street dirt and grit. Remember that the veneer on most Albergs was either 1/32 or 1/64th depending on the production year, with only a few first generation boats with any kind of thickness in the teak sole. Therefore I do not recommend sanding the sole at all. Notwithstanding, use a tack rag before applying each coat. Cheers, John dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,this is not a very technical question, but your advice so > far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the > teak sole after sanding. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:28:53 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:28:53 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <6b.1cf3a4f.25e2cfd5@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Bob, For starters, the winch is handy if you are older, (me) or weaker, (my wife) in getting that sail up, and second, after reefing, it's handy in getting the sail up tight again. Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the best new sites on the Web? eTour.com is a FREE service that brings great websites right to you - matched to your own unique interests. It's like having a personal remote control for the Internet! http://click.egroups.com/1/1675/4/_/_/_/951154140/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154133.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 09:30:54 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:30:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <72.1adf3ec.25e2d04e@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dan, I use Watco on my sole. It takes wear well, isn't slippery, and smells very "shippy". What more can you ask? Russ # 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951154262/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951154254.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 12:55:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:55:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the group. On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. Should I have a different handle which is especially designed for this gear shift ? Perhaps I have a different arrangement from most. I do plan on making something a bit more suitable but was just curious to know if this was normal. My longer range plan is to replace with a "Moris" (sp) unit but that is down the road a bit. greg vandenberg wrote: > From: greg vandenberg > > Their must be more than one style of main halyard wire winch. Mine has > a > removable handle the same as the cockpit winches. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/_/_/951166524/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951166537.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 21 13:08:13 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:08:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy project- success!! References: <000a01bf7c10$cbd94cc0$bc8c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B1A8F3.16201691@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... the dink looks great ! Did you use padding inside the fire hose ? Split the hose ? How about a little blow by blow on exactly how you mounted the hose on the dink ? Thanks ! Tom S # 412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/_/_/951167242/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951167293.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 14:14:59 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:14:59 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch Message-ID: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer with the same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a straight bar, and you can remove it under sail. Tha comment about winch handles: with the old South Coast type cockpit winches that used the insert type of handle, the same type fits the halyard winch. My cockpit winches are Barlow 2 speed, with a convential handle. Much easier to replace. The old ones now cost upwards or @50 @60 if you can find one. I'd guess that a lot of boats have the new type everywhere. Russ Pfeiffer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951171307/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951171299.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Mon Feb 21 17:00:54 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:00:54 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <46.1dac1f3.25e23744@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B1DFC3.17F62D30@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg There is an adjustment for the break if it shows a sign of slipping. I had to adjust ours after it showed signs of slipping back a few inches when I tried to snug it up those last few inches. I personally hate the meat hooks. PS: I believe the term is "sweating it up" It isn't the best way all the time... It works fine if its a nice day and your having a great time. rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Greg, they all had removeable handles, problem, if the brake fails, you don't > have time to take the handle out! > > Russ # 251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1633/4/_/_/_/951115082/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/_/_/951182294/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951181254.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Mon Feb 21 19:15:20 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:15:20 EST Subject: [alberg30] Fiberglass matt & epoxy Message-ID: <55.26fc543.25e35948@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com I've read that fiberglass mat contains an adhesive felting agent that is not compatible with epoxy. Eric jacobson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/_/_/951189328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951189320.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 21 19:28:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:28:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <38AF23E0.D6DAB3CF@csinet.net> <38B08F26.85C542B3@ameritech.net> <38B1A600.E77412C3@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <38B20246.A3449C62@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, The intent is that you can remove the handle so it's not in the way. Our boat, even though it has a different control, also has removeable handles. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > On the subject of winches and winch handles, I have a question for the > group. > > On #412 the gear shift is activated with the same winch handle as is > called for by the mast mounted main halyard winch ( the flat one which > fits through a slot). I find this a bit clumsy to have the hand grip > portion sticking out in the cockpit while motoring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/_/_/951189915/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951190086.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 21 20:48:43 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys Message-ID: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Tom; here are some notes on the dingy project. --After several unsuccessful attempts at using an inflatable dingy, I vowed never again to use one. I swore I'd be a hard dink man from then on. Thus I bought our dink from a retired Lt.Col. who had it stacked on his wood pile in NC. He wanted $300 and I was cheap and gave him $200. I promised to take care of it, and with a tear in his eye (knowing it had seen better days) he let me have it. This dink is fiberglass, 8 1/2" long and about 48" at its widest point. I think its fairly standard as a one-off type mold. I suspect it weighs in around 50-75lb. Its a monster to move by yourself mostly because of balance. The hull showed stress crazing at the points where the seats are glassed in on the inside. The dagger board sheath was plywood; it leaked slightly, and was starting to delaminate. I could have sawed off the sheath and started fresh, but the plywood was just becoming nasty. I encapsulated it in fiberglass, thus solving the leak. I reinforced the seat attachments only lightly with fresh fiberglass. I left the seats as wood and just painted everything. Painted the hull with Interlux off-white one part topside polyurethane. Same stuff I expect to use on deck of #499. Painted the inside Largo Blue. Learned good lesson: don't use cheep HomeDepot light green or peach colored rollers to apply paint. Fuzz sticks to everything. Use those sexy yellow close cell foam rollers. Three inch works best. Primed with the brightside primer also by Interlux. That stuff is the best!! Not sure what you call them, but where you put the oar locks, were originally light plastic "cups". They were cracked and too big for the brass oar locks on my oars. I took the cups off, and replaced them with mahogany wood pieces that the brass oar locks fit snugly in. Blocks are bolted with 5/16, 2 1/2" long ssteel hex bolts throughout the edge of the dink and through the hose. Now the hose: The edge of the dink is about 250" long. I used about 24' of three inch fire hose. Fire hose they say comes in three sizes I think. Something like a small,medium,and large. The medium is the 3", although it may not actually be called three inch. I cut the first cloth layer on the outside of the hose off. This removes discoloring and also the stenciling that says YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT HERE. The layer of cloth underneath is pristine.Under this last layer of cloth is black rubber. I did not split the hose, but left it intact. Hose is about 1/4" thick when pressed flat. The edge of the dingy is L shaped, with the L upside-down. Originally there was a hard plastic rubrail that scratched #499 when on the water. Pulled this off. Needed to decrease the diameter of the edge that the 3" hose would cover. Did not pad hose, or use rope insert, mostly because I forgot. Seems pretty padded anyway due to rubber inside. Experimented with several ways of attaching hose. Predrilling holes separately on the hose and the dingy edge does not work. Too hard to line up. Eventually used first mate to hold hose in place while I predrilled through top of hose (about 1/4" from top edge), and into dingy edge. Screwed in #8 1 1/4" ssteel sheet metal screws. Use an electric screwdriver for God's sake. Also use those little decorative washers on top. Drill though hose on top, though dingy edge, then wrap bottom edge of hose underneath and hope the screw catches. Takes a couple tries in difficult spots. Also takes some tries to get hose in tight against dingy edge. Gets better the as you get farther along. It would be possible to have screws only go through one layer of hose at the bottom thus hiding the screw tip. But I had a feeling that the hose might pop off after time, and occasionally a screw tip would punch through anyway, so I screwed right through the bottom. Took #10-24 ssteel nuts with nylon inserts and screwed them onto sheet metal screws. Now get this. The metal threads don't really catch, but they start great, and the nylon insert snugs up real nice and tight. Afterwards I used a grinding wheel on a drill to grind down the screw tips. Voila! That hose is firmly secured & your fingers don't get snagged when lifting the dink. Beats the hell out of trying to snake #10 machine screws through predrilled holes. Screwed down the hose about every 3 inches, and closer at corners. Also added ssteel u-bolts, two forward and two aft with painted backing plates (plywood) for future use to secure boat to cabin top or foredeck. By the way, Mad Scientist Experiment # 5,238: create a cabin top mounting system for dink similar to Lynn & Larry Pardy's dingy mount on that cool wooden boat they have. Also added a new reinforced bow eye, with mahogany backing plate because I envisioned loosing this $200 dink with the $100 worth of stainless hardware, when the old one broke. Bought all sstainless at Lowe's--the absolute best prices and selection. There's also a 1" thick hardwood rub strake on the one inch molded keel, screwed and 3M 5200'd in place. Probably more than you EVER wanted to know about the dingy project. But there you go. Maybe I can answer any other questions off line; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 07:17:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:17:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Everything I know about dingys References: <001d01bf7cf0$19340ca0$238c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <38B2A839.D15F7C3C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Joe ... Thank you very much for the blow by blow. I really like the looks of your finished product. I am going on a mission to locate some fire hose. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951232709/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951232670.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Feb 22 12:19:26 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:19:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Mainsail Winch References: <65.1d2d978.25e312e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <38B2EEE1.828720D3@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Russ/George ... I am not sure what engine was originally in #412 but it is now fitted with a Westerbeke 30. I realized that you were to remove the handle when sailing but kind of wondered if there was an original shift handle which was a bit less obtrusive than the winch handle. It did not appear to be a very well thought out plan to use the winch handle. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Tom, You must not have an Atomic 4. I sailed on aOearson wanderer > with the > same removeable shift. It had a Palmer engine. All you ned is a > straight > bar, and you can remove it under sail. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: http://click.egroups.com/1/1459/4/_/_/_/951250715/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951250766.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Wed Feb 23 06:36:09 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Well the UK rep. stopped by and looked at the spinnaker. Sure enough... that spinnaker was reshaped to be used as a cruising spinnaker. Not in the best way but it works well for running and beam reaching. What was done was this... the foot was tapered (material removed) by about 3 feet as you progress toward the clue (new clue and reinforcing was the give-away). In effect shorting the roach by that 3 ft. He said that the better way to do it would be to have cut a pie shaped wedge from the belly of the sail. Regarding the drifter... I felt he was pushing towards a new cruising spinnaker and not a drifter. He said that a new spinnaker (cut flat) would care me through about 70 degrees apparent. In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter and a new cruising spinnaker. More later...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/_/_/951315954/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951316569.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Wed Feb 23 06:56:50 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] For Lokman Abdullah, re: DOLCÉ VITA, A-30 Message-ID: <38B3F531.B9B87C93@idirect.com> Lokman Abdullah; I'm sure I'm misspelling your name, please forgive me, but I had a crash of the computer and your message was lost along with many others. I have forwarded Lynn's (?), Lenn's (?) phone number to Harry but I cannot respond to you as I no longer have your address. If you resend your email address it would be a help. Thank you. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sandersm at aol.com Wed Feb 23 07:13:05 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:13:05 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6c.1c69533.25e55301@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter >and a new cruising spinnaker. I have over 20 years of sailing experience, but none with spinnakers. Could someone provide me with some explanation (off-list, if appropriate) of the difference between a drifter and a cruising spinnaker, which until now I had thought to be the same beast? I had contemplated a large headsail that I could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the light airs that predominate in these summer waters. I appreciate George's remark that a regular A30 spinnaker is not such a handful, but I sail single-handed (even when I'm out with daughter or girlfriend) and I'm not really looking for something that will require rigging with uphauls and downhauls and lazy guys and all the other things that spinnakers want. Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/_/_/951318788/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951318785.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Feb 23 08:07:23 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:07:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] PWC's -- A new water sport Message-ID: <38B405BB.9B5B36B0@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A-30 people, Walter, Dan, This message was forwarded to me by a friend, Curt Dunnam, who (evidently) appreciates my "love" for PWCs on our lake. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm --Dan Sternglass A-30 #201, "Watcher of the Skies", 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/_/_/951323117/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951322043.0 From fashionguy at ameritech.net Thu Feb 24 05:37:03 2000 From: fashionguy at ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: <38B3F054.AB586CCF@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38B533FF.97581B38@ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg That IS the question Sanders! We are trying to find that sail most appropriate for light air (5-8 mph true) up-wind sailing. A cruising spinnaker is good through 70 degrees. A very flat cut cruising spinnaker is better on the wind than a standard. The thought is that a drifter (light wt, wire luff, great overlap is the answer... and the sail maker was hedging towards the flat cut cruising spinnaker. I don't think it was MY answer... so the quotes are coming on both. Meanwhile... I'm looking at used. Not a bad option....maybe the best. The prices seam to be $300/ $400. > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > In a message dated 2/23/00 9:26:51 AM, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: > > >In the end he was going to put a quote together on both the drifter > >and a new cruising spinnaker. > I had contemplated a large headsail that I > could tack to the deck and hoist with a spinnaker halyard, without need of > attachment to the forestay (I have roller-furling gear and don't want to take > down the genoa once it's up), that would give me better performance in the > light airs that predominate in these summer waters. > Do I want a drifter, or a cruising spinnaker? Why? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951398809/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951399423.0 From shawnwilliam at msn.com Thu Feb 24 06:20:55 2000 From: shawnwilliam at msn.com (shawn orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:55 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam Message-ID: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> From: "shawn orr" Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit from? If so does anyone have his email address? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951402055.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:03:21 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:03:21 EST Subject: [alberg30] Whisker pole use (was: length) Message-ID: <44.1d83c29.25e6b049@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << m not saying don't use a whisker pole, but you might give some thought as to how you can stabilize it. If anyone knows how this problem can be easily solved, I'd like to hear it, too. - George >> Hey gang, What would it take to mount an upper and lower bridle to the whisker pole, so you would have a lift and a downhaul on the pole to keep it steady. The bridles would be attached at the ends of the pole, with rings in the center of each bridle, fastened with nicopress fittings or the like. If the whisker pole is one that is of adjustable length, then the bridle length would be set for the maximum extension of the pole. If for some reason you wanted to use the pole in a shorter length, the bridles would simply 'bow' up, and down a bit, but once the whisker pole length was set, the setup would still give you the control against a bouncing pole that you are seeking. Using a light whisker pole set up this way would be less work that working with a much heavier spinaker pole. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer#255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951408209/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408201.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 08:13:38 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST Subject: [alberg30] Joe Palmers replacement main halyard sheave Message-ID: <76.1dbce20.25e6b2b2@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/19/00 10:36:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at ameritech.net writes: << Greg & All - Did anyone actually order a sheave from this Jo Palmer at Classic Sailboats? I have not been able to get a response via e-mail, and his voice mailbox is full. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 >> Yes, I ordered the sheave from him, as well as replacement retaining plates, compression tube, and the big SSbolt that holds iit all in place. I ordered the retaining plates to be thicker than the originals, so I had to grind the space/slot in the mast out a bit to take the wider plates, but I think it is worth it; they are much stronger that the originals. I didn't have them anodized, because I thought the anodizing would be worn off in no time by the halyard and the sheave. Maybe, with 20 20 hindsight, that was not a very good decision. But, without the anodizing, the whole package was a little over 100 dollars, and the workmanship was very good. I got rid of the old SS wire halyard, with that rediculous wire to rope joining of a thimbled eye in the SS, and the rope end spliced on, to an all Sta-Set halyard. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951408826/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951408818.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:11:49 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] More on mast winches Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 11:35:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << Aside from the broken strands with meathooks causing a problem what is the other dangerous happenings...for instances what happens when you release the brake...how should the sail be lowered to do it safely. Jim >> The danger of the reel winch is that if the handle gets away from you while there is force on the winch; ie; the sail is up, either hoisting, or lowering, the handle will start flying in circles as the weight of the sail pulls on the halyard, and could break your arm, or crack your skull. I have read accounts of this actualy happening. In my previous post, I explained that I got away from this danger by cranking the brake adjustment as tight as it would go, so the winch cannot go backwards, and then taped the brake adjuatment handle in place, so noone will accidentaly loosen it. With the brake tight, the winch can only go in one direction, and so is safe. to lower the sail, you use this winch as any other; you take the halyard off the winch completely, or leave a wrap on and let the friction of the drum control the weight of the sail, and the speed of lowering the sail you want. By removing that bronze guide, as I described in the previous post, you have the option of putting on, or taking off, wraps on the winch, just like a normal winch. hope this helps, too, :) Lee Stargazer #255 951412309.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:22:28 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:22:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing one) The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. Russ 251 951412948.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:26:25 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:26:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] cabin sole Message-ID: <7a.1f2d2d6.25e6c3c1@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/21/00 9:02:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsail at gte.net writes: << llo all, this is not a very technical question, but your advice so far has been great. so, is there a consensus on what to put on the teak sole after sanding. i have been using gloss varnish everywhere else, but am wondering about the maintenance/safety issue for the sole. all comments welcome dan rascal #145 >> Hey Dan, If the cabin sole gets splashed, there is no slicker surface than varnish! You can add sand to the last coat, or put down friction strips, like in a tub, or if the sole is solid teak, not a plywood veneer, you can leave it unfinished, and periodicaly bronze wool it, or bronze wire brush it, to keep it looking nice. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 951413185.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Thu Feb 24 09:23:11 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] rudders References: <001101bf77ca$d3656540$24341c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <018f01bf7eeb$efdfd020$7b6df0d8@intercom.net> >there are what appear to be wood pieces(perhaps a skeleton) For what it is worth, those pieces of wood are not part of a skeleton.It's been a while, but I seem to recall at least some of those pieces were triangular in cross section. Some of mine were popping loose, and I rebedded them with thickened up polyester resin. That's been about 15 years now-no further problems.I considered glassing over the whole mess, but didn't because 1. the history of glass over wood is one of incompatibility (eventually). 2. The rudder is presently removable by unscrewing bronze machine bolts-which I probably would have covered over with glass.3. I wasn't sure of one design status on what could be interpreted as a modification of rudder cross section. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sunstone at idirect.com Thu Feb 24 11:20:25 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:20:25 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters References: Message-ID: <38B58478.5DF10AFC@idirect.com> There is merit in what Russ says, having too light a sail means the likelihood of caring it in too much wind increases as the air fills in on a light day and one inevitably waits too long - ok, well it happens on Sunstone anyway ; ) The result is a blown or distorted and over worked sail which means you have to be more diligent, like Russ, and get it down right a way. I've been thinking of a big asymmetrical, flat cut chute for Sunstone having watched the Cupper's on TV and seeing its usefulness in reaching conditions. If cut flat you can push the sail close to 50oapparent, according to Jobson, if so inclined. Our Chute on A-30 Wind Rose was a flat cut balanced one and we could push it to 55o apparent, which was a big advantage in luffing duels and walking over competitors. Trucking down the Lake it might just hit the spot. Caio, John rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, I have a drifter, but not a cruising spinnacker. (I have a racing > one) > The big difference is my drifter is 1/2 oz nylon, and is cut high at the > clew. I use it when there is almost NO wind, and when a cruiser would be > starting the engine. I take it down as soon as enough breeze is there to use > my normal genoa. It isn't designed to point, just get the boat moving. A > cruising spin, on the other hand, is generally 3/4 oz nylon, and much > stronger, and bigger, and can be carried in a lot more wind, if need be. > Russ 251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:58:00 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:58:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Genakers, cruising spinakers, drifters, bloopers-all sails for light airs, generly downsind and reaching. Basicaly, it sounds like you need a drifter, which is alarge genoa like sail, made of light, ripstop nylon, and is attached by tack, clew and halyard. The modern drifters are not attached to the forstay by hanks. They do not require a whisker pole. For realy light air, you may want to use smaller diameter, lighter sheets, so the sail can fly better. A cruising spinaker is a sail that would be flatter and smaller than a racing spinaker for the same boat. easier to handle and keep full. Still there is the pole to deal with, and since it is fuller than the drifter, is more prone to collapse while your sailing, with all the entanglements possible with that eventuality. If you singlehand, you certainly can fly a cruising spinaker, but it takes alot of attention to keep it full, and to take it down without fouling it. a genaker is a drifter-like sail that has it's tack on the end of a spinaker pole. It is a racing sail. a blooper is like a drifter, and is flown in racing, on the oppositeside of the boat from the spinaker, to catch every last bit of wind that is out there. As I said, from what you are describing, I think a drifter would suit your needs nicely. hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951428764/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415080.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 09:02:19 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:02:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] Winches on the mast Message-ID: From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951428798/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951411739.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Thu Feb 24 10:12:08 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:12:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Mast winches Message-ID: <2f.1e28a3d.25e6ce78@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com ubj: Winches on the mast Date: 2/24/00 12:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time From: FINNUS505 To: alberg30 at onelist.com In a message dated 2/20/00 9:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rap1208 at aol.com writes: << m, The best thing you can do with that wire halyard winch is use it for a paperweight. Those things are very dangerous, and can break your wrist, or arm. You must be new to the list, because a lot of people are discussing how to replace the shiv at the top of the mast with one for rope. The wire develops 'meathooks' little broken >> Hey Russ, Jim, Stargazer came with the reel type winch mounted on the port side of the mast, with the genny halyard reeved on it. The main halyard winch on the stbd side, was a simple South Coast, one speed winch, which is more than adequate for the the job. My friends on 248, Sea Gal, don't have a main halyard winch, and they do fine. They haul up the main to as far as it will go, belay the halyard, then use the down haul on the boom to set luff tnesion, along with the cunningham. But back to the genny halyard winch, I completely agree with Russ-those things are dangerous. So i modified it into a nearly normal halyard winch. I got rid of the wire halyard, and replaced it with Sta-Set. Using a metal grinder, I cut off the piece of bronze that extends from the base of the winch and acts as a preventer to keep the coils of wire in place on the drum. I turned the brake tension handle as tightly as I could, and taped it in position, so the drum could not off load on its own. What I have now is a ratcheting winch to haul up my genny and maintain luff tension. The only difference between this winch and a normal winch, is that the handle cannot ratchet freely backwards-it only goes in one direction. But where it is located on the mast, winching in full circles is not difficult. It would be possible to use the winch in ths manner without cutting off the bronze piece from the base, but it would mean you would have to get the three wraps on the winch from the bitter end, and could not take the line off the winch easily if you wanted to. That is why I opted to cut off that guide. Making this modification was easier than removing the winch from the mast, and a lot cheaper than having to buy a new genny halyard winch. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951431075/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951415928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Feb 24 17:11:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] mast support beam References: <893eo7+cass@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <38B5D6C5.7DDF1A3B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Shawn, Yes, try Read at spyaquatics at juno.com. - George shawn orr wrote: > > From: "shawn orr" > > Is Read Beigel the one to contact about purchasing a support beam kit > from? If so does anyone have his email address? > Shawn Orr > IL Molino > #307 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE > Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services > online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check > out Shabang!com FREE eStores! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951402058/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951440908/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951441093.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:22:07 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:22:07 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <28.23ede2e.25e795af@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com sounds right to me John Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/4/_/476031/_/951466933/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951466927.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Fri Feb 25 00:27:42 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:27:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinnakers & drifters Message-ID: <6f.18dc297.25e796fe@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Lee is very right about having lighter sheets. I change down on the big genoa when it gets light , first 1/4 line, then the even lighter stuff about an 1/8 . Keeps the line from getting in the water, and lets the sail fly better. you have to change back up, of course, when the wind builds again. I have thre sizes of spinnacker sheets too. Just depends on if you want to sail, or power. Russ 251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/476031/_/951467267/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951467262.0 From sandersm at aol.com Fri Feb 25 23:36:18 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:36:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: From: sandersm at aol.com I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, solving the need to make another hole in the boat. I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, if mounted in the cockpit? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951550578.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 06:15:10 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:15:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> I'm looking at installing on the cockpit floor a hatch of some kind to get access below. I've visited some web sites and seen that they offer "Inspection Hatches" and "Deck Plates". What is the intended purpose or difference of one versus the other ? Guy #466 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:38:39 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:38:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock cord) to hold it there. You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above the ice chest Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. Just my opinion, Russ #251 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579519.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sat Feb 26 07:44:52 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Guy, the answer is size. Try fitting both arms down that little inspection port, and see how it works for you? Big point, its watertight, and strong. If I realy need to get at things , I would cut a big opening in the starboard sail locker to get in there and work. I could always put that back and glass it in if I wanted, or make it removable. (most likely) Hope that helps answer your question. If you've been here for a while, you may have read about some of the hatchess installed. some leak, most are weaker, that;s always your choice. I personaly believe in the KISS principal. That is "keep it simple, stupid) I have to tell myself that a lot when I think of doing new things Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1895/4/_/476031/_/951579899/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951579892.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Feb 26 02:44:55 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:44:55 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <951553031.10181@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38B7AEA7.3D0DC83@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you want a really simple way to mount a GPS, as I did, take a white (I like white) plastic motor oil bottle, cut the top half off, reeve a stainless steel hose clamp through slots you cut in the back and clamp it to something like a stanchion and set the GPS in it. Cheap, you can throw it away, you can make a nice job of it or a real quickie, and no holes are required in your boat. - Gordon White A-275_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, electronics, Home furnishings and more. http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/4/_/476031/_/951580039/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951561895.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:41:00 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:41:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <001b01bf8080$a6b03c00$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" Sanders: The fold-away step in the cockpit works well for an external speaker we have installed there. The speaker has suffered no damage as the step protects it well. The speaker is water-proof, and has suffered no weather damage there, either. I don't know about the GPS. The real question, as you stated, would be weather-resistance, I think. I recently mounted my GPS, a Meridian XL handheld unit, on a bracket that is attached to my Skippers Nav Helper http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/navhlpr.html (read: shameless plug). In the spot where I previously put the brass hook, I mounted the GPS bracket. It is accessible to the cockpit, gets a clean signal because its close to the open companionway, and it's still protected from getting kicked or smacked around. My GPS bracket is a stationary fix-mounted clip type. Perhaps, a swinging mount would allow you to see the GPS from outside in the cockpit, but then you can swing it out of the way afterwards. Something to think about, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > I generally avoid marine electronics for simplicity's sake and a general > desire not to put holes in my boat for transducers and mounts and such. My > yard, though, has persuaded me to mount a Garmin GPS head that came unmounted > with the boat. Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least > of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a knotmeter, > which would be nice when trying different sail trims. > > That would suggest a mount in the cockpit. Problem: Where to put it? It > just occurred to me, that the hinged step in front of the companionway might > be the ideal location -- easy to see when at the tiller, protected from > missteps, and there is already a fitting through which a line could be run, > solving the need to make another hole in the boat. > > I rather like the idea of putting that spot to some use. Has anyone else > attempted such an installation? Will a Garmin head stand up to the elements, > if mounted in the cockpit? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and > supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951550583/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/915/4/_/476031/_/951583827/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586860.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <002c01bf8082$aa0c4d60$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Sat Feb 26 09:55:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:55:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Mad Scientist update- hard dodger Message-ID: <004501bf8084$87243a40$9a8c6bd8@palberg30> To the Group: I still need a good measurement to determine the max height of the hard dodger, so it doesn't interfere with the boom. My mast is currently unstepped, so if anyone has their boat available, I need the following measurement: Setting the boom as low as it will go on the sail track, and adjusting the main traveler to simulate having the mainsail tightened in all the way, I need the max distance available from the most forward part of the cockpit (the step just before the companionway opening) to the bottom of the boom. Another measurement would also be the max height from the cockpit sole to the bottom of the boom. I have previously taken some loose measurements around 44" from the cockpit step to the bottom of the boom at the bottom of the sailtrack, but I may have been off. Can anyone confirm this dimension? Update: having futilely attempted to build a frame-less hard dodger mock-up, I eventually resorted to building the frame, and then bending my pattern around the frame. The result looks really good. But appears conservative on size. Considering my original measurements from some months ago, I am now wondering if I can make the dodger a little bigger. Bigger, I would think is better. More visibility, more room. Unfortunately I don't trust my half-ass measurements from months prior.(I used another Alberg30, that is no longer available.) Thanks for your help; Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobjns at nais.com Sat Feb 26 09:28:23 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns Sanders and Russ, >...swing away mounting, for a loran. I have a swing away mount for my loran, mounted as Russ describes. I use elastic stop nuts to give a little tension on the pivoting screws, and this works fairly well, except the nuts do need to be adjusted every so often. We tend to swing the loran out of the way when someone goes below. It is a handy location as far as using the loran. We have the depth sounder mounted in the bridge deck hinged cover. This works well for the sounder as we are not making frequent adjustments on it, except to change the range scale. It might be a little awkward operating the GPS in there but you should check this out yourself. We do find ourselves flipping the cover closed when someone goes below. >Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use >caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the >waypoint I entered at that location. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that felt as Russ does on accuracy of lorans vs GPS. This will be true until the Department of Defense stops reducing accuracy for civilians at random intervals. It is true that the absolute accuracy of lorans is slightly less than for GPS (600 feet vs 300 feet in my experience if DOD is playing games with accuracies). Repeatable accuracy, where you have stored that location previously, seems to be as good on our loran as a GPS operating with no DOD error thrown in (but you can't tell when that error is absent so you better assume no better than 300 foot accuracy). We sailed to the Chesapeake several years ago with a friend that brought his handheld GPS. Naturally we spent a lot of time comparing the two. On the subject of determining boat speed, the loran was generally good for checking the knotmeter - the differences that we saw were all within our estimates for tidal currents. The reason the accuracy was good was that the loran was set to average the computations over a 2 minute period. I had tried less averaging time and found that the results were very erratic. The 2 minutes averaging time means that you cannot use the loran as a replacement for the knotmeter because of the lag caused by that response time. We normally compare the knotmeter speed to the loran speed and assume that the difference is due to current. If we find that the difference is consistent in different current conditions we then start to consider that the knotmeter may need an adjustment. The GPS belonging to my friend had no adjustment for averaging time. It apparently was set for very rapid averaging because the speed readings were all over the map. With the knotmeter and loran reading constant speed, the GPS would read as much as 1 knot on either side of the other readings. If the averaging time could have been set to a longer value it would probably have given good results. If you are buying a GPS, Sanders, make sure that it can be set to average over at least a 2 minute interval and realize that it will not be satisfactory as a replacement for a knotmeter, although it should be fine for checking the knotmeter accuracy with no current present. The other problem with my friend's GPS was that the internal battery life was limited and he was constantly switching it off to conserve the batteries. It may be that newer GPS have better battery life and that this is no longer a consideration but you should check it out. The best of both worlds would be to have both internal batteries and to be able to operate off ship's power. This would suggest that the GPS should be easily removable from its mount on the boat. We found that the loran gave erratic position reading under the Chesapeake bridges. We were trying to save the locations as waypoints. It probably did the same thing under other bridges, but it was the first time we had seen the effect. The GPS seemed to be fine. Russ, thanks for the comment about accuracy of lorans vs GPS. I had the feeling that I was the only one who felt that way. Sorry to be so wordy. Regards, Bob Johns Wind Call #397 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951586080/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951586103.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 10:23:27 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:23:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: Message-ID: <002201bf8086$b57240c0$676df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. The biggest advantage I see is it's possible to take coordinates directly off the chart and write as a waypoint. That isn't possible with LORAN due to (as I understand it) the speed differences of radio waves traveling over land or water-or something like that. On the other hand, that is a fixed distortion, and the repeatability from one day to the next is unchanged. Repeatability is a feature not even listed with GPS Michael #220 P.S. on my unit, the sampling rate is adjustable in setup ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who will win the iMac? Register now and win a FREE iMac at AWZ.com! click here! http://click.egroups.com/1/1963/4/_/476031/_/951589687/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589407.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sat Feb 26 10:26:41 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <28.24c008f.25e94d7f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01bf8087$0a915460$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Saunders, ?>Apart from telling me how to find my way in the fog (at least of the atmospheric kind) they note that the unit can serve as a >knotmeter, which would be nice when trying different sail trims. Not sure about accuracy of a GPS as a knotmeter because of Selective Availability (SA). And the displayed speed between 2 positions would assume you sailed between those 2 positions in a straight line which may not always be the case. But if you only need to know approx speed, then what the hell. A real knotmeter will give you speed on the water whereas the gps will give you speed made good between 2 points. I could be way off here and would appreciate any body confirming or correcting me on this. My 2 cents. Guy #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: rap1208 at aol.com > > Saunders, Just some imput about the gps, A frien of mine made a swing away > mounting, for a loran. a friend of mind made a mounting for a loran. It is > mounted to the bulkhead above the stove, and swings out into the companionway > for readings. You mignt want some sort of locking device, (perhaps a shock > cord) to hold it there. > > You can get a small hand held, like a Magellen 310 for about a $100 that can > be used in the cockpit, and store in a small holder, or on the shelf above > the ice chest > > Also, you can't always expect pin point accuracy, like a loran, so use > caution , especially in fog. My LORAN will bring me back within 30 ft of the > waypoint I entered at that location. It's done it time after time, and I > trust it more for close in location work thatn I do either of my hand held > GPS units (Magelleon, and Garmin) > good units, but in really bad fog, I'd trust the loran, if I can get a signal. > Just my opinion, > Russ #251 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951579528/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951590014/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951589601.0 From sandersm at aol.com Sat Feb 26 10:50:41 2000 From: sandersm at aol.com (sandersm at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:50:41 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> From: sandersm at aol.com In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. Does it? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One email address - many people! Start a free email group on eGroups! http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951591041.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Feb 26 11:07:36 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but different than what your knotmeter will tell you. For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, however. Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a DGPS > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One email address - many people! > Start a free email group on eGroups! > http://click.egroups.com/1/1887/4/_/476031/_/951591048/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951592031/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951592056.0 From sunstone at idirect.com Sat Feb 26 12:11:53 2000 From: sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:11:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38B83387.8CD6FD96@idirect.com> Hi Sanders; We have a Garmin 120, now upgraded to the 128 model with external patch antenna. Mount the antenna on the pushpit - clear of life rings, BBQ, etcetera with whatever brand you use. You will likely have trouble with signal loss if mounted with an internal antenna at the old compass location, particularly with a dodger and people near by. If you want an accurate knot meter, buy one (knot meter, that is). There are several relatively inexpensive models available - suggest mounting the impeller forward as close to the centreline as reasonable and where you can get at it inside. It was a mistake when Whitby mounted the Sumlogs aft on the keel side, guaranteeing inaccuracy on one tack due to turbulence. A GPS is very useful and a good aid to navigation but its very short term speed accuracy for incremental trim changes is questionable. It is much more accurate measuring speed/distance and course overtime, when the randomness of SA is cancelled out. Personally I wouldn't spend the extra coin on the Differential System - but many do, to each their own. There my nickel's up. ; ) Cheers, John, Sunstone KC-65 Timothy C. Lackey wrote: > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate > SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as > a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite > signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original > signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original > signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a > random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, > and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). > However, it is only speed over the ground--useful readings, to be sure, but > different than what your knotmeter will tell you. > > For navigational purposes, speed over the ground is what is important--it is > what will tell you how long you have to go, etc. It invisibly takes into > account all external forces--current, set, drift, etc. and is more accurate > in the long run than a knotmeter. For your purposes, Sanders, it WILL work > as a very accurate knotmeter, because it does measure the speed over ground > instead of simply speed through the water. Example: Say you're heading due > east at 5 knots through a 3 knot westerly current. You're only making 2 > knots over the ground, and this is the value your GPS will give you. If you > calculate ETA based on your knotmeter, and not knowing the exact current, > you'd probably come up with a time far earlier than you will really arrive. > The GPS speed given on the screen would be dead-on accurate at all times, > however. > > Get a GPS--you won't be disappointed. Like all electronics, it has its > limitations, but it is an excellent, accurate, reliable system. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > > > From: sandersm at aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/00 1:29:02 PM, mgrosh at shore.intercom.net writes: > > > > << For what it is worth, for the last several months I have been using a > DGPS > > > > (Differential) which is the Coast Guards patch to restore accuracy to the > > > > DOD system (I know, I know, but this is the US Gov't we are talking here > > > > :) ) and it's accuracy is impressive. >> > > > > Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > > undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > > uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a > > knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the > > thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one > > no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > > uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > > all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > > Sanders McNew > > WILD ELF (# 297) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Sat Feb 26 13:58:02 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201bf80a4$a3f99d20$576df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Both the GPS and the DGPS units I have used consistently show .2-.3 knots when I am tied up to a dock. But, when I actually am underway, it's indicated speed appears to be much more accurate than what I can calculate by other means-it gives extremely accurate ETA's to specified waypoints, for instance. I just don't know what the deal is with the at dock underway speed. I have a paddle wheel knotmeter on Checkmate. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the GPS. I have spent more on a replacement paddlewheel than what GPS units now go for. I was watching the readout the other day-this thing reads out lat/long down to 1/1000 of a minute. I was moving at about 6.5 knots, the GPS updates itself 1/sec.and the 1/1000 column was skipping digits (2,4,6,8,...)I don't know what that breaks down to in feet, but it's not very much. Michael #220 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951602541/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951602282.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 11:23:44 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:23:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <9e.1a1a3f5.25ead3c0@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com Hi Guy, I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their catalogue. Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass dulls the blade quickly!!! It's a very worthwhile project though. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of missing calls while online? Now you can surf the Internet without worrying about missing important calls! CallWave's FREE Internet Answering Machine lets you hear who's calling while online. http://click.egroups.com/1/1927/4/_/476031/_/951679428/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951679424.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:33:17 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:33:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <9e.1a47ce8.25eb0e3d@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Dear, Bob.....That's just experiance talking. The first loran I used was an old TI that only read T D s. Trying to read those little purple lines at night with a red light was tough. And remember when even that kind cost $4000 ? Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show your style! Choose from 6 great card designs when you apply for Capital One's 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum. http://click.egroups.com/1/1894/4/_/476031/_/951694410/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951694397.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Sun Feb 27 15:35:32 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:35:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount Message-ID: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> From: rap1208 at aol.com Michael.....I have been taking the lat/long numbers off the chart for years, and I have no problem. You just have to know how to read a chart. Russ 951694532.0 From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Sun Feb 27 16:03:45 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:03:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <3e.1552ddc.25eb1561@aol.com> From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com dear Lee, I, too, have been planning the cockpit hatch job for when I can get the time and afford the aluminum hatch. In fact, I'm forced to do it, to correct a bad installation of an amateur 'inspection plate' installed by the previous owner when he hastily installed an Edson wheel by chopping (and believe me that's not too strong a word) through the cockpit sole. But I've always wondered about compromising strength. The boat, for all that it's overbuilt, still gets a great deal of its stiffness from the integrity of the deck mold as a whole (including the cockpit walls and sole). There is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 2/27/00 2:24:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > From: finnus505 at aol.com > > Hi Guy, > I put a Bomar access panel in my cockpit sole to get access to my engine > water pump, the stuffing box, and the cockpit scupper through hulls. > I bought the biggest one they make, I think it's about 18" x 22" if I > remember correctly. I got it through West Marine. It cost about 60 dollars. > > It is a plastic access hatch, and I was alitlle dissapointed when I felt it > give a little more than I would have liked when I stood on it. I could > easily see someone going through it if they were jumping into the cockpit, > either because they didnt know better, or what. So I made a plywood cover > for it, until I can make a nice strong teak cockpit grating. > There are aluminum access panels, or manhole covers, available, and though > they run in the hundreds of dollars, oviously they are stronger, and require > > no protection for themselves. Hamilton Marine in Maine has a bunch in their > > catalogue. > Cutting out the hole is no fun-the cockpit sole in the A30 is quite a > laminate. On ours, 255, there were two layers of masonit core, sandwiched in > > heavy glass laminates. I used a sawsall to cut the opening. The glass > dulls > the blade quickly!!! > It's a very worthwhile project though. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1884/4/_/476031/_/951696235/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951696225.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 01:34:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:34:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] access hatch References: <951725950.12852@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BA4143.2010CE46@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White I second Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951748642/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951730499.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:28:40 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:28:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: <79.1cbae4c.25ebfc38@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/27/00 7:05:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rabbit649 at AOL.com writes: << here is no question that any removal of material, any opening, especially a square one with small radius corners, weakens the boat. The books say "put back around the hole as much material as you remove" so 18" x 22" x 5/8" gives you the amount of material you removed, and then you have to design it into a lip which stiffens the opening. I've always thought the way to go is to cut a triangular cross section of foam and glue it around the opening underneath, then glass over heavily. Then you have a kind of sleeve around the opening for the full depth of the aluminum hatch frame, which is braced at a 45 degree angle up to the deck, with extra glass around the corners, where forces on the sole are likey to concentrate. Wish I could send a drawing. Can you visualize what I mean? What do you think? Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh Hi Paul, Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! I found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel the sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not compromise the structure of the boat. When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, probably from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, water eventualy gets everywhere. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/911/4/_/476031/_/951755328/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755320.0 From dsail at gte.net Mon Feb 28 08:55:19 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i am not sure what i am seeing. the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance dan rascal 145 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:23:34 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:23:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: >[...] >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess (having >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was totally >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as a >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but the >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with one >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to avoid >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob mentions. > Does it? GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the doppler algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all very good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But they've been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You know, like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good compared to the log. However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but if you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. Anfd you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current set & drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so is superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments which might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if you're racing. Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit log, & sextant. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758614.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 09:27:41 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <000801bf808c$bf81e100$76905d18@Lackey.maine.rr.com> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk At 02:07 PM 2/26/00 -0500, Timothy C. Lackey wrote: >All GPS--whether differential or not--provide very relaible and accurate >SPEED OVER GROUND readings. They do not provide speed through the water as >a knotmeter does. Differential GPS provides a correction to the satellite >signal to correct for the government's random downgrading of the original >signal and therefore may provide more accuracy (assuming that the original >signal is even downgraded, which it probably isn't much of the time; it's a >random (called "selective availability" or SA) manipulation of the signal, >and the amount, if any, varies from nothing to within a reasonable limit). The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation, so differential isn't too helpful there - though of course it's useful for positioning. Bob Kirk Isobar #181 951758861.0 From kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca Mon Feb 28 09:51:54 2000 From: kelly.mcdaniel at gov.calgary.ab.ca (Mr. Kelly McDaniel) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:51:54 -0700 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass, pit log or sextant please contact me direct as I could definitely put these to practical use. Kelly _/) Robert Kirk wrote: > From: Robert Kirk > > At 01:50 PM 2/26/00 -0500, sandersm at aol.com wrote: > >[...] > >Does the DGPS unit provide reliable speed readings? I must confess > (having > >undue confidence in my piloting and dead reckoning skills) that I was > totally > >uninterested in GPS until the yard told me what a help it would be as > a > >knotmeter. I'm not interested in holing my hull for a knotmeter, but > the > >thought of having a way to measure speed and pinpoint location with > one > >no-hassle instrument does appeal to me. Bob's remarks about GPS's > >uselessness as a knotmeter lead me back to my original inclination to > avoid > >all electronics. Unless, perhaps, the DGPS solves the problems Bob > mentions. > > Does it? > > > GPS is impressively accurate and reliable in speed measurement. > > GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) > from the > satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > > first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > underway with more than a knot or two of speed. There may be minor > differences amongst the manufacturers in the implementation of the > doppler > algorithms and the degree of smoothing but the newer units are all > very > good. If I remember, the older Magellans did a terrible job and used > position differentiation, averaged over a selectable interval. But > they've > been superseded. Even my antediluvian Motorola uses doppler. (You > know, > like the cop's radar).The bottom line is that you can expect 1/10 > knot absolute speed accuracy from a moving boat - pretty good > compared to > the log. > > However, you might not want to throw away the old Pit Log yet. GPS > gives you speed over the ground, which is great for navigation, but > if > you're racing you might want to know speed through the water, too. > Anfd > you can use the two of them in combination to calculate the current > set & > drift with a simple maneuvering board. Also, the log is analog and so > is > superior in picking up the quick trends of minor sail adjustments > which > might disappear in the noise of any digital calculation from GPS if > you're > racing. > > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, > pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 522 bytes Desc: Card for Mr. Kelly McDaniel URL: From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Feb 28 10:13:18 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:13:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BAB5BA.404A5071@gov.calgary.ab.ca> References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000228131005.00d2c610@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:51 AM 2/28/00 -0700, Mr. Kelly McDaniel wrote: >From: "Mr. Kelly McDaniel" > >Anyone contemplating "throwing out" your compass,[...] >A new record; 24 minutes from my post till first offer :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rabbit649 at AOL.com Mon Feb 28 10:35:03 2000 From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com (Rabbit649 at AOL.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:35:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate Message-ID: From: Rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 2/28/00 11:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, finnus505 at aol.com writes: > Hi Paul, > Your replacement of the glass from the cut-out definitely will be strong!!! > I > found that since the cut out I made in the forward end of the cockpit had > it's margins so close to the corners of the cockpit sole, the L shape, of > where the sole meets the vertical walls of the cockpit, is rigid enough that > > no extra reinforcement seemed necessary. However, the aft margin of the > cutout, did flex when i stood on the sole, and so I through bolted a nice > stiff 2 x4 athwartships, an inch or so aft of the cutout. Spanning the width > > of the sole as it does, it stiffened up the area considerably, and I feel > the > sole is as strong now as it was before, and the access hatch does not > compromise the structure of the boat. > When I was done cuting out the hole for the hatch, the cut surface of the > masonite core had seperated from the laminate in a couple of places, > probably > from the vibration of the sawsall. With 20-20 hindsight, I realized I shoud > > have changed the blade more frequently, as the heavy glass laminate dulled > the blade fast, and the dull blade made the vibration. I let GitRot, a > thinned epoxy, soak into the 'end grain' of the masonite, to reunite it with > > the fiberglass laminate, and to make it waterproog once the hatch was > installed. The hatch is bedded in silicone caulking, so theoreticaly, no > water should reach this end of the masonite, but we both know, on a boat, > water eventualy gets everywhere. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 Probably it's meaningless for such a small cut-out in an already boxed area like the cockpit, but when you have a structure that gets it's strength by being boxed, any removal of surface has got to weaken the overall stiffness of the structure. I don't mean the stiffness of the edges for standing, but the resistance to wracking that deck surface gives the whole boat against wracking in a punishing sea. Imagine a box with a top. Now twist it. Now take the top off and twist it again. Now, cut a square hole out of the top and put it back on and twist it. That's what I'm talking about. Paul #23 Ashwagh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951762911/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951762903.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 09:00:10 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] lat/long numbers References: <3f.177ac28.25eb0ec4@aol.com> Message-ID: <004c01bf821a$3c03b620$396df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" Russ; I know the TD coordinates for the upper end of Tangier sound are over 3/4 mile off-verified by the Coast Guard. That's the only place I have felt a need for absolute accuracy-but it's a pretty big need :) Michael #220 951757210.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Feb 28 11:14:15 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:14:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel References: <000901bf820c$99ce0f20$58321c3f@daniel> Message-ID: <005f01bf8220$2e681280$396df0d8@intercom.net> >from aft the first two have the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is I am not sure what I am seeing. >my question is on older models #145 is this what I should see, Those compartments are not particularly finished off, and on the older boats (no liner) the woven fiberglass you see is the only hull there is-perhaps 1 inch thick solid 'glass. >is it possible that water can get into the space between the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance It seems to me that some things are just beyond the need to worry about-The ballast area is above the bilge level where bilge water normally slops around (engine compartment), but I am not going to presume that means no water infiltrates into the area. I'm aware of the power of rust to expand and destroy things, but I know of no Alberg that has had that problem-perhaps because the iron used in the ballast is more resistant to rust than regular steel. Then again, maybe it rusts just enough to seal up the cracks that normally develop between dissimilar materials. I believe one would have to destroy the keel anyway to find out what's going on in there. Michael #220 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dave_Olson at Starkey.com Mon Feb 28 12:55:15 2000 From: Dave_Olson at Starkey.com (Dave Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:55:15 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> From: "Dave Olson" alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 4 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. main wiring harness > From: "alberg30" > 2. Re: main wiring harness > From: Bob Johns > 3. Mansfield TDX > From: "Horton, Ross G." > 4. Re: main wiring harness > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:29:01 -0600 > From: "alberg30" > Subject: main wiring harness > > To the group: > > I was considering replacing some of the wiring from the instrument panel in the cockpit to the master electrical panel aboard #499. This would include engine wiring, the running lights switch, starter wires, etc. > > Is there a commercial wiring harness that can be bought and installed? Or do I just replace the wires, creating my own wiring harness. I thought if there was one already made up, it would save time on the installation and make things really organized. Otherwise, I can run the wires myself. > > Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly doesn't seal watertight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to hell. Options for replacing this? > > Thanks in advance: > > Joe #499 > "One Less Traveled" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:15:29 -0500 > From: Bob Johns > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > >Also, how about replacing the instrument panel with a wood panel? My > >panel in the cockpit is made of metal, of some sort, and certainly > >doesn't seal water tight, nor look well. It looks like its been beat to > >hell. Options for replacing this? Thanks in advance: Joe #499 "One > >Less Traveled" > > Joe, > > I did a complete rewiring job on Wind Call #397 five years ago. The cockpit > instrument panel was replaced with a lexan panel. I spray painted the new > panel on the backside with a flat black paint. The result is a painted > panel that looks glossy (in spite of using the flat paint) but since the > paint is inside it doesn't get scratched and it is protected from the > weather. Much better than wood IMHO. > > I got rid of the old mechanical instruments and went electrical on > everything. I added an expanded scale voltmeter and fuel gauge. I retained > the separate starter switch even though the new ignition switch has a > starter circuit (turn the key past the ignition 'on' position to crank the > engine). The reason I didn't use the starter circuit in the ignition > circuit is that I have heard of cases where the key switch stuck in the > 'start' position and the starter did not disengage with the result that the > starter burned out. > > The panel has a large tachometer in the middle of the panel and is > surrounded by the Temperature, oil pressure, fuel gauges and expanded scale > voltmeter. The fit was tight with the instruments just about touching each > other, and I had to trim the fiberglass where the panel mounts just a > little. > > The running light switch on Wind Call has two 'on' positions. The first > position turns on the just the running lights but not the steaming light or > the instrument panel lights. The second position turns on all of them. I > assume that your switch is connected the same way, but if not, I would > suggest that you wire the new one this way. > > I rewired the whole boat, added a 100 amp alternator, new main electrical > panel and an ampere-hour meter, which can read voltage to 0.01 volts and > current to 0.1 amperes. The lighting wiring carries separate returns for > each lamp. ((Nothing dims when you turn on extra lights!) > > If I can give you any more information, let me know. > > Regards, > Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:23 -0500 > From: "Horton, Ross G." > Subject: Mansfield TDX > > Guy- > I'm not the one who started the thread on the Mansfield TDX > sanitation system but I have one in my boat which is in need of some > attention. At present, it is serving only as a small holding tank. If > no-one else wants the Owners Manual I would love to have it or a copy of it. > I'll be happy to pay for copying and postage. I attempted to send this > offline, by e-mail directly to you, but could not get it delivered to the > address in the header. > My snail mail address is > Ross Horton > 14493 Sentry Road > Nokesville, Virginia 20181 > > Thanks for the help. > > Ross G. Horton > Delphi #40 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:06 EST > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > Subject: Re: main wiring harness > > Joe, when I bought my boat, the instrument panel glass was cracked. the > first winter I puled it out, and took it home, I dismanteled it, (not too > hard,) and removed the broken glass. I replaced it with plastic, which has > surrived so far. The panel did look tired. I painted it a neat gold color, > while the instruments were out. I carefully went over the black part with a > sharpie pen, and wide marker, and made the black dark again. I also replaced > the burned out voltage regulater. Bought a cheap unit at the auto parts > store, took it apart, trimed the face to size and installed it in the panel. > I also used a little caulk on reasembly. When I put the whole thing back > together it looked so much better. > Also, on this subject, the 1st summer I made a "U" shaped of teak that went > around the panel on front, back and top. It's about 1" thick, and protects > the switches, and choak knob. No one has kicked the knob off after that. > Always something to do on a boat. > > Russ 251 > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/912/4/_/476031/_/951771275/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951771315.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Feb 28 15:24:31 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 17:55:49 -0400 Subject: [alberg30] Inspection Hatch / Deck Plate References: <000a01bf8063$e4529c00$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> Message-ID: From: Tom Sutherland Guy ... Excuse my being a bit late but my computer has been in the shop. I can shed a bit of light on this subject in that my boat (#412) came to me with an inspection hatch in the cockpit floor. I believe it was by Bomar. It was Poly Carbonate and had two latches which would dog it down and remain flush. It was low profile, didn't look too bad, and about the right size. The problem was ... it leaked like a SIEVE! The lid portion had warped over time and would not seal down very well. My first thought was to buy another just like it and only use the lid portion, which was the portion which was warped. This would obviate the need to replace the frame and should be an easy fix at least for the short run. Well to make along story a bit longer ... West or Boat/US no longer had this model and the closest thing was a bit smaller which negated my being able to use my existing cut out . Out of frustration I called Bomar to see if they had anything either the same size or a bit larger and they did not. However They enlightened me to the following: 1) The Poly Carbonate inspection hatch was NOT intended to be placed in a cockpit floor. It would NOT be water tight in this application. 2) The Cast Aluminum was far better for my given purpose. 3) Hamilton Marine of Maine probably had the best selection. I believe I am going to bite the bullet and spring for the Cast Alum in a powder coat white. I may have to pull my engine and I think this would be the time for the project. I plan to go with their Model.No. Bom-C4T1416-W which calls for a cut out of 15 5/8" X 17 5/8". which would require me to open up my current opening a little bit. I might also add that the current hatch has not weakened the integrity of my cockpit floor in any way that I can see. I feel that the cast alum will be just fine with the slightly larger opening ... sorry for the length of my post. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Guy Lalonde wrote: > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WANT FREE MAGAZINES? Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers! http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/476031/_/951780263/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -421121051.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:20:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:20:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Please remove References: <950861843.25690@onelist.com> <38BAE0B3.C01284D3@starkey.com> Message-ID: <38BB10B6.E14012A2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dave, You need to send a message to alberg30-unsubscribe at onelist.com to leave the list. - George ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783416/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783606.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Feb 28 17:08:37 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] paint vs. Lexan Message-ID: <001401bf8251$82fddba0$338c6bd8@palberg30> So yesterday I made the new instrument panel for the cockpit out a piece of commercial 1/4" thick Lexan. After cutting the instrument holes etc, I spray painted the Lexan with Rustoleum Multi-purpose Semi-gloss black paint on the backside, just like someone previously suggested. It looked great. Today I checked to see how the paint looked and deciding that it needed one more coat on the back side to even the color throughout the Lexan, I repainted the black, with the same paint. The paint instantly began to crack and obviously there was a chemical reaction going on. All the paint on the back of the Lexan cracked up and then I was able to smear it off with thinner. The Lexan is now marked on the back by traces of the chemical reaction. Maybe its salvageable, I don't know. Whats the deal? Any ideas? Could the problem be thinning agents mixed in the bottom of the can? I was near the end of the can of spray paint. How about a temperature difference? I brought the can of paint in from the garage where its probably in the 40's. The panel was inside in 70 degrees. Or maybe its the wrong paint all together? Thanks: Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Feb 28 16:23:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:23:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > The speed calculation is pretty much immune to the SA degradation ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! http://click.egroups.com/1/1896/4/_/476031/_/951783597/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951783787.0 From a30240 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 18:06:33 2000 From: a30240 at earthlink.net (James Davis) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <4.2.2.20000228115556.00d2ba60@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <003b01bf8259$9c385160$4c1f1e26@jamesdav> From: "James Davis" ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kirk To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:23 Subject: Re: [alberg30] GPS mount > From: Robert Kirk Bob I think I'll hold onto my old instruments for a bit longer, I still don't trust the newfangeled GPS. My 19th century one works fine. Jim Davis > Anyway, the GPS is revolutionary; you could throw away your compass, pit > log, & sextant. > > Cheers, > Bob Kirk > Isobar #181 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start your own free email group on eGroups. http://click.egroups.com/1/1882/4/_/476031/_/951790057/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951789993.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Mon Feb 28 20:09:44 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:09:44 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, What you're looking at is the top of the iron ballast. I found much the same thing on #121. When Whitby "glassed" over the ballast they only put the glass tabbing along the edges, but covered the whole surface with resin. Unfortunately, un-reinforced resin have very little strength and almost all of it had broken away from the middle 4 to 6 inches leaving the iron exposed. I found this somewhat disturbing, considering the destructive forces that can be developed by expanding rust. In the two after-most compartments I found platforms glassed-in below the cabin sole, but above the keel top. These served as the bottom of the battery compartments. Taking the somewhat extreme approach, I cut these out to gain access to the full length of the keel top. Everything was very grungy. After much effort scrubbing with Simple Green and a bristle brush, I prepped the whole area for epoxy and glass (too much fun for most sane people), by grinding down to clean laminate and running a heater and fan through the spaces to get things as dry an possible. After glassing with System 3 epoxy and a couplke of layers of 6 oz. cloth I painted the works with white Petit Easypoxy. I never bothered with replacing the battery platforms. I moved them up and outboard to below where the old upright icebox once lived. I never like the idea of batteries in the bilge. I'll be the first to admit that not everyone would be prepared to take the same approach, but I think it would be wise to try to take some action to clean-up and seal the keel top. It's true that there are no "war stories" of peoples keels blowing out from ballast rusting, but then again I figure that these boats are probably only a quarter of the way through their service life! Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 > -----Original Message----- > From: dan walker [SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 8:55 AM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "dan walker" > > > after all the recent discussion relating to battery placement i took a > look at rascal. she has four access boards. from aft the first two have > the pans for the batteries. the third is just open space. my question is i > am not sure what i am seeing. > the area is not finished off. from port and starboard there is fiberglass > that comes in a few inches as if it used to be connected but over the > years has broken/warn away. then in the middle it appears to be solid > something. it is brownish is the best i can say. like rust or years of > grime. i guess after rambling, my question is on older models #145 is this > what i should see, or has something gone awry that i need to look into. > my concern being is it possible that water can get into the space between > the outer hull and the metal in the keel. thanks in advance > dan > rascal 145 > _____ > > > > > _____ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Luck o' the Irish! Get your St. Paddy's day party supplies at GreatEntertaining.com today. Green salami, brew kits, shamrock confetti, gold coins, & more. Erin Go Bragh! http://click.egroups.com/1/2042/4/_/476031/_/951797144/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951797384.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Feb 28 23:01:18 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:01:18 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] GPS References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. - Gordon White A-275 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and put your mind to rest. http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/476031/_/951825825/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951807678.0 From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 04:12:23 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:12:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01bf82ae$3d4f70c0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose and failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole in the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable ones. I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box now? Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951826343.0 From rleach at mbayaq.org Tue Feb 29 06:10:34 2000 From: rleach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:10:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Charles, It was actually prior to cleaning up the bilge that I was poking around in the port cockpit seat locker, literally, with an awl...the forward bulkhead was very, very mushy. It turned out that the drain fitting on the ice box had been leaking for some time and had caused a lot of rot. That, and the fact that it seemed like ice box was very poorly insulated caused me to disassemble the whole works. By working carefully, I managed to not destroy any of the pieces. What I found was a pitiful lack of insulation, and a lot of rotten plywood below and behind the box itself. While in the process of removing all the mush I got it into my head that since I had a great big hole in the aft bulkhead anyway, I'd consider putting a quarterberth, figuring that I could always backtrack if it didn't look like it would work out. Well, as it stands, I've got a very nice battery compartment that resides below where the ice box was. I also moved my switch panel outboard to where the shelves were beside the icebox. This arrangement resulted in a shorter runs between the battery and the starter, alternator and switch panel. It did move the weight up higher, which isn't so great, but it has helped offset the heeling moment created by my fuel tank which lives in the far outboard part of the starboard seat locker. I also had to make a large tray that I glassed in under the port seat locker lid to keep it safe from major water intrusion in the event of getting pooped. At present our icebox consists of a large cooler that lives on top of the new battery box. Eventually I'll be installing a top-opening box that will utilize the awkward, under-used space below the existing galley counter. To be honest, I'll probably put that off for a while, the interior work that I've done so far created a huge mess, took longer than I expected, and tied the boat up during some prime sailing days. Even so, I'm happy with things so far. Whew! It sounded like such a simple question, didn't it? Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Haggart [SMTP:chaggart at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:12 AM > To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Subject: RE: [alberg30] bilge/keel > > From: "Charles Haggart" > > Rick: I worked over the bilge last year as well, clearing out all loose > and > failing glass on top of the keel in the bilge . I managed to chip back to > within an inch of the hull before getting into good stuff. I plan to > re-epoxy this spring when it warms up. As to the platforms below the sole > in > the two aft sections. I cut them out and replaced them with removable > ones. > I still store my batteries there (one in each compartment) You said you > moved your batteries into the old ice box place. Where is your ice box > now? > > Charles Haggart #150 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/913/4/_/476031/_/951826451/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951833193/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951833434.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:15:28 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:15:28 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved Message-ID: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:17:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:17:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <001401bf82c8$26baa720$628c6bd8@palberg30> Thats Krylon flat black. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alberg30 at interactive.net Tue Feb 29 07:19:52 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved References: <000a01bf82c7$d0db50c0$628c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <002401bf82c8$6de5a5a0$628c6bd8@palberg30> My spellchecker went crazy. Krylon Flat black, and Lexan.Ah---forget it.... ----- Original Message ----- From: alberg30 To: Alberg 30 List Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: [alberg30] lexan vs. paint solved From: "alberg30" Well, I have no idea what happened with the spray paint on the Lexan. But my only guess can be that some thinning agents at the bottom of the can got sprayed out and dissolved the paint previously applied. Anyway, FYI: I used a new can of Karolyn Flat Black that says its good for most plastics metals etc, and had no problems. Several coats later it looks dynamite! The Lectern instrument panel is a terrific idea and man it looks good! The damaged Lectern showed no markings after being painted. The Lectern was easy to cut with a 2" hole saw, and then a jigsaw for the larger hole for the tachometer. Just use a plywood piece behind the Lectern to give the drill bits something to bite into. Excellent! Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 29 07:06:27 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge/keel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601bf82c6$8e35f6e0$a278fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" Rick: Just last week I removed the starboard counter (sink and all) as well as the Port Ice Box. My plans are to reconstruct the ice box as a top loader and redesign the space into a chart area. Under the Starboard counter there was a water tank which I shall move into the port locker thus freeing up a ton'o'space under the sink. All this and more before launch in early May. Charles Haggart #150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/967/4/_/476031/_/951836893/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951836787.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:23:36 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:23:36 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount In-Reply-To: <38BB116B.74F8D352@min.net> References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler which is accurate and not affected by SA. Cheers, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951848616.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Feb 29 10:37:42 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:37:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS In-Reply-To: <38BB6EBE.199132B9@crosslink.net> References: <951812238.6462@onelist.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229132356.00d6b930@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> From: Robert Kirk >Maybe I am seeing things, but when I leave my GPS sitting here by the >window on solid ground the lat/lon seems to circle around a bit, I assume >because of the SA. It looks as though there is a random pattern put on the >signal all the time that lets it wobble in a circle - CEP (circular error >probable, as we missileers used to say) of a hundred meters or so? If the >SA is ever actually "off" you couldn't prove it by my readings. > - Gordon White A-275 Gordon... No, you're not seeing things. The spec for SA dithering is <100 meters 95% of the time, so that the bad guy will have that big a CEP when trying to hit a hardened missile silo which needs a *direct* hit. An interesting real-time display of SA in action is at; http://www.op.dlr.de/~igex98op/monitor/monitor.htm and then select "horizontal position error". If they were plotting a differentially corrected position, the circle would be around 10 meters or less. A colleague of mine used to broadcast excellent differential corrections from some precise equipment here at Goddard, over the Bay on a ham radio frequency so the tracking was rock solid. You can get (almost) as good yourself by buying a differential receiver and tuning in the Coast Guard 's differential signal. Or more fun, build one of your own. See: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/kitsf.html if you are handy with a soldering iron. Cheers, Bob Kirk Isobar #181 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Backup-The Easiest Way to Protect and Access your files. Automatic backups and off-site storage of your critical data. Install your FREE trial today and have a chance to WIN a digital camera! Click here. http://click.egroups.com/1/1830/4/_/476031/_/951849446/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951849462.0 From finnus505 at aol.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:39 2000 From: finnus505 at aol.com (finnus505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:37:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] access hatch Message-ID: <78.2045666.25ebfe53@aol.com> From: finnus505 at aol.com In a message dated 2/28/00 9:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << cond Lee's message. My boat had a similar, about 18 x 22 Bomar hatch installed when it was re-engined with a diesel and I would not be without it. Mine, too, "gives" a little when you step on it, but it has been on the boat more than 10 years and no one has gone through it, nor has it seemed to weaken the boat any. - Gordon White A 275 >> Hi Gordon, If I remember correctly, the cockpit hatch on your boat is one of the smoked glass bomars, that would otherwise serve as a real hatch for the forcabin etc, right? The Bomar I installed is sold as an access panel, and is made of white plastic, opaque, and has a plastic frame that mounts to the boat, not an aluminum frame. Do I remember correctly? If so, the hatch you have is indeed stronger than this access panel, and so your hatch would not require extra protection, as it is designed to be walked on . Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party! http://click.egroups.com/1/1635/4/_/476031/_/951853342/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951755859.0 From rap1208 at aol.com Tue Feb 29 11:47:57 2000 From: rap1208 at aol.com (rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:47:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] GPS Message-ID: From: rap1208 at aol.com Yep Gordon, My experience too, thats 300 ft on the water....enough to put me on the rocks if I trusted It. I figure those things are great at sea, but not along costal waters where I am Russ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets you see, consolidate, and manage all of your finances all in one place. http://click.egroups.com/1/1636/4/_/476031/_/951853683/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951853677.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Feb 29 19:12:49 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:49 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GPS mount References: <37.1d8567c.25e97a81@aol.com> <4.2.2.20000228122438.00d28c10@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> <4.2.2.20000229131146.00d6ac20@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <38BC8AB1.DC5CA2C2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, So you think the GPS can measure 5 knots based on the doppler shift of the relative movement between your boat and the satellite? I don't think so. And if you could measure your speed unaffected by the SA, you'd also be able to measure your location unaffected by the SA. Time, speed, distance. They're related. I think the better performance you're seeing is the fact that the GPS manufacturers have better algorithms for averaging to avoid obvious jitters. - George Robert Kirk wrote: > > From: Robert Kirk > > George Dinwiddie commented on GPS speed calculations: > > >Nope, in fact, you can watch the speed go all over the place > >when they're doing a lot of dithering and the GPS is stationary. > >The speed is just a distance over time calculation. Distance is > >change in location. The location moves because of the dithering. > > George... That's wrong; you must have missed my other message where I say: > > >GPS speed is calculated (by all the manufacturers, now, I believe) from the > >satellites' doppler and not by differentiating their positions. So, to > >first order, SA is not a factor in the speed calculation once you get > >underway with more than a knot or two of speed. > > You're right that the GPS position (and speed) does wander when you're > stationary due to SA effects. (If you get differential correction, this > wander nearly disappears.) But as I said, the speed is rock solid once you > get underway. The reason is that the GPS does not do a distance over time > calculation, but calculates speed from the satellites measured doppler > which is accurate and not affected by SA. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit > you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/914/4/_/476031/_/951848600/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2066/4/_/476031/_/951880187/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951880369.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Feb 29 23:17:26 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:17:26 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit hatch References: <951899181.26959@onelist.com> Message-ID: <38BCC405.60D068DC@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Lee, You're right about my hatch, though it is not like the forward hatch at least on my boat, in fact is a LOT stronger than the fore hatch or at least has a metal frame not a wood frame. - Gordon (A275) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PickupTruck.Com: The Premier Online Community for Pickup Truck Enthusiasts! Featuring the Latest News, Weekly NASCAR Driver Diary, Discussions and Chat, Purchase Accessories and Research and Shop for a New Truck. http://click.egroups.com/1/2053/4/_/476031/_/951913200/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 951895046.0