From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4330 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6997 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
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> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4330 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6997 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
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> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4330 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6997 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
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> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4330 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6997 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
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> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947706340.0 From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707328.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707934.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947724070.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947721782.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947732287.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947726048.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947725899.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947744185.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748397.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748562.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763668.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763822.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947772042.0 From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947792810.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947793613.0 From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815454.0 From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947817567.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815903.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947822111.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947859042.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947862532.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947865381.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947868798.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947866960.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869267.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869428.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947880410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947889587.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947849208.0 From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947805642.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947918861.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913088.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947912872.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913897.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913703.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948053134.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948048982.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948078100.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948070361.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948082526.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948093664.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948121103.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948122378.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948124398.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948135212.0 From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948136431.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4343 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948144400.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948145426.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948149478.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948151522.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948161135.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948164699.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170497.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175242.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175909.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948176991.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948177275.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170163.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948201732.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948204015.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948207193.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948210322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948212108.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948213055.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948214518.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948216981.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218079.0 From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948217828.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218677.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948225094.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948226375.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948229997.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948235109.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948247948.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948243014.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948255187.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948244271.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249297.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249224.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948250854.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948251754.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948234619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948273339.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948285821.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948287830.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948292151.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293054.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293203.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294523.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294543.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294935.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948295093.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948296359.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302110.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302782.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948305100.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314011.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314536.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948315124.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948316726.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333650.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334338.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334206.0 From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948332860.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330147.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330646.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948329870.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948335000.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948336007.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333484.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine 948342174.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948343856.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948344908.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948346320.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948347358.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362298.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362727.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948363064.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948380574.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391427.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391799.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392793.0 From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392986.0 From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948404870.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948406155.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948407627.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408368.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948413337.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948414703.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422265.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422860.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948424338.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427293.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427938.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948428935.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948430055.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461291.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461388.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948474317.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948483112.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948491226.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948493994.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494941.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494923.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496331.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496789.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948497953.0 From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948498764.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510549.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948499792.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948500205.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948501126.0 From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948503973.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504123.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504168.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948488990.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510559.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948521922.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948522284.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523561.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523801.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556642.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556880.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560956.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560117.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562811.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562258.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948561340.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948564368.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948587081.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948590313.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6998 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948593984.0 From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948597506.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948600675.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948604457.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948613546.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948634813.0 From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948649593.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948656277.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948666798.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948672432.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948723486.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725711.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725883.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948726720.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948730904.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948731128.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948732688.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735024.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735418.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948740528.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948754024.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948786119.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948844010.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948855135.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948861105.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948900983.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948941953.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948946255.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949078357.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081617.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081951.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082234.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082458.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949088511.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949114529.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949124749.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949130213.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949155513.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949157787.0 From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949176808.0 From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949210265.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949199187.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200214.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200220.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202337.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202967.0 From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949233235.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949242600.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949246002.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949248356.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949256706.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949274671.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949284842.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949289530.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949297463.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949298619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949316456.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949302394.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949318824.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327229.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327688.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949330470.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949331359.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949333590.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949334375.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949339428.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949340320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341333.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341000.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341887.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949345336.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949353152.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949354628.0 From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949363429.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949365965.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949368070.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372548.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372916.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949390307.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947706340.0 From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707328.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707934.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947724070.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947721782.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947732287.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947726048.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947725899.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947744185.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748397.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748562.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763668.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763822.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947772042.0 From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947792810.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947793613.0 From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815454.0 From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947817567.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815903.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947822111.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947859042.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947862532.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947865381.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947868798.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947866960.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869267.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869428.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947880410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947889587.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947849208.0 From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947805642.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947918861.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913088.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947912872.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913897.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913703.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948053134.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948048982.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948078100.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948070361.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948082526.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948093664.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948121103.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948122378.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948124398.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948135212.0 From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948136431.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4343 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948144400.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948145426.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948149478.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948151522.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948161135.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948164699.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170497.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175242.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175909.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948176991.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948177275.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170163.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948201732.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948204015.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948207193.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948210322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948212108.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948213055.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948214518.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948216981.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218079.0 From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948217828.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218677.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948225094.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948226375.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948229997.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948235109.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948247948.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948243014.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948255187.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948244271.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249297.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249224.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948250854.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948251754.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948234619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948273339.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948285821.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948287830.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948292151.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293054.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293203.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294523.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294543.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294935.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948295093.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948296359.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302110.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302782.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948305100.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314011.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314536.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948315124.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948316726.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333650.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334338.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334206.0 From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948332860.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330147.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330646.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948329870.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948335000.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948336007.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333484.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine 948342174.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948343856.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948344908.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948346320.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948347358.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362298.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362727.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948363064.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948380574.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391427.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391799.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392793.0 From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392986.0 From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948404870.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948406155.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948407627.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408368.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948413337.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948414703.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422265.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422860.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948424338.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427293.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427938.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948428935.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948430055.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461291.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461388.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948474317.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948483112.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948491226.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948493994.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494941.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494923.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496331.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496789.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948497953.0 From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948498764.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510549.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948499792.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948500205.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948501126.0 From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948503973.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504123.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504168.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948488990.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510559.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948521922.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948522284.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523561.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523801.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556642.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556880.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560956.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560117.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562811.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562258.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948561340.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948564368.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948587081.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948590313.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6998 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948593984.0 From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948597506.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948600675.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948604457.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948613546.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948634813.0 From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948649593.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948656277.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948666798.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948672432.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948723486.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725711.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725883.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests!
> > Sign up for eLerts at:
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> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948726720.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948730904.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948731128.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948732688.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735024.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735418.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948740528.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948754024.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948786119.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948844010.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948855135.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948861105.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948900983.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948941953.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948946255.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949078357.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081617.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081951.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082234.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082458.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949088511.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949114529.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949124749.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949130213.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949155513.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949157787.0 From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949176808.0 From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949210265.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949199187.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200214.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200220.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202337.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202967.0 From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949233235.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949242600.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949246002.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949248356.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949256706.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949274671.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949284842.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949289530.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949297463.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949298619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949316456.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949302394.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949318824.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327229.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327688.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949330470.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949331359.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949333590.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949334375.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949339428.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949340320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341333.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341000.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341887.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949345336.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949353152.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949354628.0 From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949363429.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949365965.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949368070.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372548.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372916.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949390307.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947706340.0 From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707328.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707934.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947724070.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947721782.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947732287.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947726048.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947725899.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947744185.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748397.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748562.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763668.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763822.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947772042.0 From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947792810.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947793613.0 From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815454.0 From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947817567.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815903.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947822111.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947859042.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947862532.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947865381.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947868798.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947866960.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869267.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869428.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947880410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947889587.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947849208.0 From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947805642.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947918861.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913088.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947912872.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913897.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913703.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948053134.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948048982.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948078100.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948070361.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948082526.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948093664.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948121103.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948122378.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948124398.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948135212.0 From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948136431.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4343 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948144400.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948145426.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948149478.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948151522.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948161135.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948164699.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170497.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175242.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175909.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948176991.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948177275.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170163.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948201732.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948204015.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948207193.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948210322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948212108.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948213055.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948214518.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948216981.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218079.0 From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948217828.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218677.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948225094.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948226375.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948229997.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948235109.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948247948.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948243014.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948255187.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948244271.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249297.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249224.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948250854.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948251754.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948234619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948273339.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948285821.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948287830.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948292151.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293054.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293203.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294523.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294543.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294935.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948295093.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948296359.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302110.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302782.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948305100.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314011.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314536.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948315124.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948316726.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333650.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334338.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334206.0 From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948332860.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330147.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330646.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948329870.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948335000.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948336007.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333484.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine 948342174.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948343856.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948344908.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948346320.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948347358.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362298.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362727.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948363064.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948380574.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391427.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391799.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392793.0 From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392986.0 From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948404870.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948406155.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948407627.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408368.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948413337.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948414703.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422265.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422860.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948424338.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427293.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427938.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948428935.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948430055.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461291.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461388.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948474317.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948483112.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948491226.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948493994.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494941.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494923.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496331.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496789.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948497953.0 From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948498764.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510549.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948499792.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948500205.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948501126.0 From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948503973.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504123.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504168.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948488990.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510559.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948521922.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948522284.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523561.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523801.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556642.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556880.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560956.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560117.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562811.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562258.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948561340.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948564368.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948587081.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948590313.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6998 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948593984.0 From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948597506.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948600675.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948604457.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948613546.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948634813.0 From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948649593.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948656277.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948666798.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948672432.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948723486.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725711.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725883.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests!
> > Sign up for eLerts at:
> > http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/elerts1 ">Click Here
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948726720.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948730904.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948731128.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948732688.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735024.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735418.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948740528.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948754024.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948786119.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948844010.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948855135.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948861105.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948900983.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948941953.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948946255.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949078357.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081617.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081951.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082234.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082458.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949088511.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949114529.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949124749.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949130213.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949155513.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949157787.0 From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949176808.0 From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949210265.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949199187.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200214.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200220.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202337.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202967.0 From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949233235.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949242600.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949246002.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949248356.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949256706.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949274671.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949284842.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949289530.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949297463.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949298619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949316456.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949302394.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949318824.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327229.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327688.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949330470.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949331359.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949333590.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949334375.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949339428.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949340320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341333.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341000.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341887.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949345336.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949353152.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949354628.0 From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949363429.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949365965.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949368070.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372548.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372916.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949390307.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947706340.0 From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707328.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707934.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947724070.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947721782.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947732287.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947726048.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947725899.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947744185.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748397.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748562.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763668.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763822.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947772042.0 From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947792810.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947793613.0 From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815454.0 From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947817567.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815903.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947822111.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947859042.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947862532.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947865381.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947868798.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947866960.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869267.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869428.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947880410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947889587.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947849208.0 From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947805642.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947918861.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913088.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947912872.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913897.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913703.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948053134.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948048982.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948078100.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948070361.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948082526.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948093664.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948121103.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948122378.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948124398.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948135212.0 From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948136431.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4343 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948144400.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948145426.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948149478.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948151522.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948161135.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948164699.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170497.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175242.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175909.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948176991.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948177275.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170163.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948201732.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948204015.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948207193.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948210322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948212108.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948213055.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948214518.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948216981.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218079.0 From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948217828.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218677.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948225094.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948226375.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948229997.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948235109.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948247948.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948243014.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948255187.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948244271.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249297.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249224.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948250854.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948251754.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948234619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948273339.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948285821.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948287830.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948292151.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293054.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293203.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294523.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294543.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294935.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948295093.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948296359.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302110.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302782.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948305100.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314011.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314536.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948315124.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948316726.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333650.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334338.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334206.0 From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948332860.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330147.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330646.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948329870.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948335000.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948336007.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333484.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine 948342174.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948343856.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948344908.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948346320.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948347358.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362298.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362727.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948363064.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948380574.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391427.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391799.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392793.0 From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392986.0 From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948404870.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948406155.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948407627.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408368.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948413337.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948414703.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422265.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422860.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948424338.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427293.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427938.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948428935.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948430055.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461291.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461388.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948474317.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948483112.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948491226.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948493994.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494941.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494923.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496331.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496789.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948497953.0 From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948498764.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510549.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948499792.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948500205.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948501126.0 From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948503973.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504123.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504168.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948488990.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510559.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948521922.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948522284.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523561.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523801.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556642.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556880.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560956.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560117.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562811.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562258.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948561340.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948564368.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948587081.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948590313.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6998 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948593984.0 From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948597506.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948600675.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948604457.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948613546.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948634813.0 From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948649593.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948656277.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948666798.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948672432.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948723486.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725711.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725883.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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> > >
> > >
> >
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> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948726720.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948730904.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948731128.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948732688.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735024.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735418.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948740528.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948754024.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948786119.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948844010.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948855135.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948861105.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948900983.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948941953.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948946255.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949078357.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081617.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081951.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082234.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082458.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949088511.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949114529.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949124749.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949130213.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949155513.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949157787.0 From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949176808.0 From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949210265.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949199187.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200214.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200220.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202337.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202967.0 From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949233235.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949242600.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949246002.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949248356.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949256706.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949274671.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949284842.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949289530.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949297463.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949298619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949316456.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949302394.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949318824.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327229.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327688.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949330470.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949331359.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949333590.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949334375.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949339428.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949340320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341333.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341000.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341887.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949345336.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949353152.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949354628.0 From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949363429.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949365965.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949368070.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372548.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372916.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949390307.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Wed Jan 12 10:27:27 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:27 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Ice boxes Message-ID: <002501bf5d2a$d3e25ba0$8a4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I would be most interested in hearing about improvements to the top-loading ice box as found on the later hulls. Is there any insulation at all between the liner and the hull? Can the counter top be removed without serious damage? Skybird #522 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JPhipps at asf.com Wed Jan 12 11:45:40 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:45:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB4075424@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947706340.0 From johncrouch at mail.com Wed Jan 12 12:02:08 2000 From: johncrouch at mail.com (John Crouch) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <384303363.947707328461.JavaMail.root@web38.pub01> From: John Crouch Dear Mr. Phipps There is only thing on this planet more bullet proof than an Alberg 30 and that is our President, William Jefferson Clinton. The rest is just icing on the cake. JKC ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: January 12, 2000 7:45:40 PM GMT Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 From: Jack Phipps I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page that has a list of websites. This seems like a very cool boat. Thanks for your help. Jack Phipps Applied Science Fiction -------------------------------- ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707328.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 12 12:12:14 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <008101bf5d39$549604a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" http://members.xoom.com/steve_botts/Other_boats/boat_links.htm Jack, Try the above link, or search for "Alberg 30" for any other sites. BTW, I am also new to the Alberg 30 list--as something of an imposter! I do not own an A30, but I do own a 1963 Triton, on which the A30 is loosely based--and penned by the same designer. Because of the many similarities, I thought eavesdropping on this list would be interesting. I am in the midst of a thorough renovation and am trying to absorb as much information as possible. Good luck with your new boat. Tim Lackey Glissando, Pearson Triton # 381 www.geocities.com/triton_glissando (for renovation information) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phipps To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 14:48 Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 >From: Jack Phipps > >I am considering buying a part interest in an Alberg 30. I have subscribed >to this list to get more information about the boat. Can anyone recommend >some websites where I can study them further or better yet, maybe a page >that has a list of websites. > >This seems like a very cool boat. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jack Phipps >Applied Science Fiction > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947707934.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:10 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:41:10 EST Subject: [alberg30] Spinaker Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com who was looking for a second hand spinaker? there are two on EBay auctions right now. take a look. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947724070.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 16:03:02 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: 13 Jan 2000 00:03:02 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi everyone, I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. Paul Shields West Springfield, MA --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947721782.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 12 18:58:07 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:58:07 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just love this boat. Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947732287.0 From apk2 at home.com Wed Jan 12 17:14:08 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/12/2000 at 5:41 PM FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: >From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > >Hi Sanders, and George, > >Too bad about the GLAA not having the lofting lines. I tried to print the >standing rigging diagram, but only could get the aft 1/3!!! Oh well. > >I tried calling Boyle Boat Works again, to follow up on my call from last >week as noone returned my call-now that phone number, the one that is in our >directory for their ad-is disconnected. I sent Mr. Boyle an email at the the >address given at the GLAA site, and we'll see if he answers that. > >George- you said you know Bill Boyle and that he is a nice guy. Any chance >you could contact him, and find out once and for all if he has the original >Alberg Drawings, and if the Association could make an arrangement to get >them, copy them, or something? If Bill does have them, and they are not being >used and their future is uncertain, it would be a shame if they are lost or >destroyed. > >regards, >Lee >Stargazer #255 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947726048.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 12 17:11:39 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:11:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: Message-ID: <387D264B.9446170C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, I've talked with Bill a number of times at various Annual Dinners, but haven't seen him in a number of years. Let's wait and see about the drawings that John Birch mentioned. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947725899.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 22:16:25 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:25 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: <8d.ae3ad6.25aec7b9@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947744185.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:26:37 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:26:37 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <37.55dc82.25aed82d@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Jack, My boat is for sale. She is a late 68, titled as a 69, # 251, good condition, very well equiped, swin lader, traveler, 2 speed winches instruments, ( wind, log, speed, depth) 2 compass, 4 opening ports, dodger, and other stuff. Boston sails, Spin gear. I'm in the great lakes area, Lk St Clare. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748397.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 23:29:22 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:29:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] Considering an Alberg 30 Message-ID: <71.316920.25aed8d2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Buy the way, please don't compare Clinton with an Alberg. Algergs are dependable, hardly ever let you down, can be trusted, and don't lie, whats to compare? Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947748562.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:41:08 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:41:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 References: <947721782.29565@onelist.com> Message-ID: <003201bf5dbb$166a5c80$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Paul, "Zevulun" is for sale. She is a 1964 hull #33. Take a look at www.yachtworld.com. She is based in Cheboygan, MI., but I will transport in most cases. "Zevulun" is structurally very sound with no delamination or leaks. She has a universal diesel. Let me know if you are interested. I also have a recent(last summer) survey. John Bailey "Zevulun" #33 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 > From: PShi914124 at aol.com > > Hi everyone, > > I posted a couple of inquiries here last fall about my search for an Alberg 30. I have been away from the marketplace for a little bit but now find myself wanting an A30 more than ever! > > If you have a vessel for sale, or know of one please let me know. I live in Southern New England so anything close by would obviously be easiest. I will however respond to all! > > Thanks again. Hope to meet some of you at an A30 Rendevous. > > Paul Shields > West Springfield, MA > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763668.0 From baileyje at voyager.net Thu Jan 13 03:43:42 2000 From: baileyje at voyager.net (John Bailey) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:43:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker References: <387D3F3F.36F2@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <003901bf5dbb$7214da60$2c535dd8@freeway.net> From: "John Bailey" Anne, I had never stepped foot on a sailboat before last summer. "Zevulun" was my first boat. I had a great time all summer and am really hooked on sailing now. You could not have chosen better. John Bailey "Zevulun" ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Filinich To: Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker > From: Dick Filinich > > Anne:I had 20 hours sailing before I bought my boat and mostly > singlehand,have had myself in a few situations and learned some things > pretty quick,but the boat is forgiving.You're experienced ,you will just > love this boat. > > Dick "High Spirits"#191 Galliano,La. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947763822.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 13 06:00:42 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Boyle update, re A30 plans References: <200001122014080560.004997D3@mail> Message-ID: <387DDA8A.63697507@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Alan, Please don't post them to the list. Large binaries cause problems for some people. (I wish I had a cable modem!) Instead, go to http://www.onelist.com/files/alberg30/plans/ and upload them. Then post a message saying they're there. - George "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > I can send the GLAA jpg's in areduced size to anybody who wants them. They are currently (sailplan) 28inX22in at 72dpi. I reduced mine to 8.5X11 which let them be about 180dpi. Looks nice on photopaper through a photoprinter. > If you can't reduce them, let me know and I'll post them to the group. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947772042.0 From Mpete53 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 11:46:50 2000 From: Mpete53 at aol.com (Mpete53 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] top loading ice chest Message-ID: From: Mpete53 at aol.com While I know that my retro fit insulation is far from ideal. It seemed to work well for my needs. Most of my sailing is day sailing, I load up a small cooler at home and that is it. But we have taken a few cruses. The first trip I fed the ice monster at a resounding rate and decided that something had to be done. The next year, 4 days before we left on our cruse and the same old ice box, what to do? I took 2 2ft by 8ft by 1 inch sheets of Styrofoam insulation, a razor blade knife and a ruler and lined the inside of the box. I know that it's not as good a job as most would want and it did reduce the volume if the box, but it does help a lot. Mark --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947792810.0 From PShi914124 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:00:13 2000 From: PShi914124 at aol.com (PShi914124 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:00:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] WTB: Alberg 30 Message-ID: From: PShi914124 at aol.com Hi, I checked out the ad in Yachtworld.com. Saw the pics. She looks good from here! I would like to see the survey you had done. If you can email it to me that would be fine. If you would rather post it to me you can send it to: Paul Shields 1305 Riverdale Street West Springfield, MA 01089 Please list aany relevant ifo pertaining to maintenance done by you, and any inventory included with the boat. Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more about Zevulun. Paul Shields --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947793613.0 From admin at cruisenews.net Thu Jan 13 18:04:14 2000 From: admin at cruisenews.net (Paul VandenBosch) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:04:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN Message-ID: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> From: Paul VandenBosch There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south of the Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New Buffalo and Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking price is $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years and may be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. Paul VandenBosch The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories http://cruisenews.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815454.0 From annes at chesapeake.net Thu Jan 13 18:39:27 2000 From: annes at chesapeake.net (annes at chesapeake.net) Date: 14 Jan 2000 02:39:27 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Matchmaker Message-ID: <947817567.32324@onelist.com> From: annes at chesapeake.net Thanks to all for the positive words. Special thanks to Russ for the glowing review of Matchmaker. I have purchased "This Old Boat" and Calper's tome on mechanical and electrical systems. I will be an old woman before that one gets finished. I have alerted the surveyor about the teak decks. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again. Anne --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947817567.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:08:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30 for Sale, Michigan City, IN References: <01BF5E0E.5EB77E20.admin@cruisenews.net> Message-ID: <387E8501.C03B7F98@csinet.net> From: Jim The direction should be corrected to read East on Rt 12 going into New Buffalo,Mi. from Michigan City.Not very far from the Stae lines either. I looked at the boat a couple of times. It has a Diesel. Lots of work needed. Jim Paul VandenBosch wrote: > From: Paul VandenBosch > > There is an Alberg 30 for sale in Michigan City, Indiana, just south > of the > Michigan/Indiana line on the old Chicago Drive highway between New > Buffalo and > Michigan City (head south on the main drag in New B.). The asking > price is > $10,000. Its been there on a trailer of sorts for at least two years > and may > be in rough shape. The name is Easy, out of Chicago. > > Next time I make my way to the Windy I'll get the phone number. > > Paul VandenBosch > The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories > http://cruisenews.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail5C.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Thu Jan 13 18:11:43 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:11:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <387E85DF.E5D4929F@csinet.net> From: Jim Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot work? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947815903.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Thu Jan 13 19:55:11 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails Message-ID: <001501bf5e43$29fe1380$17cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Jim, go to the sailrite homepage. They have a database which gives the dimensions of the sail. I think the URL is www.sailrite.com Brian Zinser Manana #134 -----Original Message----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [alberg30] Main Sails >From: Jim > >Can anyone please give me the Main Sail dimensions that the Alberg 30 >uses. I have seen the sail plan drawings and would like to know what the >exact sail dimensions are. Would a 31ft 6in. luff and 13ft 6in foot >work? > Jim > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947822111.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 06:10:42 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:10:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/13/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << Lee I'm wondering what, or how you did to get at the insulation in the Ice chest. I think I ned to do that. Rus Pfeiffer >> Hi Russ, Ugh, it was an ugly job. I took out the inside of the ice box with a saws-all, an old milwaukee tool I have. In the choice between preserving the teak plywood exterior to get at the insulation, or the fiberglass interior, I chose to not disturb the teak. Granted, I could have removed the bungs from the teak, unfastened it, replaced the insulation, then replaced the teak, but it would have meant refinishing the teak, once the varnish was disturbed, and I really like the 'patina' of the 33 year old varnish. It is in good shape, and once you sand it off and refinish, it would not look as nice for another 33 years!! If you look in Cruising World and Soundings, etc. new insulation materials are advertised that sound excellent, and with the location by the engine, probably necessary. I haven't decided which one I am going to go with when I get back to this project. Remember, I have the 'old' front loading ice box, pre-hull 400 or so design. If you have the 'new' top loading ice box, and the exterior is formica, it might be easier to dissasemble the OUTSIDE, replace the insulation, and then rebuild the icebox around the new insulation. then the molded inside of the icebox will remain intact. On my boat, the inside was a heavy, nicely made fiberglass and gelcoated molding, and I felt bad cutting it up. It will be a bit of work replacing it, I'm sure. The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947859042.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 14 07:08:52 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] icebox, etc References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <387F3C04.93ED52E6@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Hi, folks! Discussion of icebox has been very interesting. We just assumed the proximity of the cold water made a heat sink. In our waters it has generally been OK even in original condition. For anyone who keeps track of such things, our icebox is the "new version", so the change would have been at or before #369. On another subject entirely, I watched with huge admiration the welcome and encouragement to a new owner. What a marvellous community! It's really good to know you! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947862532.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Fri Jan 14 07:56:21 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:56:21 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners Message-ID: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any comments appreciated. Bob Lincoln #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947865381.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:53:18 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:53:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947868798.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 08:22:40 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <387F4D50.5B1C27@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Bob, What your describe sounds the same as my boat. I'm sure that's the original configuration. You can see the drawing I made in my recent Mainsheet article on accessing the rudder post stuffing box. - George Bob Lincoln wrote: > > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947866960.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:01:07 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:01:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] freshwater cooling Message-ID: <947869267.15083@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I tried to post yesterday but didn't see a resulting message. Sorry if this is a duplicate. I'm think I'm interested in putting freshwater cooling on my A4 equipped A30 because I want to keep the engine running as long as possible. Does anyone have any opinions of the benefit? Experiences? I know that Don Moyer and Indigo have freshwater cooling kits for the A-4: are there others? Thanks in advance. Kevin Blanc TheBlancs at cs.com Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869267.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 09:03:48 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:03:48 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947869428.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 14 12:06:50 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <8e.144baa.25b08862@aol.com> Message-ID: <007001bf5ecc$0fca03a0$a14066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I installed an electric fuel pump and regulator well away from the engine in the port lazarette. This could save a lot of the cutting mentioned. I an eagerly watching for any tips on modifying the later type top-loading ice box. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation chest. > The reason I felt obligated to tackle this job in the first place, had little > to do with keeping my food cold, but rather to get access to my engine. When > the previous owner installed the rebuilt Volvo MD 11C, he paid little > attention to maintanance access, and there was no way to visualize the fuel > pump, which is on the left side of the engine, right up against the ice box. > Because of the location of the engine in the A30, and the configuration of > the Volvo,it was not the best choice for this boat. He had cut a 'tunnel' in > the bulkhead under the ice box, but lying on the bunk, with your arms in this > tunnel, you couldn't see what you were doing. If the fuel pump diaghrgm ever > needed replacing while I was out, I would be sunk. The only way to be able > to get to the fuel pump in a realistic way was to remove the bottom of the > ice box. What I am going to do, is rebuild the ice box in such a way that > the bottom of the ice box is removeable, ie; It will be like a tray, 6 inches > deep to accomodate melting ice water and still be waterproof, and this 'tray' > will seal on a waterproof lip, 6 inches up from the bottom of the > compartment. I'll fit the tray with a drain, etc. If engine trouble rears > it's ugly head, we can put the ice and food in coolers, take the tray out, > and really see the engine. I hate having to do surgery at the end of dark > tunnels- I like being able to see what I am doing. Likewise, the cockpit > sole access hatch lets me really get to my water pump on the back of the > engine, and those pesky cockpit scupper seacocks. > Hope this helps, > Lee > Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947880410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 14 14:39:47 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: Message-ID: <387FA5B3.9A175EA2@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie There are several articles on insulating the icebox in the Maintenance Manual. Be very careful with the expanding foam insulation. That stuff expands A LOT and, if confined, can blow up your cabinetry. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > [snip] It occurs to me that one might cut a > couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, > and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would > that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox > and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the > icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such > a project? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947889587.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Fri Jan 14 03:26:48 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:26:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners References: <000201bf5ea7$e6aefbc0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <001d01bf5e82$3f5c5b80$0100a8c0@henriette> From: Guy Lalonde Bob, sounds like mine. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lincoln To: Alberg30 at Onelist Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: [alberg30] Query cockpit locker liners > From: "Bob Lincoln" > > On the newer models with liners, were the original cockpit > locker sides made entirely of fiberglass or fiberglass and > plywood? On #590 the liners extend along the outside of the > hull and bottom and end in a flange that rises about 1/2 > inch on the inside edge, above the hull. Plywood was used > to join the flange to the bottom of the cockpit with > fiberglass tape. So are the lockers a composite > construction, or was an entire molded pan used, which then > on my boat was cut off when the engine was replaced? Any > comments appreciated. > Bob Lincoln > #590 Indigo > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947849208.0 From jlsasha at erols.com Thu Jan 13 15:20:42 2000 From: jlsasha at erols.com (JANET LEMBO) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: <947869428.6930@onelist.com> Message-ID: <387E5DCA.41A4@erols.com> From: JANET LEMBO TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > Does anyone have any experience on the benefits/drawbacks in putting a > three-blade prop on an A-4 equipped A30? We do more motoring/motorsailing > than pure sailing, and I'm interested in maximizing my powering potential > (even at the risk of - gasp - inducing more drag under sail). > > What size three-blade would be appropriate? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With a clean hull and a 13/7 prop on an atomic 4 hull speed is no problem. Under sail the prop can tuck behind. Joel --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947805642.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Fri Jan 14 16:17:12 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:12 EST Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I did the expanding foam insulation thing to my old-style icebox (two part foam from Read Plastics in Rockville). It helped. It also pushed the icebox liner in a little. The stuff really expands. I also found that a shop vac with a crevice tool "extended" (by duct-taping a flattened cardboard tube around it) helped me get the old insulation out - it didn't suck it into the vacuum so much as give me a way to grab chunks of it. Probably not great for the vacuum, but getting the stuff out isn't great for the sanity. Leave the vacuum in the cockpit or wear hearing protection. Or maybe your shop vac is quieter than mine... If i remember correctly, I crunched/cut up the foam with a thin strip of metal first. Frankly, though, what seems to help the most is to put a foam cushion (the inexpensive 3/4 - 1" thick ones that are often giveaways) on top of the ice BENEATH the deck opening. We found this is much more effective than a boat cushion atop the cockpit opening. I'm thinking of cutting the whole thing down and making a nice platform in its place for a 96 quart marine cooler - I'm only half joking. I know it wouldn't look great, but if you weekend the way we do, it's a lot easier to have the cooler loaded and just slip it in place than to load the icebox from the cooler and let everthing warm up while the icebox cools down. Then maybe glue up a little six-pack cooler under the cockpit opening for cold ones (soda for the kids I mean) in the cockpit... Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: George Dinwiddie Subject: Re: [alberg30] getting to insulation Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:39:47 -0500 Size: 2740 URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Fri Jan 14 22:47:41 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <77.a555fc.25b11688@cs.com> Message-ID: <3880180B.96EA691B@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Just a thought... Once you gained access to the area of the foam. Could you use a chemical that erodes the old insulation. Then re-inject (carefully) some expanding product. In a effort to for-go the dismantling of the box. Regards- Greg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947918861.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:11:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913088.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:07:52 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:07:52 EST Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com The Blanks For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you can tell. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947912872.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:24:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:24:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thanks Lee Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913897.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 21:21:43 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:21:43 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <73.6a53ae.25b15de7@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I have a suggestion for all you folks with the old style icechest. I freeze a large , 21/2 plastic container of drinking water. Don't open it. Ever. Put it at the back of the lower compartment. If you have a 1 gallon plastic jug of frozen water, put it here also. 2 blocks fit in the top, and a white seat cushion goes over it. I have had this combo keep things cold for many days before the bottom thaws out. You may have to replinsh the top Ice every once in a while, but we chip off a lot for gin and tonics, so we can't keep exact track. Give this a try befpre you tear the box apart. The bottom side of my lid has a stryofoam piece glued to it too. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 947913703.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sat Jan 15 23:51:14 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:51:14 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props Message-ID: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lalondegc at videotron.ca Sun Jan 16 05:56:35 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:56:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000b01bf6029$80d60ae0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, doesn't sound right to me, although I'm not a prop expert. I have a Volvo 2002 diesel (18 hp) with a reduction gear and a 3 blade prop (I don't have access to the boat right now so I don't know its dimensions). Anyhow, all this to say that I can reach 5 knots + below 2000 rpm. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 2:51 AM Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Thanks Russ for your comments. Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbcundif at csinet.net Sun Jan 16 07:02:05 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans References: <000a01a8f4fc$9b42cb60$098c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3881DD67.864A736B@csinet.net> From: Jim Joe #499, you have a date of Jan 17th,1980 on the date of e-mail transmission. You get caught in a time warp? Jim I.E. Subject: [alberg30] Bowsprit/anchor roller plans Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1980 18:06:23 -0600 From: "alberg30" Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com To: "Alberg 30 List" alberg30 wrote: > From: "alberg30" > > My bowsprit/anchor roller project is done. Check out the details > at: http://userweb.interactive.net/~alberg30/bowsprit.html This is the > technical part of an article in an upcoming issue of the Mainsheet, > entitled "One Less Finger." Thanks to Tom Sutherland and Jack Burkel > for copies of alternate plans. Thanks also to Bob Marshal who wrote > the original plans from the 1982 Maint. Manual. I will let you know > when I have photos of the mounted bowsprit. Joe #499"One Less > Traveled" > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailNT.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 12:05:34 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:05:34 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <3882248E.C7955BDA@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter, I would have to agree with Guy... the fact that you can't reach 5 knots without revving the engine that high sounds suspect. We have a 12hp Yanmar, with a 13 inch 3 blade and are able to make 5 knots at 2200rpm. If you were to go with a machine pitch 3 blade, it would increase torque at low rpm, but you would lose a lot of speed under sail... Regards, Chris Sousa > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948053134.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Sun Jan 16 10:56:22 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:56:22 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 References: Message-ID: <005701bf6053$61e4cd40$9e4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" I agree -- two blades, shaft marked with white paint, gearbox engaged. I changed to a 13 X 6 in '98 from a 13 X 7 only because it came as a spare with the boat. I feel this combination gives me a bit more speed and a happier engine -- but not that much. Skybird #522 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] three-blade prop for A-4 equipped A30 > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > The Blanks > For what it's worth, Ca Va came with a 12" x 6" 3 blade. I felt there was a > lot of drag under sail. You are always draging at least two blades out in > the water. Only one can be hidden behind the deadwood, as if you can easily > tell. I Put on a 13" 7" teo blade, and am happy with it. I get apros 6-6 > 1/4 knot at at 14hundred to 1450 rpm. The engine runs cool. I have some > engine rpm in reserve. I have no dificulty getting northbound under the > Blue Water bridge at Sarnia, where the current is about 6 knots. If you > install a 2 blade hide it behind the keel, and mark the shaft inside, so you > can tell. > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948048982.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 16 19:01:40 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:01:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props References: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <38828614.2E052A95@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Peter: We also noticed that you have a 2:1 ratio to transmission which is set up for gas engines that rev higher rpms. Need to be 1:1 ratio for diesel engine which would reduce the rpms's at higher boat speed. In addition to this look at the pitch of the prop. 12X8 is for a gas engine. Regards, Steve Sousa ***************************************************************** > Peter Amos wrote: > > From: "Peter Amos" > > I have a Westerbeke M320B 18hp diesel with 2:1 transmission > reduction. The prop is a 3 blade 12x8 . To get more than 5 knots I > have to use 3000+ revs. Is this about right for this combination of > motor and transmission or could I do better with a different prop? > Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? > Thanks Russ for your comments. > Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948078100.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 16 16:52:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 17 Jan 2000 00:52:41 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net They are asking 14.9 at one broker, 13.5 via another. The boat is in apparent stable condition, at least dry. The sail inventory is shallow and the main cover was torn leaving the main to the sun at the basin. The standing rigging is usable. And the main is okay, for now...it had been replace fairly recently. The Aux. is the old vitus 20 HP. It says 10 hours after a rebuild. The boat needs every TLC you can imagine related to woodwork, cleaning, fabric below. It is dirty. Most wood topside is salvageable but some is not. Below it all is. No survey available but I walked her, poked below as best I could. Boat doesn't stink. It does have a 2 burn propane, compass, Vhf depsounder and loran. 1 jib, SPinnaker and genoa, stay and storm sai.l. Tiller steering and the rest doesn't make up 100 dollars. The engine is noted for the reuild. The deck appears to have no stress fractures that I could tell, nor the cabin top. However: Around the ports there is some cracking and near the front and rear corners of the cabin are some stress fractures. Without a surveror, I couldn't tell more but I will, if an offer is going, have her hauled and surveyed. As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. >From what I have noted, the vessel has not been kept well, is not clean, and requires paint. I presume once hauled, a bottom paint job is in order. I would like the opinion of others who have witness what I have explained. If any are on the list from Texas area and have seen the boat, I would like to hear from you. My suspicion is I can dicker it down to half of what the lower offer is, and get it perhaps. Seller's wife won't get on the boat, hurt on the maiden voyage. This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. I will be trying to find out about that as well. I believe I found her and she is a truly troubled boat but I am not sure..... This boat might go for around 2 to 4K or something. But it has a lot of disturbing fractures topside, so I figure major major work.... Anyway. Thoughts please. Thanks, dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948070361.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Sun Jan 16 20:15:26 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] diesel-props Message-ID: <3882975E.29B8@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Peter:I have to agree with guy,doesn't sound right.If your in an area where your boat is in the water year round,your bottom could be covered with barnacles and oysters,you've got transmission problems,or maybe wheel.I have a Kubota diesel with 2:1 reduction with 12x6 prop two blade and cruise at 2000 rpm at 5 1/2 to 6 kts.Seems like your 3000 rpm's is high for a prop under load especially with your prop.I'd get in touch with Westerbeke and transmission manufacturer they should have some answers. Dick "High Spirits"#191 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948082526.0 From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:28:01 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:28:01 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.A.Amos at tesco.net Sun Jan 16 20:42:07 2000 From: P.A.Amos at tesco.net (Peter Amos) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:42:07 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors Message-ID: <002401bf60a5$825f0980$d04a8cd4@tinypc> From: "Peter Amos" Dick,thanks for your info,it came in when I sent my last message. No problem with the bottom,I did a paint job in November and when I was hauled at Green Turtle about two weeks ago it was still clean.I like your idea about contactng the engine and transmission manufacturers, why didnt I think of that? >From the feedback I've had so far on this subject I am becoming convinced that I need a prop change but maybe getting the right one is more of an art than a science. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 16 23:21:04 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:21:04 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Joe, Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! So much for the experts! Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948093664.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Mon Jan 17 06:58:23 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] 1980 to Y2k References: <948097293.21210@onelist.com> <3882C2E0.39653699@crosslink.net> Message-ID: <000f01bf60fb$4dbdb7c0$948c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I was stuck in a time warp! Such is the life of a mad scientist. I did a little Y2k fix and I think I'm ok now. Thanks for pointing it out, Joe#499 "One Less Traveled" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon White To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Digest Number 489 > From: Gordon White > > Joe, > Sounds as though your computer is a 486 that did not roll over on Y2K. My laptop went to 1980. All I had to do was go into control panel and tell it it was 2000. In some computers you have to tell them to use four digits. If that's all the Y2K bug amounted to it sure was no big deal! > So much for the experts! > Gordon White A-275 > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948121103.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:19:38 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 References: <948070361.24815@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883330A.990CEB1B@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dai, I feel as if I've come into the middle of a conversation, and I'm not quite sure of the context of your message. In any event, a couple of comments: > As I understand, the cabin and deck have a ply core. The early Alberg 30's were built with a masonite core. These have proved to be very durable. > This last broker has notes on a 68 Pearson 30 (alberg) as well. The Pearson 30 is quite a different boat, not an Alberg design. Pearson did make a 35 foot Alberg as well as some smaller boats, the Triton, Ariel, etc. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948122378.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:39:46 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:39:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> Message-ID: <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Russ, The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. - George Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file reader. You may already have that, as many documents are distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). If you have any trouble, let me know. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icebox.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 41791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 17 07:53:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation References: <54.7c9dae.25b15b80@aol.com> <388337C2.C7CEA2C4@min.net> Message-ID: <38833AEE.B880BBB6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie My apologies to everyone for sending a binary file to the list. It was operator error. I meant to send that directly to Russ. - George George Dinwiddie wrote: > > From: George Dinwiddie > > Russ, > > The new maintenance manual, while based on the old, isn't quite > the same. Anyway, I've attached the chapter on ice boxes. The > formatting didn't come out quite as neatly as it did when the > manual was printed, but that's the way old Word documents are. > > - George > > Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > > > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > > George, I don't have a matainance manual. All the while I belonged to the > > Chesapeake Association, it wasn't available. Any chance I could get copies > > of the article. I'm happy to pay for costs. > > Russ Pfeiffer > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One or more of the attached files is in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) > format. Viewing a PDF file requires an Adobe Acrobat file > reader. You may already have that, as many documents are > distributed in this form, but you can download it for free from > Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html). > If you have any trouble, let me know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: icebox.pdf > icebox.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948124398.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 08:14:20 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:14:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props In-Reply-To: <002101bf5ff6$94bef7c0$5b1aac3e@tinypc> Message-ID: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop aperture. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM To: Alberg 30 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for boat and power combinations? Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 17 08:37:04 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 props TIP CLEARANCE References: <000f01bf6105$e98e4890$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <38834521.E383580C@idirect.com> From: John Birch Tip clearances according to Skene's is 10% of Prop Diameter for a 2 blade, 15% of Prop Diameter for a 3 blade. I.e. A 10" prop dia requires a 1.5" tip clearance minimum, for a 3 blade, from any part of the boat or aperture in that plane. Cheers, John Bob Lincoln wrote: > From: "Bob Lincoln" > A web site regarding propeller selection is ...www.properpitch.com. > Generally speaking the Atomic 4 direct drive uses a smaller pitch and > has a higher rpm than diesels on the A30 that have a reduction gear > similar to yours. Check your engine specs to determine at what rpms > you develop maximum horsepower, and go from there. The older design > books also suggest what tip clearances you should have in the prop > aperture.Bob LincolnIndigo 590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Amos [mailto:P.A.Amos at tesco.net] > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:51 AM > To: Alberg 30 > Subject: [alberg30] A30 props > > From: "Peter Amos" [Bob Lincoln > commented:] ... Is there a site that gives prop sizes for > boat and power combinations?Peter Amos "Tait Tait" 478 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailGM.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12605 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\DOS\nsmailPE.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 10:53:32 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:53:32 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: <7c.9dd5b7.25b4bf2c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/14/00 11:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Lee, greetings. I read your account with interest. For those of us without engine access problems, your experience is still useful for what you found when you cut open your icebox. I wonder: Was the insulation cavity -- the space in which you found the styrofoam and newspapers laid in -- one continuous space, or was it baffled, or compartmentalized? It occurs to me that one might cut a couple of access holes in the interior of the box, pull out the old material, and fill it with some sort of injectable foam/gel sort of insulation. Would that seem to you -- having now had the exerpience of dismantling the icebox and having seen the interior construction -- to be a workable fix for the icebox? If so, do you have any suggestions about how best to proceed on such a project? Sanders McNew. >> Hi Sanders, No, there were no baffles of any kind inbetween the fiberglass liner and the wooden case. I think your solution to improving the insulation of the ice box should work fine. It will betough to break up the styrofoam sheets and fish out the pieces through holes in the liner, but not impossible.One caveat though- I did find some rot begining in the aft wall of the ice box, from where water had worked in through the cockpit access. The drain hoses that should have carried the water from the lip in the hatch were clogged, and the overflowing rain water had done the damage. When you cut your access holes, try to inspect as much of the wood as you can see, and if you find superficial soft wood, spraying some git rot or other thinned epoxy on the wood may be a good idea. The inside of the wooden case had no paint or finish on it at all, and sprayed foam insulation might trap moisture against it, causing rot to start. You might want to make the access holes big enough, or make enough small ones, so you could coat and seal the wood surface with epoxy, before spraying in the foam. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948135212.0 From phundawg at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:13:51 2000 From: phundawg at hotmail.com (Brent Evers) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:13:51 PST Subject: [alberg30] #435 history Message-ID: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Brent Evers" Hello all - I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know what to look for. Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at phundawg at hotmail.com Regards, Brent ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948136431.0 From kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov Mon Jan 17 15:03:43 2000 From: kirk at neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov (Robert Kirk) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:03:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Bay wind forecasts In-Reply-To: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000117150343.00749b4c@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4343 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsail at gte.net Mon Jan 17 13:03:21 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:03:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" hello all, rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RLeach at mbayaq.org Mon Jan 17 13:26:40 2000 From: RLeach at mbayaq.org (Rick Leach) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:26:40 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rick Leach Dan, In Sugar Magnolia I have a Whale Gusher Titan with a bulkhead mount (Part # MSBP4410); see West Marine #182239, list=$129.99 or Defender #BP4410, list=$103.05, 1999 prices. The pump itself is contained within the starboard seat locker and is mounted on the cockpit bulkhead about 18" aft of the bridgedeck. With the bulkhead mount the handle engages the pump from outside the locker. It's very easy to reach and operate while steering. I suppose it could be bigger for emergencies, but for normal use it's more than adequate. Hope this helps. Rick Leach Sugar Magnolia, #121 www.angelfire.com/ca/Alberg30 > ---------- > From: dan walker[SMTP:dsail at gte.net] > Reply To: alberg30 at onelist.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:03 PM > To: alberg list > Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump > > From: "dan walker" > > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a > bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i > would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the > cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done > this. any info will be appreciated > dan > _____ > > ONElist Sponsor > Please click above to support our sponsor > > _____ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948144400.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 13:43:46 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:43:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com I'll bet lots of folks have done this one... I put mine on the starboard side aft of the cockpit locker, on the vertical surface of the seat (if this were a stair, I'd call it the riser). It was fairly simple: cut a slot for the pump handle, paint/gook up its edges with calk, drill four mounting bolts to mount the pump, cut a hole in the hull well above the waterline for the exhaust through-hull. I can't remember the pump I used - a Gusher something I think... it has a faceplate which is used as the template for cutting slot/drilling the mounting holes. I'd only advise that you think about serviceability when you purchase and mount the pump. One reputable company claims that its pump can be completely torn down to clear clogs without the use of hand tools. I've taken mine apart just once, but it would've been nice to be able to do it without tools. Using a smooth-wall tube may increase pumping efficiency a little. And don't forget to get a check valve to mount somewhere near (but above the "highwater" mark of) the bilge. Otherwise you'll pump more to prime it than to rid the bilge of water. I've often thought about trying a sump pump check valve from Home Depot instead of a "Marinized" version... Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 alberg30 at onelist.com wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > hello all, > rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciated > dan > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948145426.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 17 14:51:18 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:51:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <69.c36c1.25b4e712@cs.com> Message-ID: <38839CDB.FECB6617@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Kevin ... InCahoots (#412) came with a Whale Gusher 10 Pump mounted just aft of the port cockpit locker lid. I believe this was a factory install . I have been needing to get it hooked back up and was wondering about a good way to keep the hose in the bilge. I like your idea about the Gal. pipe nipple. What size holes and approximately how many did you drill in the end cap ? Just thought i'd ask since it works good for you. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > ...Instead of buying a bilge strainer I put a piece of NPT galvie pipe > nipple at the bottom of the hose to weigh it down, then drilled a > bunch of holes in a PVC NPT pipe cap which threaded right on the pipe > nipple. Cheap and works just fine. It's positioned right so I can get > all but the bottom 1/4 inch or so clear of water. > > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948149478.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Mon Jan 17 15:25:22 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:22 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill bit and bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for 2" pipe, just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more and would assure that there was no decrease in flow. I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that might work even better... :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948151522.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Mon Jan 17 18:05:35 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:05:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <3883CA6F.B3C312FB@cc.umanitoba.ca> From: Bob Lincoln Dan Spurr in Upgrading the cruising sailboat suggests using a 1/8" ss rod bent in a u shape around the hose and seized with wire. I tried this, bending an old long bolt with the head ground off on one side. It seems to work. I located the hose by running it down the back of the aft bilge, until the bolt touched bottom. Then ran the hose up, away from the shaft as much as possible to the side of the lockers and out. Take the shortest route if you can. My whale pump is inside the port locker. I can't say that having to open the lid and pump has really been a problem, but a side lever would be more convenient. I cleaned out that bilge as best I could, but could not retrieve a plastic gas can top, so that will be my millennium time capsule. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ---------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948161135.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 17 19:04:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: 18 Jan 2000 03:04:59 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> From: dai at pdq.net I am going to spend Saturday on the boat, getting the feel, crawling through it and so on. The two brokers have it for 13.5 and 14.9k. I found further, the boat has been for sail for 14 months now and the owner has not been around. A survey was performed by a buyer last spring, and he backed out of the deal. The boat apparently has electrolysis damage on the rudder, prop shaft and thru hull and needs a paint job. Nothing was said about blisters. Of course, that is all the broker rep would say. Of course he doesn't have the survey, and the previous offer identity is unknown. So I know a bit more, but not enough. I have discussed this with a friend who owns a Bristol 29.9 and he is going to go over the boat with me on Saturday. I still think this boat is a worthy purchase, And since the acquisition is 10 or 11 months prior to the time I was prepared to make an offer I must be exceedingly careful. But the chance to buy this fine boat has me a bit anxious. If it doesn't work out, I will find something to sail Galveston bay for the year or two and work out a better arrangement later. Yet, This seems like a real opportunity to own and rebuild an Alberg boat to a class condition, not a marina pacer and floating party yacht for saturday night. I found from one of the various pages the close racing photo and it is now my PC Wallpaper. Supurb photo of a great boat. And if 50 ain't old, neither is 36 or so for a boat. She ought do well to Corpus and south, or cross to the out islands and beyond once I refit her. Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. Taking a mallot rubber and rawhide. some various cloth and cleaners to do some looking underneath. She needs paint top and bottom as is visible from the gunwales down though the top is decent in comparison. So to summarize, I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part is it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern accoutrements, but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. There is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. thanks, David Bell dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948164699.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 17 19:24:01 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:24:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors References: <001001bf60a3$6d014a00$d04a8cd4@tinypc> Message-ID: <000901bf6163$774f3740$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Peter, can't find anything in the engine manual about recommended cruising rev range. It is also a 2 cylinder and the max rpm is 3200. I would think the cruising range is probably 1500 - 2000 rpm range, but that's just a guess. Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Amos To: Alberg 30 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 11:28 PM Subject: [alberg30] A30 propellors From: "Peter Amos" Guy, it sounds as though you have the right combination, do you know what the recommended cruising rev's range is for your Volvo? For the Westerbeke it is 2600 to 3300 with a max of 3600.I dont have a problem with running at 3000+ revs,I just think I should be getting a better speed through the water. Steve and Chris, I agree about the 12x8 prop being for a gas engine, it was probably the A4 prop and not replaced with the change to the diesel .Not so sure though about your comment on the reduction gear,it comes as standard with the Westerbeke M320B diesel and Guy's 18hp Volvo 2002 also has it which would seem to confirm that it is O.K. Would a 2 cylinder 18hp diesel turn at the same revs as a 3cylinder 18hp diesel to produce the same hp? The more I get into this hp/prop/speed subject the more confused I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Mon Jan 17 20:41:37 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:41:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EEFB.F66EA82D@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg greg vandenberg wrote: > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all > cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. > Regards- Greg PS: check back a few days on the list and there was some comments regarding survey info. for a subject line called Checkmate > > dai at pdq.net wrote: > > > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Dai... Take along a moisture meter and know how to read the thing. Check all cored areas of the deck and especially around fittings and crazed areas. Regards- Greg dai at pdq.net wrote: > > From: dai at pdq.net > > > Again though, if any of you have any thoughts, on my checkout this coming > weekend, what to look for and so on, it would be greatly appreciated. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170497.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:00:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:00:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] 66 Alberg 30, 1966, and Pearson 30, 1968 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, I'm not even going to comment about that alberg, a do-it-yourself boat kit. The 6830 Pearson , I dont think is an Alberg, more like Shaw, I think, believe you are talking about a Wanderer, a sweet boat , if it's decent condition. Check the centerboard, and pennant. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175242.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:11:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:11:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] getting to insulation Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you very much George Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948175909.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:29:51 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:29:51 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, can you tell why two brokers have different prices? Of course you want to pick the lower one. And before you close the deal, make sure all yard bills are paid. Everything depends on condition. Get your own survey. It should cost about $300, but if he finds bad things, you can knock them of the price, or perhaps save $13K Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948176991.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 22:34:35 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:35 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump strainer simplified Message-ID: <5c.54026b.25b5637b@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com my boat has a large Whale pump in the Port locker. The handle is kept inside the locker, on a cord, then pulled out , inserted and used to pump. Stores back in the locker. Pump extends through the locker side Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948177275.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 17 20:36:03 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:03 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] cockpit bilge pump References: <948183483.3155@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3883EDB3.B5B71861@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White For what it's worth I installed a Whale diaphragm pump in the aft end of the cockpit. Works great except I did not measure well enough and on the downstroke the handle hits the top of the seat. Would have been better to have it more midships. MUCH better than the old Navy style up and down pumps. Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948170163.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 05:22:12 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948201732.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 06:00:15 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:00:15 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #435 history References: <20000117191351.97645.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <388471EF.24107721@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Brent, You probably already know all this, but that's Marjorie and Bill Goettle's boat. They've cruised it extensively and have decided they want a little more living space. You can view pictures of the boat and read a bit at Marjorie's web site: http://users.erols.com/mgoettle/indexal.html - George Brent Evers wrote: > > From: "Brent Evers" > > Hello all - > > I'm new to the list (as of a few weeks or months now). I've been reading, > and learning, and this has been a great source of info. A boat is on the > market which I am interested in looking at, and was wondering if anyone knew > any history/had any info on it. Name is Jubilant, and the hull is #435. I > haven't seen it yet, but the more info I know up front, the more I will know > what to look for. > > Thanks in advance, and you can email me any comment's off-list at > > phundawg at hotmail.com > > Regards, > > Brent > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948204015.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 06:53:13 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:53:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948207193.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 07:45:22 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:45:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <12.1093af0.25b4fee2@cs.com> Message-ID: <38848A45.61384E3F@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Thanks Kevin ! ... I will check out Home Depot . Might need the weight of the Gal pipe however to keep it in the bilge. Tom A30 #412 InCahoots TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > To make the "strainer" I used something around a 1/4" or 3/8" drill > bit and > bored as many holes as I could, leaving just 1/8" or so between them. > > I think the galvie fitting was 1-1/4". It might be good to use a PVC > adapter/bushing to increase the size of the end cap to that used for > 2" pipe, > just to get a little more strainer area. That wouldn't cost much more > and > would assure that there was no decrease in flow. > > I saw a PVC shower drain with a stainless cover at Home Depot that > might work > even better... :-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948210322.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 08:15:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:15:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Dan, Best choice for a cockpit bilge pump would be a Gusher or Edson diaghragm pump. Some of the models come with deck plate instalation options, so you could mount them on the for and aft bulkhead of the cockpit locker, and then, would not have to open the locker seat cover to use the pump. There are plastic and aluminum models-though the aluminum models are much more expensive initialy, they last much longer. I had a plastic one that was about 5 years old, and at a critical moment (another story) the socket where the handle went in just snapped off. I don't know where you are located, but if there is a West Marine, or other big marine equipment distributor near you, go see their selection, and talk to a sales person who KNOWS about bilge pumps. A hand bilge pump in the cockpit is an excellent idea, for the possibility of a 'zero hour' type situation, when you find yourself having to steer and pump at the same time. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948212108.0 From dai at pdq.net Tue Jan 18 08:30:55 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:30:55 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Timothy: Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found after the sale...even after a survey. The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the boat last weekend. Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or less.... but that is my guess. OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long time checking things out. Back to my researching.... Thanks very much, David Bell dai at pdq.net From: "Timothy C. Lackey" David, The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers given the condition of the boat. Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet restorable condition. I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited property is worth. Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be initially sad, but much happier in the long run. Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will lose money in the long run. The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can handle. Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find out. Tim Lackey Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) www.geocities.com/triton_glissando --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948213055.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Tue Jan 18 08:55:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:55:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <003e01bf61b7$083eb520$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> Message-ID: <38849AF6.5900F239@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Timothy, You give some good advice, but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books. The value of an Alberg 30 is dependent on condition, not age. BUC works too hard to make sure that their valuations give higher figures for newer boats. They tend to extrapolate from very skimpy data and this preconceived notion. The value of an Alberg 30 does seem to top out about $20,000 U.S. But an early boat is as likely, or perhaps more likely, to be worth this value than a "recent" one. A good surveyor can make all the difference in evaluating a boat. Then, you have to figure the time and effort required to bring the boat up to snuff. - George "Timothy C. Lackey" wrote: > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500.... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948214518.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:18:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:18:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln In-Reply-To: <00d201bf5ab1$ee826f20$b54eb5cf@laptop> Message-ID: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Hi Peter, Thanks for the note. I posted some further prop info, essentially that there is a web site properpitch.com that for $10 (although I got some info before payment) you can get a computer estimate done. Take it with a grain of salt... I initially thought the prop would cure things with my small 10hp Bukh diesel, which would not run more than 2500 rpm when it is supposed to do 3000. Instead of changing the prop I have been repairing and cleaning the fuel system, the tank, lines, pumps and injector, to see how this changes things this coming summer. If there isn't much change I will go to a 12 inch diameter, 10 inch pitch two or three blade for starters. The 12 inch diameter will almost give me an acceptable clearance all around. There is always lots of time and other more pressing fixes. I have an interest in Lake Winnipeg, not only from the sailing, but also from the local history and geography. I've been working on a research project that began with the hydrographic charting in 1901 and now is growing into what I can only describe as a pilot of the lake for sailors, with as much historic information as navigational stuff. Goderich is connected to Winnipeg because at least between 1882 and 1904 the Dominion Fish Co. of Winnipeg registered most of its steamboats from Collingwood and Goderich in Winnipeg, for some reason. I have been compiling a database of Manitoba boats as of 1905 and this info turned up. The sailing season on Lake Winnipeg is rather short, approximately June through mid-September, although recently the fall has been very mild for us. The lake is frozen about three or four feet each winter and there are numerous ice roads constructed to supply the northern reserves. I don't know what the Coast Guard and Public Works is doing in your area, but they are discontinuing dredging at the mouth of the Red River at the S. end of the lake. When the mouth fills up so that it is not navigable they will pull the buoys and it will be everyone for themselves... This will of course trap any of the deep draft vessels that are moored in Selkirk, Colville Landing and further upstream (south). All for now, Bob Lincoln Indigo 590. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Hay [mailto:phay at netcom.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:55 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Bob Lincoln From: "Peter Hay" [Deletions:] .... I sail out of Goderich on Lake Huron. Goderich is a commercial port with lake and oceon going freighters picking up grain and salt. Salt is mined under Lake Huron with the mine head only 500 feet from where my boat is moored. Always interested in corresponding. Peter Hay phay at netcom.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Tue Jan 18 09:26:26 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:26 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: Mistake In-Reply-To: <000001bf61d7$f87d08f0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> Message-ID: <000701bf61d9$25fdc9d0$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" Sooory about that e-mail to Peter Hay; I sent it to the list my mistake instead of sending it directly to as I intended. I'll watch the headers more carefully next time. Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Tue Jan 18 09:36:21 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:36:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <008401bf61da$890a9480$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" George, You wrote, "...but I would caution against relying too heavily on the BUC books." I think the point of my long-winded explanation was exactly that: don't rely on book value, other than as a starting point. Brokers (and sellers) tend to (wrongly) rely very heavily on book value, resulting in ridiculous asking prices for many boats, like run-down (based on what has been posted here) 1966 Alberg 30's priced at 13,500. I completely agree that condition is far more a determining factor than age in calculating current value. My point in quoting the numbers at all was simply to show the wide range of values that may even be supported by the book, all based on condition. Granted, the value does tend to lower for older boats, not always correctly, but BUC uses actual sales data to formulate its book values, and they are updated three times yearly to reflect any changes. Of course there may be a somewhat limited pool of information, and the BUC book is not a perfect reference, but it is vastly superior to other appraisal guides out there, and gives the best GENERAL starting point for pricing as well as instructions and guidelines for adjusting the value of the boat up or down according to its condition and geographical area. Extreme demand or supposed "collectibility" of a certain boat may drive prices even higher than BUC guidelines "allow" for, but this is true in any industry--cars, houses, beanie babies, etc. The point is, in general--lacking any excessive demand--the BUC is unique in providing guidelines for adjusting the basic prices based on condition and region. It is one of the jobs of the surveyor to determine where in the range of condition and perceived demand the particular boat falls, and the BUC book is the standard in the surveying industry to provide a starting point for valuation. An older boat, appraised under BUC's guidelines, can easily end up appraised at a higher value--significantly so--than a newer model, depending upon the relative conditions of the boats. Once boats reach a certain age, say 20 years or so, the values listed tend to change little over the years, reflecting the solid, basic core value of the boat in average condition. Prime examples of an old boat can and will be valued much higher. An unbiased surveyor should be the one to make the call and determine the condition of the boat with little regard for brokers' opinions and true book values, but valuation has to start somewhere--and it starts with historical sales data, which is what the BUC reflects, and "comps", which give an indication of real sales values of like boats in the region and beyond. Brokers, sellers, surveyors and buyers are often easily trapped by their perceptions of book values. Even surveyed "appraised" values are simply one person's opinion, based upon their own impressions, inspection and market research. The book should be a guideline for informational purposes, and while the data contained therein is not absolute, it does represent a good starting point, from which a more accurate representative value taking all factors into account can be formulated. I apologize if my earlier response did not properly project that premise. Tim Lackey --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948216981.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 09:54:39 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:54:39 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Timothy: > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price and > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is there > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things found > after the sale...even after a survey. > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over the > boat last weekend. > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back aboard > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average value or > less.... > but that is my guess. > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > Thanks very much, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > David, > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is $13,500. > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In addition > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the previous > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the sellers > given the condition of the boat. > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back to > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have to > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, and > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low BUC > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > restorable condition. > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope you > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to be > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as high > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. You > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the inherited > property is worth. > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without a > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the seller--may > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only way > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the brokers. > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for the > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll be > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. There > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your area > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded with > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at around > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton for > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't think > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I will > lose money in the long run. > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be great, > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, and > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > handle. > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you find > out. > > Tim Lackey > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218079.0 From bobjns at nais.com Tue Jan 18 09:50:28 2000 From: bobjns at nais.com (Bob Johns) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bilge pumps In-Reply-To: <23.5e4484.25b5eb8c@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Bob Johns I agree with Lee's comments. I have an Edson rated at 20 gallons per minute installed inside the vertical bulkhead aft of the port sail locker. The pump handle plugs into the pump via a rubber bellows and metal cover in the seat above the pump. The hose seems to be steam hose that was previously installed. The steam hose is very heavy and somewhat awkward to remove from the pump when removing the pump, but the stiff hose lies down in the sump under the engine and needs nothing to hold it in place in the sump. One thing I haven't seen emphasized in this discussion, although Lee mentioned it, is the importance of being able to operate the pump with the sail lockers closed. If you have to use the bilge pump while under way you also may be in conditions that risk filling the cockpit. Operating a bilge pump with the locker open is asking for trouble under severe conditions. We've never had a wave break over the stern, but once we took water over the coaming in a knockdown that lasted for about a half a minute. Also it is a lot easier to operate the bilge pump while sitting on the seat than kneeling beside the sail locker. I do find that I usually have to take the Edson apart in the spring to reverse the flapper valves. They seem to take a set over the winter that keeps them from sealing well enough to lift the water from the low sump. It is a good idea to check the pump just before the boat is launched in the spring by using a hose to add water to the bilge. The idea of a check valve to keep the pump primed seems like a good idea except that it might reduce the capacity of the pump slightly. The other problem is that it keeps the hose full and in the winter might freeze and damage the hose. Most test results that I've seen on bilge pumps indicate that the manufacturers are overoptimistic about the capacity of their pumps. I did empty our (presumably 30 gallon) water tank into the bilge and found that I could empty it in a little over a minute and a half. (For what it is worth.) Bob Johns, Wind Call #397 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948217828.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Tue Jan 18 10:04:37 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:04:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: <948164699.6301@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884AB0B.50EADC1C@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland David ... It would a bit difficult for me to speak to the specific boat that you mention but I can address to some degree the situation which surrounds the sale. I believe these circumstances to be very much in the favor of the buyer. Under these circumstances you can very often get a very good value in a boat ... you will have to determine what the boat would be worth to you, but it certainly sounds like one you would like to make an offer on. Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots dai at pdq.net wrote: > .... I believe the true story is: This is the inheriting > brothers boat. His brother has passed. Brother tried to sell her and > died. Wife wouldn't get on the boat after maiden voyage. The good part > is > it has a rebuilt engine, 2 cyl. Vitus diesel. No other modern > accoutrements, > but main is new, and 4 other sails, Genoa, Spinacker, Storm and jib. > There > is an old main and jib but I presume unusable. > > thanks, > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948218677.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Tue Jan 18 11:51:34 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 In-Reply-To: <000701bf61dd$184c8d40$a2da153f@unit01> References: <388B0476@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000118144615.00b591e0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser I agree, I have found BUC values to be inflated, especially for boats in these parts. I suffered when I sold my old boat, but benefited when I bought my new boat. Its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Make a fair offer and sit. I'll bet you will hear from them again. Brian Zinser Manana #134 At 12:54 PM 01/18/2000 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Shawn Orr" > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat was >in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > >Shawn Orr >IL Molino >#307 >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:30 AM >Subject: RE: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > > > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > > > Timothy: > > > > Thanks very much for the input. I did check the average condition price >and > > I knew that I should poke around the boat, find all that I could and make > > an offer well below the asking price. The question is, how much work is >there > > to do and you are right, there will always be expenses hidden in things >found > > after the sale...even after a survey. > > > > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, >just > > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. The boat did not > > appear to have moister inside but that was from a 1 hour or so going over >the > > boat last weekend. > > > > Anyway: You have responded with some of what I needed before I go back >aboard > > Saturday. I think the correct offer should be around half the average >value or > > less.... > > but that is my guess. > > > > OTOH: The sails are decent shape, the standing rigging intact. The engine > > overhauled, though an old vitus 2 cyl. > > > > The areas of where the Alberg 30 has troubles historically is where I am > > looking next. I want to go armed to the basin with data, and spend a long > > time checking things out. Back to my researching.... > > > > Thanks very much, > > David Bell dai at pdq.net > > > > > > From: "Timothy C. Lackey" > > > > David, > > > > The low end of the BUC book pricing for a '66 Alberg 30 in AVERAGE > > (BUC)condition--meaning ready for sale and use with no additional work > > required, and equipped as generally expected for the size range, is >$13,500. > > Sounds like the boat you're looking at is well below BUC condition. > > Therefore, you should not offer anywhere near the asking price. In >addition > > to the cosmetic problems the boat seems to have, it sounds like the >previous > > survey may have discovered more serious problems--or else the appraised > > value just didn't come close to what the stubborn owner and broker wanted. > > That's why the deal fell through. The boat has also been for sale for a > > long time, indicating that there are unrealsitic expectations by the >sellers > > given the condition of the boat. > > > > Depending upon the amount of work that is required to bring the boat back >to > > usable, AVERAGE condition (upon which the BUC values are based), you may > > deduct anywhere from 25% to 80% of the above quoted value. At a minimum, > > this should reduce your offer price to 10K (25% less than BUC value) and > > probably lower. If the boat is basically in shambles, and you will have >to > > do some structural work, cosmetic work, mechanical and systems upgrades, >and > > rigging/sailing gear upgrades--not to mention current electronics--you > > should offer at the very low end of the spectrum. BTW, 80% off the low >BUC > > value indicates a value of $2700--not far off if the boat is in bad, yet > > restorable condition. > > > > I applaud you for having an interest in an old, run down Alberg--I hope >you > > are able to buy her and bring her back to life. However, expect there to >be > > problems with the boat, and expect to spend a fair bit of money to restore > > the boat. Just make sure you don't pay too much for a boat based upon a > > broker's asking price and recommendation--they obviously want to get as >high > > a commission as possible, and they never work for you--it's against their > > best interests to help negotiate a low price. In my opinion, the asking > > price is too high, and is obviously driven by a broker's advice as to what > > he thinks "low end" book value means. He's wrong, if the boat needs the > > attention it sounds like she does, and the value is likely much lower. >You > > may also be running up against the problems inherent with an estate > > sale--typically inflated expectations by the heirs as to what the >inherited > > property is worth. > > > > Find a good surveyor, and get the boat surveyed! Money well spent, > > especially if the appraisal comes in way below the asking price. Without >a > > survey, a low offer by you will probably be shrugged off by the >seller--may > > even do so with a surveyed value. Having an unbiased survey is the only >way > > for you to know everything about the condition of the boat, and will give > > you the crucial information you need to make a realistic offer. Make sure > > the surveyor is working only for you and isn't in the pocket of the >brokers. > > You will then likely get a thorough and informative report and value for >the > > boat, and can decide how to proceed. Walk away from the deal if you feel > > the sellers are demanding too much money based upon your survey. You'll >be > > initially sad, but much happier in the long run. > > > > Remember: you are looking at a 34 year-old boat--albeit a great one. >There > > is a limit to how much value she will ever have. An Alberg 30 in your >area > > in perfect (Bristol) condition--meaning better than factory new, loaded >with > > extras, perfect in every way--very, very rare--would top out (max) at >around > > 20K, according to BUC. Likely she will be valued lower--in other areas of > > the country it would be definitely lower. Therefore, if she needs alot of > > work, you must buy her for the right price--and still will probably end up > > losing money if you were to sell her afterwards. I bought my '63 Triton >for > > a song, realizing that she needed everything done to her, but I don't >think > > I could ever make money on the deal, even though my plan is to get her to > > that exulted "Bristol" condition. However, I plan to keep her for years, > > and doing the work I am will make me happy and proud of the boat--but I >will > > lose money in the long run. > > > > The long and the short of the above is that buying the boat would be >great, > > and would be great to restore her--but don't pay too much, or get into it > > uninformed. There is much involved with the renovation of an old boat, >and > > hidden problems WILL arise, guaranteed. Just take all steps necessary to > > protect yourself from paying too much, or getting into more than you can > > handle. > > > > Hope this helps--sorry it got so long! Keep us informed as to what you >find > > out. > > > > Tim Lackey > > Glissando, Triton # 381 (very similar to the A-30) > > www.geocities.com/triton_glissando > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > > Sign up for eLerts at: > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948225094.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:12:55 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:12:55 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is painstaking. That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and on the Long Island Sound. It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948226375.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:13:17 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:13:17 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 References: Message-ID: <001301bf61f8$d7d1d560$a2da153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" Thanks Sanders. I still think that your boat just as nice to look at. I would love to see pictures of yours down below. Then we would know who really overpaid. All the wood is in top shape, however, nothing has been done to the interior since 1968 it seems. Lots of old wiring to be replaced in two weeks, and stove as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 > From: SandersM at aol.com > > > In a message dated 1/18/00 12:43:10 PM, Shawnwilliam at msn.com writes: > > >You should not pay anything more than $4,000.00 for this boat. My boat > >was in very good condition. All it needed was new running rigging, DF, and > >varnish the wood. I paid $8,500 a year ago. > > I totally agree. By Shawn's experience, I "overpaid" for a comparable A30 > (Shawn's is much prettier than mine) by $1,500 -- but Shawn's ballpark is a > realistic one. Your description of this vessel suggests that the term > "project boat" doesn't begin to encompass the work ahead of her buyer. > > Your post suggests that you might be underestimating the amount of work and > expense this boat requires. For example, you say that you think you replace > the exterior teak and refinish the interior joinery for around "a grand." > It would seem unlikely that you could buy the raw teak for replacing the > exterior joinery -- even before factoring in the cost of hiring carpenters, > or the value of your own labor, to fashion and refit the missing pieces -- > for a thousand dollars. The materials are not cheap; the labor required is > painstaking. > > That is not to say that you cannot or should not try to resurrect an older > boat on a limited budget. But you do not want to end up with a > half-renovated hull in your backyard, and no money or time to do the work > that she will require. The market for older boats is rising, but it is > still a buyer's market in the sense that the market presumes a > well-maintained boat. An owner rarely recovers the costs of maintenance when > he/she sells. You should wait for a boat that has been well-maintained -- > the premium you pay for it over the cost of a project boat will rarely match > the costs of bringing the project boat up to a well-maintained standard. At > least that seems to be the case here on the East Coast, in the Chesapeake and > on the Long Island Sound. > > It will be a grand thing indeed if you rescue a dilapidated A30 from > near-death. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, so > that she doesn't end up among the ranks of project boats killed by > well-intentioned but over-optimistic rescuers! > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948229997.0 From SandersM at aol.com Tue Jan 18 14:38:29 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:38:29 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, and ease/speed of application. Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948235109.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:28 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:28 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not satisfied with the results. Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions that I could send to a company that makes them? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948247948.0 From zira at mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 18:12:43 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: > From: "dan walker" > hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit > locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to > pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can > be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume > someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail1V.gif Type: image/gif Size: 6431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 16:50:14 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:50:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] bilge pump Message-ID: From: TheBlancs at cs.com Yes, a separate through-hull. Mine is on the starboard side, near the bilge pump, pretty-high up on the hull - just below the molded-in sheerline (is that what it's called?) Oh, I took the f out of bfilge pump in the subject. :-) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948243014.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Tue Jan 18 20:13:07 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:13:07 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders References: <38851D8C.ACC151D4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <388539D3.9336B892@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa David, If you contact Metal Mast in Putnam, Ct they can fabricate spreaders to meet your needs. The rake should be toward the stern which is very slight. Within a day I can provide the exact measurements for the wooden spreaders that came with the Alberg, I have the original spreaders tucked away that were used as templates when the new replacements were fabricated from white oak. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela David Swanson wrote: > > From: David Swanson > > Hello - > > I am preparing to pull the mast on Strayaway Child #229 (1967) and > replace the spreaders. The boat had home-made spreaders of aluminum > with oak (?) bases, and they may or may not be the correct length. They > angled slightly forward. which I am sure is not correct. I replaced > them with some I made out of aluminum tubing but I am still not > satisfied with the results. > > Do any of you know of some one in Annapolis or elsewhere who can > manufacture spreaders? Does anyone have a drawing or set of dimensions > that I could send to a company that makes them? > > Thanks in advance. > > dls > Strayaway Child > Alberg 30 #229 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948255187.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Tue Jan 18 17:11:11 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:11:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Need help with spreaders Message-ID: <66.f1c97b.25b6692f@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com David (Swanson), I visited one rigger in Annapolis (Annapolis Rigging I think) seven years ago who wanted $250 to make up a pair. I dearly wish I could tell you for certain that that's who it was. I was too fund-depleted at the time, so I band-sawed the really terrible looking (Douglas fir - I'm certain of it) original spreaders on Terrapin (#254, 1967) in half to get a good profile, then traced and cut new ones out of really clear white oak that a friend had around. The original spreaders were perfectly sound inside. But of course, I had band sawed them in half by that time... Sigh. Let me know who makes them for you. I'll need a source, too. I'm tired of climbing to paint the wood ones (or worse yet, looking up at ones that need painting)! Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948244271.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 17:12:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <000901bf612e$4ae25500$17d6153f@daniel> <38851D97.D6EFEE5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005401bf621a$3e88fce0$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde David, on #466 there are 2 brass (or maybe bronze) thru-hulls above the waterline under the lazarette. On starboard it is the discharge for the automatic electric bilge pump. On the port side it is the discharge from the engine. I have a manual bilge pump (which I have never used, gotta change the membrane on it), mounted on the underside of the port cockpit seat, aft of the locker cover. I assume the discharge is "spliced" in to use one of the those 2 thru-hulls. I've never went into the lazarette to look, can't for now because the boat is all covered up. Cheers Guy. Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: David Swanson To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] bfilge pump Hello - One question to all of you who have these pumps installed - Where does the outflow go? Do you have a separate through-hull, and where is it located? Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 dan walker wrote: From: "dan walker" hello all,rascal has a manual bilge pump in the starboard cockpit locker. it is a bicycle type pump which requires the locker be open to pump. it leaks. i would like to replace it with something new that can be pumped from the cockpit without lockers being open. i assume someone on the list has done this. any info will be appreciateddan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 18:34:57 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388522D1.65FC@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a call if I can help you in any way. "High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249297.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:33:44 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:33:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe nipple. They are fairly cheap, even at West. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948249224.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Tue Jan 18 19:00:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:00:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> Message-ID: <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich TheBlancs at cs.com wrote: > > From: TheBlancs at cs.com > > My A4 engine is shimmed with what appears to be plywood and sections of tire tread. I've never carried out an alignment, and I can't imagine how to do it with this type of material as shims. Is this typical? Does anyone have a better arrangement for their A4 equipped A30? Any comments would be much appreciated. > > Thanks. > Kevin Blanc > Terrapin, #254 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948250854.0 From A30240 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:15:54 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:15:54 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com Kevin While I still had the AT4 I had to do some alignment. Not much but a little. The plywood had compressed, so I added thin sheets of steel to build the thickness. It is slow and tedious, but works. You could also use thin aluminium. The steel I used was from a piece of 4" duct bought at Hechingers (of course you will have to go the Home Depot now). I used tin snips to cut it into 2" wide strips and inserted it one strip at a time between the ply and the steel motor bracket. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948251754.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Tue Jan 18 14:30:19 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:19 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: <948249170.25902@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3884E97A.567A0C99@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White (1) I have the pump in the cockpit aft bulkhead, operable without opening anything. It has its own outlet with a check valve in it. (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948234619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 01:15:39 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:15:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 11:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > The boat does have serious cosmetic problems, which, from what I can see, > just > replacing topside would and refinishing along with a complete wordwork job > below would amount to a grand or so from what I can tell. I don't know what you have in mind, but it this seems like a serious underestimation of the cost of the work you name.If by "replacing topside wood" you mean the toerails, handrails coaming and hatches, think 5 to 8 grand minimum, probably more and if by"complete woodwork job below" you mean refinishing all the interior wood, I would thing 2 or 3 grand in labor. Never underestimate the cost of boat-related, labor intensive work. Even if you intend to do it yourself, you'll pay in sweat and tears and postponed pleasure and it should come off the price as if it were being done by a yard. Best of luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948273339.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Wed Jan 19 04:43:41 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <001a01bf627a$d09c4e60$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" Huh? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Filinich To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 21:32 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) >From: Dick Filinich > >Timothy:Like shawn Orr I paid $9000 for my boat in good condition 1966 >needing minor work,but I went further and put nearly everything new,in >fact I'm close to the top market value that George Dinwiddie gave,and >still not through with the equipment I'm gonna put.Now Tim how much were >you gonna spend on a boat,a newer boat needing less work?Hey if you have >the cash,I mean cold cash,let the seller know you have it and make him >an offer of half the asking price,and work from there if the boat is >worth it,everything on the boat can be changed except the hull #1 >priorty.Cracks,repairs,blistering,delamination,whew scares you huh!Hey >man I'm in La.but still too far to just run over and help out.Give me a >call if I can help you in any way. > >"High Spirits"#191 Dick Fillinich Sr. Galliano,La. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948285821.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 05:17:10 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:17:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885B956.392FA353@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, We used Sikkens for years. In fact, we used one of the household-grade versions from the time before they came out with a marine version. It worked well for us with the caveat that you have to get the wood scrupulously clean before applying or it'll look grungy and blotchy. We've since switched to Armada which we like even better. Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on > products you all have used for brightwork. > > On the advice of my yard, I had planned to use Sikkens. But I just finished > reading Practical Sailor's 2 1/2 year-long survey of the performance of > various finishes, and it leads me to think that, for me, a product called > "Honey Teak" might offer the best compromise between appearance, longevity, > and ease/speed of application. > > Have any of you ever used Honey Teak? Any thoughts about it? Any > testimonials for it or for any of the other new wundervarnishes? > > Sanders McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948287830.0 From dsail at gte.net Wed Jan 19 05:33:23 2000 From: dsail at gte.net (dan walker) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:33:23 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> From: "dan walker" first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the ocean as always thanks in advance dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:29:11 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Hi: This goes back into the query that I originally posted, and relates to the many various comments as I viewed the boat for the first time last weekend and what it would take to get the boat in sailing condition first and then refit as funds are available. 1. It appears that you could sail it right now. 2. The boat has been neglected. 3. The engine is rebuilt. 4. I see no errs in electronic defects but they certainly could be present. 5. The topside woodwork is a shambles, at the very least needing total refinish and/or replacement. Below, it is sand, clean, varnish, spit, polish and check fittings, fixtures, ports, leakages, and so on. But the bright work effort below is totally cosmetic, not broken. The boat has not been cleaned, so starting there forward. 6. The sail inventory is good and the main is good, but the other 4 sails are unknown quality/condition at this time. There is an extra main and Jib presumably from original(previous) usage. But at least the inventory of sails to use is: Storm, spin, stay, jib, genoa, main from what I understand. 7. All of the stainless topside is usable. I could not check the top end, spreaders, etc from the deck but it all appears at initial glance to be usable. 8. The boat had no oder, didn't have a musty smell, so it appears to be dry. I will be working on that this weekend, starting the engine, getting into the nooks, ascertaining the state of the bilge, pump, and so on. 9. The electrolysis situation is the unknown factor, but at least it means hauling, and while hauled, paint the bottom so that when it is put back in the water, below the waterline is complete. Of course, the varied cost of this repair will be the unknown factor but that is, apparently why the previous interest backed off the purchase. Everyone who has contributed has made a fine effort at assistance. There has been too much to digest and respond to individually. The concept of buying a boat that will require work is one thing, as opposed to another in better condition boat requiring less. The cost of the effort spread across a year or so plus the labor involve is not an issue. The outlay of funds immediately is at question....If I can sail the boat after putting it back in the water and work on the various projects over the next year or so, I should have a boat in good condition by the end of next year, presuming a purchase over the next month or so. The observation I would make about shelling out 10K or better is that I find that to be more difficult with 2 teenagers about to head to college. It would entail a purchase of a different boat and that is not good or bad, just the fact of life about what is there and available at what cost and for what intended purpose. I don't want to be making payments on a boat at that time about 2 years from August. I can spread a few thousand dollars in restructuring the boat, putting up new stainless cables and so on across that time, and so on. The Bright work below will be elbow greese and time consuming. Above, more expensive individually due to having to replace much of it. The cabin and deck appear to be fine. I will do my best to ascertain the extent of core damage but it appears to be a stable situation. Leakage between deck and hull is another item that I will look at. I have been following along with all the comments and figure to know a lot more after the weekend. An offer would then be something I might entertain. At least I will have a 2nd pair of eyes along to assist. To the gentleman who commented on the Pearson, it was the wanderer as you thought. It is in horrible shape although it also might be rebuilt. Again, Thanks to all for taking their time. in my behalf. David Bell dai @pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948292151.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 06:44:14 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump References: <93.834fb6.25b67c88@aol.com> Message-ID: <3885CD78.BF55434E@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Good idea ... Thanks Jim ! Tom S InCahoots A30240 at aol.com wrote: > From: A30240 at aol.com > > Before you use galvanized, you might want to get a bronze pipe > nipple. They > are fairly cheap, even at West. > > Jim Davis > Isa Lei > 240 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293054.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 06:46:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <388EF4D6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Paul: Yes, I understand that the cost of paying for the work and the actual cost of wood which is to be replaced can be extensive. The hatch, and so on is okay. Refinish and so on. The cockpit area has the most extensive damage, two items around the cockpit needing the be replace but a lot of it is refinish effort as opposed to total replacement. I was speaking about the cost in materials, etc, for refinishing the wood, as opposed to replacing it. I haven't got an estimate on what needs to be replaced, but I will have a check list completed after the weekend so I could tell you more then. I appreciate again, your thoughts. I doubt it is an 8k project. More likely in the 2-4k range altogether. I can do the stainless, suaging, and so on above deck myself...so, I am estimating there that to build it back to standard or better, would be another 2K. The engine is okay, so next would be fine finish, additions of equipment, and so on. The bottom and corrosive situation is my biggest concern. I can handle the removal of paint, refinish, and repaint the bottom. I don't know about the state of the rudder, fixtures, prop, shaft, thru hull tube, seals, and so on. At least I can say about that is that the boat is in the water and I know the bottom needs paint and until I survey it, I won't have a completed concept of the effort required. Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent on a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even getting my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My younger son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 to rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about doing that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus allowed that it didn't help either. Dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948293203.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Wed Jan 19 07:08:43 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:08:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 References: <1d.4c1b6c.25b5d859@cs.com> <388528E6.618D@mobiletel.com> Message-ID: <3885D319.7A15A2EF@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... If you hear from Kevin on this please share with the whole list .. thanks ! Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots Dick Filinich wrote: > > Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and > I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something > > new. > Dick > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294523.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:09:03 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:09:03 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <1b.77052a.25b72d8f@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 8:16:21 AM, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: >Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, >though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation. > My, George, but you have a way with words. :-) Thanks for the observations. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294543.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:15:35 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat References: <388EE04F@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3885D517.1DE18D9@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, Let me see if I can recap a bit: This boat seems to be in basically functional condition. There are numerous cosmetic issues. Equipment such as electronics and sails are definitely not new, but functional. Some exterior woodwork is damaged or worn to the extent that it requires replacing. It has been reported to you that there is some electrolytic damage to the shaft, prop and rudder. The boat has been repowered with a Vetus 20HP diesel. Asking price is $13.5K, but you think you can buy it for around $7K. Is this a fair summary? You mentioned some stress cracks in the gelcoat around the windows. On an older A30 with the masonite core, this is more cosmetic than serious. (On a newer boat, this can allow water infiltration to the balsa core.) Still, I would suggest scraping them with a sharpened "church key" and filling them. It's a small job. Shafts and props are easily, though not cheaply, replaced. You should be able to get a quick quote on that. It's probably a 7/8" shaft and a 13x12 prop. That's close enough for the estimate, anyway. I'd figure on replacing them and, if you don't have to do so, it's a gift. Pieces like the rudder shoe and the pintles and gudgeons are a bit different. I've heard that there are some J24(?) pintles and gudgeons that are similar enough to use. Others have had pieces cast or milled for replacements. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem. If the post at the bottom of the rudder (where it engages the shoe) is worn or missing, that too can be fixed. You may find that it's a 1/2" bronze bolt with the head cut off and you can remove and replace it. Otherwise, the fix is to drill and tap it for such a bolt. If the 1" bronze rod is too far gone, you may need to replace that. On the older boats this is reportedly easier than it was on my newer boat. Check the heat exchanger on the Vetus. I don't know if it's the same model, but that seems to be the weak link of the Vetus, from what I've heard. If the boat is satisfactory to sail other than the things I've just discussed, I'd guess that the general condition is factored into the asking price. A lot depends on how much the cosmetic problems bother you. If you really want a brand-new looking boat, this one will probably never do. Don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to bring something back. On the other hand, if you can take enjoyment from it (and sail the boat in the mean time), it can be just part of the joy of owning a boat. Take a hard look at the costs of the items that need or probably need fixing immediately. Come up with a price that satisfies you. I've a friend who took an older boat that had been neglected, in the water, for 12 years and restored it to beautiful condition. It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it. Good luck with it. I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294935.0 From SandersM at aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:15:28 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:15:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <7e.1dd1a9.25b72f10@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:39 AM, dai at pdq.net writes: >as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus >allowed that it didn't help either. And to think I was going to dig out my Lonesome Dove tapes this weekend! Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948294928.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 07:18:13 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f@daniel> Message-ID: <3885D5B5.3AA84533@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948295093.0 From TheBlancs at cs.com Wed Jan 19 07:39:19 2000 From: TheBlancs at cs.com (TheBlancs at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:39:19 EST Subject: [Fwd: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland] Message-ID: <1d.570a6e.25b734a7@cs.com> From: TheBlancs at cs.com My zinc situation was as described by George. I switched to a zinc that was integrated into the outer prop nut (held to it with a screw through its length). It works fine. It probably wasn't worth the price or effort, though. Hindsight is so much clearer. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:18:13 -0500 From: George Dinwiddie Reply-To: alberg30 at onelist.com Organization: ~Hovel-On-The-Water~ To: alberg30 at onelist.com References: <002701bf6281$ea54ea40$22d6153f at daniel> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Many boats (including mine) have a prop nut with a screw-on bullet-shaped zinc. ?The clearance is too small and I have to saw off the end of the zinc, but it works. ?I think these are made by Camp. - George > dan walker wrote: > > From: "dan walker" > > first, thanks to all who commented on bilge pump installations. i > printed all of them and filed them for spring. today, i have two > queries. 1)i realize the importance of sacrificial zinc,but i cannot > see where there are any on rascal, nor can i picture where they should > go. the prop is on the shaft and there is very little space between > the prop and the hull/housing. i read the a 30 manual section k on > glands and zinc etc but am just a forrest gump. 2) rascal has been out > of the water for a good spell, do packing glands dry out? forget it > and just replace? any way to test for a leak before putting in the > ocean > as always thanks in advance > dan --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ? ?GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! ?Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948296359.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:15:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:15:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Texicans - little on boats. For Sanders.... Message-ID: <388FA796@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, we are naturally contrary. Although I wasn't born here, I knew I would live here after about age 3 onward. And at age 20, moved to Texas, 30 years ago, and worked in the oil fields. Back out and much experience later I returned in 90. However: I no longer have the wedge shaped body of light weigh necessary to cowboy it up. My son gave me a birthday card that said: "I wouldn't say you are old, but if you were a tractor tire, you would be lying on your side, full of petunias. Having spent the better part of the last 16 years parenting, the last 7 as a single parent, I am pretty worn out with a lot of things and feel it is time for me to zero in on a couple of things I want to do before it is too, late. Cruising is one of them. Boatbuilding is out(3 year deal or more for an older guy). But rebuilding/refitting will work. And I happened on to the boat. And, as the Captain said: "shoveling horse poop didn't hurt me any." I am just thinking that I will leave that to my elder son who is the cowboy and my younger son and I will focus on, well, sailing and a different way to throw away money for awhile. Oh. THe latter was the one that gave me that card. And, Sanders: Get out the tape and watch it anyway. Great western film. BTW: Family heritage is out of Wild Horse Oklahoma. A tiny spot in the road. I do have the school caution sign from the 1940s. It was to have been the ranch name: Wild Horse Stables(with the adapted caution sign hanging from the gate. Guess it will go in the study with my other relics. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302110.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 09:26:22 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:22 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] older 66 - George Message-ID: <388FB62B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" George: I have used your data, site, and review in the process of deliberating in regard to my potential purchase. I appreciate your afficionado. As a matter of fact, I just printed off your review of the boat this morning along with several others, received a fax on the practical boat review along with alot of info. All of the suggestions have been super. I am sure I will learn a lot more this weekend, as I have learned a lot more about the boat design, etc. itself over the last few days. Now I know it is an older boat. I know things changed @ hull 411. But essentially it is the same boat 1-700 or whatever. It has 3 active associations. Unfortunately, not one in the gulf, from what I can tell. Heck: Maybe I will take a transfer back to Farmingington Hills???? But Alberg designed sound, safe boats. A lot of money can be spent at boat shows and not come up with a boat you can depend on such as this. I know the design characteristics that I have faith in. I know for what I want in a cruising boat size this boat will suffice. Were I wealthy I would aim different. However: The heritage of this boat will also make it fun to own for multiple reasons. among those reasons are people like you. I am not saying I will purchase it. I will deliberate and make a sound decision. If not, I will wait til the right opportunity shows itself... 13.5 avg condition, 66? This boat is not avg condition. I would say I should offer low, have it surveyed and go from there. heck: The owner and I haven't even howdied yet, much less shook on anything. dai --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948302782.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 19 10:05:00 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <2.5b0d65.25b64565@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601bf62a7$b3cadc20$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" I haven't heard or used Honey Teak. On freshwater, up here where the summer days are long & the winter nights are fine for warm basements. (Remove everything from the boat to work on it.) Two methods: 1. Where the teak or wood is sound and not weathered: Strip it down, sand beginning with a fine paper, use spar varnish half mixed with turp or solvent for the first two coats, then another four coats or more of the regular spar varnish. Sand lightly between coats, working up to 600 grit or higher wet/dry paper. Do not use steel wool. Final sand is wet, and this will clean up the imperfections. Lasts two seasons and you can touch up as you wish. 2. Wood is weathered, poor shape, teak has ridges: Scrub with tsp or ajax or power wash. Dry. Use a scraper to take off the ridges. Sand, scrub again. Seal with half spar varnish/turp mixture. Then to bring up a color and to hide the discolorations use Cetol, or a cheap teak stain. A cover coat of spar varnish can be added, don't sand the base stain too hard. You won't get a deep color or finish like step 1. It lasts a season or more. Using stain, mix it well and often, apply in light coats by brush or rag, which blends the color well. With most of this work I have found it easier to apply many thin coats rather than a few thick ones. You will probably have a few holidays or spots you miss, and several coats catch these spots. A thin coat can tolerate a cheap bristle brush; with a thicker coat you have to be exceedingly finicky over dust and the condition and quality of the brush. If you don't like the look when dry you can always wet sand the top layer down and begin again. You can also use a small foam roller, followed by brush strokes. The best solution is to have as little outside wood to refinish as you can live with. Bob Lincoln Indigo #590. -----Original Message----- From: SandersM at aol.com All of this talk about restoring topsides wood leads me to poll the list on products you all have used for brightwork. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948305100.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:33:31 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:33:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] Addendum to 66 ALBERG 30 Message-ID: <44.1105a1a.25b7799b@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 9:49:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > Also, although I do know that time is money, at least it will be well spent > on > a worthy project, for me, the boat, for the boat itself, and maybe even > getting > my two teens out on the water with me...and maybe they can put some of their > > young muscles into the projects themselves(Not counted on though). My > younger > son is interested so if he gets into it, I have found a catalina 22 for 500 > to > rework for him. A lot of work but for a 15 year old, a real fine start once > we get it done. He can race it Clear Lake. Oh. maybe in the process, I will > begin to build a dinghy. Or more and sell them. Something I thought about > doing > that I may take up on the side, in the winter, in the barn. I am tired of > scooping horse poop, although as Woodrow said, "It didn't hurt me any". Gus > allowed that it didn't help either. Well Dave, if you've been a working cowboy most of your life, you probably have enough stamina left over in retirement for three normal men. As for shoveling horse poop, I think a little more of that would have given me the mind set I needed for boat work. And you're very lucky to have sons who may want to get involved. Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat. You will be continually amazed at the disparity betweeen expectation and execution. But He did that for a reason: if He had given us the foresight, no one would ever buy a boat. And He wants us out there. Because sailing brings us closer to Him. Good luck, Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314011.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:42:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:42:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] 1966 boat Message-ID: <6e.3e9007.25b77ba8@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sounds like rational and well balanced advice, George. I assume he is having it pulled to take a look at the bottom. That will tell the story on the thru hull fittings, which you didn't mention. I would shoot for a lower price, to cover the unanticipated, say, around $5k. Paul Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948314536.0 From dans at stmktg.com Wed Jan 19 12:52:04 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <388623F4.EC099CE3@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > --Dan S. > dans at stmktg.com ..AND... he also granted us short memories so we can't remember how much work it took last season! drt (Danny R. Taylor) --------------------------------- This is the best day so far for memorable quotations on this list, 2 in 1 day! Other one from George D. applies to more than boats, subject was teak finishes: "Neither of these products are immune to total neglect, though. I've discovered that through careful experimentation." --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948315124.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 13:18:46 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:46 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <3890C04B@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the work is being performed? I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. dai (sheesh!) Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948316726.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:00:50 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:00:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George, What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? Jay Davenport Revolution, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333650.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:12:18 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:12:18 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork References: <200001192101_MC2-957C-5C08@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <38866F02.60311567@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie It's lighter in color. I'm not sure, but it may be a little harder and more durable. - George Jay Davenport wrote: > > What particular advantage do you find that Armada has over Sikkens? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334338.0 From JayDavenport at compuserve.com Wed Jan 19 18:10:06 2000 From: JayDavenport at compuserve.com (Jay Davenport) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:10:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] zinc/packing gland Message-ID: <200001192110_MC2-957C-5C8E@compuserve.com> From: Jay Davenport George & Dan, There is also an acorn-shaped screw on zinc which will fit on the exposed threads of the shaft aft of the prop nut. It requires that about 1/8" be filed off the end for clearance. It is available at Tidewater in Havre de Grace. Jay Davenport REVOLUTION, #526 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948334206.0 From tristan at one.net Wed Jan 19 17:47:40 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <388624C6.64990E42@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Hi Albergians, This fascinating thread that started with David Bell's inquiry about what sounds like a "true fixer upper brings to mind a number of issues: Bristol fashion Albergs command top price, they are a "pull sail cover off, through mooring lines to shore and let's sail!" Relatively well kept and upgraded Alberg 30s may be found within a reasonable range ($7000 - $15,000) True fixer uppers range from $1000 - $6,000; also true fixer uppers may not always be fixed up in the time first projected - like many projects they may cost a lot more and take a lot longer due to learning curves, unforeseen problems and fate One thing to be said for the fixer upper (and I, too am one! - I have a 1968 Bluenose 24 designed by Roue of Nova Scotia and a 1963 Pearson Electra designed by Carl Alberg - as well as a "new" car, a 1986 BMW 528e with many needs. When money is a critical factor fixer uppers give us a chance to experience something of high quality for a reasonble to us price. Our intuition allows us to vision what the "basket case" to most people will look like when it is finished; and after a point you can enjoy the fixer upper before it is fully restored. There is also a therapeutic reward from fixing up a house, boat or car that comes from hard physical labour, rigourous mental discipline and emotional rest from seeing the beauty arise from the Phoenix like Alberg! Why it could even serve as a group or family therapy! Better than subscribing to "Affluenca" and getting in over our heads....Just some thoughts... Scott Wallace, Hopeful for an Alberg 30 some day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948332860.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:02:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:02:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] A4 engine mounts in A30 Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: << Kevin if you want a blow by blow on engine alignment let me know and I'll tell you how to do it yourself and save money and learn something new. Dick >> That info might interest alot of A30er's Dick. would you mind outlining your method here on the list? Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330147.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 17:10:46 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/18/00 10:43:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, gewhite at crosslink.net writes: << (2) I agree that the boat in question is probably not worth more than $4,000. it ALWAYS costs more to fix something than the estimate. LOTS. Compare your worst guess of the fixup cost plus the price and see what else you could buy with the money. Maybe a much better Alberg. You have to be brave to take on essentially a near basket case. It is easy to get into restoration of an old house old airplane, old car, old boat that costs more than its market value. If you love it, factor that in, but do not buy someone else's problem.(Been there, done that). - Gordon, A-275 >> I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. However, the upside to the restoration approach, is that 1)you are rebuilding the boat to your own ideas, so you will end up with the boat you want, 2)everything will be new and strong, if you have done things correctly, and 3)you are saving an old boat, important to some of us :) 4)when you are done, you have the tremendous satisfaction of a completed project. Granted, all personal perceptions and values. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 (definite restoration/salvage project!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948330646.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 16:57:50 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:57:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <62.be69d9.25b7b78e@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, Varnish-a topic near and dear to my heart!!!!!!!!! I've used sikkens-put on three coats onto wooded down teak toerails and hand rails. It looks pretty, but does 'muddy' the grain abit. On my application, I had to redo some areas mid-season. I think it was because there was some old teak oil left in the wood in those areas, and that interefered with adhesion of the sikkens. I was not thrilled with the sikkens. to get a good job, you have to get down to clean wood, just as if you were going to varnish, and then you have to put on three coats, which they say you do not have to sand inbetween coats, but roughing up with 3M scotch brite will not hurt. I feel if the prep work is so similar, you might as well varnish already. 4-6 healthy coats of Z Spar Captains Varnish lasts the season. At seasons end, light sand, and put on two new coats, and the varnish work is done for a year if the boat is covered for the winter. Like the sikkens, if you get a full thickness ding, a light sanding of the ding, and a couple of coats of varnish there will preserve the wood. And the varnish is definitely more beautiful. Rather than muddy the grain, varnish highlights it. It's not that much more work, the expense, 15-20 dollars a quart, depending on where you go, is about the same, and the results are worth it. Are you a varnisher? If not, I'll be glad to share my techniques with you. I go for a pragmatic longevity of the coat and realistic ease of application, as opposed to the plate glass, pro look. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948329870.0 From dai at pdq.net Wed Jan 19 18:23:20 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Old Boats, Good Therapy! Message-ID: <38920625@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well Scott: This boat is ready to purchase. I know approximately what it is worth. You established a range of 7-15 for say mid road type average condition pricing. I would say the boat is a bit under that. OTOH, I do have some conceptualization of what you are saying. This will be "my" boat. It will not be a cookie cutter. It sure will be more seaworthy that most every boat I see at a boat show, at 4 times the cost or better. And it surely is not historic. Yes, the boat is narrower of beam than they build them today. But that also eases passage in a seaway for a smoother sail. You only need so much space below to singlehand(I am single) or for short cruises. I can see two of us one day in my life(maybe). The buit suits me right down to the ground. Part of the fun as well has been really digging into the history and nature of the boat as the existing owners see it, experience it, and have recorded it. My material is getting quite Voluminous. If I haul it, fix whatever below, paint it and put it back in the water, I can sail it, in general. I think I would plan event- ually, to replace the standing rigging stainless and so on. Next winter. I will sail it when I get done with the bottom (I hope), ensure the rudder, shaft and through hulls are okay and then have some time on the water. Haul it again and work a bit in the winter. By that time, I will have finished at least the bright work above (George--it is Mahogany on this boat which I believe they did for awhile, not teak..). Even if I opt out, it is a worthy attempt; The next one I see will be with a more knowledgeable eye. Regards, dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948335000.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Wed Jan 19 18:40:07 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:40:07 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] pump outlet / values References: Message-ID: <38867587.5093976F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Well, Mike Lehman restored Valency for resale. He may not have made a lot of money for his time, but he didn't lose any. I'm not trying to minimize the difficulties in restoring a boat, but I don't think it has to be completely foolish financially. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > I agree with gordon completely-financialy you do not come out ahead with a > restoration, unless you have some wholesale sources for gear, you do all the > work yourself, and you do not count your own time in terms of dollars. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948336007.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Wed Jan 19 17:58:04 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:58:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging Message-ID: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> From: Jim Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a Hound? Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948333484.0 From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:22:54 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38868D9E.471@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty for those not interested move on. 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and twist,in water boats settle. 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of 1/8 "and slot all pieces. 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is centered and not in a bind. 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove it,as shim material. 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine 948342174.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 19 20:31:21 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:31:21 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Rigging References: <38866BAC.37B3577A@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38868F98.85C59691@idirect.com> From: John Birch What is an Aleberg? John ; ) Hounds are the tangs and hoops on a mast in which the standing rigging is attached and the wrap about the spar as in a fractional rig. Cheers, John Jim wrote: > From: Jim > > Looking over the rigging on an Aleberg 30 I find a line that goes around > a pulley near the top of the mast and connects to a "Hound". What is a > Hound? > Jim > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daf at mobiletel.com Wed Jan 19 20:50:56 2000 From: daf at mobiletel.com (Dick Filinich) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:50:56 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <38869430.6C4C@mobiletel.com> From: Dick Filinich Kevin:don't know what happened only have of my mail went through,I'll send the rest through tomorrow night.Dick --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948343856.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:08:28 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:08:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] bfilge pump Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the outlet hose goes to the rear, through the back locker bulkhead, and at this point it goes as high as you can get it, then down to the exit port, usually about 1 1/2 " . If you don't have it as high as you can at the stern, you wil get a following sea entering the hose. I personally wouldn't try a check valve. I don't mind is a little water goes back down to the bilge. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948344908.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:32:00 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:32:00 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best have a water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the water pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and not easy to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple grand' I've bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you think. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948346320.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 21:49:18 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:49:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <7b.b5e8c6.25b7fbde@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, although we could pay the yard to do all the work, we don't, because we are all so picky. We prefer to do it ourselves, raather than bitch about the casual atitude of the yard workers, so there! Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948347358.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 01:58:18 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 04:58:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Encouraging to see you have a sense of humor, David. It'll come in handy while you're fixing up that boat. Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/19/00 4:23:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Do you guys mean to tell me that you do work yourselves > and the Yard isn't paid to handle all repair, cleaning and > upgrades along with large tips so you can sip martini's at > the club and maybe take a round or two of golf while the > work is being performed? > > I thought I was associating voluntarily with a wealthy > group of yachtsmen. Apparently, I have chosen poorly. > > dai (sheesh!) > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, > good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never > will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate > shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed > by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362298.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:05:27 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:05:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sequel to "inability to guage boat work..." Message-ID: <28.1050b72.25b837e7@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com In a message dated 1/19/00 4:01:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, dans at stmktg.com writes: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Reply from my former A-30 boat partner, Danny taylor: > > > "Just remember: God made the human mind incapable of the foresight to > > truly gauge the amount of work necessary on a boat." > > > > --Dan S. > > dans at stmktg.com I thought I was original with that, but I guess the same Katra lead to the same Nirvana insight for all of us. Paul, Ashwagh #23 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948362727.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 02:11:04 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:11:04 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <24.3c3316.25b83938@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com There is away to avoid all this by substituting money: Vetus sells the PSS shaft coupling, a kind of simplified CV joint that allows full, vibration free transmission of power with 15 degree off axis alignment. Costs about $250 last time I looked. Paul Ashwagh #23 P.S. Thanks for the procedure, though, Dick. I saved it for future reference. In a message dated 1/19/00 11:27:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, daf at mobiletel.com writes: > From: Dick Filinich > > Kevin:By request from Lee I'll put on for all,this will be a bit lenghty > for those not interested move on. > 1.never try to align engine with vessel out of water,boats flex and > twist,in water boats settle. > 2.you need 2 people,wrenches for motor mount bolts,coupling bolts and a > set of mechanics feeler gauges(blade type)you will also need a way to > pick up the engine just enough to slide shims in mounts when > needed.Small hydraulic jack from auto trunk,2x4 wood stud on top of 2x4 > laid on floor in front of engine,or brute strength,leverage is better. > 3.use only metal plate for shim material,aluminum can be worked with > homeshop tools,hand held jig saw,find a diesel engine repair co.and see > if they have shim material comes in rolled sheets of different > thicknesses such as .010 thousanths of an inch etc.they might have some > left over without having to buy rolls.Shim material is cut with tin > snips.Find some scrap alum.plate and cut pieces into rectangles of about > 3"x4" and along the 4"side cut slots a bit larger than the mount bolts > in to half the width of the plate.Start with 4 pieces 1/4 " and four of > 1/8 "and slot all pieces. > 4.Unbolt coupling and pull shaft back it should drop down just a bit,now > check where your shaft is centered in stuffing box packing,by moving > shaft around and turning it until you get the the feel that the shaft is > centered and not in a bind. > 5.If any material that is compressible or will rot away like wood remove > it,as shim material. > 6.Pull couplings together with shaft centered and check how high engine > has to come to get couplings together (measure on top of flange > difference in heights).Add shims to bring engine up till flanges are > close to same height.Look at coupling from the side view if top of > coupling is closer than bottom then add shim material to rear of engine --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948363064.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 07:02:54 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:02:54 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: <389392FE@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, If it has to do with a rebuilt engine, sitting in the water for over a year, I content that if I try to start it, I will immediately detect that all seals are dried and cracked, the engine was actually rebuilt in 1994 and hasn't been started since the maiden voyage. I predict this. It is inevitable. Kind of goes along with the engines I have rebuilt since childhood on the farm in Missouri. Some of those rebuilds were, well, adventures as well. oh. the grand was for cleaning material, paint, varnish, sanding stuff, and nothing for muscle, time, effort expended or replacing wood. The cost of that appears to be two large pieces of combing around the cockpit with more to be determined later. Below deck, I saw nothing broken or cracked. But have my checklist ready to go for Saturday. OH. btW made my first purchase of a boat in 1963, a 14' feathercraft, 35 hp johnson OB at age 13 or so. 300.00. My expenses have greatly increased in regard to any sport I have participated in since. And my double check is: Sanity 101, at A&M...oh, I am talking about the real A&M which has one of the most marvelous record streaks in NCAA football History - I think it was 83 in a row.... Prairie View A&M about 20 miles west of me and Y'all understand that aggies are truly brilliant folks, whether it is at Prairie view, College Station or Oklahoma A&M, I mean, State. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948380574.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:03:47 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:03:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, the cockpit coamings aren't too big a job. When I bought my Pearson Ariel, it needed new coamings, and the wooden part ahead of them.. Full of rot that had been covered. I made them about 3" higher, ( which made the cabin look lower, and added a little more protection in the cockpit) and I made them out of mahogony. A friend bought a 2 1/2 " thick plank long enought to do both jobs, we split it down the middle, planed it and , voila, matching grain. I used teak stain, and 4 coats of Flecto Varithane, and only had to touch it up about every 2 years. Much much cheaper than teak, and just as pretty, with the varnish. If you do something to your teak, it sill blend in well. It's a project, but not too bad. I think it took a couple of weeks, off and on. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391427.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:09:59 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <38948ED7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Thanks russ... That is the biggest single project topside except for: Toerails mast, spreader inspection, stanchions(a lot more closely) etc. Oh. I sat there and looked at my own msg, re: SP(Coamings) but couldn't for the life of me figure out which way to spell it. I just knew it was wrong and my cheap little webster didn't have the word, if you can believe that. As I understand the mast and structure, they had a coated wood mast, an aluminum mast, and one more type. The spreader was originally wood??? Now it is aluminum. Or have it built. The stanchions looked good when I was aboard last time but I will inspect it carefully. The sliding hatch cover is not wood, and is in good shape. The board covers need a lot of comsetic work... more after the weekend.... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948391799.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 10:26:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Warning: No ALberg or sailing data contained. But refitting the boat reminded me of a hole in the water, and then this story..... Message-ID: <3894A187@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Gentlemen; Here is a nominee for the next Darwin awards which was forwarded to me by a friend. Thought you might all get a kick out of this... maybe we ought to nominate this pair as co-presidents to replace The Little King. My subtitle for this is one of the two following: 1. If you think a sail boat is a hole in the water...read this or 2. IDIOT TAGS: The reason legal officials use the terminology (oh! for those uninformed, such a tag is a law enforcement Derogatory term....the bodies, of the two sportsmen, had they met a fate worse, would have been sent to the coroner who would say to his buddy: Pete: These two guys are legal suicides. Put the idiot tags on the toe and let the autopsy go. No sign of cerebral development in 4 generations..." Dai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- < DUCK HUNTING WITH DYNAMITE > > True Story from Michigan, USA > > > > Guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $40,000+, > > and has $600.00+in monthly payments. He's pretty proud > > of this rig, and gets a hold of his friend to do some > > male bonding with the new ride. > > > > They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are > > frozen. These two brainiacs go to the lake with their > > guns, the dog, the beer and, of course, the new vehicle. > > They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make > > some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - > > something the decoys will float on. > > > > Remember, it's all ice, and in order to make a hole > > large enough to interest a flock of ducks and a hole > > big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to > > use a little more than an ice hole drill.....Soooo, > > out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee > > comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse! > > > > Now, to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID > > take into consideration that if they placed the stick > > of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where > > they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and > > ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice > > as they ran from the imminent explosion and could > > possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. > > After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting > > and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up > > doing. > > > > Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned > > the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG????? Yes, > > the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for > > retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). > > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of > > doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite > > with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it > > hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots who > > are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering > > what the heck to do now..... > > > > The dog is happy and now heads back toward the > > "hunters" with the stick of dynamite. I think we all > > can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part > > of the brain trust, as the loyal Labrador retriever > > approaches. The Bozos now are REALLY waving their > > arms - yelling even louder and generally feeling > > kinda panicked..... > > > > Finally, one of the guys decides to think - something > > that neither had done before this moment, grabs a > > shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it > > really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 > > duckshot and hardly effective enough to stop a black > > Lab. > > > > The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but > > then continued on. Another shot,and this time the dog - > > still standing, became REALLY confused & of course > > scared. > > > > Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone > > TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with > > a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick > > of dynamite. The cover the dog finds? Underneath the > > brand-new Grand Cherokee worth 40-some thousand dollars > > and the $600.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting > > nearby on the lake ice. > > > > BOOM!!--Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and > > these two "Co-Leaders of the Known Universe" are left > > standing there with this 'I can't EVEN believe this > > happened to me' look on their faces. > > > > Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance > > company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle > > in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered > > on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment. > Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392793.0 From SandersM at aol.com Thu Jan 20 10:29:46 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:29:46 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. Childers was an Irishman, an avid sailor, and a gunrunner for the Irish rebels prior to its independence. After Ireland's independence in 1922, and the ensuing civil war, he was executed by one faction for suspicion of espionage on behalf of the English -- a ridiculous accusation. Childers wrote Riddle of the Sands as a spy thriller set at the turn of the century aboard a 30 foot sailboat cruising the Frisian Islands, the sandbar barrier islands that border the Dutch and German coasts. It is thick with descriptions of sailing that do much to put the reader on the water with him. Disregard the several references to a centerboard, and you can imagine it all happening aboard your favorite A30. Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought some of you might be in need of a diversion. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948392986.0 From apk2 at home.com Thu Jan 20 13:47:50 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:47:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild In-Reply-To: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Well finally found a good guy in Baltimore to rebuild my GM25. Took the engine over there, they stripped and inspected it. Water jacket is good and block is sound. Complete rebuild with new bearings, valves, head planed, cylinders bored, a complete rebuild. Estimate was $3200. They claim the engine will be like new. It's really a late model Continental engine with some older Continental parts with the block cast for GrayMarine. The only decision I had to make was what color to have it painted. Should be ready in about 30-45 days. I'll let you know. Wallace Engines of Essex MD. Has rebuilt GM25 before, and A4's. Said the GM is a better more rugged engine, but that's their opinion. (Does boat engines such as rebuilds for the engines in the baltimore water taxis, flat head fords, and builds dragsters, interesting place) (They are talking to me about making my Cobra faster too.) Hatches nearly done. Built a form for the main hatch, and laminated two 1/4" Marine ply sheets over the form. Laminated another from non marine play and used that as a press to clamp the teak veneer over the marine play. Used West Epoxy with filler additives. Fore hatch and lazarette hatch to go and all are done. While the engine is out, replaced the cockpit thru hulls, and routed the ice box drain into the port one. Drained, cleaned, and sanitized the bilge (ugh). Adding an electric bilge pump and routing the manual one through a thru hull next to the exhaust ( was open the locker throw the hose over the side and pump). Adding Nexus system wind, depth, speed, gps system. Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. Then.... going sailing June thru August on the Chesapeake. ( I teach, so 3 months off). Can't wait. Alan Andante A30#152 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948404870.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:09:15 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment Message-ID: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Dick, thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very appreciated. Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948406155.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:33:47 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:33:47 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] total eclipse ! Message-ID: <38878D24.5F36579A@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Here's a neat site with info about tonight's (1/21/00) total lunar eclipse and others yet to come. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html Tom S --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948407627.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:46:08 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <98.b759ca.25b8ea30@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hi Sanders, Really enjoyed your summary and winter insights into Riddle of the Sands. I think most of us spend more time, much more time, dreaming of our ships, winter or summer, than we are able to sail them. I don't know if you are aware of this, but a good film was made of riddle of the sands. I rented it from Blockbuster, and really enjoyed it. Hope you survive this winter storm! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408368.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Thu Jan 20 14:46:50 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:46:50 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) References: <40.914feb.25b7f7d0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3887900C.F1044C21@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Also ... If you start engine while out of the water you must not allow the prop shaft to turn in cutlass bearing. As I am sure you know but may overlook in your anxious state ... it relies on water for lubrication. Tom S A30 #412 Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, just a caution: If you plan to start that engine, you best > have a > water supply, so you don't cause dammage. If not, you will wreck the > water > pump impeller, and have to replace that, upwards of $30 bucks, and > not easy > to get at I doubt if you can do all those things for a 'couple > grand' I've > bought my first sailboat in 1971. They always cost more than you > think. > Russ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948408410.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:08:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:08:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A399.7A3FE32A@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Sanders, It's a good book, and it's available online (http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net/rec/rs.html). I second your recommendation. - George SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > Okay, I know this is not a posting about A30s. But I've been rereading > Erskine Childers' book, The Riddle of the Sands, and I find it helpful escape > from the snows that are falling outside here in Manhttan this afternoon. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948413337.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 16:31:43 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing References: Message-ID: <3887A8EF.4A5791DB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie BTW, for some more armchair sailing, you might enjoy the online works of a friend of mine at http://www.ganssle.com/jack/ - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948414703.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:37:45 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:37:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <8b.df0910.25b92079@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, That hatch was originally wood, I'll bet. Maybe its been glassed. God if it has, the teak plywood had a tendency to weather away. I painted mine with white easy poxy two years ago. About 4 coats. The top layer of the plywood was almost gone. It's cooler below, and I don't have to play with that teak anymore. Those toe rails , at least on mine, were some kind of cheap teak, that does not look like Burmese teak when it is cleaned. Never gets that golden look. Check the wood under the genoa track rail. I don't know what Whitby used, but it rots away. I have replaced the wood under the jib track with teak, and plan to do the same with the genoa track. Alberg addicts don't like to admit it, but Whitby cut a lot of corners when they built this boat, partly because the Cheassapeke associaton wanted a bulk buy, and drove the price down. The old ice box drain taped into the cockpit drain is one thing. I replaced mine a few years ago. Its just a cheap piece of steel inside the hose, and outside the hose, with a short steel tube fasted to it. Mine was so rusty it scared me. It is below the water line, and if it broke, or leaked, it would sink the boat in a pretty short time. I replaced the cockpit drain hose, and let the Ice drain into the blige, and pump it out from there/ I don't have smells, and if you ever do, dump a half bottle of lysol cleaner in the bilge, wait a while, and pump. I have used a product called Teak Nu with some success. You will see it advertised in Sailing, for instance. It's water based. and two coats last about a year. Easy to touch up, and water clean up. I think it' s made in Ohio. I get al hot and sweaty just thinking of all the work you have to do. Regards, Russ PS. Another area, is that stupid gate valve for the waterm supply for the head. take it out and put in a ball valve, with a handel so you can see if it's opeor closed. Leave it closed unless you are useing it. The head is below the waterline too, and if it isn't shut off, you can sink the boat I replaced the gate valve for the engine water intake, It was leaking, and couldn't be repaired. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422265.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:47:40 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:47:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948422860.0 From parks24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:12:18 2000 From: parks24 at hotmail.com (Thomas Parks) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:12:18 PST Subject: [alberg30] brightwork Message-ID: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Thomas Parks" I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of difference!! My two cents!!! Tom Parks "Tradewinds" #48 P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might make a difference in endurance!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948424338.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:01:33 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <3896F552@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, the hatch may have been wood, and it slid back so easily when I locked up It felt like a fiberglass job but I knew that the boats had wood hatch tops originally. I will be checking all this out and then some. Thanks for the note on that because what ever they did, it looks like fiberglass as opposed to painted wood. All the rest of the stuff, including another suggestion on sikens(sp) is good. thanks, TO prevent getting too, windy, I am following along with a lot of things. Still getting a lot of good material on the boat and history including Jean De Sud and the circumnavigation. There is another sailor(dry docked--dried out? ) at work with whom I have been consulting. He raced a newport SF bay and his other favorite is Sabre though he is more into the modern underside, fin keels, skegs and racing. I thought i was on to area bargain on the Cat 22 for my son but it turned out the price was for the swing keel only on a poorly worded advertisement. My first words were: Do I need to drill holes in the bottom to drain the water out while sailing. He said no, but but thought the story was funny... only that he was getting so many calls due to the ad..but for a refit type boat not a swing keel only... dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427293.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:12:18 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948427938.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Thu Jan 20 20:28:55 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai References: <3896FBF9@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <3887E087.E67A080F@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie David, I've not seen the move, but ... http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017569.ihtml "dai at pdq.net" wrote: > > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Riddle of sand was the film name? > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948428935.0 From dai at pdq.net Thu Jan 20 20:47:35 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:47:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] RE: 66 a30 - Upon her course then Message-ID: <38971AB6@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I don't know if I will buy this boat. But I decided on her maximum price and what the offer below that was likely to be. I spent the week poking through an imaginary boat. But it was something I could touch. Into every nook and cranny, tasting the wood, the smell, I went. I felt a tension in her stiffness as she is brought close to the wind. It is not thinking. I see her with the eye of the soul, How strange. So I walk down to the dock, where men once embarked into the bay and the Gulf to cast nets for fish and shrimp by the sea from wooden boats she of their lineage. Myself am faded and dark...a image of a passenger perched upon, who might change with the passage of time. The boat will endure beyond me, and I might see myelf a nuance of it. She lies tender to healing at first, then settles in and firm upon her course. The dimness of night fades. Light strikes the lens of the retina with just a dream, as if a woman I once loved were she, floating away from shore. She born of them. Their deep lines, and strongly demarked shape are her curves. A strong machine yet so wildly pretty. Serene in movement after laying over to heel as if a head were supported against the pillow of a bed in the early breeze of morning blown through a window. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I made the "Close Racing" photo from one of the sites my wallpaper both at home and at work. It is a great photo. But it brings the dreams about sailing, racing, cruising, the boat, the water, the sky. The horizon is alive beyond, and in the wake is the stream of bubbles and foam which trail into the recesses of my brain. I even was able to do a bit of the job today. That was the real struggle. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948430055.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Fri Jan 21 05:28:11 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:28:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <001c01bf6413$5d7702a0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" The book "The Shipkiller" is authored by Justin Scott--great book! I first read it years ago, and a few times since. This posting makes me want to go grab it and read it again. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Rap1208 at aol.com To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 21:47 Subject: Re: [alberg30] Armchair sailing >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >To anyone looking for exciteing reading ( I finished it at 3:30 in the >morning) try to find a copy of "The Ship Killer" Can't remembe the authors >name, but it's a great book, would make one HELL of a movie Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461291.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Fri Jan 21 05:29:48 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:29:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] brightwork In-Reply-To: <20000121031218.7384.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000121082024.00b6eb00@pop.mail.nmu.edu> From: Brian Zinser Tom, I'm surprised at the conditions of some of these saltwater boats. In agreement that the boats that are in saltwater take a lot more abuse than our freshwater boats. I also think our shorter season has something to do with the better condition of our boats. If any of you coastal dwellers are ever looking for a new used boat, consider a Great Lakes boat. You can even deliver the boat yourself through either the Erie Canal or Illinois/Mississippi waterways. Up here on Lake Superior, I can go 4-5 seasons without even thinking about bottom paint. And at haul out, what little growth I have can be wipe off with a damp sponge. Brian Manana #134 At 07:12 PM 01/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >From: "Thomas Parks" > >I don't know Practical Sailor said about finishes for your topside but I >swear by Sikkens. I have new toe rails, new cockpit hatch covers, and have >refinished all the rest of my wood. All is covered with Sikkens, all I do in >the spring is wipe the wood off with rag and apply a new coat and all looks >nice all summer. One afternoon with a brush in hand makes a world of >difference!! My two cents!!! > >Tom Parks >"Tradewinds" #48 > >P.S. As an after thought - I sail on Lake Michigan with no salt, that might >make a difference in endurance!! >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! >Sign up for eLerts at: >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948461388.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 21 09:05:17 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:05:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for >smuggling arms into Ireland. Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of Ireland as the price of her independence. Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! Sandes McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948474317.0 From alberg30 at interactive.net Fri Jan 21 12:29:25 2000 From: alberg30 at interactive.net (alberg30) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:29:25 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> From: "alberg30" I am restoring my dingy. Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? West Marine sells a gunnel guard at $5/foot. I need roughly 20 ft. Not too eager to spend $100 for a dink I bought second hand for $200. I have considered using foam pipe insulation, but that necessitates being covered with some kind of fabric, then being wrapped in rope along the gunnel. Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Joe #499 "One Less Traveled" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:52 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass Hello, I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage cabinets. (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the existing piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go through in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. I have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on this there? Thanks, --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948483112.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 13:47:06 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <3888D395.92D607A2@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My informant says the title is "Home on the Waves." HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the program "Extreme Homes." Tom S A30 #412 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948491226.0 From gallen at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jan 21 14:05:15 2000 From: gallen at vcn.bc.ca (John Allen) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:05:15 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Motor mounts Message-ID: <001301bf645b$9992cec0$8b4066cf@gallen> From: "John Allen" For $2 I was able to get enough scrap industrial belting for the four mounts. Now how about a use for those internet server CDs -- shims perhaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 14:33:14 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:33:14 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to find, as well as other voyaging books. Start with Vito Dumas' "Alone through the Roaring Forties". The library must have a copy by you. Another good one is "Wind Alo, Wind Aloft" by Marin Marie. The all time classic, though, and maybe the first one you should read is 'N by E' by Rockwell Kent. Yes, start with the 'N by E'. Once you start it, you won't be able to put it down, I promise. Nice wood cuts by the author highlight each chapter. Of course, Joshua Slocum's 'Sailing Alone Around the World" was the first, from 1899 or so, and is very well written. But read 'N by E' first. Hope this helps, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948493994.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 14:49:01 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] engine alignment References: <2b.1158489.25b8e18b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888E210.D49421F8@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Dick ... I second what Lee said. I have filed it away for later use ... thanks again ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hi Dick, > thx for taking the time to write out the alignment instructions. Very > appreciated. > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494941.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 14:48:43 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:48:43 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and Collins Message-ID: <389A3140@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" were, were they not, compatriots in Michaels efforts until COllins established the "contract" for limited Irish home rule? David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948494923.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Fri Jan 21 15:12:11 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] GrayMarine rebuild References: <13.13159410.25ab3df3@aol.com> <200001201647500330.01E43B5A@mail> Message-ID: <3888E74A.AE1102D9@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I don't know what kind of head you have but mine is a Raritan PHII. I found a web site for them at ... which was helpful to me. Tom S A30 #412 "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: ...... Scaping, painting, varnishing the inside. Need to rebuild the head. > > > > Alan > Andante A30#152 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496331.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:19:49 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:19:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing - the film? Started the book today...dai Message-ID: <5a.6cdd57.25ba4395@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/20/00 11:48:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, dai at pdq.net writes: << Riddle of sand was the film name? dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net >> Yes, great film!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948496789.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Fri Jan 21 14:28:27 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:28:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim Dan Sternglass wrote: > From: Dan Sternglass > > Hello, > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts can > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > cabinets. > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port side, > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > existing > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > through > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be appreciated. > I > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > this there? > > Thanks, > > --Dan Sternglass > dans at stmktg.com > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailSH.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12476 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:39:13 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:13 EST Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard Message-ID: <26.11e6e13.25ba4821@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Joe, I've seen all kinds of materials used for gunnel guards on dinks. If you don't want to use the commercial stuff from West, or Defender (which is much cheaper than West, check it out before making a decision), I've seen boats with simple garden hose, split along one side, and fastened into the dinghy's rail with tacks, screws, or SS staples!! You can get real creative, if you want!! Old rope, bigger that 1/2" diam, can be fastened with glue, tied on, etc. All depends on how fancy/primitive you want to get!!! Have fun, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948497953.0 From tristan at one.net Fri Jan 21 15:52:44 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:52:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Re: Childers and The Riddle Of The Sands References: Message-ID: <3888ACD7.B1862999@one.net> From: Scott Wallace More on Childers...from The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers, published by Penguin Books - Forward _ "...Erskine Childers was born in 1870 (June 25, 1870 from library research) to Anglo-Irish parents and brought up in Ireland. He was educated at Haileybury and Trinity College, Cambridge and from 1895 to 1910 was a clerk in the House of Commons, spending part of his holidays sailing the North Sea and the Channel in a tiny yacht and exploring the shoals of the German, Dutch and Danish coasts. He volunteered at the outbreak of the South African war, and afterwards wrote a personal record, In the Ranks of the C.I.V. the fifth volume of the Times History of the War in South Africa, and two other books exposing the antiquated use of the Calvary against modern armaments. The Riddle of the Sands appeared in 1903. On a visit to Boston (Massachusetts - see what a hotbead of Irish unrest Boston is!) he met Mary (Molly) Alden Osgood, whom he married in 1904. In 1910 he resigned his post in the House of Commons to be free to work for the Irish cause, and in 1911 published The Framework of Home Rule, advocating full dominion status for Ireland. In World War I he did reconnaisance work in the R.N.A.S., served in the R.N.V.R., and as Intelligence Officer. He was awarded the D.S.C. (Distinguished Service Cross). After the war was completed he settled in Ireland to work and write for its complete independence. When the Free State was established he joined the Republican Army, and was one of the many leaders who were arrested and shot in the tragic civil war the followed. John Buchanan later wrote of him 'no revolution ever produced a nobler or purer spirit'" Foreward by Geoffrey Household, 1978 Reprinted 1987, Penguin BooksLtd., 27 Wright's Lane, London England I really enjoyed reading the book and have reread it probably three times so far! Scott Wallace, sailor of Spindrift, Pearson Electra 216 designed by Carl Alberg...first there was the Triton, then the 22'6" Electra midget cruiser, then the daysailer version of the Electra, the Ensign, largest keelboat class in America. SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 11:21:11 AM, Sunstone at idirect.com writes: > > >Erskin Childers was executed for High Treason against the Crown for > >smuggling arms into Ireland. > > Okay, I hate to sound pedantic, and I'm not about to advocate revolution > (although a little now and then hasn't been such a bad thing over the > centuries), but as a former resident of Ireland and holder of a degree in > Irish literature from Trinity, I cannot let Erskine's shadow be > misrepresented in such a manner. Erskine Childers was an Englishman who > harbored strong Irish nationalistic sympathies. He did run guns for the > Irish rebels in 1914 aboard his yawl, ASGARD, but the English never caught > him -- or if they did, they certainly didn't execute him. That nasty task > was left to the Irish themselves. Ireland fell into civil war following the > south's independence from England in 1922, when hardliners formed the IRA to > fight those who had advocated the "compromise" that led to the division of > Ireland as the price of her independence. > > Like many revolutionaries before him, Childers was ultimately consumed by the > forces he helped unleash. Dissatisfied by the division of of Ireland as the > price of independence, Childers joined the IRA (a very different group then > than now) and became its official propagandist. (Hey, it's a title to which > I aspire.) The Irish Free State, disregarding his many contributions to > Irish independence (imagine, for example, running rifles in your Alberg 30, > out of principle, to be used in armed revolt against your own country of > birth), arrested and executed him by firing squad on November 24, 1922. > Despite (or, to some, because of) his fate, Childers is today seen as > something of a martyr/hero in Ireland. > > For a giggle -- I do NOT endorse the IRA! -- surf over to > > http://members.aol.com/ifcnj/ > > where you can see the home page of the "Irish Freedom Committee of NJ," and > which features a nice picture of Erskine titled, "An Englishman who was one > of Ireland's proudest sons. A true fallen son of the Republic." > > Okay, enough! The bottom line is that Riddle of the Sands is just about the > only book I've ever read that gives an authentic sense of cruising aboard a > 30-foot sailboat. Childers isn't Joyce or Shaw; the writing has more in > common with Ambler or Le Carre; but it's a great way to put yourself on the > water without leaving the warmth of your living room. If anyone has any good > suggestions for others that do the same, I'm all ears! > > Sandes McNew > WILD ELF (# 297) > Oyster Bay, New York > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948498764.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Fri Jan 21 19:09:09 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Christopher Sousa) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:09 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> <3888DD89.1AAB1E36@csinet.net> Message-ID: <38891F55.9F4BB4F3@net1plus.com> From: Christopher Sousa Dan and the Alberg Team: The other option one which was used on Carina Vela was Delrin cut 1/2 X 1/4 using the genoa track as a template to predrill the holes. The material will not rot and is flexiable enough for the curve of the gunnel. Agree with Jim, there isn't any need to cut or damage the hull all fittings are accessable from inside the cabin. I also plan on replacing the wooden piece under the track for the mast fitting in the spring using Delrin as well. All material cost approx. $60-70 from a local plastic supply house. Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Jim wrote: > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > > Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: Dan Sternglass > > > > Hello, > > > > I need to make 2 repairs to my 1966 A-30: > > > > (1) I need to replace the wood under the Genoa tracks. It appears > > that > > the bolts go all the way through the deck, and thus that the nuts > > can > > only be reached by cutting into the fiberglass behind the storage > > cabinets. > > > > (2) In a related vein, about 2 feet of toe rail is rotted, port > > side, > > aft starting at about the front of the cockpit. I could use the > > existing > > piece for a pattern, or have a local shop make me the piece. With > > regards to removing and installing, it apears that the bolts go > > through > > in the same manner as the genoa track bolts. Do I also have ot cut > > fiberglass to gain access to the nuts? > > > > Any comments from anyone who has done these jobs would be > > appreciated. I > > have not yet checked the maintenance manual, is there information on > > > > this there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Dan Sternglass > > dans at stmktg.com > > "Watcher of the Skies" 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510549.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:09:52 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3888F550.69B14C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Joe, I used old garden hose (reinforced rubber) on one of our dinghies. Where the old gunwhale covering was riveted on, I used stainless nuts and bolts. The little ones are pretty cheap by the box of 100 (at Ace Hardware in Severna Park). - George > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948499792.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:16:45 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:16:45 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <3888F6ED.9B5C25E6@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Dan, Like Jim said, you shouldn't have to cut any fiberglass. Reach way back and up inside those lockers and you'll find the nuts. Put a pair of vice-grips on the nut and then you can turn the screw from the outside. Bang the screws out and buy new ones; it's not worth the labor to salvage the old ones. On the newer boats, the toe rail is held on with wood screws, not machine screws. - George --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948500205.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Fri Jan 21 16:32:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:32:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books References: <60.7e785f.25ba38aa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3888FA86.D4F14260@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > One of my hobbies is collecting as many of the small boat (25-45 feet) > single-handed voyaging books from the 20's and 30's as I have been able to > find, as well as other voyaging books. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948501126.0 From A30240 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:19:33 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: A30240 at aol.com For a spacer on Isa Lei, I went to Home Depot, the section with plastic latice and bought a piece of trim. It is "U" shape and designed to cover the raw edge of the latice. I cut the bottom of the "U" off leaving me two strips 1/2" wide 8 feet long. I used the track as a guide to drill it (1/4" holes) and replaced the track. Removing the track was no problem, if you don't count having to use a brace to turn the bolts. The nuts were easy to find with out cutting but the bolts were well "pretzeled". Had to replace most of them. The white plastic "U" is flexable and seals the screw holes as well as 5200, which I also used. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948503973.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:03 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Thanks for the alignment info Message-ID: <3889063B.A1868B2E@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" Dick, thanks for the alignment instructions. I've filed them for Spring. Thanks to others who answered my plea as well. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504123.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 17:22:48 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389AD3BF@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Not one blockbuster has the film in Texas. Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948504168.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Fri Jan 21 13:09:50 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:50 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sailing books References: <948443217.3393@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3888CB1D.10F40E17@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White If you're reading Riddle of the Sands, try John Buchan's "Thirty-Nine Steps" or some of Nevil Shute. Shute was an aeronautical engineer, sports car racer and small boat sailor who wrote books to relax from the stress of his engineering work. "Trustee from the Toolroom" is my favorite and has a fair amount of small boat sailing in it as does "Landfall," "Marazan," "The Breaking Wave," Stephen Morris" and some others. Of course he wrote "On the Beach" and "No Highway, which were made into movies. Others are Alain Gerbault's "Fight of the Firecrest," Chay Blyth's "The Impossible Voyage" and Peter Heaton's "Cruising" and "Sailing." Gordon White, A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948488990.0 From dai at pdq.net Fri Jan 21 19:09:19 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:09:19 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389B1EE0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" It may seem a bit funny since most of you know me by introduction and being a resident of Texas. I used to live in Chicago though, or more precisely, Wicker Park. I have been thinking of moving back to the great lakes area, Farmington hills is my employers main site. Any known boats for sale there? I am a bit envious of your gathering and perhaps one day, I will own an Alberg design of one sort. Maybe the proposed boat here in Texas. Just curious.... Dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948510559.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:42 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948521922.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:24:44 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:24:44 EST Subject: [alberg30] Armchair sailing Message-ID: <6b.f32ba6.25baa72c@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I found just one flaw in "the shipkiller". Early in the book, our hero and his wife encounter a squall. The book tells how he gets ready for it. He reefs the mizzen. Only a short time later, he says, " next time I'll reef the mizzen>"Thats the only flaw I found i found, a very good read Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948522284.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:46:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:46:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] sailing books Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Another good book, I've found "Princess" to be charming. Started before WW II, it's about a friendship sloop. Also a fine book about almost everything, is a book called "Pratical Cruising" by Kells. It talks about how do do everything, even shipwreck. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523561.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 22:50:01 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:50:01 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <81.7d09ca.25baad19@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Dai, my boat is sorta for sale, it's on Lk ST clair, al the way around the mitten. I'm the second owner. She is in very good shape. Always a freshwater boat. But I think I may want more than you want to pay. Thre aren't alot of projects to keep you busy though. You might just go sailing. Russ Pfeiffer rap1208 at aol.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948523801.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 07:57:22 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <3889D35F.3DD01E3F@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Joe... On Half Bath, Bathtub Mary's dinky... We use pool noodles with a 1" hole in the center, I slice into the core with a blade and then open them enough to wedge them over the gunnel. They are held in place with plastic wire ties every 8" put through holes and around the noodle and pulled tight. The pool noodle is a tuffer material than std. pipe insulation. regards- Greg > alberg30 wrote: > > From: "alberg30" > > I am restoring my dingy. > > Does anyone have a supplier for a soft "gunnel guard" that can be > attached to the gunnel of a fiberglass dingy? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556642.0 From tlackey1 at maine.rr.com Sat Jan 22 08:01:20 2000 From: tlackey1 at maine.rr.com (Timothy C. Lackey) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:01:20 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special Message-ID: <005d01bf64f1$f6ebaec0$5f905d18@default.maine.rr.com> From: "Timothy C. Lackey" I copied this description from the HGTV website: "Home on the Waves Ahoy, there! Families who live year-round on fabulous seaworthy vessels invite viewers onboard to get a flavor of the lifestyle that the "live-aboards" love. The one-hour primetime special showcases five types of boats -- multimillion-dollar luxury; high end; homey; antique; and one-of-a-kind -- and features key elements of their design, decor and maintenance. These are not weekend or vacation houseboats; they are truly home to their happy owners, who discuss their unusual lifestyle and the thrill of realizing their dream. Leonor Anthony hosts. Home on the Waves airs Sunday, January 23 at 9 p.m. and midnight EST." (from www.hgtv.com) Draw your own conclusions! I may tune in, but I can envision turning it off in disgust after a short while. Sounds not too realistic. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sutherland To: alberg30 at onelist.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 16:46 Subject: [alberg30] TV Special >From: Tom Sutherland > > >I just heard about an hour-long special about living aboard. My >informant >says the title is "Home on the Waves." > >HGTV, Sunday, January 23. At 9 p.m. Eastern. Right after the >program "Extreme Homes." > >Tom S >A30 #412 > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948556880.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:09:16 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:09:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Message-ID: <47.f17504.25bb3e3c@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdinwiddie at min.net writes: << From: George Dinwiddie Lee Have you read "The Boy, Me and the Cat" by Henry M. Plummer? It's about a trip down the waterway in 1912-1913 in a Cape Cod catboat. - George >> No, George, I haven't. I'll look out for it. thx!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560956.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 08:55:17 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:55:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track Message-ID: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948560117.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:40:11 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:40:11 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sailing Books Source Message-ID: <5b.105468c.25bb457b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Sanders, and other A30er's in NY area, Do you know about the Strand Bookstore, on Broadway and E12th st? One of the biggest 2nd hand bookstores in the world, and they have a big sailing section. And their prices are very fair. I've bought a large amount of my books there. It's worth a weekly trip, their turnover is so rapid. Great airplane books too, in the adjoining area! Most likely, a copy of 'N by E' will show up within a couple of weeks, if one isn't on the shelf right now, for under 10 bucks. Go there with plenty of time to browse......you won't be able to help yourself. :) Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562811.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:30:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:30:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 Message-ID: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 1:19:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. Russ >> Hi Russ, As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be heavy, or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a very easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more effective in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or someone gets sloppy with the hose!!! As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) I guess I'm on my own. regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948562258.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:15:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:15:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <40.a2e243.25bb3fbc@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com David, Sorry to hear that. It was readily available in NY. Maybe you can mailorder it from Armchair Sailor in Newport, RI, or some other big marine book/video source. Mystic Seaport Gift Shop has a lot of these things, too. Sounds like it's becoming an expensive chore, though. Blockbuster in texas wouldn't order it for you, I guess. What about your public lilbrary? do they carry videos? They might order one for you if you requested it and then it would be free. Hope this helps, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948561340.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 10:06:08 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:06:08 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <389C5E00@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Russ, And others. I am trying to appraise what things are, and I am considering changing my career path a bit to Michigan. I kinda feel that the freshwater boats may be a better bargain in general.... So if you want to reply offline, I am merely pricing what good condition boats are valued at. I am unable to fulfill what I wished to do today. My youngest son has a school project which required his attendence as it was a group thing. So I will be going to look at the Alberg here on Sunday instead. Also, perhaps get thoughts on the state of boats Fresh v Salt Water and so on. More or less, just thinking aloud. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948564368.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 22 16:24:41 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:41 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] The Riddle in the Sand - not in Texas it ain't Message-ID: <389D2857@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Library in Texas? ha, ha, ha. Just kidding. In houston? yeah, maybe. In Tomball? They still chew tobacco, swear like Christians but don't rope like em. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948587081.0 From jbcundif at csinet.net Sat Jan 22 16:05:30 2000 From: jbcundif at csinet.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:05:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> From: Jim The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbcundif at csinet.net writes: > > << From: Jim > > We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All > > bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting > of > fiberglass was necessary. > Jim > >> > Hi Jim, > When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the > genny > track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit > there, > waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same > thing, > and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older > vertical > toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? > Thx, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmail61.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Sat Jan 22 17:18:33 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Russ, > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > available. > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > heavy, > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > very > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > effective > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > someone gets > sloppy with the hose!!! > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > I guess > I'm on my own. > regards, > Lee > Stargazer #255 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948590313.0 From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:54:25 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Message-ID: <388A5F51.F89E0E61@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" With the measurements, it would be fairly easy to make one. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Sutherland Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:18:33 -0500 Size: 4353 URL: From blancs at us.net Sat Jan 22 17:56:17 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea]] Message-ID: <388A5FC1.626A328D@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" I should have said that with the measurements it would be fairly easy to make one out of wood. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "T. K. Blanc" Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea] Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:25 -0500 Size: 6998 URL: From bydel at aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:19:44 2000 From: bydel at aol.com (bydel at aol.com) Date: 23 Jan 2000 02:19:44 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> From: bydel at aol.com I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948593984.0 From apk2 at home.com Sat Jan 22 19:18:26 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods In-Reply-To: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has one. Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. Alan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the front of >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and runs >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill small >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it has a >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close as you >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > >Russ > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948597506.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 20:11:15 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:11:15 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948600675.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 21:14:17 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:14:17 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: <4d.e8448c.25bbe829@aol.com> From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Russ, When you put together a description and price for your Alberg 30, I'd be interested in a copy. Eric Jacobson 1006 West 43rd ST. Richmond, VA 23225 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948604457.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sat Jan 22 23:45:46 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:45:46 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] Digest Number 498 References: <948615693.485@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388AB1AA.C236D7B@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read Beigel used to make sea hoods. Put one on my boat about five years ago. - Gordon A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948613546.0 From jsss at net1plus.com Sun Jan 23 05:40:13 2000 From: jsss at net1plus.com (Joyce Sousa) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:40:13 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> <388A5653.3FF71714@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388B04BD.425EF105@net1plus.com> From: Joyce Sousa Tom, Great idea and this is an option. Making a mold from a sea hood should be quite easy once it is available it could be passed to other Alberg owners. Does anyone have a seahood that has been removed and not in use? Stephen Sousa #114 Carina Vela Tom Sutherland wrote: > From: Tom Sutherland > > Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be > able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to > make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago > and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has > anyone ever tried this ? > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Russ, > > As usual, a very practical solution from you!!! > > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question > > about the > > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, > > and if he > > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the > > sea > > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily > > available. > > I've seen nice wooden ones built on otherr boats,, though they must be > > heavy, > > or not as strong as the glass ones. Your door sweep idea would be a > > very > > easy fix, though of course a real sea hood will be sliightly more > > effective > > in keeping water out of the cabin when the going gets rough, or > > someone gets > > sloppy with the hose!!! > > As Mr. Boyle never got back to me (did he return anyone else's call?) > > I guess > > I'm on my own. > > regards, > > Lee > > Stargazer #255 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ONElist Sponsor] > > Please click above to support our sponsor > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948634813.0 From blancs at us.net Sun Jan 23 06:06:08 2000 From: blancs at us.net (T. K. Blanc) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Size: 4165 URL: From TS7007 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 09:46:33 2000 From: TS7007 at aol.com (TS7007 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:46:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: From: TS7007 at aol.com The seahood on my boat is currently off, if anybody would like to use it as a templet. the boat is in Eliot Me. indoors and I'm doing a re-fit of the interior. My main sliding hatch was wooded as well as the fore hatch and lazertte. I'm going to raise the sea hood this spring so that the hatch will slide under it but in the mean time?????????? Tom Seybold Nyack, NY (# 5 ) Mandolaire --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948649593.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 23 11:37:57 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] (no subject) - more.....on the 66 A30 References: <9b.ae489d.25bb4352@aol.com> Message-ID: <388B5895.D2EFFF37@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, Bill Boyle did make a sea-hood for an older boat (Mustang) once, but it didn't fit very well. The molds he got were the very last ones and weren't in very good shape when he got them. Read Beigel once displayed a sea-hood he'd made. It was beautifully laid up with epoxy resin. I don't know if he ever sold any, but that was his intent at the time. Read sometimes procrastinates on a job, but he can do beautiful work when he's feeling motivated. I'd suggest giving him a call if you're interested in a sea-hood. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote:[snip] > One of the things I was going to ask Wm. Boyle besides the question about the > availability of the plans,was if he had the molds for the sea hood, and if he > sold them seperately. 255 is of the older design, built without the sea > hood, and I thought I could retro-fit one, if they were readily available. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948656277.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:33:18 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:33:18 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <39.84bdf7.25bcdbae@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 8:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, sutherlandt at prodigy.net writes: << From: Tom Sutherland Lee ... As I was reading your post it occurred to me that you might be able borrow a fiberglass sea hood from a fellow Alberger and use it to make your own mold. I removed the sea hood from # 412 about a year ago and I can't help but think that this would be quite possible. ....Has anyone ever tried this ? Tom S A30 #412 >> Hi Tom, That is a good suggestion, but if it comes to that, I'll make one of wood. With solid teak sides, a teak plywood top, and ribs across the top, athwartships, as you can see on many older scandinavian boats hatches, it should be strong enough, and will be beautiful. Thx, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948666798.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 16:07:12 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Erick, I'll send it along with a picture. Russ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948672432.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 06:18:06 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard discharge. On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's in Annapolis. The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX Type I MSD. About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made a group purchase of these units and had group work days where they installed them. These units have about an 8 gallon tank, a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit. They chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no discharge"). I would strongly recommend not pumping these out in creeks or harbors. Wait until you're in deeper water with a good exchange with the ocean. You don't want to increase the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the coliform bacteria. Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the product SAN-X. The parts are interchangeable. Sealand discontinued support for these units a few years back, but I *think* they may be supporting them again. I've not needed any parts since then, so haven't investigated. The head itself operates just like any other marine head. you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is necessary, into the tank. You want to make sure everything makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water as possible so you don't fill up the tank. To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to "treat and discharge." There will be a delay, and then the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into the tank. Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because of the power drain. When it's done, a light comes on and you can pump the tank out. The way most of these were installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8 pump mounted such that the handle extends through the bulkhead into the head compartment. Open the through-hull and pump until the tank is empty. Pump a little water into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again. It's pretty basic and simple. When you rebuild the pumpout pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead of neoprene. That's much harder to find. More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks (a.k.a. Type III MSD). The advantages of a holding tank includes: 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to a pump-out station). 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical, formaldehyde. 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space. 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics to die. The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out station to get rid of the effluent. This is becoming much less of a problem in many areas. Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles. This increases the complexity of the plumbing. Also, if the system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting, you are in violation of U.S. law. Hope this helps, George bydel at aol.com wrote: > > From: bydel at aol.com > > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth. > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate. > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948723486.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 24 06:55:11 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:11 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Read Beigel's Sea Hood Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB028737AA@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" George is right, Read makes a beautiful one, and I had him make one for Calliope last summer. I would have attempted something like this myself, but I am very allergic to fiberglass resins and cannot work with them. Anyway, Reid dropped by my boat to check it out and about two weeks later I had the hood. Sturdy, practical, and the cost, offhand, was about $250. I was really glad we had it three weeks later when we were taking water over the bow and decks as we headed upwind down the very choppy Delaware Bay. Tom F. Calliope#287 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725711.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 06:58:03 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hoods References: <96.309465.25baa5c2@aol.com> <200001222218260060.02289F5C@mail> Message-ID: <388C6824.3C009BA0@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland Alan ... I had the very same concerns as you but finally just bit the bullet and removed the Sea Hood. It turned out to be pretty simple project and I felt good about cleaning out all of the dirt and ect. which had built up over the years. Also, I am told that it is good to rebed everything after so much time. (30 years in the case of #412) Tom S A30 #412 InCahoots "Alan P. Kefauver" wrote: > From: "Alan P. Kefauver" > > Sea Hood must have been an option, as Andante#152 sold in 1965 has > one. > > Speaking of Sea Hoods, how do you remove the sliding hatch without > removing the Sea Hood? I removed the metal fingers that fit under the > track, but something is still holding the hatch in the back, and I > can't see what it is. Can't reach anything either. I don't want to > have to remove the Sea Hood and reinstall (rebed etc.) unless > absolutely necessary when I replace the hatch. > Alan > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 1/22/2000 at 1:18 AM Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > > >From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > > >One other suggestion, on older boats there was no sea hood, on the > front of > >the sliding hatch, and sometimes a big wave floods the cabin top, and > runs > >below. The cure is a piece of door sweep, plastic and metal. Drill > small > >holes to take brass wood screws. and screw it in place. Make sure it > has a > >little curve to it, for a good seal. trim to fit the sides as close > as you > >can. Stops almost al the water. Very cheap cure. > > > >Russ > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free > coupons! > > Click Here > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime? You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it. Sign up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948725883.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 07:12:00 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 07:12:00 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. Any holding tank suggestions? Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? Thanks, Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 On Mon, 24 January 2000, George Dinwiddie wrote: > > > From: > George Dinwiddie >

> > The Alberg 30 came with a standard marine head with direct overboard
> discharge.? On our boat, it's a "Brydon Boy" head, a model long
> since discontinued, though rebuild kits are available from Fawcett's
> in Annapolis.
>
> The tank and treatment system you mention is the Mansfield TDX
> Type I MSD.? About 15 years ago, the Alberg 30 Association made
> a group purchase of these units and had group work days where
> they installed them.? These units have about an 8 gallon tank,
> a bottle of formaldehyde, and an electronic control unit.? They
> chemically treat the sewage and mechanically pulverize it for
> legal discharge overboard (except in zones designated "no
> discharge").? I would strongly recommend not pumping these
> out in creeks or harbors.? Wait until you're in deeper water
> with a good exchange with the ocean.? You don't want to increase
> the nitrogen load on the ecosystem even if you've kill the
> coliform bacteria.
>
> Sealand purchased this business from Mansfield and called the
> product SAN-X.? The parts are interchangeable.? Sealand
> discontinued support for these units a few years back, but
> I *think* they may be supporting them again.? I've not needed
> any parts since then, so haven't investigated.
>
> The head itself operates just like any other marine head.
> you pump the contents, and as much water as you feel is
> necessary, into the tank.? You want to make sure everything
> makes it to the tank, but you want to pump as little water
> as possible so you don't fill up the tank.
>
> To operate the treatment system, you flip the switch to
> "treat and discharge."? There will be a delay, and then
> the chemical pump puts about a quart of formaldehyde into
> the tank.? Then the macerator pump runs for about 20
> minutes.? We prefer to do this while motoring because
> of the power drain.? When it's done, a light comes on and
> you can pump the tank out.? The way most of these were
> installed on the A30, this is done with a Whale gusher 8
> pump mounted such that the handle extends through the
> bulkhead into the head compartment.? Open the through-hull
> and pump until the tank is empty.? Pump a little water
> into the tank via the head and then pump the tank out again.
>
> It's pretty basic and simple.? When you rebuild the pumpout
> pump, you should try to get a nitrile rebuild kit instead
> of neoprene.? That's much harder to find.
>
> More recently, people have generally been putting in holding tanks
> (a.k.a. Type III MSD).? The advantages of a holding tank includes:
> ????? 1. no discharge into the water at all (you have to go to
> a pump-out station).
> ????? 2. you don't have to mess about with that nasty chemical,
> formaldehyde.
> ????? 3. you can get a bigger tank to fit into the same space
> as the TDX unit, or you can fit a tank into a different space.
> ????? 4. a holding tank is much cheaper to purchase than a
> treatment system and there are no moving parts or electronics
> to die.
>
> The biggest disadvantage is that you do have to go to a pump-out
> station to get rid of the effluent.? This is becoming much
> less of a problem in many areas.
>
> Many people with holding tanks also have a means to pump them
> overboard in an emergency or when offshore more than 3 miles.
> This increases the complexity of the plumbing.? Also, if the
> system in not "secured" in the no-overboard-pumpout setting,
> you are in violation of U.S. law.
>
> Hope this helps,
> ????? George
>
>
> bydel at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: bydel at aol.com
> >
> > I would be very interested in a discussion on the operation of the head. I purchased #441 a few weeks ago and got to spend a day poking about on her. She is now in Annapolis and I am in North Carolina. If I remember correctly, I was told that she has a Mansfield Head with a small holding tank under the V-Berth.
> > There was a bottle of something next to the head and the pump handle. Also to the right of the head was a black switchplate with a switch, although I can't remember what it said on the plate.
> > I know that this is pretty basic, but I have to start somewhere.
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948726720.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:21:44 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124151200.25772.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C7C18.A52FD631@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Mike Lehman and Jim Mennucci found a tank that fits in the same place as the TDX tank. I think it holds about 15 gallons. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Where do people put holding tanks? My TDX tank was under the port side v-berth. It seemed hopelessly broken and I couldn't find parts so I installed a big porta-pottie as a stop-gap solution. It actually works quite well for the four of us for three or four days - except that it's six gallon capacity makes it too tall for comfort - but we'll need more capacity to stay our longer. > > Any holding tank suggestions? > > Also, where are folks finding pumpout stations? > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948730904.0 From rhorton at pwcgov.org Mon Jan 24 08:25:28 2000 From: rhorton at pwcgov.org (Horton, Ross G.) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948731128.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 08:44:36 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 08:44:36 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 08:51:28 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:51:28 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <20000124164436.14813.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <388C8310.75F765B3@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Kevin, Scott Maury put a 10-gallon tank behind the head. See the March 1997 Mainsheet or the Maintenance Manual. - George blancs at us.net wrote: > > From: blancs at us.net > > Thanks George. I've been wondering how much of a tank could fit in the > lockers directly behind the head, shelves removed, of course. The way > we use the boat the space under the vee berth is important (each kid > gets one side, one shelf, one drawer, etc.) Has anyone installed a > holding tank behind the head? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948732688.0 From blancs at us.net Mon Jan 24 09:23:05 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <20000124172305.14568.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:24 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:30:24 EST Subject: [alberg30] Sea Hood Idea Message-ID: <51.719874.25bde630@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/22/00 11:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rap1208 at aol.com writes: << From: Rap1208 at aol.com Lee,, I've ben out in some nasty weather in Lk Huron, with big waves, about 3 boat lengths between wave crest, and the ocasional breaking wave. One even broke afainst the stern and came crashing into the cockpit. The botom hatch board was in place, so no harm was done, except for the helmsman getting a cold shower. If there was water comeing in around the hatch, we didn't notice it. I uset to think about a sea hood, but my fix worked for me. In really bad weather, no boat is really ever dry. Russ Pfeiffer >> Hey Russ, Sounds like a great sail!! Wish I had been along!! No, but seriously, the sea hood sounds great to me from my experiences on the alberg 22 we had. She was a great little ship, and could realy take it. When we had the second reef in the main, and a little spitfire jib up, we were good to 40 knots of wind, and probably beyond. She really handled well. The only thing was.....with her low freeboard, and her handling characteristics, she did have a tendency to stick her bow into oncoming waves if they were steep, as opposed to rising up over them. When she did that, a veritable wall of water would rush aft, over the cabin top, and that space between the hatch and the cabin top let water down below. On Long Island Sound, it's salt water, so it doesn't just go away. Bunks, cushions, etc, have to be rinsed in fresh water to get out the salt, if you ever want them to really dry. I imagine the A 30 is drier in those conditions, but the designs are so similar, that the sea hood to prevent the occasional dousing and keep the living quarters more pleasant seems like a very good idea. Sure, we could live without it, but I hate a wet bunk!! :) regards, Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735024.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:36:58 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:36:58 EST Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] Message-ID: <81.8b2729.25bde7ba@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/23/00 9:08:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, blancs at us.net writes: << From: "T. K. Blanc" The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. Kevin Blanc Terrapin, #254 >> That's how mine works, too. we have SS trim that the hatchboards slide inside of. Will replace them with teak one of these days. Kind of neat that you are #254, Terrapin. Our boats were probably side by side at the factory in 1967!! Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948735418.0 From JPhipps at asf.com Mon Jan 24 10:12:35 2000 From: JPhipps at asf.com (Jack Phipps) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] gunnel guard for dinks Message-ID: <2B0FC65846A0D311B7C800508B615BB407546F@mercury.asf.com> From: Jack Phipps Another solution is if you know someone who works for an escalator company, you can get the handrail they discard. They might be large for a dingy though. They can also be used on docks. They snap perfectly over a 2x2. From: "Horton, Ross G." I used a piece of used 3 inch fire hose with a piece of 3/4 in line in it as a gunnel guard on a homebuilt Nutshell pram. The fire hose usually has two layers of a very tough fabric with a rubber-like substance bonded to the interior layer. I cut the hose in appropriate lengths with a hacksaw and pulled the outside cover off. I then inserted the old line in the hose and fastened it to the gunnel with small stainless screws with washers. You could also use the whole hose without the line. Fasten the top first by laying the hose to the inside of the gunnel screwing it down every 3 inches or so and then folding the hose over the top of the screws so that they do not show from the outside. Then fasten the bottom edge. The fabric can be cleaned up with bleach and detergent and looks good after 5 years. Fire hose gets thrown out by fire departments all the time and I got it for free. Larger fire hose is also great as a guard on docks and pilings. Ross Horton Delphi, #40 _____ ONElist Sponsor Please click above to support our sponsor _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 24 11:02:08 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> Message-ID: <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. Tom S A30 #412 PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! George Dinwiddie wrote: ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > of the power drain....... --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! Sign up for eLerts at: Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948740528.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 24 14:47:04 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Head References: <948593984.19986@onelist.com> <388C5F1E.D69FE3@min.net> <388CA175.39117424@prodigy.net> Message-ID: <388CD668.41B76787@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Tom, Yep, it's a long time. It has to reduce all the solids to small enough particles to satisfy the feds. - George Tom Sutherland wrote: > > George .... Is this correct ? Or should that be 20 seconds ? ... Just > curious. 20 minutes seems a long time. > > Tom S > A30 #412 > > PS ... Thanks for the very thorough explanation of that system ! > > George Dinwiddie wrote: > > ......Then the macerator pump runs for about 20 > > > minutes. We prefer to do this while motoring because > > of the power drain....... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948754024.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Mon Jan 24 23:41:59 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:41:59 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <948788635.14035@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388D53C7.8B4CAD42@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White Read made a fine sea hood for me but I installed it myself. The first time I used wood screws which were not secure enough so I re-did it last year with stainless machine screws with nuts on the inside. Read also replaced my mast after my boat was hit by a tornado on the Severn River (I was not aboard at the time). He did an absolutely beautiful job but he drove me up the wall with the time he took. The boat was damaged in October and the job was not completed until the following Fourth of July. - Gordon White A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948786119.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 15:46:50 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:46:50 EST Subject: [alberg30] Head Message-ID: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com I bought a flexable tank that fits there too, 15 gal, works pretty good. Suggest you put in new, high quality hoses, to prevent oder, Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948844010.0 From apk2 at home.com Tue Jan 25 18:52:15 2000 From: apk2 at home.com (Alan P. Kefauver) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [alberg30] Sea Hoods] In-Reply-To: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> References: <388B0AD0.D8EFDBA@us.net> Message-ID: <200001252152150250.00B71BDF@mail> From: "Alan P. Kefauver" Something else seems to be holding mine in the rear under the sea hood. Alan-Andante#152 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/23/2000 at 9:06 AM T. K. Blanc wrote: >From: "T. K. Blanc" > >The only way I ever figured out how to do it was to remove the trim from >either side of the companionway, then slide it straight out. > >Kevin Blanc >Terrapin, #254 > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948855135.0 From CMJ1006 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:31:45 2000 From: CMJ1006 at aol.com (CMJ1006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:31:45 EST Subject: [alberg30] I have a new query re- Albergs for sale on the great lakes Message-ID: From: CMJ1006 at aol.com Thank you very much. Eric Jacobson --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948861105.0 From lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA Wed Jan 26 07:36:23 2000 From: lincoln at cc.UManitoba.CA (Bob Lincoln) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Head In-Reply-To: <88.7670c2.25bf8fea@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001bf6813$19e30940$73a4b382@lincoln.UManitoba.CA> From: "Bob Lincoln" There is a very complete document prepared by Peggie Hall on marine sanitation on the web. Discusses why hoses aren't necessarily the cause of problems, the macerator/formaldehyde story, etc. Some good suggestions on making an installation smellproof. see http://boatbuilding.com Bob Lincoln Indigo 590 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948900983.0 From Shawnwilliam at msn.com Wed Jan 26 13:29:44 2000 From: Shawnwilliam at msn.com (Shawn Orr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:44 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track References: <32.791293.25bb3af5@aol.com> <388A45C4.816DB8CB@csinet.net> Message-ID: <005201bf6844$77b0bf00$65de153f@unit01> From: "Shawn Orr" I always thought that the toe rail bolts kept together the deck to the hull and was told not to take the rail off because the joint integrity would be compromised. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Shawn Orr IL Molino #307 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: alberg30 at onelist.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track The Toe Rail popped out after the Genoa track bolts were removed. It might have been wiser to put bolts back thru after the track was removed but didn't expect that to happen. We will try to pull the toe rail back but haven't done it yet because we are going to refinish the toerail too as well as the other wood. To be clear it is not my boat, I am just helping some here and there. I believe the hull number is close to yours and the toe rail is the vertical kind. Not sure what a newer type looks like. Jim FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/21/00 6:28:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbcundif at csinet.net writes: << From: Jim We just took the Genoa tracks off last weekend for the same reason.All bolts were accessible although some were not convienient. No cutting of fiberglass was necessary. Jim >> Hi Jim, When you had all the bolts out to get to the spacer wood beneath the genny track, what did your toe rail do? Did it spring out, or just sit there, waiting to be rebedded and rebolted? I eventualy have to do the same thing, and I was just curious how you found things. Do you have the older vertical toe rail, like mine, or the newer design? Thx, Lee Stargazer #255 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please click above to support our sponsor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halifaxnovascotia at canada.com Wed Jan 26 18:59:13 2000 From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com (halifaxnovascotia at canada.com) Date: 27 Jan 2000 02:59:13 -0000 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone Message-ID: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. Dear Mr. Murray, Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. joe murray --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948941953.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Wed Jan 26 19:44:27 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:44:27 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone References: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <388FBF19.BC970010@idirect.com> From: John Birch Joe Murray; Greetings, I know Ron well and knew Charlie too- he was a fine sailor and a kindly gent. I raced against both of them first in Wind Rose my A-30, and then as guest helmsman in Dolc? Vita (Harry Grigat's boat) for 6 years when we traded up to an A-37. Ron is a first rate sailor and a real task to beat, one was the last Great Lakes Championships he raced when we successfully lee bowed him at the start and then covered him in a close tacking duel. He finished half a boat length behind us as we took the '98 GLC. We teamed with him to defend from the American's in the Syronelle Team races. I'd rather have him on my team than against us. When ever we did manage to beat him, it was close and always involved a close tacking duel - Ron was as magnanimous in defeat as in victory and he beat us often too. We worked him hard for those three GLCs he won and he deserved them. Ron spent a lot of time preparing the boat and finishing the bottom so please paint it carefully as that bottom was as smooth as they come and it took a lot of work to get her that way. The sails are first rate and if you fold 'em diligently and carefully they will be devastating on a race course for many years to come. Ron did some really interesting work to the boat, reglassing the keel ballast from inside and reinforcing the forward third of the boat for offshore work. He also did the mast step, a chronic problem for many 30's and it should be solved. I don't know what you paid for her but what ever it was you have bought a fine boat with a happy history, a lucky ship and I have nothing but respect for her two previous owners. I have come to learn that Albergs tend to attract a disproportionate number of nice, interesting people - it must be the synergy between the boat and the souls who are attracted to them. I'm sure you will fit her just fine. Fair winds, we miss her up here - remember you are only borrowing her from the future. Take care, and consider joining the Great Lakes Alberg Association. http://grasp.ca/alberg/ Keep in touch. Cheers, John Birch, Sunstone KC-65 halifaxnovascotia at canada.com wrote: > From: halifaxnovascotia at canada.com > > I purchased Persephon last February from Ron Searles(via ward yachts) and had her shipped to Nova Scotia from Toronto. Mr. Searles must have known she was my first boat because he has kind enough to type a 10 page owners manual on her systems and how to sail her. If anyone knows Ron please pass along my many thanks. > > Below is the first page of the Rons' manual that i found when i boarded Persephone the first time. > > Dear Mr. Murray, > > Congratulations on being the new owner of Persephone. She's a fine boat, and if you treat her well, i'm sure she will give you many years of great pleasure. > > First a bit about Persephone's history. I do hope you will not thinik of changing her name because she has a very proud past and is perhaps the best known and respected Alberg 30 in the Great Lakes. Persephone (ater the Greek Goddess who was married off to Hades, and later allowed to come back from the underworld for half a year each spring) is pronounced "Per se' fo nee", but sometimes affectionately "Per' see phone" by her jealous competitors. > > Persephone was first purchased by Charlie Bell Of Port Credit, Ontario in 1974. He was a keen Racer and avid cruiser and sole owner until his untimely death in 1990. (He died in a deabetic coma on the ski hill). I believe Charlie's spirit is still with the boat and helps her around the race course, or twoard her cruising destination when the wather gets bad. I purchased her in 1992 from his estate. > > Her racing heritage : Persephone won the Alberg Great Lakes Championship once with Charlie at the helm, and a further three times with me and my crew. She has beaten the Americans from Annapolis four times for the Alberg Syronelle Trophy - once with Charlie and three times with me and my crew. She has placed 3rd, 2nd(twice)and first in her division at the Younstown Level Regatta since 1993. She has won her Division Championship at our club ( a Fleet of 18 boats) the last three years running, and this past season had the honour of being Champion of Champions (in a fleet of about 50 boats). In all of this racing she was always treated with great care and never "pushed" but rather "encouraged" to do well. Reefing early not only saves strain on the boat, it helps her to go faster. Also, despite her heavy weather design, she always did particularly will in light air. > > Cruising - Persephone has cruised throughout Lake Ontario and Georgian bay with Charlie and his gang. I have left Charlie's last log book aboard, as it was there when i found her. You may find this interesting reading. I never had the opportunity to sail Persephone on Georgian Bay, but i single-handed her to the Thousand Islands and back every summer since 1992. I think you will find her well suited to short-handed sailing. > > Persephone has never seen salt water, and i'm sure she is looking forward to her new adventure. Bon Voyage! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > p.s. i entered Persephone in two races this past summer and she placed first each time. > > joe murray > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 > percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden > fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. > Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaggart at sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 20:10:55 2000 From: chaggart at sympatico.ca (Charles Haggart) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:10:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] #560 Persephone In-Reply-To: <948941953.6866@onelist.com> Message-ID: <000401bf687c$827fa4e0$9590fea9@black-point> From: "Charles Haggart" You have a fine boat there. Persephone was one of the boats I planned to look at. As it was I bought my A30 "Trillium III # 150" in Feb. 1999. Where in N.S. are you? I live in Toronto but I am from New Glasgow originally. Charles Haggart --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 948946255.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 08:52:37 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <3891C955.D2133B35@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass A30 people, It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but rather a PC industry technical guy. Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm --Dan S. dans at stmktg.com "Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949078357.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:46:57 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:46:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0. If you don't like AOL 5.0, if it conflicts with your other software, then don't use it -- but don't trouble us with offtopic opinions about a piece of computer software. I'm too busy mindsailing off to Newfoundland and environs in my armchair to be bothered with "PC industry technical stuff." Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York In a message dated 1/28/00 12:00:28 PM, dans at stmktg.com writes: >From: Dan Sternglass > >A30 people, > >It has come to my attention that upgrading Windows PCs to AOL 5 can >cause serious problems on systems that also use connections other than >AOL's "dial up." In essence, this upgrade disables other internet >services and applications like MS-Outlook that use the internet >services. You may want to avoid this "upgrade." I'm not an AOL user, but >rather a PC industry technical guy. > >Better to spend your time sailing or working on the boat rather than >trying to undo hidden damage to Windows! > >http://www.winmag.com/columns/explorer/2000/02.htm > >--Dan S. >dans at stmktg.com >"Watcher of the Skies" #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081617.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:52:31 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:52:31 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949081951.0 From dans at stmktg.com Fri Jan 28 09:57:14 2000 From: dans at stmktg.com (Dan Sternglass) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:14 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" References: <46.ef8688.25c33011@aol.com> Message-ID: <3891D87A.5EC1A0E2@stmktg.com> From: Dan Sternglass SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > From: SandersM at aol.com > > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort > of message? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984, > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0... Sanders, I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a MAC user. My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem. Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy software gets out, and this is such a case. Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list with any further comments related to this. --Dan Sternglass dans at stmktg.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082234.0 From SandersM at aol.com Fri Jan 28 10:00:58 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:00:58 EST Subject: [alberg30] Lofting lines, cont'd Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com I finally found a copy of "Choice Yacht Designs" last night by Richard Henderson which, as promised, has a reduced set of lofting lines for the A30. I'm not sure how well they will enlarge, but I'll give it a shot. If it works, I'll try to scan the lines and send them to George Dinwiddie for uploading onto the A30 web site. The book, by the way, is wonderful. It has drawings and photographs for 30 vessels, most of which are glorious boats like the Hinckley B40 and Pilot 35, the Owens 40 cutter and the Nevins 40 (both knock-offs of FINISTERRE), and the New York 32. It was nice to see the A30 among such august company! Stay tuned. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Save 50 percent at MotherNature.com. See site for details Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949082458.0 From blancs at us.net Fri Jan 28 11:41:51 2000 From: blancs at us.net (blancs at us.net) Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:41:51 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] May want to avoid AOL 5 "upgrade" Message-ID: <20000128194151.7656.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> From: blancs at us.net As a former Mac, now PC user (I had to for work), I think he was just rubbing it in. Kevin Blanc Terrapin #254 On Fri, 28 January 2000, Dan Sternglass wrote: > > > From: > Dan Sternglass >

> > SandersM at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > From: SandersM at aol.com
> >
> > I don't mean to sound contentious, but is this really the place for this sort
> > of message?? I have been an AOL user since 1991, and a Mac user since 1984,
> > and I'm very very happy with my Mac and AOL 5.0...
>
> Sanders,
>
> I'm glad that you are a satisfied AOL user; you are fortunate to be a
> MAC user.
>
> My only intent is to help PC/Windows users to avoid a known problem.
> Particularly for Windows users who are -not- highly technical, this
> warniong can save them a **lot** of trouble. Another A-30 guy, actually
> quite knowledgeable about PC networking, just wrote me that he had to
> pay for a consultant for 5 hours at $150/hr to fix his office network
> after he tried the AOL 5 Windows upgrade. I'm only trying to save some
> fellow sailors and internet users some grief. It does happen that buggy
> software gets out, and this is such a case.
>
> Since, strictly speaking this is "off topic," I won't clutter the list
> with any further comments related to this.
>
> --Dan Sternglass
> dans at stmktg.com
> > >
> > >
> >
Please click above to support our sponsor
>
> > > >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949088511.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:48:08 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] dingy gunnel guard References: <000c01bf644e$374ec8c0$388c6bd8@palberg30> Message-ID: <017c01bf6a05$729aedc0$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" How about 3 strand nylon line snaked inside clear vinyl tubing, then screwed/bolted to the dingy's gunwale? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Fri Jan 28 18:55:29 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: <3888B428.7CF8F244@stmktg.com> Message-ID: <017d01bf6a05$736d8000$8e6df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have replaced the wood strips on my '67 boat (no liner). the nuts are accessible from the inside of the boat- either in the pull downs (cabin) or the sail lockers (cockpit). In other words, the bolts holding the genoa track are the same ones attaching the deck to the hull. Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949114529.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 21:45:49 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:45:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com Michael, I have the same kind of boat, # 251, and I have to do the same job. I've been reading about the toe rail poping out of shape when the bolts are removed. Did you have this problem, and if so, how do I go about solving it??? I could use some advice, thanks. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949124749.0 From addvalue at zeuter.com Fri Jan 28 23:16:53 2000 From: addvalue at zeuter.com (Marianne King-Wilson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:16:53 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com References: Message-ID: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> From: Marianne King-Wilson Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying to find for years. Many thanks for sharing this! Marianne King-Wilson Windward #369 SandersM at aol.com wrote: > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) --- Parry Sound, in the heart of Georgian Bay's 30,000 Islands-- the big-water home of championship sailing races. http://www.SailParrySound.on.ca tells the story. Visit our windy, pristine waters for Sail Parry Sound's Shark Class World Championship August 19-25, 2000 AND--the bid is in for Toronto Olympic Yachting events in 2008! Stressed out? Need a break? Visit this quiet, idyllic retreat at http://www.zeuter.com/~addvalue/ Some openings still available for summer 2000. Book now, for 15% reduction. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949130213.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sat Jan 29 06:18:33 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:33 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <3892F6B9.213ADF6C@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949155513.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 06:56:27 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/28/00 12:53:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << Thank you, Lee, for your recommendation of N by E -- what a pleasant surprise of a book! I checked it out of the library and got it home; once I opened it I realized that I would want a volume of my own -- it's a keeper. I tried the Strand here in Manhattan but they were out, so I went online to www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) and found no fewer than 44 copies there. Prices ranged from $6 for a "reading copy" with waterstains to several hundred dollars for mint first editions, with most running in the $10-$20 range. Again, many thanks! Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York >> Hi Sanders, So glad you liked 'N by E' !!!! I first found that book in the Strand about 1990 or so. My first copy was a 6.00, 1929 first edition, water stained, sun bleached spine, with some coffee cup rings on some of the pages, and when I opened it, I was hit with that sweet, old book aroma!! A penciled poem-inscription on the first page reveals it was a christmas present to the first owner, from one of his crew, who I assume was a girlfriend or a wife. This copy is priceless to me!!!! At that point,Rona and I were making the transition from racing our Snipe like maniacs, to the cruising lifestyle. We had already bought our Alberg 22, and I had already read about two french canadians who had sailed their Alberg22 to victory in a transatlantic race. My inner wheels were turning, though professionaly, I knew it would be years before I could get enough time off to do any serious voyaging, and that was frustrating. Reading that book was my great escape that year! I had seen 'N by E's spine as I browsed the Strand, which was a couple of times each month back then, but previously I had not even picked it up, because I was only reading racing books back then. But, once I sampled it, as I said, I couldn't put it down. I've reread parts countless times since!! I've read other books by Rockwell Kent since, looking for a repeat of that first experience, but 'N by E' is the best of the lot. The others are good, but they do not excite the interest the same. 'Voyaging' is an earlier book about a trip he takes to South America, and an attempt to round the Horn. Another book is about a year spent in Alaska. He was a lucky guy. He was born into an old industrial robber baron family, so money was no problem. He was a talented artist, so he could act as eccentricaly as he liked! He went off on self made adventures, and wrote about them. Other contemporarie's accounts of him are not very flattering- apparently he was a bit of a 'cad', to use the language of his day. He'd borrow money and not return it, he was divorced three times, and his selfishness was cited as the usual cause for things not working out, etc, etc. After he published 'N by E', the parents of 'Sam', the kid who owned "Direction", were so incensed by Kent's version of the story, that they published their own vanity press version of the story to clear their sons name! Apparently, shortly after their return from Greenland, Sam was tragicaly killed in a car accident, and sam's parents asked Rockwell Kent not to publish his book. Being the cad that he was, he did as he pleased, and in this case, I'm glad he did the selfish thing!!! So, when are you setting out for the Straits of Belle Isle? :) Lee Stargazer #255 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949157787.0 From A30240 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:13:28 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:13:28 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <43.48f9d0.25c4a3e8@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com When I pulled the bolts on Isa Lei #240 I had no problem with the rail popping or the hull deck seperating. The biggest problem I had was getting the bolts out. They had more curves than Marylin Monroe. I had to use a "brace and bit" with a screw driver blade to get the torque. I would not punch them out, but rely on big screw drivers and vice grips to twist them out. Plan on replacing at least half of them. Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949176808.0 From zira at mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 21:31:05 2000 From: zira at mindspring.com (David Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: <3893CC99.5159C7C6@mindspring.com> From: David Swanson All - I am replacing the depth sounder in Strayaway Child #229. I have looked at several models with in-hull transducers. My current sounder uses a transducer mounted on the port side, under the settee just aft of the head. Two questions for anyone who has done this: 1. Some models state that they only work with hull thicknesses of 3/4 " or less. Is this a reasonable expectation in this area of the hull? 2. Most must be mounted relatively flat (parallel to the bottom). How do you accomplish this? Build up a pad of epoxy? Would I be better off to get a regular transducer & mount in a water box? I rarely sail in more than 25 feet of water, 10 to 15 most of the time so absolute range is not an issue. Thanks in advance. dls Strayaway Child Alberg 30 #229 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949210265.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:26:27 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:26:27 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3896C828@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. I missed the early appt with another 29.9 owner, as surprise, the same son that kept me away from Kemah last week, found this was the last sat. to sign up for Little League(sr division) and tryout. I got him signed up )150.00. But turns out the tryouts were at noon, alas, the literature on the recorder said 9. He missed that but heck: They know him anyway and it doesn't make much difference who drafts him. Damned little league coaches are baby sitters anyway. I will coach him(8 years little league, 5 years select and semi-pro coaching and teaching experience. Back to the Alberg. My personal survey found further difficulties. The spreaders are shot (wood). The hatch cover (It is wood by the way with a fiber glass sheet glued across the top will have to be (who knows--laminate teak or mahogany on the surface? Jeez. The electronics were updated. The boat won't meet standard on the head. No macerator either. Former is a cheap fix. The boat has no moister in the hull or in the core. There appears to be no structural soft spots on the deck or cabin top. The mast was restepped and reinforce )has a stainless brace across the bulkhead...so it was damage and refiberglassed... then strengthen with 1/8" approximately, stainless steel support bolted across the top beneath the cabin. The engine looks good. A head holding tank has been built beneath the vberth forward. All of that looks in good condition. But no locking mech. and that has to be dealt with. The coaming board around the cockpit is pretty bad on one side as is the toe rail on the stern. The rest is all cosmetic but a lot of work. All wood work below is mahogany and all of it needs to be redone. Good things: two burner propane stove, oven, and a 110 small microwave. There is a force 10 alcohol heating stove which appears in perfect condition. The sails are a bit dirty but good (but I didn't see all the sails). A lot of condensation and mildew for'ard, but I suppose that is from being closed up and moist from the heat and recent cold rainy weather. I took my friend who has the 29.9. He showed me as well, a grampian 26 in great condition...a friends boat. His appraisal was very similar to mine. I explained what I found Buc to be on line which was gulf, poor condition around 8k. The owner is remote asking 14.9. With knowledge of the electrolisis problem with prop and shaft (probably worse) and if it does have this I suppose the rudder itself will need attention at for the metal attachments where glassed in the offering I should make goes along with the 5k or less value as recommended by a couple of the a30 OWNERS on the list. I am going to mull this over the week. Heck: It was in the 30s this morning at Galveston and No one was looking at boats in Texas but me. Had a fine seafood dinner at the clear lake seaway entrance with my older son, who grew bored with the whole day about an hour into it. My sailing acquaintence ended up with much the same profile for the boat. Still pending an offer and survey professionally btw. Obviously, when Hauled, If I buy her, I will want her out to do the bottom and electrolysis damage. And I am deliberating the whole thing at this point anyway. John and I went over the topside pretty well. We shall see where I end up and I was posting this for those who have provide guidance, suggestions and things for me to check. Again, thanks very much. More on this a30 later. BTW: I couldn't find the location of a plate which had the hull number on it. Where are they located on an Alberg? Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949199187.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:34 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:34 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D119@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200214.0 From dai at pdq.net Sat Jan 29 18:43:40 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:43:40 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alibris.com and books Message-ID: <3896D132@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I had two books by sterling Hayden for years. Wanderer and I cannot recall the other name. For whatever reason, I always enjoyed the old seaman in films and on Carson. I fear he and I are too, much alike in our appreciation of things that harm the body. If anyone in Houston let me know a used book store that has a decent selection? I have been traipsing around the west side and nothing. Half priced and other lesser known stores. It is just a tough job finding such books. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949200220.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:09:26 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:09:26 EST Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair Message-ID: <98.10fa7ca.25c50566@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com Thank you Jim, that answeres my question. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: alberg30.mim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:18:57 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:18:57 EST Subject: [alberg30] Depth Sounders Again Message-ID: From: Rap1208 at aol.com DLS, that is a good location for a depth sounder. My data Marine is in a a water box there. (actualy, mineral oil) and sealed with a wax plug. When Idriled a hole for the knotmeter on the starboard side, down in the bilge, I found it to be about 5/8" thick. I would espect the hull there to be no more than that, perhaps 1/2". My sounder reads to about 97-99 ft, after that I get a msg signal to indicate that the signal is missed. I only encounter that depth in Lake Huron, or MIchigan, and I know where I am when that happens. If you already have a hole, you may have to fill and rebuild it before you install the water box. My water box is a fiberglass tube, that is fitted and glassed against the hull. It is in a vertical position just behind the drawer, and is about a foot or slightly more below the waterline. so I have about a 1 foot "cushion" on the reading, nice to know when the 4' alarm goes off. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202337.0 From Rap1208 at aol.com Sat Jan 29 19:29:27 2000 From: Rap1208 at aol.com (Rap1208 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:29:27 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> From: Rap1208 at aol.com David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and pay the asking price, but no one has yet. If you want to sail, the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. Russ Pfeiffer --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949202967.0 From berube5 at home.com Sun Jan 30 03:53:55 2000 From: berube5 at home.com (berube5) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:53:55 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Seahoods again - info please References: <389293E5.28AA95C4@zeuter.com> Message-ID: <38942652.63C9B5B4@home.com> From: berube5 I have been reading with interest a recent thread concerning seahoods. It seemed as though several people had a Reid...(sp?) fellow construct a nice seahood for their Alberg 30 for around $250. I do not have an Alberg 30- but I would not be surprised if my Alberg designed Pearson Triton was similar enough in size that an A30 seahood might work. I would be interested in knowing a bit more information about this piece- approx measurements, perhaps if anyone had a picture of the seahood on a web site... and/or an e-mail address or phone number for the fellow who builds the piece. My rough measurements for a Triton seahood... (inside clearance of the seahood over the sliding main hatch) as follows: Width: 29", Overall length: 32", Height: 3", the actual seahood dimensions could be somewhat larger, shorter, etc. I am curious to see if we might be in the same ballpark. Hatch measurements: Width: 25-1/4", Overall length (including runners): 30", Height (at center): 2-7/8" (the main hatch is very nearly flat with little crown - 5/8" max) For me, building a seahood from scratch is certainly doable- however, like most of us "classic plastic" owners- I have plenty of other things to work on. If this idea were to work out- I know several other Triton owners who might be interested in seahoods as well. Thanks for your help. Dana Berube 1960 Pearson Triton #99 "JADE" Narragansett Bay, RI --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949233235.0 From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 06:30:00 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <13.a658fb.25c4599b@aol.com> Message-ID: <38944AE7.61F8D1E8@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949242600.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Sun Jan 30 06:52:22 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:22 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <3b.65de69.25c50a17@aol.com> Message-ID: <38945025.F4608B36@idirect.com> From: John Birch Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be it, look for another - A30. To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, oh oh. Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a coin or other metal tool. Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and make sure the core isn't frozen. Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. John Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > From: Rap1208 at aol.com > > David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The > absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker > will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and > pay the asking price, but no one has yet. > If you want to sail, > the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, > more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg > thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. > > Russ Pfeiffer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 07:26:42 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:42 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <4c.107f5e2.25c5b232@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/29/00 9:30:37 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << I went aboard her for about 3 hours today, and then spent time poking on a 30 cape Dory and Bristol 29.9, private owners. >> David, greetings. I do not know much about the CD30s, except that they are also an Alberg 30-foot design whose lines, to my eye, have been fattened to accommodate more cruising space below. The A30s were designed more as a one-design racing boat with cruising abilities, whereas the CD30 was built with an eye to maximizing interior volume at the expense (I believe) of fine sailing lines. But that is only my opinion, formed after looking at the CD30 moored next to my A30 last season. The Bristol 29.9 I know a good deal more about, as I used to own a Bristol 35.5. They are fine boats but to buy a 29.9 in serviceable condition, you'll easily spend more than twice what an A30 in comparable condition would cost. If you like the A30 and the 29.9 excited you, you might consider the older Bristol 29, which looks nearly identical to the A30 but which was designed by the 29.9's designer, Halsey Herreshoff. Halsey's Bristol 29 design is a very good one; my recollection is that the B29 has a sharper entry into the water and a longer waterline than the A30, and it shows in a faster PHRF rating. In fact, the Bristol 29's longer waterline makes her faster than her bigger brother, the Bristol 32. Bristol also made a Bristol 30, which was identical to the Bristol 29 except that Herreshoff redesigned the coach roof to eliminate the raised doghouse abaft of the mast step. Then, in the mid-1970s, Bristol came out with a more modern line of designs that are differentiated by the decimal-point names: 29.9, 31.1, 35.5, 41.1, etc. The newer Bristols (except the 29.9, a Herreshoff design), were from the pen of Ted Hood and Dieter Empacher, and they are great sailors, and exceedingly well-built, but also very expensive. The older Bristol 29/30s trade for about the same amount as do Alberg 30s. If you go shopping for older Bristols, pay particular attention to the foredecks and the hull/deck joints. I looked at four before settling on my A30; all had spongy foredecks and leaking hull/deck joints. Deck delamination is a real problem with the older Bristols, and you need to choose carefully when shopping for one. Delaminated decks are not fatal; they can be repaired in several ways, and it can be a DIY job if you have the time to do it; but the fix will take eiither a lot of your time or a lot of your money, and so it is a problem that you should watch out for and understand, if you're going to look for older Bristols. The Alberg's Hull ID plate is located below the companionway. Sanders McNew WILD ELF (# 297) Oyster Bay, New York --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949246002.0 From bzinser at nmu.edu Sun Jan 30 07:28:43 2000 From: bzinser at nmu.edu (Brian Zinser) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:43 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Message-ID: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> From: "Brian Zinser" Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show next weekend in Chicago? Brian Manana #134 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net Sun Jan 30 08:05:56 2000 From: fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net (greg vandenberg) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] References: <002c01bf6b36$b5ced3e0$24cf6ec6@BrianZinser> Message-ID: <38946161.62941E15@mailhost.kal.ameritech.net> From: greg vandenberg Yes... Friday > Brian Zinser wrote: > > From: "Brian Zinser" > > Are any Midwest A30 owners planning to attend the Strickly Sail show > next weekend in Chicago? > > Brian > Manana #134 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949248356.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 10:25:06 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:25:06 EST Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd Message-ID: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 9:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fashionguy at mailhost.kal.ameritech.net writes: << From: greg vandenberg Thanks you for this thread guys.... Its very cold and the winter is starting to seam endless. >> Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) oh, and I want his boat. When you see the photos, and read about her, you'll see what I mean! enjoy, Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949256706.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 15:24:31 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:24:31 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <3898A28E@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Well, You can compare designs, ie, alberg to other boats but Dieter Empacher (sp) sure did a fine job for Bristol. The 29.9 is interior volume wise about the size of the older 34. More than the 32. If I didn't mention it, there is a 30 also at the same dock which will go for sale soon but I can't get ahold of the owner. The Cape Dory is smaller 30 than the 29.9 but a very nice boat. At any rate: I found a Pearson 30 via the phone )saw her in the distance( and when I called back my friend told me that boat may go for next to nothing.... So the networking is expanding my visits bountifully. I very much like the 29.9. I cannot imagine the interior space of the 35.5 when comparing the 34. So it must be a great boat. Anyway: I am still deliberating on the Alberg. I think I am going to start out at 4500. and see what goes from there. No, it was not freezing--except to those who have lived in Texas all their lives. It is like Oriental at 48 degrees with a blustery wind. Texans go about in Parkas. Those new to Texas will be in a light Sweater or maybe a wool shirt over a shirt. I am at the heavy sweater stage having resided here for 9 years....Oh, well, okay, I am a sissy now but I did live in Wisconsin and at 8500 ft in Colorado West of Boulder. But the boat is sound from an amateur and a bit more experienced sailor and amat. buyer. ENOUGH to do to make it a pain but with the fixed spreader, good sails and extrusions otherwise, ready to at least sail. The Pearson may need a lot more work but for dimes and nickels maybe. Which allows me to purchase the Day Sailer(DS) for my son to race at Clear lake. Oh, well. dai >===== Original Message From alberg30 at onelist.com ===== >From: John Birch > >Oh Russ, I respectfully disagree, I would council he buy the boat he wants first >hand not a compromise with a Gramp 26. If this deal can't come together, so be >it, look for another - A30. > >To the purchaser, the decks were in good shape, not soft. Was the weather above >freezing to be sure you weren't walking on frozen waterlogged core? > >Waterlogged decks appear as stiff as the masonite decks until thaw time - then, >oh oh. > >Moisture meters are fair at best, the barefoot walk about on the deck, in >sustained above freezing temperatures along with the meter is the best way to >determine core condition along with selective percussion on suspect areas with a >coin or other metal tool. > >Don't rely on only one of the above techniques, use 'em all in conjunction and >make sure the core isn't frozen. > >Spreaders, in aluminium $300 CDN for airfoil ones. Cost of refit add 100% to >what ever number you estimate and you'll likely be over that budget by 30% in the >end. If not, buy a nice bottle of Perrier-Jouet to celebrate. > >Russ, thanks for the Alberg rating stuff. > >John > > > >Rap1208 at aol.com wrote: > >> From: Rap1208 at aol.com >> >> David, my guess of what you should offer has dropped about two grand. The >> absent owner must remember her in her glory days, not as she is. The broker >> will take as much as any one will pay......perhaps a fool will walk in and >> pay the asking price, but no one has yet. >> If you want to sail, >> the Granpian 26 is not a bad boat, if the price is right, and has, perhaps, >> more boom below than the Alberg. Buy her, sail her, while you find an Alberg >> thats fits you better. It sounds as If you are busy enough already. >> >> Russ Pfeiffer >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent >> Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949274671.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Sun Jan 30 18:14:02 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:14:02 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] N by E, cont'd References: <99.a37726.25c5dc02@aol.com> Message-ID: <3894EFEA.198500BB@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Read "South - The Endurance Expedition" by Ernest Shackleton. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > > Cold? You think this is cold??? After you read NbyE, read Vito Dumas 'Alone > Through the Roaring Forties', about his 1943 circumnavigation in his Lehg ll. > Then you'll understand cold!!!! Cold? You can't handle the cold!!!!! :) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949284842.0 From dai at pdq.net Sun Jan 30 19:32:10 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:32:10 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" Sanders: Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... We will see. The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 from my home. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949289530.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:44:23 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:23 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <54.f018c4.25c67b37@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/30/00 10:35:17 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: << Oh: Also, the other sailor hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for >> David, greetings. The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot better for the money. If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what is called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken version of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't hang off of the transom. They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But if you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's tired and in need of a good home. If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site devoted to them which you can view at this URL: http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred that makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern called a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket cruiser that is easy on the eyes. Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949297463.0 From SandersM at aol.com Sun Jan 30 22:03:39 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:03:39 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com David, greetings. After posting my last email, I browsed the usual online sources and found a Weekender on the market for only $3,900 list ... on Martha's Vineyard! If you want to see the listing, which includes a photo of the vessel ashore in slings, go to this URL: http://www.vineyard.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mvmb/data.cgi/27bristol If you need delivery crew, send me your terms. :-) Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949298619.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 03:00:56 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:00:56 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949316456.0 From gewhite at crosslink.net Sun Jan 30 23:06:34 2000 From: gewhite at crosslink.net (Gordon White) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:06:34 +0000 Subject: [alberg30] sea hood References: <949306773.23006@onelist.com> Message-ID: <3895347A.8C6A7E44@crosslink.net> From: Gordon White P. Read Beigel Jr., (410) 647-9140, home, (410) 647-6997, office. Does beautiful work but in my case, very slowly. As George says, after you read Endurance you will not need air conditioning. It will make you feel cold for months. A-275 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949302394.0 From lalondegc at videotron.ca Mon Jan 31 03:40:24 2000 From: lalondegc at videotron.ca (Guy Lalonde) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:24 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <38992491@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <001101bf6bdf$f6736560$0200a8c0@JOSETTE> From: Guy Lalonde Up around here the Grampians aren't known as a very good boat. Both from a quality and sturdiness perspective. My 2 cents. Guy Cyrena #466 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > Sanders: > > Btw: You are correct about the cd30. But I don't believe she is a > poor sailing vessel ntl. But the owners don't want to let them > go or if at all, at more than listed bristol price. The 29.9 can > be had for 25k. But I cannot spend that til 2 or 3 years down the > line. My first step is intermediate. I like working on stuff so > the work is not an issue....value to get a boat that sails is... > > We will see. > > The grampian may indeed be a choice. She is well cared for, a sound > seaworthy vessel. Outside of the community no one would think twice > about a Grampian. A good boat for a 26. Oh: Also, the other sailor > hot for the 29.9 owns a b24 which he wants 5k for...haven't looked > her over as she lies in palacios, 100 miles south of Kemah and 150 > from my home. > > dai > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949318824.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:00:29 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E719@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" And, in my experience, abebooks is much cheaper than albiris. Try some comparison shopping! Good tip, George. -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:gdinwiddie at min.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:19 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: [alberg30] Another used book source From: George Dinwiddie Another used book source is Advanced Book Exchange http://www.abebooks.com/ They have a search engine that searches a large number of used book dealers. You buy directly from the individual dealers. - George Marianne King-Wilson wrote: > > From: Marianne King-Wilson > > Sanders, thank you for the lead about Alibris.com. Tested them with some pretty > esoteric titles, and they had everything. I bought three books I have been trying > to find for years. > > Many thanks for sharing this! > > Marianne King-Wilson > Windward #369 > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.Alibris.com (an online source for used and out-of-print books) > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327229.0 From Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov Mon Jan 31 06:08:08 2000 From: Thomas.Forhan at mail.house.gov (Forhan, Thomas) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <6BAA4FF604A4D2119AD10008C7A4EFBB0292E732@hrm06.house.gov> From: "Forhan, Thomas" Take a look at the Cape Dory 25 (the original one, outboard powered). Nice lines, nice cockpit, rudinmentary interior, and good construction. Tom F. -----Original Message----- From: RABBIT649 at aol.com [mailto:RABBIT649 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:01 AM To: alberg30 at onelist.com Subject: Re: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Dear Sanders, Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. Paul Cicchetti #23 Ashwagh rabbit649 at AOL.com In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: > David, greetings. > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > better for the money. > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and affordable, > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > is > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > version > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. The > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short coachroof; > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > hang > off of the transom. > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > if > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere around > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if she's > > tired and in need of a good home. > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web site > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > that > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find that > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. The > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > called > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern pocket > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949327688.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 06:54:30 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:30 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his input. The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial considerations when the younger son enters college. The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have been doing. David Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949330470.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 07:09:19 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:09:19 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked .... If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted online at http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ id=1572&page=broker Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at http://www.classic-boats.com/ Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job now. Sanders. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949331359.0 From gord at transatmarine.com Mon Jan 31 07:46:30 2000 From: gord at transatmarine.com (Gord Laco) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review References: <389A2EB0@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <000901bf6c02$59ddb660$0400a8c0@bconnex.net> From: "Gord Laco" Re: Grampian 26 The "Grump", as they're known here in Canada, is certainly not beautifull,, and yes, some of them are not aging very gracefully, but they are probably the best of an ugly duckling tribe. Gord A30 #426 Surprise ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: RE: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review > From: "dai at pdq.net" > > I took a look at the b27 site. It is possible also. I have found a Pearson > 30 locally and will check her out next weekend. The A30 I am mulling over. > > Intentionally, I did not go back to see the broker after Saturday. I want to > mull over all the work, and the condition of the boat without having his > input. > > The Grampian is a decent day cruiser and a stable boat. I would rather have > her than a hunter or Catalina of similar size. But that is not what I am > looking for. A 30 which can sail offshore points south and east, the out > islands and build to an ocean capable boat. Finances and two sons who are > nearing college require steady hand and no emotion about what I need to > accomplish for myself over the next 2 years. The boat must be something I > can sail, but also build into a cruiser over time rather than commit to > a large loan payment and possibly have to abrogate the goal due to financial > considerations when the younger son enters college. > > The consumation of the 30 is what I am aiming at. I put it off for years. > Suffered a heart attack and must do this for myself....Small boats are fun > but the tradition and strength of a stiff 30 footer is what I am looking for. > > If I sometimes wander, it is due to the many boats and much reading I have > been doing. > > David > > Regards, > > David Bell - dai at pdq.net > > The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, > lawyers about towns, good billiard players and > sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. > War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first > rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must > all be killed or employed by us before we can hope > for peace. > > General W. T. Sherman > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949333590.0 From bnewman at netcom.ca Mon Jan 31 07:59:35 2000 From: bnewman at netcom.ca (Bill Newman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:35 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess Message-ID: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> From: Bill Newman Russ do you know the author's name of Princess? Bill Newman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949334375.0 From Sunstone at idirect.com Mon Jan 31 08:11:46 2000 From: Sunstone at idirect.com (John Birch) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> From: John Birch Sanders Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I believe. Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to down size. Or an Alberg 22? John SandersM at aol.com wrote: > From: SandersM at aol.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com writes: > > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? > > Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time thinking about just the > sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought my A30, so I have no > lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away from A30s, we can take > the discussion off-list if others find it objectionable. But since you asked > .... > > If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of a wooden boat -- and > it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this range -- then there > are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore the wooden boat > market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, Page & Payne brokerage > up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is called a Laurinkoster, a > 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray (York, ME) has one > listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking photograph is posted > online at > > http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ > id=1572&page=broker > > Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by Nat Herreshoff. It's a > 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. The originals were > built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. For a while in the > early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's Vineyard by a place > called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats combined the beauty of > wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass boat. Jimmy Buffett > owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary Hoyt has tried to > reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. They are pretty, but > I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the construction. > > Another very pretty boat in this class is called a Sakonnet 23, built by Edey > & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed the Stone Horse in > glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's another canoe-stern > sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws less than 2 feet with > the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know if there are any in > brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to start. You can see > the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: > > http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html > > Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best for last. There is > a French builder of several traditional French boats in this range that are > just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and a 26-footer with a > small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at > > http://www.classic-boats.com/ > > Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a query as to the asking > price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." > > Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I apologize for doing so > for the third time in three days. I should probably get back to my day job > now. > > Sanders. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent > Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:23:48 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:23:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Russ Pfieffer Re: Princess References: <3895B165.46CCF769@netcom.ca> Message-ID: <002a01bf6c10$2b284840$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I have a copy of Princess-so here is a rundown of all the stuff needed to find a copy: Princess New York-Key Biscayne; by Joe Richards McKay publishing copyright 1956, 1973 previously published under the title Princess-New York Book two is entitled Key Biscayne Library of Congress # 72-95162 Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949339428.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:38:40 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:40 EST Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey George, There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive the one I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I remember correctly. In any case, what a story, huh? What those guys put up with. Over the ice, through the storms in that canvas covered whale boat! And for Shackelton to end the journey with a mountain climb across a frozen south pacific island to get to the whaling station, to reach civilization after 2 years!!! Do you remember, a couple of years ago a professional mountain climbing group set out to reproduce his trek across that island, and when done, they could not beleive that Shackleton had accomplished the same feat, with just one other man along, and no mountaineering equipment or suitable clothing. He must have been an exceptional human being. And it was just about that time I was teaching myself celestial navigation, so woolsey, the navigator, interested me no small amount. Amazing how he kept the chronomoters inside his clothes to protect them. What would we do if our almanac began to fall apart from exposure like his did? Puts it all in perspective. Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! Fun to share this with you!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949340320.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 09:55:33 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:55:33 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: From: FINNUS505 at aol.com Hey Sanders, David, Dave, I have been following your quest, and found the opinions on all these classic plastics interesting. I've got to agree with Sanders, that in this category, you must consider the Bristol 27. I looked at a few over the years, and have spoken to sailors who owned them, and they are by all accounts execellent boats for their size, and the price you can get them for these days. another good one is the early 60's tartan 27. You can find going concerns of both of these boats for 5-6 grand, and spend more for updated boats, less for ones that need more work, or course. But, once you are spending more, then you might as well buy the Alberg 30, which is a better boat, in terms of better sailing, and more room below. Do they sell Soundings in Texas? that is the one best place to look at used boats, and see what is available and what people are asking for them. The 26 foot Arial is another good boat, but try as I have, I cannot get passed her big dog house, and straight sheer. Ugly. But they are extrememly well built, good sailors, and good accomodation for their size. My opinion on the Pearson 30 or Grampian-good sailing boats, nice accomodations, the Pearson 30 I know is very sturdy, I don't know much about the structure of Grampians......but ......so ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. If you want to really know how I feel, I'll tell you off the list. (they are ugly!) :) Have fun looking, make sure you are not boatless come spring!!! Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341333.0 From mgrosh at shore.intercom.net Mon Jan 31 09:50:00 2000 From: mgrosh at shore.intercom.net (Michael Grosh) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:50:00 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Questions on toe rail and genoa track repair References: Message-ID: <004f01bf6c13$f0576120$c36df0d8@intercom.net> From: "Michael Grosh" I didn't have the problem of the rail bowing when the bolts were removed-but I didn't push the issue, either;I removed only the bolts necessary to do the job and didn't rebed under the toerail i.e. perhaps the original bedding kept everything in line. Anything is possible, of course, but it is difficult to see how the three different elements (hull, deck, toerail) could get so far out of line that the 1/4" bolts couldn't be driven back home. Mine were readily removed/replaced with a 3/8"drill with slotted head screwdriver in the chuck Michael #220 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341000.0 From FINNUS505 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 10:04:47 2000 From: FINNUS505 at aol.com (FINNUS505 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <79.1121e99.25c728bf@aol.com> From: FINNUS505 at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 10:11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, SandersM at aol.com writes: << > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? >> Hey Paul, Sanders, If we are allowing wooden boats to enter our imaginations, then one must consider the Tumlaren that Dutch Wharf in Conn. has been advertising for a while. I think they are asking about 11 grand for this double ended, beauty. they are about 30 feet overall, and wonderful sailors by all accounts. And they are pretty. Lee --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949341887.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:02:16 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:16 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <19.e525d2.25c73638@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com Sanders, Lee, Thomas, blancs, all...Thanks for your input on this and anyone else who has a thought. I don't think it's off-list, since it concerns hanging onto what we all love about the Alberg 30 as time and circumstances force us to downsize. Paul #23 Ashwagh --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949345336.0 From dai at pdq.net Mon Jan 31 13:12:32 2000 From: dai at pdq.net (dai at pdq.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:12:32 -0600 Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <389C1CF7@mail.pdq.net> From: "dai at pdq.net" YEah, the Grampians are ugly. The 26 is better than thw 23 which I have sailed. But they are sturdy boats. It may end up that way. Boattrader online has soundings search in it so I now use it on line as opposed to the paper product. The mag. part of soundings is just not extensive enough to warrent purchase. I have found Good Old Boat, WOoden boat, Multihulls and Latitudes and Attitudes to be good. Back to it: A 26 is fine. If I can get the 30 I will. Hence all the legwork. This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. THe Pearson list is having a flame war right now. dai Regards, David Bell - dai at pdq.net The young bloods of the South; sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard players and sportsmen, men who never did any work never will. War suits them.. They are splendid riders, first rate shots and utterly reckless. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. General W. T. Sherman --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949353152.0 From SandersM at aol.com Mon Jan 31 13:37:08 2000 From: SandersM at aol.com (SandersM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:37:08 EST Subject: [alberg30] Alberg 30, Texas review Message-ID: <7a.105b912.25c75a84@aol.com> From: SandersM at aol.com In a message dated 1/31/00 4:17:59 PM, dai at pdq.net writes: >This group has been marvelous as has those on the Bristol list. Ah, the Bristol list! I was a former subscriber of that list, and they are a good bunch. If you have reason to correspond with Hope Wright (SailorLI at aol.com), the lucky owner of a Bristol 27 Weekender, please give her my regards. Sanders McNew --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949354628.0 From A30240 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 16:03:49 2000 From: A30240 at aol.com (A30240 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:03:49 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser Message-ID: <86.86630f.25c77ce5@aol.com> From: A30240 at aol.com I will second this recommendation. Also a nice sea boat that will give you the asthetic appeal of the Alberg, even if Carl did not design it. (looks like a 5/6 scale model) Jim Davis Isa Lei 240 --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949363429.0 From gdinwiddie at min.net Mon Jan 31 16:46:05 2000 From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:46:05 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <38962CCD.C7ED377@min.net> From: George Dinwiddie Lee, The version I read was Shakleton's own account. I've also got a shorter account written by F.A. Worsley, the captain of the Endurance, but I've not read that one yet. Extraordinary stuff, indeed. To do all that on short rations in such cold conditions, too. It's amazing. - George FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > [snip] > Yes, a great tale. I think the version you read must have been good, too, or > else you wouldn't list it here. Good reading!!!!!!! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949365965.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 17:21:10 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:21:10 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: Message-ID: <3895F07C.F5354B69@one.net> From: Scott Wallace Paul and company, I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the heels of the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed with friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake Michigan, I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and have sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big water under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out of Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except for a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They always gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra always felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously and find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did enjoy an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse nasty high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I would love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour distance from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is low to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to use for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the largest keelboat class in America! The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer for our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! Scott Wallace Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > Dear Sanders, > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you for > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit and > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the site > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My knees > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > Paul Cicchetti > #23 Ashwagh > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > David, greetings. > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction and > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > better for the money. > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > affordable, > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find what > > is > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg design. > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > version > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > The > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > coachroof; > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate more > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous classic > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered by > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn't > > hang > > off of the transom. > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. But > > if > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > around > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > she's > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > site > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a thoroughbred > > that > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > that > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > The > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > called > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > pocket > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > Sanders > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949368070.0 From tristan at one.net Mon Jan 31 18:35:48 2000 From: tristan at one.net (Scott Wallace) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:35:48 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser References: <3895B440.42B4DB0E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <38960217.3D21B715@one.net> From: Scott Wallace John, I have a Bluenose 24, it is indeed designed by William Roue, who designed the world champion schooner, Bluenose, which sank off of Haiti in 1946 after the mighty champion of Canada was sold off after Captain Angus Walters couldn't afford to keep her anymore! The Bluenose 24 was designed as a daysailer club racer for the Chester Yacht Club of Chester, Nova Scotia, on the South Shore. George McVay, father of William McVay of the Victoria 18 fame, built the fiberglass Bluenose sloops on a mold made off of one of the best wooden Bluenose champion racers! McVay built these boats in Mahone Bay, once a thriving boat building center South of Halifax. Many great barkentines, barks and brigantines as well as a zillion schooners were all made here. McVay was probably the last commercial builder there. I have a Bluenose 24, HELLDIVER, for sale...it is in Mentor, Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie...they are a beautful boat and one that Alberg would have certainly approved! It has a full keel with mild cutaway, spoon bow upswept and a beautiful stern that finishes out the lines. It is a teal blue gelcoat, with white cabin top and molded tan decks...the original wooden ones were an open daysailer while the McVay versions provide a little cuddy cabin big enough to camp two out for sleep, hold a porty potty and cooler and the sails! It has bronze ports and teak trim with louvered doors to the cuddy cabin. It also has a British seagull motor and an old trailer with a huge relatively new wooden cradle atop! Scott Wallace John Birch wrote: > From: John Birch > > Sanders > > Another pretty classic is the Bluenose Class, cuddy cabin, > narrow beam, full keel sloop with spoon bow and counter > stern. At 23' LOA, large cockpit, daysailer and > overnighter about $4000 CDN for a used model, made at > Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada to a design by Roue I > believe. > > Worth a look if you are an Alberg Lover but looking to > down size. Or an Alberg 22? > > John > > SandersM at aol.com wrote: > >> From: SandersM at aol.com >> >> In a message dated 1/31/00 6:02:11 AM, RABBIT649 at aol.com >> writes: >> >> > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' >> with a big cockpit >> >and little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing >> a big bay? >> >> Oh gosh, that depends. I spent an awful lot of time >> thinking about just the >> sort of boat you're looking for before before I bought >> my A30, so I have no >> lack of ideas on the subject. Since it takes us away >> from A30s, we can take >> the discussion off-list if others find it >> objectionable. But since you asked >> .... >> >> If you're willing to shoulder the added cost and work of >> a wooden boat -- and >> it's not monumental when you get down to boats in this >> range -- then there >> are a vast array of options. Two easy ways to explore >> the wooden boat >> market: (1) WoodenBoat magazine, and (2) the Cannell, >> Page & Payne brokerage >> up in Camden, Maine. One object of my boatlust is >> called a Laurinkoster, a >> 28-foot double-ended sloop from Sweden. Gray & Gray >> (York, ME) has one >> listed at $24k, and the listing and a drool-provoking >> photograph is posted >> online at >> >> http://ww >> 2.yachtworld.com/boats/view_result.cgi?boat_id=29083&units=&listing_ >> >> id=1572&page=broker >> >> Another beauty is the Alerion-class sloop designed by >> Nat Herreshoff. It's a >> 26-footer with a small cuddy cabin, very sweet lines. >> The originals were >> built in wood and gaff-rigged, but forget about them. >> For a while in the >> early 1980s, they were built cold-molded out on Martha's >> Vineyard by a place >> called Sanford Boats with a masthead rig; the boats >> combined the beauty of >> wood with the maintenance characteristics of a glass >> boat. Jimmy Buffett >> owned one, called Savannah Jane. More recently, Gary >> Hoyt has tried to >> reproduce the design in fibreglass, with mixed success. >> They are pretty, but >> I've heard that Tillotson-Pearson has skimped on the >> construction. >> >> Another very pretty boat in this class is called a >> Sakonnet 23, built by Edey >> & Duff, the smae people who built the Crockett-designed >> the Stone Horse in >> glass. The Sakonnet is currently in production; it's >> another canoe-stern >> sloop, no cabin, strictly a daysailor/gunkholer, draws >> less than 2 feet with >> the board up, very pretty, but not cheap. I don't know >> if there are any in >> brokerage yet, but Edey & Duff would be a good place to >> start. You can see >> the boat and the usual propaganda at this URL: >> >> http://www.by-the-sea.com/edey&duff/edsakon.html >> >> Okay, now, if money's not an object, I've saved the best >> for last. There is >> a French builder of several traditional French boats in >> this range that are >> just exquisite: A 23-foot daysailor called Tofinou, and >> a 26-footer with a >> small cabin called Tadorne. You can see them at >> >> http://www.classic-boats.com/ >> >> Price? As J.P. Morgan once replied in response to a >> query as to the asking >> price of his yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't >> afford it." >> >> Okay, I could run on forever on this subject, and I >> apologize for doing so >> for the third time in three days. I should probably get >> back to my day job >> now. >> >> Sanders. >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >> ---------------------------- >> >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as >> 2.9 percent >> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW. >> Click Here >> >> ---------------- >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > [ONElist Sponsor] > Please click above to support our sponsor > ----------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372548.0 From sutherlandt at prodigy.net Mon Jan 31 18:41:56 2000 From: sutherlandt at prodigy.net (Tom Sutherland) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: [alberg30] Good winter reading; Shackleton References: Message-ID: <389647CB.2314A788@prodigy.net> From: Tom Sutherland For what it is worth "Endurance" the story of Shackelton's expedition is also available on tape. A friend of mine had it with him on an auto trip we took a few months ago and I will tell you .... It was riveting ! Tom S A30 #412 FINNUS505 at aol.com wrote: > From: FINNUS505 at aol.com > > Hey George, > There are several books about that Shackleton expedition. I beleive > the one > I read a couple of years ago was simply titled "Endurance", if I > remember > correctly. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949372916.0 From RABBIT649 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 23:31:47 2000 From: RABBIT649 at aol.com (RABBIT649 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:31:47 EST Subject: [alberg30] small traditional day cruiser--Carl Alberg's personal boat? Message-ID: <55.190af19.25c7e5e3@aol.com> From: RABBIT649 at aol.com So, Alberg chose the Commander as his personal boat, huh? I knew I was onto something when I saw the one that I saw. My only quibble with it was that the self bailing cockpit on that Commander was a little shallow for legroom and sitting height, a necessary side effect of a hull much smaller than an Alberg 30's. Can Sanders or anyone whose seen both tell me which has the deeper (better?) cockpit, the Commander or the Bristol 27 Weekender to which it seems most closely compares? Thanks. Regards, Paul #23 Ashwagh In a message dated 1/31/00 8:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, tristan at one.net writes: > From: Scott Wallace > > Paul and company, > > I sail a 1963 Pearson Electra, a cruising version of the popular Ensign > daysailer...The Electra was Pearson's second sailboat to market, on the > heels of > the Triton (28') then the Electra (22'6") then Ariel (25'6")...We sailed our > little Electra on Lake Erie for the first year we owned her. We had crewed > with > friends from Milwaukee aboard their 1926 Alden wooden schooner on Lake > Michigan, > I have sailed a 50' wooden schooner off of Ocracoke Island in the Sound and > have > sailed Tanzer 26's on Lake Huron in Ontario...but OUR first vessel on big > water > under our command was our Electra. We sailed from Spring through Fall out > of > Mentor on the Lake about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Quite often during > excellent sailing weather we were the only sailboat out we could see except > for > a Swede 55 and a Pearson 35 out of the Mentor Harbor Yacht Club. They > always > gave us a thumbs up when they saw our trusty little Alberg designed Electra > making her way through six footers along with the big boys. Our Electra > always > felt safe, has a self bailing cockpit and bridge deck (good to avoid any > suprises in the cockpit from big waves). We enjoy our Electra tremendously > and > find her great for daysailing, a little cramped for overnighting...we did > enjoy > an early Spring and late Fall nightover...it was nice, snug and warm...tried > sleeping aboard thrice during the hot Ohio summer months and got no sleep > between the incessant rattling of the halyards and the worse, far worse > nasty > high pitched whine of attack mosquitos! Carl Alberg chose the daysailing > version of the Ariel, the Commander, as his own personal sailing vessel. He > sailed out of the Boston Yacht Club in his home town of Marblehead, > Massachusetts. He just loved his Commander! As badly as my wife and I > would > love an Alberg 30, our budget and finances as well as four to six hour > distance > from Lake Erie preclude us owning anything larger than the Electra. It is > low > to the water and fun to sail! Ted Turner still keeps a couple of Ensigns to > use > for his "sports car" boats. He enjoys the low slung great handling of the > largest keelboat class in America! > The Alberg designed 19' Typhoon and 23' SeaSprite are other great little > daysailer cruisers, especially that ole Sea Sprite! We bought a new trailer > for > our Electra from Triad Trailers and it is wonderful! > > Scott Wallace > Cincinnati Sailor, Spindrift Electra 216 > > RABBIT649 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: RABBIT649 at aol.com > > > > Dear Sanders, > > Your broad knowledge and well developed esthetic prompt me to ask you > for > > your help and opinion. Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'm grateful. > > What's out there in traditional hulls from 20-28' with a big cockpit > and > > little or no cabin, for weekending and gunkholing a big bay? I love the > > Pearson Ensign, but I still want a self bailing cockpit, for bayworthyness. > > > I've seen a Pearson Commander once (Ariel hull 25'6" with a small cuddy-If > > anybody knows of any for sale, please let me know.) and now, from Sanders, > > the Bristol 27 weekender (which I still haven't seen a picture of-- the > site > > has a picture only of the cruising model). Any others? Any for sale? My > knees > > are shot, I think my Alberg 30 days may be coming to a close. I need less > > boat (unless I decide to buy a floating condominium, which isn't likely). > > Thanks to Sanders and to all who write. > > Paul Cicchetti > > #23 Ashwagh > > rabbit649 at AOL.com > > > > In a message dated 1/31/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > SandersM at aol.com writes: > > > > > David, greetings. > > > > > > The B24s aren't in the same class, in terms of design and construction > and > > > sailing performance, as the B29/30, or the Alberg 30. You can do a lot > > > better for the money. > > > > > > If you're looking for a good sailing vessel that is handsome and > > affordable, > > > > > > and the older Bristols and Alberg 30s move you, you might try to find > what > > > is > > > called a Bristol 27 Weekender, which is (surprise!) another Alberg > design. > > > > > Bristol built two versions of the 27 -- the standard 27 is a shrunken > > > version > > > of the 29, but the interior is cramped, and the coachroof is ungainly. > > The > > > Weekender has the same hull, but with a longer cockpit and a short > > coachroof; > > > > > > below, she has four simple berths and makes no effort to accommodate > more > > > than 2-3 people for more than 2-3 days. The Weekender is one of the > > > prettiest boats you'll ever see, a real head-turner -- a gorgeous > classic > > > Alberg hull with low freeboard and a sweeping sheer. They're powered > by > > > outboards that you mount in a well hidden in the lazarette so it doesn' > t > > > hang > > > off of the transom. > > > > > > They didn't make too many Weekenders, so they're not easy to come by. > But > > > if > > > you can find one for sale, you can probably pick it up for somewhere > > around > > > $6,000 to $8,000, assuming she's in decent shape. Less, obviously, if > > she's > > > > > > tired and in need of a good home. > > > > > > If you want to learn more about the Bristols, there is a very good Web > > site > > > devoted to them which you can view at this URL: > > > > > > http://members.aol.com/bristol32/bristolyachts.html > > > > > > Good luck! There are many options -- keep looking. Find a > thoroughbred > > > that > > > makes your heart leap when you're taking the launch out to her. I find > > that > > > > > > the A30 does that for me, but there are many others that would as well. > > The > > > > > > Weekender would do it. So would a pretty 24-footer with a canoe stern > > > called > > > a Quickstep. So would a 28-foot Southern Cross, another canoe-stern > > pocket > > > cruiser that is easy on the eyes. > > > > > > Sanders --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW. Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 949390307.0