[Alberg30] Alberg 30 #426 For Sale - Registering Boats - Importing to Canada

[John Birch]

Importing Albergs into Canada:

When looking for an Alberg, before finding Sunstone, I investigated the
option of buying in the USA and returning the boat to Canada.

As these boats were built in Whitby, Ontario, Canada they may be able to be
imported without having to pay the GST. PST would still apply.

If the boat was originally built for a Canadian, and taken delivery of in
Canada, and that this can be documented, then the MST (GST's predecessor)
would have been paid. It there for, if that tax (MST) was paid, will not be
necessary to pay the GST. However the burden of proof is on the
purchaser/importer.

If the vessel was originally built In Bond, that is for export, to the
Chesapeake (for example) the MST would not have been collected and therefore
the GST would apply. No duties now apply due to NAFTA and the fact it is a
Canadian Manufactured vessel.

You may be able to avoid any State Sales Tax as the boat is for export by a
non citizen - check.

You will be required to delist the vessel from the US Coast Guard before
importing it into Canada or registering it. You can register the boat or
licence it before you import her into Canada (advisable) but to register her
under British Registry for Canadian Ships you will need a Canadian Approved
Surveyor - they exist in the USA, they may only survey vessels being
registered in Canada and a list is available from the Coast Guard, or from
Canada Customs or from the Port of Registry Office - Don Powers in Toronto
for Toronto.

Whether you hire a customs broker or not is up to you, it might be prudent,
a lawyer - that depends on your comfort zone. You can do the title search
yourself, I am told that the US Coast Guard is quite helpful in steering you
through the process, our own people are less helpful. Trucking will cost you
about $2000 (from areas within the arc) from Maryland, Connecticut,
Massachusetts,  Maine to Toronto. From Florida it is about $4000. Most
company's will FOB to Buffalo and second invoice you for Buffalo to Toronto
to reduce the GST hit on the transport, unless that has become illegal.

Convert your money from a Mechantile Bank like Friedberg Mercantile Bank in
Toronto (Bay and Richmond) as they will give you a much better break on the
exchange rate than the Big 4.

It would be best for you to take the time and personally shepherd as much of
this process as possible yourself. Also, once sold, the boat has to be out
of State within a specific time, usually 30 days - depending on the State.
It must leave the State physically, if you are planning to cruise the boat
there, without returning to Canada first, you must complete all the paper
work first and apply for a cruising permit before you go sailing. Don't cut
corners here, the US is very security conscious with arrest and seizure of
the boat as a likely outcome. Non US citizens simply shall not own Flagged
US boats.

Likely this all seems a royal pain to put together, as with all things, the
second time will be much easier ; )

Good luck,

John


----- Original Message -----
From: Bob <bob at fox.nstn.ca>
To: <Sunstone at idirect.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Alberg 30 #426 For Sale - Regisitering Boats


>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the informative posting,
>
> I'm in the research phase of boat buying, and would like to buy an Alberg
> 30.
>
> Do you know of the important details/advice of bring a boat back from the
US
> to Canada?
>
> Do you need a lawyer, or are other procedures to complete the transaction?
>
> Thanks
>
> -Bob
>
>
>
>
> F.Y.I. Any vessel with a motor 10 hp or greater shall be licensed or
> registered. (That's why 9.9hp outboard motors exist.) The difference
between
> registration and licensing is the boat is registered by name under the
> British Registry for Canadian Ships and as such The Queen has 36 shares,
of
> the 100, in your vessel and no numbers need be applied to the exterior
hull.
> The vessel can be conscripted in time of war. It requires a survey for the
> purpose and costs more to do, but only one vessel in the country can carry
> the name i.e. Sunstone, there can be a Sunstone II or III etc but only one
> of each and the hailing Port must be on the stern. With a licensed vessel,
> only the numbers on the bow matter and you can call it anything you want.
>
> Travelling abroad, I am told, registry boats are easier to land - for
> financing purposes they are definitely easier to track. Loans and liens
have
> to be registered with the Port Authority of Record so finding a vessel's
> debt history is easier. The tradition is kind of nice too.
>
> F.Y.I. Any vessel with a motor 10 hp or greater shall be licensed or
> registered. (That's why 9.9hp outboard motors exist.) The difference
between
> registration and licensing is the boat is registered by name under the
> British Registry for Canadian Ships and as such The Queen has 36 shares,
of
> the 100, in your vessel and no numbers need be applied to the exterior
hull.
> The vessel can be conscripted in time of war. It requires a survey for the
> purpose and costs more to do, but only one vessel in the country can carry
> the name i.e. Sunstone, there can be a Sunstone II or III etc but only one
> of each and the hailing Port must be on the stern. With a licensed vessel,
> only the numbers on the bow matter and you can call it anything you want.
>
> Travelling abroad, I am told, registry boats are easier to land - for
> financing purposes they are definitely easier to track. Loans and liens
have
> to be registered with the Port Authority of Record so finding a vessel's
> debt history is easier. The tradition is kind of nice too.
>
> I imagine in the US, the difference between licensed and documented
vessels
> is somewhat similar, excepting The Queen bit of course.
>
> You are legally bound to pay taxes at the time of completion of sale in
the
> case of a broker, or within a reasonable time after completion of a
private
> sale (a judge's definition of reasonable, as in that or the next business
> day) no matter which option you choose - you cannot sail or use a boat
that
> is not licensed or registered - period.
>
> If you don't "complete the sale" for some period of time, you do not
> actually own the boat. Meaning an unscrupulous previous owner could
encumber
> the vessel during the interregnum or sell it to someone else.
>
> Just a suggestion.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gord Laco
> To: public-list at alberg30.org
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Alberg 30 #426 For Sale
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> A broker named Jack Pady has electronic images of my boat, you can contact
> him via his website to look at them.
>
> Re registration... I'd be carefull about not registering.  I think that
the
> Gov would take a dim view of not getting their sales taxes.
>
> Re: wooden boat... I'm zeroing in.
>
> Gord
> KC426 Surprise
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob
> To: gord at transatmarine.com
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:51 AM
> Subject: RE: [Alberg30] Alberg 30 #426 For Sale
>
>
> Hi Gord,
>
> I emailed you before,  just wondering if your boat is registered.
>
> An accountant friend tells me that you do not have to register a boat and
> can put off the sales tax until the boat is registered.
>
> Did you get that wooden boat yet?
>
> Do you have any pictures that you could send?
>
> Could you give me your phone number, I'm on the freedom plan.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Crinion
> Nova Scotia
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-admin at alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-admin at alberg30.org]On Behalf Of Gord Laco
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 1:10 PM
> To: public-list at alberg30.org
> Subject: [Alberg30] Alberg 30 #426 For Sale
>
>
>
>   Hello all -
>
> I am offering my Alberg 30 for sale.  She is #426 (that is with liner),
> Harken furling, #1, #2, spin & main converted to slab reefing.  Dark blue
> hull.  I'm her second owner.  New upholstery.  Three anchors, two 1/2"
rope
> rodes + 100' chain.  Atomic 4 in great shape.  Knotmeter, hand GPS, ready
to
> go.  Lying Georgian Bay, Ontario.  $22,500 Canadian
>
> Gordon Laco
> (705) 721-0143 days
> (705) 526-7587 home

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