[Alberg30] Thru hulls
Mike Lehman
sail_505 at hotmail.com
Wed Mar 5 11:40:51 PST 2003
The smaller diameter thru-hull were home-made by Whitby. Essentially the
were a piece of threaded pipe put through the hull with a washer on the
outside. The outside of the pipe was mashed over (sometimes soldered) on the
washer. The inside had a nut screwed over the threads. Electrolysis would
attack the washer and it would fall off and the pipe would fall off on the
inside of the boat. Several have sunk from this proble and you never know
when the failure will occur. The last time I bought a 1/2" or 3/4" bronze
genuine thru-hull fitting they were about $10-$12. There is NO reason not to
change these older fitting if you find them on your boat. The simple way to
tell is to scrape the bottom paint off the fitting if it looks like a washer
with pipe lip around the center hole - get rid of it! Hope this helps. We
have pictures of failed parts if that would help.
Mike Lehman
"Gilleleje" #505
----Original Message Follows----
From: Henry Sharpe <henry_sharpe at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Alberg 30 public list <public-list at alberg30.org>
To: public-list at alberg30.org
Subject: [Alberg30] Thru hulls
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:13:16 -0800 (PST)
Can someone tell me the story of the Whitbey smaller diameter thru hull as
relevant to an early boat (#111)
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Does anyone have the phone... (Dave Terrell)
2. Mast support beam
3. Re: Request for Purchasing Advice
4. Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation (Randy Weatherspoon)
5. Re: Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation (Gary Barker)
6. RE: Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation (sousa, stephen (ENG))
7. Re: Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation (Mike Lehman)
8. Re: Mast support beam (George Dinwiddie)
9. Re: Deck Pipe installation (Bob Chambers)
10. Positive Stability Range (Alfredo)
11. Re: Positive Stability Range (Jay Davenport)
12. Re: Positive Stability Range (Alfredo)
13. RE: Storm Sails (Positive Stability Range) (Alfredo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:27:50 -0500
From: "Dave Terrell"
To:
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Does anyone have the phone...
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Thanks. I scrolled down! what an original idea!!! Looks like NZ found
the technological limits referred to below.
>>> gdinwiddie at alberg30.org 03/04/03 03:23PM >>>
Dave Terrell wrote:
> I think it was Southern Spars - an NZ company. They have a good
> reputation, and surely say they build to specifications.
>From http://www.southernspars.com/pages/raceindex.cfm comes this
interesting information:
---------------------------------------------------------------
In February 2003, Team New Zealand will be defending the America's
Cup
for the second time. The start date for the challengers in the Louis
Vuitton is set for 1st October, 2002. In all, there will be nine
challengers competing through various round robins and sail offs for a
place in the America's Cup. Of these nine challengers, seven will
carry
spars manufactured by Southern Spars. Team New Zealand has also
continued their ongoing relationship with Southern Spars and will
again
carry a Southern rig.
The last few years have seen the various Southern Project Managers
liaising with their respective syndicates translating their ideas into
reality. As designs are the responsibility of each respective
syndicate,
the Southern Project Manager's role is to take the designs and
oversee
them into the creation of the finished product.
Within the IACC class, there are parameters in which the measurements
of
the boats must be built. These rules also define building materials.
For
example, spars cannot be built with high modulus carbon fibre, a
lighter, but more expensive option, than the specified intermediate
modulus carbon fibre. The challenge therefore lies to utilise the
intermediate modulus carbon fibre the most effectively, to produce the
lightest and strongest rig possible. The physics of the materials and
those within the sailing environment will ultimately define the
performance of the spar. In the drive to claim the technological edge,
/limits need to be pushed/ to see where boundaries lie. /Until a
boundary is broken it cannot be said where it lies/ and much of the
pre-competition testing has been about defining these limits.
With Southern's history of technological developments and leading
edge
techniques, there has been a demand for Southern built America's Cup
spars. Southern Spar's background with IACC rigs gives them an
expertise
that no other spar manufacturer. can match. Southern's involvement
with
the current generation of IACC rigs allows the company /to continue to
push the boundaries/ in design concepts through the development of
manufacturing techniques a processes and thus allow syndicates to
realise their designs in finished products.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I think Southern Spars broke a few boundaries in this race series. ;-)
- George
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope your road is a long one. George
Dinwiddie
May there be many summer mornings when,
gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
with what pleasure, what joy,
http://www.Alberg30.org
you enter harbors you're seeing for the first time;
from 'Ithaka' by C.P.
Cavafy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:29:11 EST
From: PELLICK at aol.com
To: public-list at alberg30.org
Subject: [Alberg30] Mast support beam
Message-ID: <1ca.44fb30c.2b969ed7 at aol.com>
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Hello,
Previously there was information given on where to find the aluminum beam
used to help support the original laminated wooden mast support beam. I am
looking to upgrade this on my boat and would like to be steered in the right
direction.
Ciao,
Paul Ellick #210
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:57:40 -0500
From:
To: "Alberg 30 public list"
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Request for Purchasing Advice
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Your right George, there's alot of boats with bad balsa cores out there. =
I use to think that they're a bargin too...but not anymore. Stay away f=
rom bad decks.
Jim Mennucci
----- Original Message -----
From: George Dinwiddie
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:27 PM
To: Alberg 30 public list
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Request for Purchasing Advice
quest433 at msn.com wrote:
> Some of the Albergs manufactured in the early 70's, Hull numbers
> between around 400 to 500 developed soft decks. =20
[snip]
> Use a hammer on the deck. If you get any dull thuds in
> stead of a nice sharp crack you probably got some water & rot in
> process. If you can feel the softness when you walk on it I'd say
> the deck was in an advanced phase of degradation. I wouldn't buy one
> with soft decks.
Of course, Mennucci doesn't say how he knows this. He rebuilt the =20
entire deck of #433. Actually, check for deck rot on any balsa-cored =20
boat. (The early A30's used masonite for the core.) On my boat, cracks =20
and holes drilled for hardware had allowed water to infiltrate in a =20
number of areas. I've re-cored as needed (and still have some to do), =20
and it's a lot of work. It's better to keep the balsa dry in the first =20
place.
- George
Calypso, #543
-- =20
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope your road is a long one. George Dinwiddie
May there be many summer mornings when, gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
with what pleasure, what joy, http://www.Alberg30.org
you enter harbors you're seeing for the first time;
from 'Ithaka' by C.P. Cavafy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:43:33 -0600
From: Randy Weatherspoon
To: "'public-list at alberg30.org'"
Subject: [Alberg30] Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation
Message-ID: <01C2E28F.196BEFA0.rlwspoon at earthlink.net>
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Message: 4
I was evaluating various tank configuations for repowering when I noticed
the underside floor of the cockpit looked like it was becoming delaminated
-- like a bale of hay with brown stringy things hanging down over the fuel
tank --- it looked like fiberglass strands. I couldn't get a good or
close look at the area--- but the floor from the outside feels firm with no
give (I'm 265lbs ) ---what I was wondering was if there was any chance of
gas fumes causing this sort of damage?
Also on the topic of renovating an old hull (1969);
1) Did you pull the through hulls out and rebed them completely? If so -
how did you get them out if they were in relatively good shape -- and how
can you tell thier strength remaining if they don't leak?
2) Did you replace the ball valves with seacocks?
All of my valves have what looks to be 1/2" plywood backups on each through
hull and appears to be OK but I don't want to be in the middle of the Gulf
of Mexico and one fail...
Thanks for the input
Randy Weatherspoon -#385
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:09:34 -0500
From: Gary Barker
To: Alberg 30 public list
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation
Message-ID: <82960AE3-4EAF-11D7-9A14-000393C43814 at prexar.com>
In-Reply-To: <01C2E28F.196BEFA0.rlwspoon at earthlink.net>
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Randy,
I gave out a website that has information on just about any restoration
you could do. The erroneous address was www.glissando381. But the REAL
address is www.triton381.com. Any Alberg owner owes themself a trip to
that site.
Gary Barker
#307
On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 09:43 PM, Randy Weatherspoon wrote:
> I was evaluating various tank configuations for repowering when I
> noticed
> the underside floor of the cockpit looked like it was becoming
> delaminated
> -- like a bale of hay with brown stringy things hanging down over the
> fuel
> tank --- it looked like fiberglass strands. I couldn't get a good or
> close look at the area--- but the floor from the outside feels firm
> with no
> give (I'm 265lbs ) ---what I was wondering was if there was any
> chance of
> gas fumes causing this sort of damage?
>
> Also on the topic of renovating an old hull (1969);
> 1) Did you pull the through hulls out and rebed them completely? If
> so -
> how did you get them out if they were in relatively good shape -- and
> how
> can you tell thier strength remaining if they don't leak?
> 2) Did you replace the ball valves with seacocks?
>
> All of my valves have what looks to be 1/2" plywood backups on each
> through
> hull and appears to be OK but I don't want to be in the middle of the
> Gulf
> of Mexico and one fail...
>
> Thanks for the input
>
> Randy Weatherspoon -#385
>
>
>
> +======================================================================
> ================+
> | New England Ropes on Sale; EXAMPLE: 1/2 inch Sta-Set only 51
> cents per foot |
> |
> http://www.myaffiliateprogram.com/u/sailnet/t.asp?id=1066&p=store/
> item.cfm?pid=25719 |
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:51:24 -0500
From: "sousa, stephen (ENG)"
To: "'Alberg 30 public list'"
Subject: RE: [Alberg30] Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation
Message-ID: <7FAAE4DE7248554ABD8C69DD4A18289B3347E3 at srnamath>
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Randy,
In my opinion if you spend the time and pain removing the thru hulls, I
would replace them with new product. At least you know what you have when
the job is complete. I removed a number of thru hulls by applying a little
heat to the thru hull and the fitting fell out of the hull. I replaced the
fittings with ball valves made by Buck Algonquin purchased at a local ship
supply house in Gloucester, MA. If I were going to install a sea cock,
Spartan Marine the manufacturer of Cape Dory can provede a true sea cock.
They are located in Southwest Harbor, Maine. #114 which is a 1965 had marine
plywood installed which remains in the boat with the new thru hulls.
The flaking under the cockpit could be strands from a chop gun used to spray
the glass and cloth, my 1965 hull was laid up by hand and has a smooth
finish. If the cockpit floor is strong and intact I would leave it alone.
Stephen
#114
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Weatherspoon [mailto:rlwspoon at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:44 PM
To: 'public-list at alberg30.org'
Subject: [Alberg30] Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation
I was evaluating various tank configuations for repowering when I noticed
the underside floor of the cockpit looked like it was becoming delaminated
-- like a bale of e hay with brown stringy things hanging down over the fuel
tank --- it looked like fiberglass strands. I couldn't get a good or
close look at the area--- but the floor from the outside feels firm with no
give (I'm 265lbs ) ---what I was wondering was if there was any chance of
gas fumes causing this sort of damage?
Also on the topic of renovating an old hull (1969);
1) Did you pull the through hulls out and rebed them completely? If so -
how did you get them out if they were in relatively good shape -- and how
can you tell thier strength remaining if they don't leak?
2) Did you replace the ball valves with seacocks?
All of my valves have what looks to be 1/2" plywood backups on each through
hull and appears to be OK but I don't want to be in the middle of the Gulf
of Mexico and one fail...
Thanks for the input
Randy Weatherspoon -#385
+===========================================================================
===========+
| New England Ropes on Sale; EXAMPLE: 1/2 inch Sta-Set only 51 cents
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 22:01:14 -0500
From: "Mike Lehman"
To: "Alberg 30 public list"
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation
Message-ID:
References: <01C2E28F.196BEFA0.rlwspoon at earthlink.net>
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what I was wondering was if there was any chance of
> gas fumes causing this sort of damage
Not likely, probably a sloppy glass job followed by years exhaust and dirt.
how
> can you tell thier strength remaining if they don't leak
If there is any pink metal, there are signs of electrolysis. Depending on
how deep the pink discoloration and overall appearance you may want to
replace the thru-hull. When in doubt, buy new ones, they are relatively
cheap.
Did you replace the ball valves with seacocks?
If there are any gate valves - replace them. On the Alberg 30, Whitby
installed homemade thru-hulls fittings for the smaller sizes (the head
intake; the engine intake; and the galley sink intake) - if you have the
original thru-hulls here - replace them! Let me repeat - replace them!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Weatherspoon"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:43 PM
Subject: [Alberg30] Cockpit Floor / Hull Renovation
> I was evaluating various tank configuations for repowering when I noticed
> the underside floor of the cockpit looked like it was becoming
delaminated
> -- like a bale of hay with brown stringy things hanging down over the
fuel
> tank --- it looked like fiberglass strands. I couldn't get a good or
> close look at the area--- but the floor from the outside feels firm with
no
> give (I'm 265lbs ) ---what I was wondering was if there was any chance of
> gas fumes causing this sort of damage?
>
> Also on the topic of renovating an old hull (1969);
> 1) Did you pull the through hulls out and rebed them completely? If so -
> how did you get them out if they were in relatively good shape -- and how
> can you tell thier strength remaining if they don't leak?
> 2) Did you replace the ball valves with seacocks?
>
> All of my valves have what looks to be 1/2" plywood backups on each
through
> hull and appears to be OK but I don't want to be in the middle of the
Gulf
> of Mexico and one fail...
>
> Thanks for the input
>
> Randy Weatherspoon -#385
>
>
>
+===========================================================================
===========+
> | New England Ropes on Sale; EXAMPLE: 1/2 inch Sta-Set only 51 cents
per foot |
> |
http://www.myaffiliateprogram.com/u/sailnet/t.asp?id=1066&p=store/item.cfm?p
id=25719 |
>
+===========================================================================
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 00:09:56 -0500
From: George Dinwiddie
To: Alberg 30 public list
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Mast support beam
Message-ID: <3E6586A4.3080409 at alberg30.org>
In-Reply-To: <1ca.44fb30c.2b969ed7 at aol.com>
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Paul,
There's a number of different options, and different people have
different opinions. You can go to http://www.alberg30.org and search
the web site (on "mast beam" or something) and find messages in the
archives. You can also take a look at
http://www.alberg30.org/collaborate/moin.cgi/DeckBeamRepair for a
synopsis of some of the discussions.
=== message truncated ===
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