[Alberg30] New Sail 2
John Birch
Sunstone at cogeco.ca
Mon Oct 13 14:11:55 PDT 2003
Well there are a lot of variables in sail longevity. The worst culprit being
sailing too light a sail in too heavy a wind, and UV damage.
One extreme is AC Boats with sails having a useful life of 25 hours (and
they are exotic).
In the real world, my experience might be helpful - we bought new sails from
Triton Sails in Mississauga, Ontario. A Main with a 2 ply leach full roach
main and full battens in 1995 - that sail has held it's shape remarkably
long and continues to be a good sail and I expect it will continue to be for
quite a while longer.
The Genoa, new 1995 is starting to show some draft aft back - but continues
to be a good sail and gives good pointing.
The late Joe Fernandez who built the sails, his son Ron has followed in his
father's footsteps and continues the business, explained to me that the
sails built which were original to Sunstone A-37 1970 were all built
lighter than they would be today as then no one was sure as to how heavy to
go on cloth. They lasted until 1995 - I consider the new sails to be quite
useful today - they are all Dacron offshore grade of top quality Bainbridge
cloth.
There are simply no sails which won't lose their shape no matter what they
are made from - and that is largely dependent on the user. Fold or roll your
sails, minimize luffing, set your tensions correctly and don't overload your
sails in too much wind. All easier said than done.
More exotic sails, laminates come with their own issues too - delamination,
mildew in the laminates, chafe on Mylar, cyclic loading on Kevlar leading to
catastrophic failure - and they all lose shape too before they kaput.
Exotics you can ruin right out of the bag with the wrong halyard tension
(particularly Mylar).
I would recommend going with the best Dacron cloth you can afford and with a
highly reputable sail maker in your area. All Dacron is not alike - there is
a big difference in Dacron weaves - go for the good stuff and hang the
cost - it is marginal when compared to the labour costs in making a sail. I
helped Joe loft my sails during production and gained a healthy respect for
the skill and time and labour involved in sail making - as well a healthy
respect for the man himself.
And on mains - get the full battens put on from day one - they help to hold
the draft in position. And I love my full 2 ply leach (last 3 feet head to
clew)15 oz - will never rip. Fast - we took line honours in 1995 against a
PHRF fleet of 50 boats, including x-95s, comfortina 42, C&C33's and 35s -
all same start - we crossed first - yea, good sails - and still good.
Hope this is a help.
John - Sunstone A-37 KC65 (Ex Windrose A-30 KC544)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Terrell" <DTERRELL at message.nmc.edu>
To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] New Sail 2
> thanks I do not take your remarks as inapproriate in anyway. You make a
> useful and important point. I too think that the A30 is such a classic
> that one should stay with the original design intents. I do think it is
> Ok to get the best possbile cruising sails. Another question. Dacron
> last and lasts - ture, but how long in your experience does it maintain
> its original shape or at least keep a reasonable shape. I have dealt
> with "bagged out" dacron sails before and want to get sails that will
> keep their shape as long as possible - given a reaonable expenditiure.
> Thanks.
>
> >>> Sunstone at cogeco.ca 10/13/03 03:54PM >>>
> Be aware that, to my knowledge, a boat raced in PHRF can be protested
> for
> using equipment that is not class legal - even though the boat is
> being
> raced on rating. As a PHRF rater explained to me, the boat's handicap
> level
> is determined by crunching the performance of as many boats of her
> class as
> can be found. If those values are determined based on class
> parameters,
> grounds may exist for a valid protest for a boat which is materially
> altered. Exotic sails may qualify as a material change (no pun
> intended).
> Only a protest rulings and an appeal to the national authority would
> clearly
> define the issue.
>
> Personally, I think it's ethically questionable to alter a boat
> substantially from it's Class and/or Rating Rules - whether one is
> caught on
> it is irrelevant. Other's may disagree - I am certainly not making any
> aspersions on anyone else - please do not take it so.
>
> And Dacron lasts and lasts ....
>
> Just suggestions - besides - I hate protests - which like taxes are
> necessary - but hopefully in small quantities ; ).
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Terrell" <DTERRELL at message.nmc.edu>
> To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:12 PM
> Subject: RE: [Alberg30] New Sail 2
>
>
> > Thanks - I am sure that it is not class legal for racing. I do not
> > intend to race the boat except maybe in PHRF and that is unlikely.
> While
> > I do not intend to sell the boat, I know it always important to think
> of
> > the next owner when one makes changes.
> >
> > the question is and I think many people could give me some insight,
> if
> > I get dacron sails from Haarstick, for example, how long will they
> > likely retain their shape. I would like to purchase a set of sails
> that
> > will really last and vectran will do this but not inexpensively. Any
> > thoughts would be much appreciated? I know we have a lot of
> experience
> > with this issue. any input will help me sort this question out.
> >
> > >>> larmor at myexcel.com 10/13/03 03:04PM >>>
> > Dave,
> >
> > Beware Vectran may not be class legal for one design racing. I
> think
> > Dacron is still your best bet for a boat this size.
> >
> >
> > Larry Morris
> > Solstice #501
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
> > [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Dave Terrell
> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 2:08 PM
> > To: public-list at alberg30.org
> > Subject: [Alberg30] New Sail 2
> >
> > two things
> >
> > 1. I just talked with Doug at Haarstick and he told me that the
> > strong
> > system is made for internal as well as external mast tracks.
> > Haarstick's
> > approach to quality control and quote are impressive.
> >
> > 2. a question: has anyone in our group purchased vectran sails from
> > Hood Sails? Practical Sailor said some very interesting things about
> > them in their current edition - hence the question.
> >
> > I am eager to hear what experiences any of us may have had with Hood
> > sails.
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------+
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