[Public-list] Bilge & Self Leveling Foam

Tue May 4 04:08:00 PDT 2004

Hello Roger - 

Just saw your question at the bottom of your last message.  I don't think
that filling up the keel is a bad thing, you are right that flexibility is
not so much of a problem down there.

If you use foam I imagine that you really want to be sure that water never
gets down there...funny, that is exactly the sort of situation that before
the days of fibreglass hot tar or pitch would have been poured in.

Gord #426

> Bill,
> 
> I asked earlier about sand in the bilge but mine was at the forward end of
> the bilge just aft of the ballast casting.  The portion aft of that in #148
> looks like fiberglass, is flat and isn't cracked.
> 
> You mentioned "liquid foam."  I am looking for a self leveling foam I can
> pour in the low spots of the cockpit lockers and the lazarette.  My thought
> is to raise the floor of the lazarette so it is above the water line and I
> can use it as a propane storage locker.  Self leveling foam would fill the
> cavity and create a "mold" for the new fiberglass floor.  It has to be
> lightweight and flexible though.  I have only found self leveling caulk
> which, although flexible, is heavier than water. Does  anyone know of a foam
> like the expanding insulating foam sold at hardware stores but is also self
> leveling.
> 
> RE reglassing your bilge,  Gordon Laco gave me some good advice about not
> "stiffening" parts of the hull with solid epoxy filler.  However, it seems
> that the bottom of the keel is already so stiff that adding more epoxy would
> be OK (any thoughts Gordon).   Have you thought about dropping some pre cut
> matting and pouring epoxy on top.  I ask because, even with the engine out,
> I can't reach the bottom of the bilge to save my life.  It still, however,
> has become a long term tool and flashlight storage locker.  I have even
> taken to leaving a sacrificial screwdriver to satisfy the bilge gods but
> their appetite seems insatiable.
> 
> Roger Kingsland
> Chief Financial Officer (AKA, check writer)
> PERFECT intentions, A30 #148
> N40°  29.288'
> W79°  54.228'
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Blevins" <billblevins at mac.com>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 7:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Saturated Hull, Bilge Damage
> 
> 
>> Now that most everyone is probably back on the e-mail list, can I ask my
>> bilge floor question again?
>> 
>> I remember from the past a thread about a black sand / silica mixture
> under
>> the floor of the bilge. It almost looks like uncured cement and is under a
>> fiberglass resin "floor" in the bilge. Does anyone else remember that OR
> has
>> anyone else had their bilge floor crack and come loose?
>> 
>> I have an old hull without the liner. Was that floor original or was it
>> poured on top of the sand / silica mixture later? On the old hulls, do you
>> have a fiberglass floor in your bilge?
>> 
>> My solution at the moment is to let it dry, pour in liquid foam, level it
>> off and re-glass the floor. The section is only about 12 inches long that
>> came up and is directly under the engine. My concern is with the part of
> the
>> bilge that goes up under the cabin sole and battery compartments. I can
> see
>> it with a light and mirror and it's really dirty under there but the only
>> way to get to it for a repair is to cut the floor out of the battery
>> compartments under the cabin sole.
>> 
>> Bill Blevins
>> Sabrina #158
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Bill Blevins <billblevins at mac.com>
>>> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List <public-list at alberg30.org>
>>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:16:40 -0400
>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List <public-list at alberg30.org>, Matthew Hay
>>> <haymatthew_ at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Saturated Hull, Bilge Damage
>>> 
>>> If what you say is correct, then there was a false floor poured at some
>>> point over the black sand/silica mixture on Sabrina. The fiberglass
> floor of
>>> what was my "old" bilge was about 3 inches above the wood and was poured
>>> over the sand mixture with a thickness of about a quarter-inch. I did
>>> consider removing the engine.
>>> 
>>> So, you used a bilge coat over the wooden beam and that was it? How far
>>> forward of the engine compartment does the bilge go? Under the floor in
> the
>>> main cabin? The battery boxes in the floor drain below to some space.
> Did
>>> you deal with that in any way?
>>> 
>>> Bill Blevins
>>> "Sabrina" #158
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On 4/20/04 10:39 AM, "Matthew Hay" <haymatthew_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Bill their is a lot of debris under your engine.  The sand is most
> likely
>>>> from the cockpit drains.  The piece of wood is in the bottom of your
> bilge
>>>> was to act as an anchor to screw bilge pumps too etc.  My hypothesis is
> that
>>>> so much sand ends up in the bottom of your bilge from the cockpit
> drains,
>>>> that over the years that wood piece is covered, and new anchoring
> devices
>>>> are used to mount pumps on top all of the sand.  I recommend removing
> your
>>>> engine in order to remove the sand, clean, and degrease, and paint,
> your
>>>> bilge.  I did the same thing to my bilge last month.  I had the engine
> out
>>>> and went down to the boat to paint the bilge.  After taking a closer
>>>> examination I realized that what I thought was the bottom of the bilge
> was
>>>> in fact about a foot of sand/grease/oil/water in the bottom of the
> bilge.  I
>>>> used a large spoon and slowly scooped out all of the sand mixture as
> well as
>>>> a few 1960's style tools, numerous washers, some strange home made
> device
>>>> made out of copper tubing.  It is not easy to see the bottom of your
> bilge.
>>>> If I did not have the engine out I would not have been able to see the
>>>> bottom.  I essentially had to crawl down into the bilge with my spoon
> acting
>>>> as an auger to see the bottom.  I felt like Clint Eastwood in escape
> from
>>>> Alcatraz.  How would you be able to notice a crack in your bilge with
> the
>>>> engine in place and sand filling the bottom of it?
>>>> Furthermore, all of that sand mixture holds a lot of moisture.  That
> could
>>>> effect your moisture readings.  I have a drain hole in the bottom of my
> keel
>>>> that made this project much easier.  After I had  scooped out the bulk
> of
>>>> the the sand and engine parts etc. I used a hose with nozzle to flush
> the
>>>> remaining sand out the drain.  It also makes it easier to get the water
> out
>>>> in the fall and I just leave the plug out all winter.  I would really
> be
>>>> more concerned with water in my deck core.  Which you said is not very
> bad.
>>>> Good Lock,
>>>> Matthew #314
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm in a situation... My hull is saturated! 30% plus over most of the
>>> underwater area on a marine grade moisture meter. The topsides are in
> the
>>> dry range at 8%. Sabrina will be drying out for a while. Do any of you
> have
>>> experience with how long this might take? I'll take new reading next
> week
>>> and compare with my pencil marks all over the hull. Very sad. :(
>>> 
>>> I've removed all of the gelcoat and finished sanding the hull this
> weekend.
>>> I found about 20 areas of blistering and delaminating, each about 3-5
> inches
>>> wide, through the first layer of matt, actually found more but they seem
> to
>>> be dry inside so I'm leaving them alone.
>>> 
>>> Anyway...THE BIG PROBLEM I found Saturday was that the floor of the
> bilge
>>> had a big crack. When I was vacuuming out the little water that the pump
>>> wouldn't get, I sucked up a piece of the fiberglass. Then it started!
> The
>>> sandy material below was soaked and I sucked out a 5 x 12" area down to
> the
>>> wooden plank below.
>>> 
>>> What is the fix for that after it's dry? How do you ever know if you
> have
>>> cracks forward of the area under the engine? Do people ever cut out the
>>> floor and battery boxes to repair? Do you think that's necessary?
>>> 
>>> Bill Blevins
>>> A30 Sabrina #158
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-list mailing list
>>> Public-list at alberg30.org
>>> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-list mailing list
>> Public-list at alberg30.org
>> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> 

 1083668880.0