[Public-list] Rudder Repair - New Method - Advice Welcome

Michael Connolly crufone at sbcglobal.net
Wed Sep 29 10:50:45 PDT 2004


Austin,
Are you planning on using a new piece for the rudder stock?  You plan to use the Epoxy for a metal to metal bond, correct? New, clean metals tend to bond better.  What would be the advantage to adding the sleeve to the rudder stock and then bonding to the stock with Epoxy?  Could you not just weld the vanes directly to the rudder stock and avoid the extra piece of the sleeve? (That is how my boat was done hull# 133). The only advantage that I can see is to align the tiller fitting with the rudder blade prior to bonding with Epoxy.  You can also accomplish the same by welding vanes directly to the stock using an alignment jig. Epoxies work best in a thin layer appilication.  They tend not to be gap filling adhesives.
It seems to me that you might be adding an extra piece to the equation, (the sleeve), and a joint, (the Epoxy bond), that could fail.  The sleeve adds nothing to the function or durability of the repair, I don't see the need for it.  I would follow the KISS formula.
 
The whole thing assembles from the bottom and then the shoe goes on.  The sleeve does not add to ease of assembly or does it? 
 
My two cents,
Michael 

Austin Meyermann <somedaysailor2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you for the congrats. We love the boat and she just needs a little bit of work.

The sleeve would be 8.5" long and slid up over the stock. The vanes would run the length of the sleeve and then extend 6" out on either side of the rudder (sleeve and vanes would be bronze). I would then through bolt (offset) four times. 

The rudder is wood coated in fiberglass. 

The pins sheared at the point of connection with the stock. Supposedly they were bronze but I don't know. 

Mike Connelly mentioned that he would not trust an exopy resin due to the torque (with regard to adhereing the sleeve to the stock). I don't know enought to agree or disagree, but the torque would be displaced over the total area of the epoxy bond. If epoxy total covered the area between the stock and the sleeve, I would think there wouldn't be an issue. 

Your thoughts?


Austin

nwiddie wrote:
First of all, congratulations on your new boat.

As for the gudgeon, the originals were generally sand-cast bronze. If
you look at http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/Gudgeons/
you'll see both a cast and a welded gudgeon. You can also machine one,
but I think the best solution would be to have one cast. Phil Beigel
has had rudder shoes cast and could tell you where you can get it done.
In fact, it might be good to get a small supply cast at one time.

As for the rudder stock, please describe your setup in more detail.
Whitby has used a number of different arrangements over the years. A
couple of these are mentioned in the Alberg 30 Maintenance Manual.

Do you have a wooden or fiberglass rudder? Where are the pins that are
sheared?

I don't know of any A30's with zincs on the rudder. It's not normally a
problem. Even the pin into the rudder shoe usually wears before it
corrodes off.

- George

On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 07:08:41AM -0700, Austin Meyermann wrote:
> Hello to all!
> 
> I am the new owner of Inherit the Wind (formerly owned my Mike
> McGovern). I bought her last May and sailed her from Green Point to
> Young's Boatyard. On that note, that was my first time captaining a
> sailboat, my only crew was a friend who had never sailed, and we got
> into enough wind to take in a reef on the main! But what a day!! We had
> a blast and she sailed great.
> 
> I have sailed her most of this year with gear in marginal shape. I
> figured that this year was my year to sail all that I could and I could
> fix anything over winter.....well, I did not make it to winter.
> 
> A month ago, I left my slip and was motoring down the channel when I
> lost steerage. This resulted in a swim to shore, a tow from Phil (the
> owner of Young's and a great guy), and a haul out.
> 
> The 1/4" pins that attach the rudder stock to the rudder had sheared
> (no zincs below the waterline). Additionally, the gudgeon that attaches
> to pintle in the rudder was cracked...stainless steel bolts through the
> bronze....again no zincs.
> 
> So....this leaves me now with a fun project. Please advise on fixing the
> gudgeon, I know these are not a off the shelf item (far from it). Should
> I get a new one machined (don't want to because I think that it would
> be expensive)?
> 
> With regard to the other problem with the pins, I think that I have
> a novel solution. I am going to install a sleeve (1.25" ID) over the
> rudder stock (1.25" OD) and on that sleeve I am going to weld 2 vanes. The
> vanes will hug the rudder on both sides and I will cross bolt through the
> vanes and rudder. To attach the sleeve to the rudder stock, I will use
> epoxy. The vans should displace the force over the length of the welded
> on the sleeve and give superior strength to the traditional .25" pins.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> I look forward to hearing from and meeting you all soon!!!
> 
> 
> Austin & Lucy Meyermann #365 Inherit the Wind
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