[Public-list] RE: ELECTRIC DRIVE

Thu Sep 16 14:08:07 PDT 2004

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback.  I found a Farymann 4.3 kW
(http://www.americasgenerators.com/documents/docs/1078866260.pdf)  that is a
little lighter (192 lbs) and smaller for $4k.  The model with a cover
produces only 57 decibels (about the volume of human conversation) so
perhaps well designed sound deadening would allow operation at least while
sailing and maybe while at anchor.  It probably doesn't matter though
because maximum load is while "under power," I think?

This generator is still 28" front to back and I see your point RE fit.
Perhaps orientating the 28" dimension fore/aft would help but it would
probably require moving the main cabin bulkhead aft (in line w/ the port
bulkhead) and raising the bunk height so the electric generator portion,
which is lower than the diesel, could fit under the bunk (make no small
plans).

(Sidebar; along with a host of other dumb ideas, I thought of eliminating
the forward bump in the galley counter and making a continuous
port/starboard counter that would be about 8' long with sink amidships,
stove to port and under counter fridge to starboard; this would allow one to
slide the starboard bunk aft.)

Since the width of the gen set is 14", my guess is the base of the unit
would have to mount about 8" to 10" above the cabin sole.  My Universal 18
diesel weighs 255 pounds and is mounted, on average, about 4" above the
sole.  Any thoughts on the effect the higher mounting height but weight
amidships rather than aft. The additional, off center weight could be
countered to port with a holding tank under the port V berth and a water
tank under the main cabin berth,

Not only is ignorance bliss, it makes life so much simpler; therefore, I
haven't thought about exhaust and inverters and fuel and cooling and
vibration.

Roger

> Roger -
>
>
> If we assume we don't want to run the generator much when we're not
> motoring, then the generator has to put out at least 5 HP (down from the
> 15HP I began with!) at the low end. That's 3.73 kW. I looked up marine
> generators on http://usdieselengines.com/ and a 3.5 kW model costs about
> $4200 and
> occupies  31" x 17.5" x 18 ". You would still have to acoustically isolate
> it, cool it and exhaust it, so I can't see how it can quite fit in the
> hanging locker. It weighs about 215 lbs dry. It also puts out 120V AC so
you
> need inverters,
>
> I can imagine designing a yacht from scratch with such a system in place.
I
> would save it for a large boat, where the genset could be placed amidships
> and low. Still plenty of design and arrangement issues, but attractive for
> modularity.
>
> In the interest of full disclosure, I am a naval architect, though I've
not
> been involved in yacht design. I will "out" J Bergquist too, since he went
> to the same school I did (though MUCH later).
>
> Mike
> Rinn Duin #272
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org]On Behalf Of Roger L. Kingsland
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:46 AM
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] RE: ELECTRIC DRIVE
>
http://www.americasgenerators.com/documents/docs/1078866260.pdf

> Albergers,
>
> I looked into electric a few months ago and got great response from
> http://www.ev-america.com/.  Also,
> http://www.eboat.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;user=Roger seems to be
a
> pretty good forum on the subject.
>
> One approach is not to increase battery storage but to have adequate power
> sources (generator, solar, wind, propeller) for the applied load.  It
seems
> natural power sources (wind, solar, propeller) are not sufficient to
sustain
> long term propulsion so the alternatives are to add lots of heavy
batteries
> or include a generator. If I needed to repower, I would seriously look
into
> a generator (possibly mounted in the locker opposite the head where it
could
> be well insulated) powering an electric motor in the engine compartment.
> Space taken by the generator would be mostly be made up by space saved
aft.
> I think the biggest advantage is the efficiency of power delivery to non
> propulsion systems (fridge, freezer, air conditioning, radios,
instruments,
> radar, home entertainment system, microwave, satellite telephone, my
wife's
> computer collection, my George Foreman sandwich grille).  I understand
> alternators only charge efficiently at higher RPMs and engines (at least
> diesels) suffer if not run at 75% of full RPM or higher.  Therefore,
> charging batteries works best only when motoring (unless you idle the
motor
> at 2000 RPM).  With a generator, one could run it at maximum efficiency
> whenever the batteries need to be charged or when under propulsion.  The
> battery capacity could be just enough to handle the overnight load
(probably
> about the same as needed with engine propulsion).
>
> Any thoughts
>
> Roger L. Kingsland, AIA
> Managing Partner
> Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates (KSBA)
> N40° 27' 49"  W79° 57' 59"
> 3441 Butler Street
> Pittsburgh, PA 15201
> www.ksba.com
>
> 1(412) 252-1500 X101 - Office & Voice Mail
> 1(412) 779-5101 - Mobile (no voice mail)
> 1(412) 252-1510 - Fax
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "William Wallace" <tristan at one.net>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] RE: ELECTRIC DRIVE & Triton, ONDINE
>
>
> > Check out these Electric Drives!
> >
> > http://www.rayeo.com/ Electric Outboard
> >
> > http://pages.intrstar.net/~brb/submot.html
> >
> > Scott Wallace, Rhodes Meridian
> >
> > P.S. we found a Pearson Alberg designed Triton, Ondine, in our
> > midwestern boat yard north of Cincinnati, from Delaware...anyone know
> > of her past?
> >
> > The boatyard guys accused me of drawing and attracting strange older
> > ocean sailboats to their yard of predominately Hunter, Catalina and
> > McGregor boats!
> >
> > Now they have our Rhodes Meridian, a Pearson Triton and another old
> > full keeler, that reminds me of a Dana 24!
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 14, 2004, at 12:50 PM, George Dinwiddie wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, the advantage of electric is not performance, but silence.  I
knew
> > > a naval architect on the CompuServe Sailing Forum who was considering
> > > building a hybrid launch with a small gas motor in a well-insulated,
> > > well-isolated box generating the electricity.  The concept was a bit
> > > bulky for a typical sailboat, though.
> > >
> > >  - George
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 12:20:19PM -0400, Gordon Laco wrote:
> > >> That actually sounds pretty good!
> > >>
> > >> Gordon #426
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> The manufacturer sent me an estimate based on the size, shape and
> > >>> weight of an
> > >>> A30.  He recommends an an OZtwin motor, a battery pack (8 pcs of
> > >>> Leoch fiber
> > >>> battery, 110 Ah each) that will provide 4 knots cruising speed with
> > >>> about 8
> > >>> hours range. Full speed will be approximately 6½ knots and the range
> > >>> will be
> > >>> about 1 hour.  Recharging is while underway (at a slow rate) or more
> > >>> rapidly
> > >>> while plugged into shore power at the dock.  The performance is not
> > >>> great, but
> > >>> it is the cost that really puts this option out of the box.  The
> > >>> cost of the
> > >>> total system is about $7,000.00 US.  John Manza
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>> Public-list at alberg30.org
> > >>> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> > >>
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>
>
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