[Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
Gordon Laco
mainstay at csolve.net
Wed Mar 30 13:24:15 PST 2005
Yeah, but I still wish that Mr. Hanson had used the lead ballast and
fractional rig Mr. Alberg intended...
Gord #426
> You could just sail a cork and then you wouldn't have to worry. The Alberg
> is as about right as it gets. Common sense tells us to keep weigh out of the
> ends. Just accept the fact that you have bought the perfect boat and go
> sailing instead of trying to re-design her.
>
>
>
> Mike Lehman
> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Roger L Kingsland" <rkingsland101 at ksba.com>
> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at alberg30.org>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:36:09 -0500
>
> Mike Lehman
> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> Wrote;
> "At least the forward water tank is not in the overhang of the boat."
>
> Roger replies;
>
> Mike,
>
> As the Budweiser ad says, "true."
>
> In a never ending quest to confuse myself (and learn just enough to be
> dangerous), I have been reading up on dynamic loading and discovered that,
> unlike static loads where the moment arm is weight times length (from center
> of buoyancy), the moment calculation for dynamic loads is weight times the
> length SQUARED. So, if the fore/aft center of buoyancy is 16' aft (pretty
> darn close to the middle of the boat), a full water tank (30 gal @ 7 lbs)
> has a dynamic moment arm of 210 lbs. times about 8.75 feet squared or a
> whopping 16,000 lbs. If a 25 lb propane tank is located all the way aft,
> the moment arm would still be about 5,000 pounds. This is a scary problem;
> so much so, I have decided to saw off 8 feet from each end of my boat, which
> means I now have to completely rethink the layout of the main cabin!
>
> While keeping the fore/aft weight near the middle is desirable to prevent
> "hobbyhorsing," it gets more confusing because the opposite seems true for
> transverse weight distribution. The dynamic stability (ability for boat to
> resist wind gusts, side wave impacts, roll going downwind) improves as the
> roll moment of inertia (weight times square of distance outboard from center
> of gravity) goes up. Of course, with our boats, it isn't possible to move
> weight outboard without moving it up which raises the center of buoyancy,
> which compromises the static stability, which confuses me even more, which
> makes me want to get back inside "the box" and take a nap after, of course,
> bolting the engine to one side of the boat amidships and the water tank to
> the other.
>
> Mike Meinhold, did I get any of this even close to right?
>
>
> Roger Kingsland
> Chief Boat Boy, Rubber/Scraper, Numbers Cruncher, Source of Confusion and
> Check Writer
> Alberg 30 #148, PERFECT intentions
> N40-33.92, W79-51.25
>
> "You don't have to think outside of the box, but it doesn't hurt to peek
> over the edge once in a while."
> Leonardo Da Vinci (or somebody like that)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Lehman" <sail_505 at hotmail.com>
> To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
>
>
>> At least the forward water tank is not in the overhang of the boat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Lehman
>> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----Original Message Follows----
>> From: "Roger L Kingsland" <rkingsland101 at ksba.com>
>> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at alberg30.org>
>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:32:41 -0500
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I agree with you on the weight thing and got an aluminum anchor (has
> anyone
>> heard of/used aluminum chain?) and plan to abandon the forward water tank
>> for the same reasons. I also kicked around the idea of a fuel tank
> (diesel)
>> under the aft portion of the main cabin sole (double benefit of moving
>> weight toward the center and getting it lower) but that got poo pooed big
>> time so I stuck it under the cockpit sole.
>>
>> To my mind, best reason not to do gas is the kaboom thing. Why blow up,
>> when there are so many other ways for the amateur sailor (especially this
>> one) to mess up.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>> From: "Mike Lehman" <sail_505 at hotmail.com>
>> To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
>>
>>
>>> This would work. You would need to keep it sealed and separate from
> the
>>> locker, which I believe you plan to do. Having said that, I would not
>>> consider this as a project on my boat eventhough I enjoy cooking on a
> hot
>>> stove. IMHO, it would adversly affect the performance of the boat by
>> placing
>>> that much weight in the overhang (unsupported) portion of the boat.
> This
>>> would be like having someone standing on the aft deck while sailing
> and
>>> place to much weight on the ends of the boat, exactly the position
>> inwhich
>>> you are trying to keep lightweight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Lehman
>>> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----Original Message Follows----
>>> From: "Roger L Kingsland" <rkingsland101 at ksba.com>
>>> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at alberg30.org>
>>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
>>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:35:43 -0500
>>>
>>> Andy,
>>>
>>> I had a crazy idea for propane storage that goes something like this;
>>> - get (or make) a FG cylinder with an inside diameter equal or bigger
>> than
>>> access port mentioned below;
>>> - fit it inside the lazarette locker (outboard on the side opposite
>> engine
>>> exhaust) running fore/aft with the aft end a few inches lower than the
>>> forward end lower (might have to cut it crosswise);
>>> - fiberglass it to the locker sides at the bulkhead under the traveler
>> and
>>> at the transom
>>> - pressure test the FG install;
>>> - cut ventilation hole(s) through transom at low point of the
> cylinder;
>>> - cut circle and install access port in traveler bulkhead through
> which
>> tank
>>> will be installed (from cockpit);
>>> - run all those hoses, switches, regulators etc.;
>>> - to fasten tank in cylinder, place wood "skids" at third points with
> top
>>> one wedge shaped and removable (will probably need to cut off mounting
>>> brackets on horizontal propane tank);
>>> - if you are a gourmet cook (or love hot showers), do it again on the
>> other
>>> side of the lazarette and have a back up tank (need to check if there
> are
>>> any regs. RE distance from propane vent and engine exhaust, could be a
>>> "kaboom" problem).
>>>
>>> The idea is to separate a portion of the lazarette from the hull and
>>> ventilate it directly to the outside. Of course, the idea only works
> if
>> the
>>> FG cylinder inside the lazarette remains air tight and I don't know if
>> hull
>>> flex will degrade the connection between the cylinder and
>> bulkhead/transom.
>>> Perhaps use a FG cylinder thin enough to flex with the hull?
>>>
>>> Oh great sages of Albergdom, please opine. Any merit, or just another
>> Krazy
>>> Kingsland Kaper.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> Roger Kingsland
>>> Chief Boat Boy, Rubber/Scraper, Thinker of Odd Ideas and Check Writer
>>> Alberg 30 #148, PERFECT intentions
>>> N40-33.92, W79-51.25
>>>
>>> "You don't have to think outside of the box, but it doesn't hurt to
> peek
>>> over the edge once in a while."
>>> Leonardo Da Vinci (or somebody like that)
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Andrew M Shaw" <andymshaw at juno.com>
>>> To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gordon,
>>>> I'll run down to the boat and take a look for you.
>> Wanted
>>>> to see about placement of my new propane tank anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:24:01 -0500 Gordon Laco
> <mainstay at csolve.net>
>>>> writes:
>>>>> No problem - but I will back on mine before then - I was hoping
> to
>>>>> order a
>>>>> new traveller today so that it would come before I went away.
> Can't
>>>>> wait to
>>>>> get on the water. We took the cover off on Friday, a sure way to
>>>>> make it
>>>>> snow one more time!
>>>>>
>>>>> Gord
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gord,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you sir. If you can hold off until the end of the week.
> It
>>>>> is raining
>>>>>> here, better than snow off course. We will be working on the
> boat
>>>>> at that
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
>>>>>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon
>>>>> Laco
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:18 PM
>>>>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi there -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's an easy one... 14' aft, 12' forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now will you tell me how long my traveller is? ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gord,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Question, what was the draft on the ship used in Master and
>>>>> Commander?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>
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