[Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
Roger L Kingsland
rkingsland101 at ksba.com
Wed Mar 30 13:33:54 PST 2005
Yeah, but I still wish that Mr. Hanson had used the lead ballast and
fractional rig Mr. Alberg intended... Yeah, and the sauna and hot tub!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> Yeah, but I still wish that Mr. Hanson had used the lead ballast and
> fractional rig Mr. Alberg intended...
>
> Gord #426
>
>
>
>
> > You could just sail a cork and then you wouldn't have to worry. The
Alberg
> > is as about right as it gets. Common sense tells us to keep weigh out of
the
> > ends. Just accept the fact that you have bought the perfect boat and go
> > sailing instead of trying to re-design her.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Lehman
> > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Roger L Kingsland" <rkingsland101 at ksba.com>
> > Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at alberg30.org>
> > To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:36:09 -0500
> >
> > Mike Lehman
> > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> > Wrote;
> > "At least the forward water tank is not in the overhang of the boat."
> >
> > Roger replies;
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > As the Budweiser ad says, "true."
> >
> > In a never ending quest to confuse myself (and learn just enough to be
> > dangerous), I have been reading up on dynamic loading and discovered
that,
> > unlike static loads where the moment arm is weight times length (from
center
> > of buoyancy), the moment calculation for dynamic loads is weight times
the
> > length SQUARED. So, if the fore/aft center of buoyancy is 16' aft
(pretty
> > darn close to the middle of the boat), a full water tank (30 gal @ 7
lbs)
> > has a dynamic moment arm of 210 lbs. times about 8.75 feet squared or a
> > whopping 16,000 lbs. If a 25 lb propane tank is located all the way
aft,
> > the moment arm would still be about 5,000 pounds. This is a scary
problem;
> > so much so, I have decided to saw off 8 feet from each end of my boat,
which
> > means I now have to completely rethink the layout of the main cabin!
> >
> > While keeping the fore/aft weight near the middle is desirable to
prevent
> > "hobbyhorsing," it gets more confusing because the opposite seems true
for
> > transverse weight distribution. The dynamic stability (ability for boat
to
> > resist wind gusts, side wave impacts, roll going downwind) improves as
the
> > roll moment of inertia (weight times square of distance outboard from
center
> > of gravity) goes up. Of course, with our boats, it isn't possible to
move
> > weight outboard without moving it up which raises the center of
buoyancy,
> > which compromises the static stability, which confuses me even more,
which
> > makes me want to get back inside "the box" and take a nap after, of
course,
> > bolting the engine to one side of the boat amidships and the water tank
to
> > the other.
> >
> > Mike Meinhold, did I get any of this even close to right?
> >
> >
> > Roger Kingsland
> > Chief Boat Boy, Rubber/Scraper, Numbers Cruncher, Source of Confusion
and
> > Check Writer
> > Alberg 30 #148, PERFECT intentions
> > N40-33.92, W79-51.25
> >
> > "You don't have to think outside of the box, but it doesn't hurt to peek
> > over the edge once in a while."
> > Leonardo Da Vinci (or somebody like that)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Lehman" <sail_505 at hotmail.com>
> > To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> >
> >
> >> At least the forward water tank is not in the overhang of the boat.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Lehman
> >> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----Original Message Follows----
> >> From: "Roger L Kingsland" <rkingsland101 at ksba.com>
> >> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> >> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:32:41 -0500
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> I agree with you on the weight thing and got an aluminum anchor (has
> > anyone
> >> heard of/used aluminum chain?) and plan to abandon the forward water
tank
> >> for the same reasons. I also kicked around the idea of a fuel tank
> > (diesel)
> >> under the aft portion of the main cabin sole (double benefit of moving
> >> weight toward the center and getting it lower) but that got poo pooed
big
> >> time so I stuck it under the cockpit sole.
> >>
> >> To my mind, best reason not to do gas is the kaboom thing. Why blow
up,
> >> when there are so many other ways for the amateur sailor (especially
this
> >> one) to mess up.
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >>
> >> From: "Mike Lehman" <sail_505 at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:01 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> >>
> >>
> >>> This would work. You would need to keep it sealed and separate from
> > the
> >>> locker, which I believe you plan to do. Having said that, I would not
> >>> consider this as a project on my boat eventhough I enjoy cooking on a
> > hot
> >>> stove. IMHO, it would adversly affect the performance of the boat by
> >> placing
> >>> that much weight in the overhang (unsupported) portion of the boat.
> > This
> >>> would be like having someone standing on the aft deck while sailing
> > and
> >>> place to much weight on the ends of the boat, exactly the position
> >> inwhich
> >>> you are trying to keep lightweight.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mike Lehman
> >>> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----Original Message Follows----
> >>> From: "Roger L Kingsland" <rkingsland101 at ksba.com>
> >>> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> > <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...Propane Tank
> >>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:35:43 -0500
> >>>
> >>> Andy,
> >>>
> >>> I had a crazy idea for propane storage that goes something like this;
> >>> - get (or make) a FG cylinder with an inside diameter equal or bigger
> >> than
> >>> access port mentioned below;
> >>> - fit it inside the lazarette locker (outboard on the side opposite
> >> engine
> >>> exhaust) running fore/aft with the aft end a few inches lower than the
> >>> forward end lower (might have to cut it crosswise);
> >>> - fiberglass it to the locker sides at the bulkhead under the traveler
> >> and
> >>> at the transom
> >>> - pressure test the FG install;
> >>> - cut ventilation hole(s) through transom at low point of the
> > cylinder;
> >>> - cut circle and install access port in traveler bulkhead through
> > which
> >> tank
> >>> will be installed (from cockpit);
> >>> - run all those hoses, switches, regulators etc.;
> >>> - to fasten tank in cylinder, place wood "skids" at third points with
> > top
> >>> one wedge shaped and removable (will probably need to cut off mounting
> >>> brackets on horizontal propane tank);
> >>> - if you are a gourmet cook (or love hot showers), do it again on the
> >> other
> >>> side of the lazarette and have a back up tank (need to check if there
> > are
> >>> any regs. RE distance from propane vent and engine exhaust, could be a
> >>> "kaboom" problem).
> >>>
> >>> The idea is to separate a portion of the lazarette from the hull and
> >>> ventilate it directly to the outside. Of course, the idea only works
> > if
> >> the
> >>> FG cylinder inside the lazarette remains air tight and I don't know if
> >> hull
> >>> flex will degrade the connection between the cylinder and
> >> bulkhead/transom.
> >>> Perhaps use a FG cylinder thin enough to flex with the hull?
> >>>
> >>> Oh great sages of Albergdom, please opine. Any merit, or just another
> >> Krazy
> >>> Kingsland Kaper.
> >>>
> >>> All the best,
> >>>
> >>> Roger
> >>>
> >>> Roger Kingsland
> >>> Chief Boat Boy, Rubber/Scraper, Thinker of Odd Ideas and Check Writer
> >>> Alberg 30 #148, PERFECT intentions
> >>> N40-33.92, W79-51.25
> >>>
> >>> "You don't have to think outside of the box, but it doesn't hurt to
> > peek
> >>> over the edge once in a while."
> >>> Leonardo Da Vinci (or somebody like that)
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Andrew M Shaw" <andymshaw at juno.com>
> >>> To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:31 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Gordon,
> >>>> I'll run down to the boat and take a look for you.
> >> Wanted
> >>>> to see about placement of my new propane tank anyway.
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:24:01 -0500 Gordon Laco
> > <mainstay at csolve.net>
> >>>> writes:
> >>>>> No problem - but I will back on mine before then - I was hoping
> > to
> >>>>> order a
> >>>>> new traveller today so that it would come before I went away.
> > Can't
> >>>>> wait to
> >>>>> get on the water. We took the cover off on Friday, a sure way to
> >>>>> make it
> >>>>> snow one more time!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gord
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Gord,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you sir. If you can hold off until the end of the week.
> > It
> >>>>> is raining
> >>>>>> here, better than snow off course. We will be working on the
> > boat
> >>>>> at that
> >>>>>> time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Stephen
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
> >>>>>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon
> >>>>> Laco
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:18 PM
> >>>>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Travellers...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi there -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's an easy one... 14' aft, 12' forward.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Now will you tell me how long my traveller is? ;)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gord
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gord,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Question, what was the draft on the ship used in Master and
> >>>>> Commander?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Stephen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>> Public-list at alberg30.org
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> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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