[Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion

Fri Sep 30 06:33:55 PDT 2005

Mike,

Actually, the more I think about it, the 5o5 is really a great analogue for
our boats. The boat was originally designed in 1955 - before composite
construction was common. The boat was designed to be built of wood, and many
were homebuilt. 

Over the 50 years of its existence, the class has been a pioneer in adopting
technologies as they evolved. It was one of the first one-design classes to
allow cored construction, and many of the early cored boats are still raced
today though the hulls are 25 or more years old. Laminated sails and
high-performance fabrics/cordage are allowed. Carbon spars have been voted
down twice by the membership. The class rules are definitely alive and
sometimes they change. 4 years ago, the class voted to lengthen the luff of
the spinnaker from 5m to 6m. This was a HUGE change, greeted with
trepidation by many, but which ultimately has turned out to be a tremendous
win for the class. The boats are a lot more fun to sail, and once members
made the modification (which was pretty cheap and easy), there was still a
pretty level playing field. Everybody was able to use the same masts they
had already been using. 

Anyway, as construction techniques evolved, the 5o5 class rules have evolved
to continue to allow new and old boats to compete against each other on a
relatively level field, and this is clearly working. Ali Meller and Jesse
Falsone won the 2004 East Coast Championship (33 boats competing) in a boat
which also won the 1980 North Americans and got second in the 1981 worlds!!!

The fact of the matter is that nowadays the boats can be built MUCH lighter
for the same strength than they could in 1955. I guess in a way, this is the
same problem we are having right now. 

The nice analogue between the 5o5 class and the A30 class is that the
designs are traditional, and the members are experienced. This means that
changes tend to come slowly, and the racing stays fairly level. These
classes have both demonstrated a track record of extremely strong staying
power over the years, in the face of competition from many other kinds of
boats, many of which have come, flourished, and disappeared while the 5o5
and the Alberg 30 classes have remained constantly alive. 

So I applaud your effort to pay attention to the rules such that they allow
owners to keep their boats current, while also ensuring that the playing
field remains level. We can talk more over a frosty cold beverage on
Saturday!

Tally-ho! 

JB

-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
[mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Mike Lehman
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:17 AM
To: public-list at alberg30.org
Subject: RE: [Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion

Okay - a few beers to catch up sounds like a great idea. We had a similar 
issue to that of the 505s with the original A30s. I don't know all of the 
details, but it was determined that the original boats were lighter and to 
compete fairly were required to add ballast to comply with the 'one-design' 
rules.

Mike Lehman
~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~

----Original Message Follows----
From: "J Bergquist" <JOHN.R.BERGQUIST at saic.com>
Reply-To: j at ship.saic.com,Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all 
<public-list at alberg30.org>
To: "'Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all'" <public-list at alberg30.org>
Subject: RE: [Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:00:34 -0400

Mike-

Great. Thanks for the effort to clarify the rules. That would be great.

 >From my perspective, it would seem like a reasonable thing to install
equivalent corrector weight which would bring the boat back to the same
displacement as other boats. For example, I could install additional
batteries.

This is a fairly standard practice in other one-design fleets. For example,
5o5's can be built with modern construction techniques such that they are 20
KG or more underweight (the boat only weighs 128 kg total). That's almost
20% of the total boat weight. This is allowed under the class rules, but
offending boats must install lead corrector weights at specified locations
to compensate for the fact that their boats are lighter. To me, this seems
like a reasonable solution. And generally, I am a fan of allowing people the
freedom to do what they want with their boats, so long as a level playing
field is maintained.

I plan to be at the rendezvous on Saturday, so we could discuss this issue
there if you want.

Then again, maybe we should just have a few beers and catch up since I
haven't seen you since the O's game last year!

Or maybe you can convince me of what kind of diesel I should install...

;-)

Kind regards,

J

-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
[mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Mike Lehman
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:22 AM
To: public-list at alberg30.org
Subject: RE: [Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion

J

I am on the rules committee. There isn't, as far as I know, a hard -and-fast

rule regarding engines specifically. I will call a meeting of the rules
committee so we can discuss the matter and see if we can come to s a
resolution and perhaps an amendment to the rules which will cover this
subject clearly. The membership, at the annual dinner in January, has to
vote on any bylaw or rules changes.

Mike Lehman
~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~

----Original Message Follows----
From: "J Bergquist" <JOHN.R.BERGQUIST at saic.com>
Reply-To: j at ship.saic.com,Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at alberg30.org>
To: "'Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all'" <public-list at alberg30.org>
Subject: RE: [Public-list] re:  "let me race?"was another outboard
discussion
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:52:00 -0400

Michael-

Wait a minute, this is not a fair answer. I am asking the question IN
ADVANCE of making any changes to my boat. I would expect the class
association (or any individual) to return the favor and give me an answer IN
ADVANCE about the class rules rather than wait until AFTER I start racing.

This answer below would be analogous to me walking into the police station
and enquiring about the speed limit. If the response was "well, it's not
actually documented in terms of hard numbers, but don't be surprised if we
slap you with a $150 fine if you go too fast." That would be like what
you're saying below.

I am being open and honest about asking questions about how changing my boat
will affect my ability to race one design. I feel that the reasonable thing
for the association to do would be to give me an answer which will stick
after I start racing. Changing the rules after the game begins is definitely
not sportsmanlike!

I don't think your e-mail below is meant to represent the association.
Nevertheless, I think that it's only fair to expect an advance answer to my
question. Because otherwise, I might find out after I've spent a pile of
money that I can't race my boat. Now that would be a major disappointment!

J

-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
[mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of
dickdurk at atlanticbb.net
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:22 PM
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Subject: Re: [Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion

  >What is the wisdom of the "old salts"?

Don't know about that "old salt" business, I say; race
away, but if you start winning, expect protest.

Part Two-Rules And Regulations
    Section 18 Standard equipment shall include all
equipment normally supplied with the standard A-30 as of
Nov. 1. 1964...
and
    Section 4 All hulls shall conform to the design and
specification of the A-30 built by the Whitby Boat Works
and shall remain unchanged so as to preserve the
one-design aspect of the Class....
and
    Section 3 ...The Rules Committee shall have the
    power to declare a boat ineligible.

Was it Mark Twain who said; "Regulations are the refuge of
scoundrels"? :)

Michael Grosh
#220

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