[Public-list] Public-list Digest, Vol 633, Issue 2

Tue Apr 4 14:07:08 PDT 2006

Oh:trail a thousand feet of line then!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
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To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Public-list Digest, Vol 633, Issue 2


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Boarding ladders & engine lifting (Gordon Laco)
>    2. Corrections!! (Gordon Laco)
>    3. Re: overboard (Rod  Symmes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 09:43:39 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Boarding ladders & engine lifting
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Message-ID: <C057F04B.9486%mainstay at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> I would agree with Mike -
>
> If the halyard is attached at the same point on the boom as the engine
> lifting tackle - the load is transited nicely to the masthead casting
where
> it is borne as compression (the slight forward vector being opposed by the
> forestay).  The rig is immensely strong in compression.   In this
structure
> the boom is loaded mainly in compression as well, which it and the
gooseneck
> withstand well.
>
> Set it up carefully, then stand back and think about it before lifting!  I
> would judge the weak component would be the halyard and its shackle.
>
> Gord #426
>
>
>
>
>
> > David,
> >
> > That's how we've been removing engines from the Alberg for a long time.
You
> > can use the boom to lift the engine and swing it over the side. You
should
> > attach a halyard to the boom at the same point as you attach the
come-a-long
> > so you do not bend the boom in halh. The attachement point is right over
the
> > main companionway and you can lower the come-a-long right down to the
engine
> > a pick it up that way. It will want to swing forward a bit to clear the
> > bridge deck.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Lehman
> > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "David Parkes" <davidparkes at ns.aliantzinc.ca>
> > Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at alberg30.org>
> > To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> > Subject: [Public-list] Boarding ladders & engine lifting
> > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:30:38 -0300
> >
> > Changing the topic slightly, would it be possible to use the technique
> > described below (the boom and sheet can be transformed into a lifting
> > derrick) to lift the Atomic 4 engine out of the cabin and land it over
the
> > side?
> > David Parkes
> > Sapphira #417
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
> > To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Public-list] Boarding ladders
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Interesting points -
> >>
> >> Personally I would never try to pick up a MOB with a ladder in rough
> > seas.
> >> As Dan says, the plunging action of the boat would transform any firmly
> >> mounted device into a weapon.  Similarly, a temporarily mounted ladder
is
> >> both highly unlikely to remain in place and also nearly impossible to
> >> mount
> >> if the boat is moving.
> >>
> >> Our rescue drill counts the stern mounted ladder as a card to play only
> > in
> >> flat water.  In a seaway our plan is to heave to to weather of the
> > rescuee
> >> and make the pick up amidships or toward the cockpit. Either way we
have
> > a
> >> Life Sling ready to bring the person alongside.   I have had to do this
> >> once
> >> (without Life Sling, but was successful so it has become one of my
> >> favourite
> >> funny stories; I call it the Mermaid Story; you have to come aboard
> >> Surprise
> >> to hear it).
> >>
> >> We have our mainsheet landed on the traveller with a large snap shackle
> > so
> >> that at a moments notice the boom and sheet can be transformed into a
> >> lifting derrick.   We practice as a family once a year (only once
because
> >> I
> >> think we are good at it)
> >>
> >> Really hope never to use it but wouldn't it be horrible to have
somebody
> >> in
> >> the oggin and be trying things out for the first time?
> >>
> >> Gord #426 Surprise
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Re: Boarding ladders
> >>> Hello A-30 people,
> >>>
> >>> There's an article in a recent practical Sailor magazine about MOB
> >>> rescue maneuvers, and they also compare boarding ladders for rescue
> >>> effectiveness. As I recall, windward, as it were, metal legs and pegs
> >>> could be spears, transom platforms and steps in a seaway were
"hammers"
> >>> and flexible ones without weights were useless on curvey hulls...
> >>> (Liffeslings still get the top rating, and they integrate a harness.)
> >>> The steel and plastic ladder I have is a pain at best.
> >>>
> >>> How about something removable with hardware? Maybe hang the ladder on
> >>> the toe rail with bent sheet metal, padding and pins (fore mid and aft
> >>> locations), and clip it to the lifelines for a backup? If the rails
can
> >>> take the load, it's a cheaper alternative to adding any structure to
> >>> support a ladder aft, just be careful with it far aft. Different metal
> >>> piece for aft rail. Anyway, might work, or not, but no time for a
> >>> project right now...
> >>>
> >>> --Dan S.
> >>> Watcher of the Skies #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY
> >>> dans at stmktg.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> These businesses support your Association:
> >>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >>> Please support them.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Public-list mailing list
> >>> Public-list at alberg30.org
> >>> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> These businesses support your Association:
> >> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> Please support them.
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
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> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
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> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 09:59:23 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> Subject: [Public-list] Corrections!!
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Message-ID: <C057F3FB.948D%mainstay at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Mmmmm - hate fast typing and brainless spell checking, bad combination...
>
> What I meant was:
>
> The load is TRANSMITTED not transited.
>
> And the vector is AFT, not forward.
>
> Those corrections make the message below make more sense!
>
> Gord #426
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I would agree with Mike -
> >
> > If the halyard is attached at the same point on the boom as the engine
> > lifting tackle - the load is transited nicely to the masthead casting
where
> > it is borne as compression (the slight forward vector being opposed by
the
> > forestay).  The rig is immensely strong in compression.   In this
structure
> > the boom is loaded mainly in compression as well, which it and the
gooseneck
> > withstand well.
> >
> > Set it up carefully, then stand back and think about it before lifting!
I
> > would judge the weak component would be the halyard and its shackle.
> >
> > Gord #426
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> David,
> >>
> >> That's how we've been removing engines from the Alberg for a long time.
You
> >> can use the boom to lift the engine and swing it over the side. You
should
> >> attach a halyard to the boom at the same point as you attach the
come-a-long
> >> so you do not bend the boom in halh. The attachement point is right
over the
> >> main companionway and you can lower the come-a-long right down to the
engine
> >> a pick it up that way. It will want to swing forward a bit to clear the
> >> bridge deck.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Lehman
> >> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----Original Message Follows----
> >> From: "David Parkes" <davidparkes at ns.aliantzinc.ca>
> >> Reply-To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> Subject: [Public-list] Boarding ladders & engine lifting
> >> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:30:38 -0300
> >>
> >> Changing the topic slightly, would it be possible to use the technique
> >> described below (the boom and sheet can be transformed into a lifting
> >> derrick) to lift the Atomic 4 engine out of the cabin and land it over
the
> >> side?
> >> David Parkes
> >> Sapphira #417
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
> >> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:43 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Boarding ladders
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Interesting points -
> >>>
> >>> Personally I would never try to pick up a MOB with a ladder in rough
> >> seas.
> >>> As Dan says, the plunging action of the boat would transform any
firmly
> >>> mounted device into a weapon.  Similarly, a temporarily mounted ladder
is
> >>> both highly unlikely to remain in place and also nearly impossible to
> >>> mount
> >>> if the boat is moving.
> >>>
> >>> Our rescue drill counts the stern mounted ladder as a card to play
only
> >> in
> >>> flat water.  In a seaway our plan is to heave to to weather of the
> >> rescuee
> >>> and make the pick up amidships or toward the cockpit. Either way we
have
> >> a
> >>> Life Sling ready to bring the person alongside.   I have had to do
this
> >>> once
> >>> (without Life Sling, but was successful so it has become one of my
> >>> favourite
> >>> funny stories; I call it the Mermaid Story; you have to come aboard
> >>> Surprise
> >>> to hear it).
> >>>
> >>> We have our mainsheet landed on the traveller with a large snap
shackle
> >> so
> >>> that at a moments notice the boom and sheet can be transformed into a
> >>> lifting derrick.   We practice as a family once a year (only once
because
> >>> I
> >>> think we are good at it)
> >>>
> >>> Really hope never to use it but wouldn't it be horrible to have
somebody
> >>> in
> >>> the oggin and be trying things out for the first time?
> >>>
> >>> Gord #426 Surprise
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Re: Boarding ladders
> >>>> Hello A-30 people,
> >>>>
> >>>> There's an article in a recent practical Sailor magazine about MOB
> >>>> rescue maneuvers, and they also compare boarding ladders for rescue
> >>>> effectiveness. As I recall, windward, as it were, metal legs and pegs
> >>>> could be spears, transom platforms and steps in a seaway were
"hammers"
> >>>> and flexible ones without weights were useless on curvey hulls...
> >>>> (Liffeslings still get the top rating, and they integrate a harness.)
> >>>> The steel and plastic ladder I have is a pain at best.
> >>>>
> >>>> How about something removable with hardware? Maybe hang the ladder on
> >>>> the toe rail with bent sheet metal, padding and pins (fore mid and
aft
> >>>> locations), and clip it to the lifelines for a backup? If the rails
can
> >>>> take the load, it's a cheaper alternative to adding any structure to
> >>>> support a ladder aft, just be careful with it far aft. Different
metal
> >>>> piece for aft rail. Anyway, might work, or not, but no time for a
> >>>> project right now...
> >>>>
> >>>> --Dan S.
> >>>> Watcher of the Skies #201, 1966, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, NY
> >>>> dans at stmktg.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> These businesses support your Association:
> >>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >>>> Please support them.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Public-list mailing list
> >>>> Public-list at alberg30.org
> >>>> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> These businesses support your Association:
> >>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >>> Please support them.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Public-list mailing list
> >>> Public-list at alberg30.org
> >>> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> These businesses support your Association:
> >> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> Please support them.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Public-list mailing list
> >> Public-list at alberg30.org
> >> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> These businesses support your Association:
> >> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> Please support them.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Public-list mailing list
> >> Public-list at alberg30.org
> >> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-list mailing list
> > Public-list at alberg30.org
> > http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:11:40 -0400
> From: "Rod  Symmes" <harmony at aztec-net.com>
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] overboard
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Message-ID: <003501c657f1$b1dfb200$0100a8c0 at ROD>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I feel that all this talk of trailing lines is unrealistic.  25 or 30 feet
of line would give about 3 seconds for the person thrown into the water to
get to the surface, orient themselves and swim to the trailing line.  I
wouldn't want to bet my life on all of that happening.  Even if you did
manage to disconnect the autopilot from the tiller,  your boat will head to
windward but I bet it will not stop.  If you are now swimming, fully clothed
and hopefully with a now inflated PFD,  I don't think you will ever catch
your boat.
>     I think what we need to concentrate on is going on deck with a tether
that will not let us get overboard should we fall  -  get in the habit of
using it  -  then put all these unpleasant thoughts to rest and just enjoy
the sailing.
>
> Cheers,    Rod
>
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: dick fillinich
>   To: public-list at alberg30.org
>   Sent: Thursday, January 02, 1997 3:57 AM
>   Subject: [Public-list] overboard
>
>
>   In the case of tiller steering,rig a ring or small pulley to aft stay
above tiller,run small line through loop and attach to auto pilot steering
rod,let 25or30 feet of line trail behind boat,with knots at end of line.If
you find yourself oveerboard make way to stern and yank on line pulling
steering rod off tiller.Boat will stop course it was on and youy can climb
back on board.
>
>   Wind Dancer #191 Galliano La.
>   _______________________________________________
>   These businesses support your Association:
>   http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   Please support them.
>   _______________________________________________
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>   Public-list at alberg30.org
>   http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>
>
> End of Public-list Digest, Vol 633, Issue 2
> *******************************************


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