[Public-list] Lazyjacks

John Birch Sunstone at cogeco.ca
Sun Jan 8 16:38:45 PST 2006 

I have found with our full batten made new in '95 that it was much closer 
winded than not only its predecessor but many other boats with new mains - 
it was a fairly flat cut with about 2 -2.5 inches shelf. I think, and have 
been told by the sailmaker that going with full battens right off the mark 
with a new sail will help hold the shape longer - with my North sail gauge 
(no it's not a North sail) I find the draft is between 40 to 45 % even now 
and can easily be moved forward with minimal effort or sail distortion. 
Still close winded and a blast to sail - she cleaned up in our club open 
this year on boat speed and corrected out to a 2nd overall - so not bad as I 
forgot to drop the traveller all the way when it hit 15.

Boat goes well, owner - well the jury is still out ; )

Cheers,
John

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jay Davenport" <jay at saildriver.com>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-list] Lazyjacks


> You could be right Gord. This is the first new mainsail I have had on 
> Revolution. But I think there is more to it than that. When I sail very 
> close to the wind with the new full batten sail, it never loses shape 
> until I am almost head to wind. My old sail would begin luffing much 
> earlier. As a result, when I am motor sailing into the wind, which I don't 
> find to be an unusual circumstance on the Chesapeake, my mainsail is 
> filled, shaped, and rarely luffing. I am very happy with it.
>
>  Jay
>
> Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
>  I think that is true only when comparing an old regular main with a new 
> or
> newly battened main. A main with 'traditional' battens should perform
> better over a wider range of conditions and last longer.
>
> Gord 426
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> One of the big advantages is that I can sail closer to the wind without 
>> losing
>> power in the main.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Gordon Laco wrote:
>> What advantages do full battens give you?
>>
>> Gord #426
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Revolution, I have lazy jacks, a full battened sail (actually 3 full 
>>> & 1
>>> partial battens), and the Strong mainsail slide system. Overall I am 
>>> very
>>> happy with it.
>>>
>>> My original lazy jacks were Harken, but I disliked how they were 
>>> engineered
>>> (attached at the mast, adjusted on the boom), so I replaced them with 
>>> home
>>> made. It was a significant improvement, but lazy jacks of any kind have
>>> disadvantages. At some point, I am going to try the Dutchman system Bob 
>>> Kirk
>>> mentioned. I have heard good things about them, and I particularly like 
>>> the
>>> idea that they don't have to be stowed and they don't interfere with 
>>> raising
>>> the sail.
>>>
>>> The full battened sail was a good move, with no downsides as long as you 
>>> have
>>> articulated batten pockets on the sail.
>>>
>>> The Strong mainsail slide and articulated batten pocket system is
>>> outstanding.
>>> The sail raises easier from the cockpit, and it drops like an elevator 
>>> when
>>> the halyard is released. I find that very important when single-handing.
>>>
>>> Jay Davenport
>>> Revolution, A30 #526
>>>
>>> Gordon Laco wrote:
>>> Cool - should be no problem then. You may be able to do away with the 
>>> lazy
>>> jacks.
>>>
>>> Gord #426 Surprise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> They do - Schaeffer thinks of everything. The weee lazyjack blocks are 
>>>> Hoit
>>>> Allen's by the way
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gordon Laco"
>>>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
>>>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 11:07 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Lazyjacks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Ah - batten cars! they may be a problem unless they allow the batten 
>>>>> to
>>>>> roll on a ball joint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gord
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would have thought full battens would be twisted into pretzels 
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> mine are on Schaeffer slide cars. Since it works for you I will have 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> try
>>>>>> it - would be nice to get away from the lazy strings. By the way I 
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> small
>>>>>> Laser plastic dinghy blocks on the lasyjacks - got a great deal on 
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Kingston Ontario during CORK a few years back - normally $9 each, I 
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> for $1.50 have 3 per side - no wear on the sail, they weigh boo all 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> really help align the jacks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe your system will work for me - then I can redeploy them to
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> else - spinnaker blocks for an A-37 perhaps ; )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Gord.
>>>>>> As always,
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Gordon Laco"
>>>>>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Lazyjacks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting Gord - does it work with full battens?
>>>>>>>> Thx.
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Gordon Laco"
>>>>>>>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:41 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Lazyjacks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi there -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rather than lazy jacks, we use a technique to control the mains'l 
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> single or short handed that goes as follows...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When ready to dump the main, we ease the halyard while hauling in 
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> clew line of the first reef. We don't snug it tight, just enough 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> trough of the bunt of the sail up to the first reef. It is then
>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>> to let the rest of the main fall (with some help pulling on the 
>>>>>>>>> luff)
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>> the trough. To help guide the sail in, when standing at the 
>>>>>>>>> halyard
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> mast you grab the tack end of the first reef as it goes by and 
>>>>>>>>> hold it
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> opening the trough and giving it a toss now and again to flip the 
>>>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>>>> in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When it is all down, you can roll the sail onto the top of the 
>>>>>>>>> boom.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> trough is held up at the outboard end by the reef line - the 
>>>>>>>>> effect is
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you have a guy there holding it while you get the inboard gaskets 
>>>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>>> Another good thing is that the roll you end up with has a smooth 
>>>>>>>>> skin
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> sail over it - looks nice and there is nothing for the wind to 
>>>>>>>>> pluck
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you are doing this at sea in bad weather.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't forget to ease the reef line after the gaskets are all
>>>>>>>>> on...other
>>>>>>>>> wise
>>>>>>>>> you will forget it is snugged up a little and when you go to raise 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>> again you will wonder why it won't go up...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When sailing with a full crew, instead of using the reef line we 
>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> person to grasp the bight of the reef line were it doubles on 
>>>>>>>>> itself
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> reef grommet and pull toward the end of the boom, just like the
>>>>>>>>> reefing
>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>> would. That makes the trough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That system works just as well as lazy jacks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers - Gord (can't wait for spring!) #426 Suprise
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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