[Public-list] #2

Thu Oct 12 06:47:56 PDT 2006

John-

though I am no expert keelboat sailor, it is my understanding that headsails
are generally referred to as I mentioned... #1, #2, #3, etc. I think this is
pretty common practice.

But they are also referred to using percentage numbers. The percentage is
the ratio of the luff perpendicular (shortest distance between sail clew and
luff line) divided by the boat's 'J' dimension (distance from mast to bow)
which on our boats is 10.5' as far as I know. If htis is already obvious and
known to you, I apologize. I only learned how to calculate percentage
yesterday (fortunately I have friends who know a lot more about this stuff
than I do so they can teach me...)

However, the percentage number is only a geometry measurement and says
nothing about the weight of the cloth. On some racing boats, they carry a
light #1 made of very light cloth (say 2.5 Oz or 3 Oz) and a heavy #1 made
of heavier cloth (say 5 or 6 Oz). I don't know of any Alberg racers who do
this, but it's pretty common in bigger racing boats. I used to sail on a
J-35 in college that had light and heavy #1 sails. That boat actually had 2
#2 sails as well (light and heavy). And they had a #3 and a #4. I only saw
the #4 up once when it was blowing a FULL gale and the regatta had been
canceled for too much wind and we had to move the boat because the owner
needed it to be somewhere else. That #4 sail was about 10 or 12 Oz kevlar
weave (probably pretty much bombproof) and not much bigger than my
underwear. We saw boatspeeds over 12 knots reaching that day. Their annual
sail acquisition budget also exceeded my boat acquisition cost by at least a
factor of 2. I know that I can't afford anything like that kind of sail
budget. Right now I only have one headsail and I am scratching together my
pennies, nickels, and Susan B's to be able to afford the kit to build a 2nd
one.

Interesting that your 2nd sail (let's call it a #2) is 150%. I have heard
that in days of yore it was commong Alberg practice to have a 150% #2, but
that the current thinking is that the #2 should be 130 or 135%. Definitely
interested to hear thoughts from other folks on that.

Kind regards,

JB

On 10/12/06, John Boor <mahseer at kos.net> wrote:
>
> It is interesting that you use a number for different sail size.  For me I
> have no idea how big (small) your #2 is, I prefer to use a percentage of
> "J" to determine headsail size  these are my sails 170% light air genoa,
> 150% furling working sail, 100% heavy weather jib.
>
> John Boor
> MAHSEER #380
> >
> > Can you tell me rough dimensions, cloth weight, and wind range for your
> > #3?
> >
> > Also, what do people consider the correct wind range for using a #2?
> > Having
> > never had one, I have no real idea. I was thinking something like 18-25
> > knots. Is that about right? Speaking of wind ranges...my thought is as
> > follows:
> >
> > 0-12 full main, full #1.
> > 12-18 Full #1, reefed main
> > 18-22 #2, Full main
> > 23-28 #2, Reefed main
> > Over 28, #3, reefed main.
> >
> > thoughts? Does that sound about right? Again, sorry if these are dumb
> > questions. I am not a very experienced keelboat sailor... Not used to
> > having
> > 3 different headsails.
> >
> > J
> >
> > On 10/12/06, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Good morning -
> >>
> >> Shorter luffs were common in the 'old days' because of the good effect
> >> of
> >> lowering the centre of area on stability.  Today people tend to like
> >> longer
> >> luffs because it is felt narrow sails perform better upwind.  Both are
> >> right
> >> ... but I went long luff for my sail.
> >>
> >> The seam pattern is called 'mitre cut' and until somewhat recently was
> >> the
> >> normal way to set up the seam patterns of a sail.  It is not in fashion
> >> now
> >> but it did allow the sailmaker to build very subtle shapes in a
> >> sail...but
> >> was more work.  You generally don't see them anymore.
> >>
> >> I believe in going one weight up from what the sailmaker recommends for
> >> a
> >> particular sail... It will cost you a little more but you will end up
> >> with
> >> a
> >> good strong sail that will keep its shape longer.  I did not do this
> >> with
> >> my
> >> 140 genny, but did with the #3 and will when I have a main built
> >> (hopefully
> >> this winter).
> >>
> >> Cheers -
> >>
> >> Gord #426 Suprise
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Past Association Commodore Bob Kirk was kind enough to give me his
> old
> >> #2. I
> >> > measured it last night with a friend in the middle of my street and
> >> the
> >> > dimensions I found are as follows:
> >> >
> >> > Luff 31'4" with a 3'4" wire pendant at the top
> >> > Foot 14' 11.5"
> >> > Leech 30' 4"
> >> > LP 14' 2.25" (this makes it a 135% sail)
> >> > Height of LP 4' 8.75"
> >> >
> >> > This sail was very old and I did not have tackle to stretch it really
> >> hard,
> >> > so we were just doing that by hand on my driveway. It says 'Ulmer"
> >> which
> >> > apparently is UK before they were UK.
> >> >
> >> > There is a lot of leech hollow.
> >> >
> >> > I was surprised at the short luff. This seems strange to me for a #2.
> >> I
> >> > expected the sail to be full hoist (luff dimension of at least 34
> ft).
> >> I
> >> > would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on these
> measurements
> >> -
> >> > whether they are good numbers to shoot for, or whether they are too
> >> big
> >> or
> >> > too small (particularly LP, foot dimension, and luff length).
> >> >
> >> > There was kind of a strange seaming pattern. One seam ran from clew
> to
> >> luff,
> >> > ending a few feet above LP. Below this seam, panel seams ran
> >> vertically
> >> > (more or less parallel to the luff). Above this seam, panel seams
> were
> >> cross
> >> > cut (more or less parallel to the foot).
> >> >
> >> > I have gotten concrete sail quotes from UK, North, and Sail Rite. The
> >> Sail
> >> > Rite guy assures me that if I build one of his sails it will be just
> >> as
> >> good
> >> > as a brand name sail. My thought is not only will I save some money,
> >> but
> >> I
> >> > will also get to learn how to do canvaswork which would enable me to
> >> do
> >> my
> >> > own sail, cover, and upholstery repairs in the future.
> >> >
> >> > All the quotes seem to be built around cloth weight of 6.5 Oz to 7
> Oz.
> >> Any
> >> > thoughts on that?
> >> >
> >> > I appreciate y'alls patience and input on this. Sorry to be so dense.
> >> I
> >> just
> >> > want to be an informed customer rather than just asking the sailmaker
> >> to
> >> > figure everythign out for me. Since I am kind of an idiot when it
> >> comes
> >> to
> >> > sailmaking, I am probably asking things that some of you think are
> >> silly.
> >> > Again, preciate your patience.
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards,
> >> >
> >> > J Bergquist
> >> > _______________________________________________
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