[Public-list] #2

J Bergquist jbergqui at gmail.com
Thu Oct 12 07:15:53 PDT 2006


John-

Again, thanks. Again, very helpful.

I have no plans to PHRF. I hate PHRF, and I'm spoiled because in Annapolis
we have enough Albergs to do OD. Currently not planning on building a #1
either until after I am done with the #2 project. But these #'s are helpful
nevertheless.

And no plans for light #1 either. I was just using it as an illustrative
example of why I refer to sails using #'s instead of percentages (common
practice from past experience).

For One Design class rules, I looked at:

http://www.alberg30.org/Assoc/Racing/sails.html

But no Luff Perpendicular (LP) numbers are provided there. Can someone tell
me what is the upper limit on LP?

Also they specify for both #1 and #2 jibs that cloth must be between 5 and
6.5 oz for both sails. Is that a real rule? Because if so, then a 7 Oz sail
would not be allowed as One Design, which would be a bit strange, I think.

Ciao,

JB

On 10/12/06, John Birch <Sunstone at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
> Yer welcome, these numbers have worked for me - I wouldn't waste money on
> an
> ultra light # 1 because sooner or later you will have it up when the wind
> exceeds its range. As for bomb proof kevlar - it is bomb proof until it
> explodes ; ) Usually nothing left but the luff tapes - kinda impressive
> watching $1000s of dollars blowing down the race course - always glad its
> not my 1000s ; )
>
> Sails - if you are going to PHRF race (to avoid unnecessary additional
> time
> penalties on max sail size), suggest building them to the following
> 161.5-162% = #1 (deck sweeper, clew no higher than lower to halfway
> between
> lower and top lifeline, 130-135% = # 2, clew to top lifeline - 6" above ,
> 105% = # 3  12-18" above lifeline - all full hoist. A 170% + isn't any
> faster and will cost you 6 seconds time allowance in most jurisdictions.
>
> Cheers,
> JB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Bergquist" <jbergqui at gmail.com>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] #2
>
>
> > John (birch this time)
> >
> > Thanks so much. this is really helpful. I had never figured out a method
> > to
> > determine backstay tension without bending the boat in this way. Very
> > cool.
> > Thanks!
> >
> > J
> >
> > On 10/12/06, John Birch <Sunstone at cogeco.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> Additional,
> >> Suggest telling sail make to account for 8-12" head stay sag, 12" more
> >> likely,  cut sail fairly flat, go either tri or bi radial. Suggest
> >> putting
> >> an adjustable backstay on. With adjustables suggest running a tight
> light
> >> line down the centre line from pushpit to pulpit, mark the mast where
> the
> >> line intersects the mast and then apply backstay tension until the line
> >> moves away from the mark. Then mark the backstay tensioner somehow with
> >> paint or marker or whatever because that is the maximum the backstay
> can
> >> be
> >> tensioned without bending the boat - adding more tension will achieve
> >> nothing except over stressing the boat.
> >>
> >> Your table:
> >> 0-14 full main, full #1.
> >> 15-18 Full #1, reefed main
> >> 18-22 #2, Full main - bladed out, max outhaul or first reef depending
> on
> >> weather helm - the latter might work better
> >> 23-28 #2, Double Reefed main
> >> Over 28, #3, reefed main.
> >>
> >> Just my 2 Cdn cents,
> >> Best of luck.
> >> Cheers,
> >> JB
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Birch" <Sunstone at cogeco.ca>
> >> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:15 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Public-list] #2
> >>
> >>
> >> > I'd go heavier on the cloth. 7oz min and full hoist with less hollow
> -
> >> > think
> >> > I'd want the clew at the top of the lifeline and no higher if racing.
> >> >
> >> > Just my thoughts.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "J Bergquist" <jbergqui at gmail.com>
> >> > To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at alberg30.org
> >;
> >> > "Alberg 30 Racing" <racing-list at alberg30.org>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:11 AM
> >> > Subject: [Public-list] #2
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Past Association Commodore Bob Kirk was kind enough to give me his
> old
> >> >> #2.
> >> >> I
> >> >> measured it last night with a friend in the middle of my street and
> >> >> the
> >> >> dimensions I found are as follows:
> >> >>
> >> >> Luff 31'4" with a 3'4" wire pendant at the top
> >> >> Foot 14' 11.5"
> >> >> Leech 30' 4"
> >> >> LP 14' 2.25" (this makes it a 135% sail)
> >> >> Height of LP 4' 8.75"
> >> >>
> >> >> This sail was very old and I did not have tackle to stretch it
> really
> >> >> hard,
> >> >> so we were just doing that by hand on my driveway. It says 'Ulmer"
> >> which
> >> >> apparently is UK before they were UK.
> >> >>
> >> >> There is a lot of leech hollow.
> >> >>
> >> >> I was surprised at the short luff. This seems strange to me for a
> #2.
> >> >> I
> >> >> expected the sail to be full hoist (luff dimension of at least 34
> ft).
> >> I
> >> >> would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on these
> measurements
> >> -
> >> >> whether they are good numbers to shoot for, or whether they are too
> >> >> big
> >> >> or
> >> >> too small (particularly LP, foot dimension, and luff length).
> >> >>
> >> >> There was kind of a strange seaming pattern. One seam ran from clew
> to
> >> >> luff,
> >> >> ending a few feet above LP. Below this seam, panel seams ran
> >> >> vertically
> >> >> (more or less parallel to the luff). Above this seam, panel seams
> were
> >> >> cross
> >> >> cut (more or less parallel to the foot).
> >> >>
> >> >> I have gotten concrete sail quotes from UK, North, and Sail Rite.
> The
> >> >> Sail
> >> >> Rite guy assures me that if I build one of his sails it will be just
> >> >> as
> >> >> good
> >> >> as a brand name sail. My thought is not only will I save some money,
> >> but
> >> >> I
> >> >> will also get to learn how to do canvaswork which would enable me to
> >> >> do
> >> >> my
> >> >> own sail, cover, and upholstery repairs in the future.
> >> >>
> >> >> All the quotes seem to be built around cloth weight of 6.5 Oz to 7
> Oz.
> >> >> Any
> >> >> thoughts on that?
> >> >>
> >> >> I appreciate y'alls patience and input on this. Sorry to be so
> dense.
> >> >> I
> >> >> just
> >> >> want to be an informed customer rather than just asking the
> sailmaker
> >> to
> >> >> figure everythign out for me. Since I am kind of an idiot when it
> >> >> comes
> >> >> to
> >> >> sailmaking, I am probably asking things that some of you think are
> >> silly.
> >> >> Again, preciate your patience.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kind regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> J Bergquist
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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