[Public-list] Ethanol detrimental to plastic fuel tanks

[edward schroeder]

I love this website. I have learned more from you guys than I did in school. Ed. Schroeder #303

Don Campbell <dk.campbell at sympatico.ca> wrote:  The chemistry that you have talked about so far is fairly correct. The question of
soulutions is moot with ethanol and water. For a solution, one requires a soulute
and a solvent. With water and ethanol, they are indistinguishable so these two
liquids are said to be miscible and there is no solution but a mixture. While some
organic chemists will say there is a solution, they are using the term loosely.
George is correct that the fuel and the drink are the same, but the currently
produced fuel grade ethanol is not potable because the distillation process is to
a commercial grade not food grade so is "denatured" because of impurities not
taken out of the production system as opposed to having additives put into the
system as for reagent grade ethanol for scientific purposes. ( From what I see in
the current agricultural research literature, there is a considerable amount of
effort now within the US to see if the fuel grade ethanol processing plants can
clean up the distillate so that they can also produce food grade ethanol.)
Ethanol has a melting point of -117.3 degrees C so it is highly unlikely that
it will settle out of a mixture with water until the water freezes at zero degrees
C. or slightly below with the presence of alcohols. The use of methyl hydrate (
methyl alcohol which has only one carbon atom) as an antifreeze is common and it
will often evaporate taking any water with it, so is useful for plumbing systems
in cottages or boats as its melting point is -97.8 degrees C. There is very
little available on solubility of alcohols in Gasoline but since the blends that
are being sold range from 10 to 85% alcohol, it would appear as if a solvent is
not defined here either, so another miscible mixture. What is for sure is that
water and gasoline are neither miscible nor do they form a solution. So if you are
getting globs of water within a gasoline- alcohol mixture, you have a solution
within the water that will not allow it to be miscible in alcohol. As George says,
Simply basic, and you never know when you will need it. Unfortunately, teachers
never could seem to make these situations practical.
Don #528

George Dinwiddie wrote:

> A couple of minor points:
>
> J Bergquist wrote:
> > Ethanol is an alcohol just like ethylene glycol (antifreeze), or drinking
> > alcohol
>
> Actually, it's the *exact same* alcohol as drinking alcohol. The
> gasoline, of course, denatures it and makes it poisonous. (My father
> was a chemist, and I learned about ethanol at an early age. ;-)
>
> > Ethanol is somewhere between gasoline and water in terms
> > of polarity, which means that in practice it will dissolve in both, but I
> > think (and I could be mistaken on this), that it is actually MORE soluble in
> > water than in gasoline, which is why it may separate.
>
> It's the OH group on the hydrocarbon chain that bonds with the water.
> The organic chain, itself, is pretty short (2 carbons long), so that
> puts the gasoline a bit close to the water for its comfort.
>
> An interesting factoid is that if you take a quart of ethanol and a
> quart of water and pour them together, the resulting solution is less
> than two quarts. In the water/ethanol combination, the atoms pack more
> tightly than in either pure solution.
>
> This may be a reason to drink your scotch neat, with a water chaser.
> (Actually, whiskey already has plenty of water. 100 proof means 50%
> water and 50% alcohol. Gives it a nice bead when you shake the mason jar.)
>
> These are all important facts of chemistry. You never know when they'll
> come in handy...like when you want to be left alone at a cocktail party.
>
> > I don't know what is going on but I know there
> > are some pumps in Annapolis that sell E85, which is 85% ETHANOL!!!!
>
> Magothy Marina is now selling E10.
>
> More than you wanted to know,
> George
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
> I think how evening follows morn; gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
> So many I loved were not yet dead, http://www.Alberg30.org
> So many I love were not yet born.
> 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list

_______________________________________________
These businesses support your Association:
http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
Please support them.
_______________________________________________
Public-list mailing list
Public-list at alberg30.org
http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list


 1158071973.0