[Public-List] gondoliers

Thu Jul 17 10:52:51 PDT 2008

Dan,

I might need to ask for a little "poetic license" on that one.

Roger 

-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of dan walker
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:08 PM
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Subject: Re: [Public-List] gondoliers

roger,
i just want to know where u get old movies of venetian gondoliers?
dan

--- On Thu, 7/17/08, Roger L. Kingsland <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:

> From: Roger L. Kingsland <r.kingsland at ksba.com>
> Subject: [Public-List] (no subject)
> To: "'Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all'" 
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 12:45 PM Hi Folks,
> 
> I wish y'all would stop talking about rudders because I am afraid good 
> old #148 has similar problems.  My anticipated, highly elegant, 
> solution was to have a 12'
> sweep oar on board (don't ask me where I would put it but I actually 
> do have one) that I could lash to the back stay and use as a temporary 
> rudder in case my suspect original had issues at sea (since many 
> problems come in pairs, I have been watching old movies set in Venice 
> to observe gondolier sculling techniques in case the engine goes at 
> the same time).  With all of this discussion, I might have to pull my 
> head out of the sand and address the problem.  After all I guess it's 
> kinda important to have the good old #148 rudder working well.
> 
> I have similar seepage as described by others but, of greatest 
> concern, is the rudder post seems to be crooked; IE, when heading 
> straight, the front of the tiller is about 5" to left of centerline 
> (it took me two hours of motoring in wide circles to figure out how to 
> adjust my steering technique so I could hold my course).  I did learn 
> a past owner managed to put her on the rocks years ago and, 
> apparently, the rudder was involved in the mishap.  The next owner, 
> who sold me the boat, had the rudder freeze while under way but it 
> wasn't the rudder's fault.
> The prop shaft broke, slid aft and jammed the rudder in
> hard right turn position (who'd-a-thunk-it).   
> 
> Someone also modified the shape of the rudder so it now has a concave 
> trailing edge and a flat, extended bottom.  It is the last picture in 
> the "Rudder Varieties"
> section on the A30 site
> (http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/RudderVarieties/)
> with the following comment provided, "This is a non-standard 
> rudder--not built by Whitby.  At one time Carl Alberg drew a sketch of 
> a squared-off rudder for the Alberg 30, but I don't think any were 
> produced that way. This one was probably the product of a previous 
> owner of the boat".  Here's my take.  I call it the "turn on a dime 
> rudder mod".  Be forewarned, don't enter into any "turning duels" with 
> good old #148 unless, of course, you have a bow thruster then, the 
> joke's on me.
> 
> I suppose now that the rudder has been out of the water for five years 
> and, therefore, really, really dry, it would be a good time do some 
> investigative demolition.  As evidenced by the seepage, I probably 
> have some voids and it would be worthwhile to know if the new shape is 
> an add-on (likely) or the rudder was replaced.  The "crooked tiller"
> issue is perhaps the greatest mystery as I imagine considerable force 
> would be required to torque the shaft enough to permanently bend it.  
> If that is the case, it's logical the connection between shaft, metal 
> cage/fingers and the body of the rudder has loosened, ugh.
> Anyway, I will continue to read with great interest your valuable and 
> timely postings. Rachel - please don't, stop; no, I mean - please, 
> don't stop; George is overworked and underpaid and imminently 
> forgivable.
> Besides, I will likely have many questions for our future, highly 
> experienced experts.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Roger 148
> 
> PS - Is it time for a "name the J (Bergquist)"
> contest?  I can start by throwing out - Joseph; From Iosephus, the 
> Latin form of Greek Ιωσηφος (Iosephos), which was from the Hebrew name 
> יוֹסֵף
> (Yosef) meaning "he will add".      
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Roger Kingsland, Managing Partner
> Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates
> 
>  
> 
> KSBA
> ________________________________
> 
> Architects/Planners/InteriorDesigners/ProjectManagers
>  
> 3441 Butler Street
> Pittsburgh, PA 15201
> N 40° 27.8344'  W79° 57.9831'
>  
> 412-252-1500 ext.101
> 412-779-5101 cell
> 412-252-1510 fax
> r.kingsland at ksba.com
> www.ksba.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
> Katz
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:31 PM
> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Rudder repairs, wood strip
> 
> Greetings, All,
> Wanted to add that I also had a strip or two of the wood in the face
>      of the rudder (port). I pulled it out and puzzled over it becuase
>      there was seepage at haul-out time, didn't know where/why water
>      was coming out (only small amounts).
> I ended up filling the void with epoxy-- no problems since then, a few
>     years back. I am really curious as to why the wood was there. It
>     was neatly laid in. I wondered if it were there in order to
>     achieve some sort of fine balance for the rudder or in order to
>     make an easy attachment point (why? for what?).
> 
>     THanks for the photos and other specifics about the rudder.
> 
>    Regards,
> Randy katz
> #249-- 1967
> Seattle/ Bellingham, WA.
> 
> 
> On Jul 16, 2008 09:14 AM,
> public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
> wrote:
> 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:29:45 -0400
> > From: laserandy at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [Public-List] Rudder Repairs (yes,
> another thread,
> > 	possibly another ruder variation)
> > To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> > Message-ID:
> <8CAB556C33B8311-F2C-3315 at FWM-M35.sysops.aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Rachel,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I should have mentioned, our boat is # 152, a bit, but
> not much,
> > earlier than yours.? Sounds like our rudders are
> nearly identical.?
> > George just posted the photos I took last night with
> my camera phone
> > at
> >
> http://alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/RudderVarieties/Andante152Rud
> > der.html
> > (thanks George).
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Fortunately for us we didn't have to grind off any
> of the overlaid
> > glass, it just fell off in big chunks with the aid of
> a chisel and
> > paint scraper revealing nice solid gelcoat (we
> didn't even get all
> > that dirty).? I have to wonder how long the rudder
> went around
> > supporting the loose sheathe of extra glass...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I banged a bit on the rudder with the butt of the
> chisel I was using,
> > it sounds and feels extremely solid.? My only points
> of minor concern
> > are that the straps are weeping a bit (appears to be
> water either in
> > or around the fairing compound, you can see it in the
> first and second
> > photos), and the top section of the rudder post is
> external to the
> > rudder and I'm concerned with water intrusion
> behind the post, perhaps
> > where the 'skeleton' penetrates the blade
> (although I probably
> > shouldn't be since it's been that way
> submerged for who?
> > knows how long).? Like yours, the straps under the
> Bondo look brand
> > new where I dug it out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Also, like you, I hate to do something that's
> going to make it harder
> > to repair in the future.? Everything feels so solid
> that I'm almost
> > tempted to dig out the bondo and re-fair it with
> something that will
> > stick well, but be easy to remove next time it needs
> it (more Bondo?),
> > perhaps leave the mahogany but shave it down to solid
> dry wood and
> > fair it with the same stuff (or dig it out and replace
> it with some
> > teak), fair the top part of the rudder post into the
> blade with
> > microballoon thickened epoxy to make the boat faster
> and keep the
> > water out (although I'll probably only be trapping
> what's in there
> > in), and then have the yard paint it with the rest of
> the bottom later
> > this week.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I want to do the work right, but at the same time I
> don't want to
> > spend time and money to fix something that isn't
> really broken,
> > potentially making it worse.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Andrew
> > 
> > 
> > Andante - 152
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I would like to see the photos of yours, particularly
> those from after
> > removal of some of the fairing and the wood.?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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