[Public-List] (no subject)

Thu Jul 17 09:45:24 PDT 2008

Hi Folks,

I wish y'all would stop talking about rudders because I am afraid good old #148 has similar problems.  My anticipated, highly elegant, solution was to have a 12' sweep oar on board (don't ask me where I would put it but I actually do have one) that I could lash to the back stay and use as a temporary rudder in case my suspect original had issues at sea (since many problems come in pairs, I have been watching old movies set in Venice to observe gondolier sculling techniques in case the engine goes at the same time).  With all of this discussion, I might have to pull my head out of the sand and address the problem.  After all I guess it's kinda important to have the good old #148 rudder working well.

I have similar seepage as described by others but, of greatest concern, is the rudder post seems to be crooked; IE, when heading straight, the front of the tiller is about 5" to left of centerline (it took me two hours of motoring in wide circles to figure out how to adjust my steering technique so I could hold my course).  I did learn a past owner managed to put her on the rocks years ago and, apparently, the rudder was involved in the mishap.  The next owner, who sold me the boat, had the rudder freeze while under way but it wasn't the rudder's fault.  The prop shaft broke, slid aft and jammed the rudder in hard right turn position (who'd-a-thunk-it).   

Someone also modified the shape of the rudder so it now has a concave trailing edge and a flat, extended bottom.  It is the last picture in the "Rudder Varieties" section on the A30 site (http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/RudderVarieties/) with the following comment provided, "This is a non-standard rudder--not built by Whitby.  At one time Carl Alberg drew a sketch of a squared-off rudder for the Alberg 30, but I don't think any were produced that way. This one was probably the product of a previous owner of the boat".  Here's my take.  I call it the "turn on a dime rudder mod".  Be forewarned, don't enter into any "turning duels" with good old #148 unless, of course, you have a bow thruster then, the joke's on me.

I suppose now that the rudder has been out of the water for five years and, therefore, really, really dry, it would be a good time do some investigative demolition.  As evidenced by the seepage, I probably have some voids and it would be worthwhile to know if the new shape is an add-on (likely) or the rudder was replaced.  The "crooked tiller" issue is perhaps the greatest mystery as I imagine considerable force would be required to torque the shaft enough to permanently bend it.  If that is the case, it's logical the connection between shaft, metal cage/fingers and the body of the rudder has loosened, ugh.  Anyway, I will continue to read with great interest your valuable and timely postings. Rachel - please don't, stop; no, I mean - please, don't stop; George is overworked and underpaid and imminently forgivable.  Besides, I will likely have many questions for our future, highly experienced experts.

All the best,

Roger 148

PS - Is it time for a "name the J (Bergquist)" contest?  I can start by throwing out - Joseph; From Iosephus, the Latin form of Greek Ιωσηφος (Iosephos), which was from the Hebrew name יוֹסֵף (Yosef) meaning "he will add".      

Roger Kingsland, Managing Partner
Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates

KSBA 
________________________________

Architects/Planners/InteriorDesigners/ProjectManagers

3441 Butler Street
Pittsburgh, PA 15201
N 40° 27.8344'  W79° 57.9831'

412-252-1500 ext.101 
412-779-5101 cell 
412-252-1510 fax
r.kingsland at ksba.com
www.ksba.com

-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Randy Katz
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:31 PM
To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Rudder repairs, wood strip

Greetings, All,
Wanted to add that I also had a strip or two of the wood in the face
     of the rudder (port). I pulled it out and puzzled over it becuase
     there was seepage at haul-out time, didn't know where/why water
     was coming out (only small amounts).
I ended up filling the void with epoxy-- no problems since then, a few
    years back. I am really curious as to why the wood was there. It
    was neatly laid in. I wondered if it were there in order to
    achieve some sort of fine balance for the rudder or in order to
    make an easy attachment point (why? for what?).

    THanks for the photos and other specifics about the rudder.

   Regards,
Randy katz
#249-- 1967
Seattle/ Bellingham, WA.

On Jul 16, 2008 09:14 AM, public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:29:45 -0400
> From: laserandy at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Rudder Repairs (yes, another thread,
> 	possibly another ruder variation)
> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> Message-ID: <8CAB556C33B8311-F2C-3315 at FWM-M35.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> 
>  Rachel,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should have mentioned, our boat is # 152, a bit, but not much, 
> earlier than yours.? Sounds like our rudders are nearly identical.?
> George just posted the photos I took last night with my camera phone 
> at 
> http://alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/RudderVarieties/Andante152Rud
> der.html
> (thanks George).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately for us we didn't have to grind off any of the overlaid 
> glass, it just fell off in big chunks with the aid of a chisel and 
> paint scraper revealing nice solid gelcoat (we didn't even get all 
> that dirty).? I have to wonder how long the rudder went around 
> supporting the loose sheathe of extra glass...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I banged a bit on the rudder with the butt of the chisel I was using, 
> it sounds and feels extremely solid.? My only points of minor concern 
> are that the straps are weeping a bit (appears to be water either in 
> or around the fairing compound, you can see it in the first and second 
> photos), and the top section of the rudder post is external to the 
> rudder and I'm concerned with water intrusion behind the post, perhaps 
> where the 'skeleton' penetrates the blade (although I probably 
> shouldn't be since it's been that way submerged for who?
> knows how long).? Like yours, the straps under the Bondo look brand 
> new where I dug it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, like you, I hate to do something that's going to make it harder 
> to repair in the future.? Everything feels so solid that I'm almost 
> tempted to dig out the bondo and re-fair it with something that will 
> stick well, but be easy to remove next time it needs it (more Bondo?), 
> perhaps leave the mahogany but shave it down to solid dry wood and 
> fair it with the same stuff (or dig it out and replace it with some 
> teak), fair the top part of the rudder post into the blade with 
> microballoon thickened epoxy to make the boat faster and keep the 
> water out (although I'll probably only be trapping what's in there 
> in), and then have the yard paint it with the rest of the bottom later 
> this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to do the work right, but at the same time I don't want to 
> spend time and money to fix something that isn't really broken, 
> potentially making it worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> Andante - 152
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to see the photos of yours, particularly those from after 
> removal of some of the fairing and the wood.?
> 
> 
> 

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