[Public-List] Has anyone tried MAS Bio-Solv

Don Campbell dk.campbell at sympatico.ca
Tue Oct 26 05:39:26 PDT 2010 

Usually it is not the source that is the problem it is the end-product 
chemical itself. Thus acetone would have the same MSDS sheet whether it 
was formed from corn starch or petroleum. Sorting out which carbon 
source is  most inefficient is another whole story and  one needs to 
include all the carbon expended to get in including any natural gas for 
making the nitrogen fertilizer for the corn. Bio - fuels are not all 
that great when it comes to carbon efficiencies compared to direct 
radiation (solar) sources. What we really need is an Infra-red system to 
capture heat energy.

Lawrence Morris wrote:
> Don,
>
> I think I follow this:  Carbon is Carbon and the organic label is 
> great marketing that means nothing.  I just have one question.  On a 
> MSDS risk level:  Corn Starch or Petro?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Larry Morris
> Solstice, #501
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Don Campbell wrote:
>
>>
>>   Corn starch is a wonderful source for carbon to make new carbon 
>> compounds and it depends upon the work organic and biochemists wants 
>> to put into the breakdown of corn starch to derive end products. It 
>> is quite possible to make acetone (a 3 carbon chain)  from corn 
>> starch with an enzymatic destruction of glucose (6 carbon ring)  into 
>> two 3 carbon units and then derive acetone from that. Great 
>> advertizing though if it gets Californians thinking bio- friendly.
>>   Generally any good degreaser for surface preparation has two parts 
>> to it , usually on the same molecule and at opposite ends : one part 
>> hydrophyllic and one part lipophyllic, The hydrophyllic end is water 
>> (or solvent soluble ) and the the other end is fat soluble. In this 
>> fashion the one end captures the fat or grease and the other end is 
>> captured by the solvent and so effectively taken away by excess 
>> amounts of solvent. Soap is a case in point. The potasium or phospate 
>> on the one end is water soluble and the fat on the other end captures 
>> the grease. Water is the solvent that takes the molecules away from 
>> the surface you want clean. (Soap is a  product from natural animal 
>> fats with 16, 17 or 18 carbon atoms and  detergents are similar in 
>> action but from man made carbon chains of 34, 35 or 36 carbon atoms. 
>> Bio-friendly usually means that there is some bacteria, fungus or 
>> other organism that will ingest or attack the base and use it as an 
>> energy source with an ensuing enzyme reaction to break it down. to be 
>> effective, teh necessary bacteria must be in the vicinity of the 
>> product that requires breaking down! So if you do not have the 
>> specific life form nearby, there is not much gain and most water 
>> treatment facilities do not use any biosystems within the current 
>> facilities.  As well, the bacteria may not like the compound once it 
>> has extra adhering to one end! We might  say it tastes bad, but they 
>> may say they cannot manage the size or get to the bond they like to 
>> break.
>>      You need to figure out what the actual chemical is and what it 
>> becomes with whatever you are trying to clean up attached to it to 
>> sort out whether it  is bio-friendly or not. And then you need to 
>> know if the bacteria or life form is available. The fact they make 
>> the product  from corn starch instead of petroleum is just a matter 
>> of language not particularly bio sources.
>>   The real crunch is that petroleum based carbon compounds were also 
>> once plant material and so just as "bio-based" as any plant based 
>> chemicals now. The only change is that the petroleum sourced carbon 
>> is being taken out of long term storage and corn starch is taken out 
>> of a short term storage. The sad part  is that chemists have made 
>> things like benzene rings from naturally occurring 6 carbon rings 
>> with no concept of anything but construction,  and unfortunately 
>> benzene rings and many other organic chemical compounds are neither 
>> bio-destructible nor easily destructible by other man made systems.  
>> (The use of this term "organic"  for most chemists means only that 
>> they are compounds that contain carbon. As an aside, this is one of 
>> the real problems of language with "organic" food products)
>>   You will find that acetone (or any other liquid that evaporates 
>> very quickly) works better if you use about a 25:75 % water to 
>> acetone miscible solution . Acetone will not do much of a job on 
>> particulate matter (aluminum oxide from abrasives for instance)  
>> because the acetone evaporates so fast and leaves the particles where 
>> water will tend to adhere to particles and using the adhesive and 
>> cohesive  forces from the  water molecule will remove the particles 
>> on your cloth as well as the greases with the acetone.
>>   The other fact is that only plants can fix carbon from CO2. Any 
>> carbon based product we (and any other life form)  make in our bodies 
>> we need to do so from ingested carbon compounds and subsequent 
>> biochemical breakdowns.
>> While this does not answer your question specifically, it might help 
>> with some background information so that you can decide what you 
>> really want to know.
>> Don
>> #528
>>
>> Rick Leach wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>> I just got an advert from Jamestown Distributors for a product 
>>> called "MAS Bio-Solv" that claims to be a bio-friendly, corn-based 
>>> solvent that outperforms acetone, toulene & xylene for cleaning and 
>>> surface prep for paint and epoxy.  It sounds worth a try, but I'm 
>>> wondering if anyone here has given a whirl yet.  Experiences?  
>>> Opinions?  Anyone?  Thanks!
>>> Rick Leach
>>> Sugar Magnolia, #121
>>> Monterey, California
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