[Public-List] Has anyone tried MAS Bio-Solv

Mon Oct 25 13:50:32 PDT 2010

Don,

I think I follow this:  Carbon is Carbon and the organic label is  
great marketing that means nothing.  I just have one question.  On a  
MSDS risk level:  Corn Starch or Petro?

Thanks

Larry Morris
Solstice, #501

On Oct 25, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Don Campbell wrote:

>
>   Corn starch is a wonderful source for carbon to make new carbon  
> compounds and it depends upon the work organic and biochemists wants  
> to put into the breakdown of corn starch to derive end products. It  
> is quite possible to make acetone (a 3 carbon chain)  from corn  
> starch with an enzymatic destruction of glucose (6 carbon ring)   
> into two 3 carbon units and then derive acetone from that. Great  
> advertizing though if it gets Californians thinking bio- friendly.
>   Generally any good degreaser for surface preparation has two parts  
> to it , usually on the same molecule and at opposite ends : one part  
> hydrophyllic and one part lipophyllic, The hydrophyllic end is water  
> (or solvent soluble ) and the the other end is fat soluble. In this  
> fashion the one end captures the fat or grease and the other end is  
> captured by the solvent and so effectively taken away by excess  
> amounts of solvent. Soap is a case in point. The potasium or  
> phospate on the one end is water soluble and the fat on the other  
> end captures the grease. Water is the solvent that takes the  
> molecules away from the surface you want clean. (Soap is a  product  
> from natural animal fats with 16, 17 or 18 carbon atoms and   
> detergents are similar in action but from man made carbon chains of  
> 34, 35 or 36 carbon atoms. Bio-friendly usually means that there is  
> some bacteria, fungus or other organism that will ingest or attack  
> the base and use it as an energy source with an ensuing enzyme  
> reaction to break it down. to be effective, teh necessary bacteria  
> must be in the vicinity of the product that requires breaking down!  
> So if you do not have the specific life form nearby, there is not  
> much gain and most water treatment facilities do not use any  
> biosystems within the current facilities.  As well, the bacteria may  
> not like the compound once it has extra adhering to one end! We  
> might  say it tastes bad, but they may say they cannot manage the  
> size or get to the bond they like to break.
>      You need to figure out what the actual chemical is and what it  
> becomes with whatever you are trying to clean up attached to it to  
> sort out whether it  is bio-friendly or not. And then you need to  
> know if the bacteria or life form is available. The fact they make  
> the product  from corn starch instead of petroleum is just a matter  
> of language not particularly bio sources.
>   The real crunch is that petroleum based carbon compounds were also  
> once plant material and so just as "bio-based" as any plant based  
> chemicals now. The only change is that the petroleum sourced carbon  
> is being taken out of long term storage and corn starch is taken out  
> of a short term storage. The sad part  is that chemists have made  
> things like benzene rings from naturally occurring 6 carbon rings  
> with no concept of anything but construction,  and unfortunately  
> benzene rings and many other organic chemical compounds are neither  
> bio-destructible nor easily destructible by other man made systems.   
> (The use of this term "organic"  for most chemists means only that  
> they are compounds that contain carbon. As an aside, this is one of  
> the real problems of language with "organic" food products)
>   You will find that acetone (or any other liquid that evaporates  
> very quickly) works better if you use about a 25:75 % water to  
> acetone miscible solution . Acetone will not do much of a job on  
> particulate matter (aluminum oxide from abrasives for instance)   
> because the acetone evaporates so fast and leaves the particles  
> where water will tend to adhere to particles and using the adhesive  
> and cohesive  forces from the  water molecule will remove the  
> particles on your cloth as well as the greases with the acetone.
>   The other fact is that only plants can fix carbon from CO2. Any  
> carbon based product we (and any other life form)  make in our  
> bodies we need to do so from ingested carbon compounds and  
> subsequent biochemical breakdowns.
> While this does not answer your question specifically, it might help  
> with some background information so that you can decide what you  
> really want to know.
> Don
> #528
>
> Rick Leach wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I just got an advert from Jamestown Distributors for a product  
>> called "MAS Bio-Solv" that claims to be a bio-friendly, corn-based  
>> solvent that outperforms acetone, toulene & xylene for cleaning and  
>> surface prep for paint and epoxy.  It sounds worth a try, but I'm  
>> wondering if anyone here has given a whirl yet.  Experiences?   
>> Opinions?  Anyone?  Thanks!
>> Rick Leach
>> Sugar Magnolia, #121
>> Monterey, California
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