[Public-List] Anchoring

PIM VAN DER TOORN toorn at rogers.com
Tue Apr 12 11:49:19 PDT 2011 

...but gained a "fleet"!




________________________________
From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 2:46:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Anchoring

Argh  and I lost my crew.....


On 12/04/11 2:42 PM, "PIM VAN DER TOORN" <toorn at rogers.com> wrote:

> I am here and i do remember.
> 
> Most vividly i remember looking at the dinghy's line going astern, straight as
> rebar, disappearing about half way down into the face of the wave behind us.
> it reminded me of that scene in Poltergeist where the rope held by the father
> character disappears "into the light".
> 
> I also rememeber thinking that SURPRISE seemed happy as a clam and in her
> element, bounding up and down those waves like an eager thoroughbred. I think
> it 
> was that trip more than anything else that planted the thought in my head, "i
> want an Alberg 30".
> Pim
> 369 WINDWARD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:49:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Anchoring
> 
> The purpose of a drogue is to retard the boat's forward movement...it's
> really a steering and speed control rather than any sort of moor.
> 
> Miles Smeeton's book 'Once is Enough' in which he relates his first two
> unsuccessful attempts to round Cape Horn include descriptions of using
> various drogues in extreme weather.  By the way he made it on his third try,
> his was the first yacht to survive a east to west rounding.  Another fellow
> made it in the 1930's but nobody knew he'd made it until the wreck of his
> yacht was found on the Pacific side decades later....
> 
> Another writer commented while describing drogue deployment that one should
> not make a drogue fast to anything one would mind losing.... The forces
> generated are extreme and it is generally considered impossible to recover a
> drogue once it is deployed.  Writers talk about tripping lines to invert the
> drogue and thereby make them easier to recover...but in practice it is
> extremely difficult to keep the trip line from wrapping with the drogue's
> main line.
> 
> This is getting long, sorry...here's one more story...
> 
> Pim of WINDWARD, (a new subscriber to this list) and I were sailing downwind
> in quite large seas on a Misery Trip one year.  We were towing my heavy
> Boston Whaler Squall dinghy on a 100' line.  I was curious about the effect
> the dinghy would have on my steering but have to report that I noticed
> nothing.  The wind was over 35kts, SURPRISE was never below hull speed and
> while on the face of waves surfed up to 10kts regularly.  The dinghy was
> putting terrific strain on the tow line but I never felt it in the helm.
> Maybe it steadied us but I don't think so.  For its part, sometimes the
> dinghy would catch the following wave and come way up to us surfing on one
> side or the other with the line in a big bight.  Then once it had lost its
> own wave, SURPRISE would surge ahead as if to say 'back in line, you!'.
> Once or twice we jerked it right through the top few feet of a wave.... I
> was quite concerned that a sea might throw it into the cockpit on top of us,
> which would have been quite something, but never even came close to
> happening.
> 
> All that made me think about drogues and downwind steering in heavy seas...
> I guess it wasn't blowing hard enough!
> 
> Pim - are you out there?  Remember that day?
> 
> Gord #426 Surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/04/11 1:32 PM, "Roger L. Kingsland" <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks all for the anchoring lessons.  I guess the difference between towing
>> a drogue and anchoring by the stern is the boat is still moving with a
>> drogue, giving the stern an opportunity rise above the waves.  If anybody is
>> interested, I would love to hear thoughts on the pros and cons of sea
>> anchors vs. drogues.
>> 
>> Of course, from all of this discussion, a good politician would conclude the
>> best compromise is to anchor beam to the wind.
>> 
>> Gord & Mike - I have to admit that sometimes, when I get pissed, I then go
>> and get pissed.
>> 
>> Roger 148
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Laco
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 12:54 PM
>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Anchoring
>> 
>> Now Mike - I should mention that outside the USA the expression "I got
>> pissed" means the speaker became intoxicated....
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/04/11 12:35 PM, "Mike Lehman" <Sail_505 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I anchored stern to the wind only one time...by mistake. I was a stake
>> boat
>>> in the Canadian/Chesapeake races one year. I was alone on board. I
>> anchored
>>> in 80 feet of water about 50 yards downwind of the turning mark. It was
>> one
>>> of those days when the wind was about 25 out of the North and there was
>>> about 4-6 chop on the Bay. When the race was over, I had to retrieve the
>>> buoy (a large orange ball). I cold not get it on deck from the bow, so I
>>> circled around and picked it up over the stern. As I was hauling it in a
>> big
>>> wave forced me to let it go and when I did the line paid out so fast that
>> it
>>> wrapped around a cleat hand held fast. I was careful not to get tangled in
>>> the free line, but now I was anchored stern to and did not have enough
>>> strength to release the line from the cleat. So I put the boat in full
>>> reverse and was backing and pulling against the waves and the wind. One
>>> particularly large wave came over the stern and over the stern pulpit
>>> hitting me about knee high, I turned to look at the cockpit which was full
>>> to the seat lockers. I got pissed, put the boat in forward and pulled the
>>> anchor free. Once I hauled everything on deck, I swore I would never
>> anchor
>>> stern to again.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Roger L. Kingsland
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:02 AM
>>> To: 'Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all'
>>> Subject: [Public-List] Anchoring
>>> 
>>> PS (to anchoring question below) - has anyone actually tried anchoring
>> stern
>>> to the wind?
>>> 
>>> Relative to anchoring, has anyone tried paying out sufficient scope on the
>>> deck (with the last 30' outside the stays and stanchions) and dropping the
>>> anchor and chain form the stern?  The anchor could then be set w/ boat
>> going
>>> forward rather than in reverse.  Those preferring a bow to the wind
>> attitude
>>> could then let the last 30' go and switch the rhode from the stern to the
>>> bow.  Might work well when short handed or alone.
>>> 
>>> Roger 148
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
>>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Laco
>>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:29 AM
>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Reversing the A-30
>>> 
>>> Good morning Stephen -
>>> 
>>> I think what you are getting at is that between the weathercocking issue
>> and
>>> prop walk the boat will 'walk' herself up stern to the wind if one runs
>> the
>>> engine in reverse for a prolonged time while setting the anchor.  Here's
>>> what we do.  Again, sorry this is so long...
>>> 
>>> When anchoring we line the boat up head to wind, or rather slightly to
>>> starboard of head to wind.  When using the engine we give it a hard burp
>> in
>>> reverse  put sternway on then put it in neutral again.  Once the chain is
>>> paid out sufficiently we let it snub gently then give it a hard pull with
>>> the engine, again in one or more hard burps.  By starting off with her
>> head
>>> to one side of head to wind, you give yourself some 'room' for the prop
>> walk
>>> to occur before it becomes annoying.
>>> 
>>> When anchoring under sail, we make our approach with the headsail furled,
>>> under the main alone.  We turn up into the wind with the main luffing then
>>> use it to stop where we want to put the anchor by pushing the boom out to
>>> the shrouds - effectively backing it and generating power in reverse.
>> Down
>>> goes the anchor when sternway is on.... The chain or rope is snubbed when
>>> enough is out.  It doesn't matter much if the boat has yawed while backing
>>> down so long as the anchor gets its encouragement to set.
>>> 
>>> If it is windy and the boat starts 'hunting' back and forth we set a very
>>> small jib (actually from a Mirror class dinghy) along the backstay sheeted
>>> amidships.  That stops the boat's desire to turn downwind and she lies
>>> peacefully.
>>> 
>>> I forget if I asked before... Is your boat the one I saw at jetty adjacent
>>> to S.A.L.T.S a few years ago?
>>> 
>>> Soon we'll be sailing here and doing what I described above!
>>> 
>>> Gord #426 SURPRISE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 04/04/11 2:06 AM, "Stephen Gwyn" <gwyn at beluga.phys.uvic.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> OK, how about anchoring? You always have your head into
>>>> the wind, and the boat always want to weathercock the other
>>>> way. And you need to back down hard to set the anchor;
>>>> gently setting the anchor is a waste of time.
>>>> 
>>>> Stephen
>>>> #495 Quasar
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   Stephen Gwyn                |  Tel: 1-250-363-3136
>>>>   Dept. of Physics & Astronomy |  Fax: 1-250-363-0045
>>>>   Univ. of Victoria            |  Cell: 1-250-885-6969
>>>>   PO Box 3055                  |  E-mail: gwyn at uvastro.phys.uvic.ca
>>>>   Victoria, BC  V8W 3P6        |  http://orca.phys.uvic.ca/~gwyn
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
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> 
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