[Public-List] Spinnaker pole topping lift location

Gordon Laco mainstay at csolve.net
Thu Jun 16 05:05:23 PDT 2011 

Broaching in moderate conditions was once considered a dead end behaviour
characteristic in yacht design, now such things are normal.  Funny that. I
like to tell people that if sailors today knew how well 'traditional' yachts
perform compared to what they're used to, they wouldn't be satisfied with
what they are sold.

Now picture me pounding the table in a pub spilling everybody's beer while I
say this....

Gord #426 Surprise


On 16/06/11 7:57 AM, "Mike Lehman" <Sail_505 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I broached my cousins Beneteau Oceanis 31 in Denmark the same way in wind
> that was only 6m/sec. The water was flat calm , but when I trimmed in, the
> rudder came out due to excessive heal. I had (and still have) a hard time
> converting the wind speed to knots, but figured it was something like 12
> knots. The Beneteau dealer told me (in Danish) that we must reef in those
> kind of wind speeds...I guess that I am too use to sailing an Alberg 30.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger L. Kingsland
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:52 AM
> To: 'Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all'
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Spinnaker pole topping lift location
> 
> Gord,
> 
> In eight years of being on the list I might have told this one before so
> please forgive the redundancy.  In my 20s I crewed on a C&C 41 on Lake Erie
> under the IOR rule (shows my age).  I had some big boat cruising experience
> and small boat racing experience but no big boat racing experience so I was
> put on the main sheet during my first race.  We rounded a mark in 20+ knots
> and set the star-cut spinnaker for a reach.  Things were gonging swimmingly
> until I noticed the big bubble in the leading edge of the main and said to
> myself, "self, pull in that main, we will go faster and the skipper will
> appreciate your independent, analytical initiative."
> 
> So I did.
> 
> To my surprise, our 10 ton boat made an immediate right turn and went over
> on her side; almost like some sea creature had grabbed the keel and pushed
> it out of the water.  When I saw a few of the crew hanging vertically form
> the uphill lifelines, I concluded I might not win the vote for "Greenhorn of
> the Year."
> 
> I don't really recall how things got straightened out but, after they did,
> the Skipper commenced a'yelling at me.  We lost several places with the
> broach and at least two more because of the Skippers singular, intense focus
> on demonstrating, to me, his extensive cursing vocabulary.
> 
> Of course with my well honed analytical skills mentioned earlier and some
> irrefutable cause and effect evidence, I had already concluded it was may
> fault so, my consistent response was, "I couldn't be more sorry... I didn't
> know THAT would happen, but I sure do now... it will never, ever happen
> again... if you prefer, I am a good swimmer and will jump overboard
> now..."(the rest of the crew seemed to favor that option but I think there
> is something in the rules about finishing with the same number of people).
> 
> The navigator finally convinced the skipper that had gotten the point and,
> except for me frequently asking if the main was set properly, we finished
> the race in the "sublime silence of resentment."  Lesson learned; the hard
> way.
> 
> Roger 148
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roger Kingsland, Managing Partner
> 
> Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates
> 
> 
> 
>    KSBA
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Architects/Planners/InteriorDesigners/ProjectManagers
> 
> 
> 
> 3441 Butler Street
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> www.ksba.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Laco
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:50 AM
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Spinnaker pole topping lift location
> 
> Ha!
> 
> I used to crew in a yacht that had a big light spinnaker and a heavier
> smaller one for heavy air.
> 
> We called the big one "The Big Chute";  the smaller one was called "The
> Chicken Chute" because we used it when we were afraid to use the larger one.
> 
> Our skipper used to say that spinnakers in racing during heavy air are
> analogous to nuclear weapons in détente.  Everyone has 'em, nobody wants to
> use 'em, but once some idiot does, everybody has to....
> 
> Sorry to make light of the horrible nuclear détente most of us grew up
> under, but when young and carefree we thought the comparison was funny...
> 
> Gord #426 Surprise
> 
> 
> On 15/06/11 9:44 AM, "Roger L. Kingsland" <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:
> 
>> Glenn,
>> 
>> Your third paragraph exemplifies why it would a shame to ever "leave the
>> list."  I am definitely going to look into a sound proof bag for my large
>> spinnaker.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Roger 148
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of
>> brooks.glenn at comcast.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:08 PM
>> To: Bill Wallace; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Spinnaker pole topping lift location
>> 
>> Hi Bill,
>> My topping lift is installed at the spreaders and works fine to control
> the
>> whisker pole, which I also use ( more often) to boom out the
>> jyb/genoa/drifter. I havent ever needed a down haul on the pole, and don't
>> have a spinnaker sock. but the sock seems like a good idea. There isn't
> much
>> load to speak of on the topping lift, so mounting a block below the
>> spreaders works well. This year I am going to install a stout block at the
>> forestay fitting at the bow and run a long outhaul each side to boom out
> the
>> main when off the wind. Humphrey Barton rigged his Vertue XXXV this way on
>> his first transatlantic crossing and spoke highly of the ease of
> controlling
>> the boom when flying a spinnaker short handed. Other early cruisers wrote
>> about this method, so will give it a try in a few weeks. Might be a
>> worthwhile addition for down wind sailing.
>> 
>> 
>> I've got a couple of blocks mounted each side of the aft taff rail, and
> run
>> the spinnaker sheets through and back to the main winches. This seems to
> set
>> a proper sheet angle.
>> 
>> 
>> I also sail mostly single handed. Against my better judgement I carry a
>> large and small spinnaker on board. H ave never had an idyllic day's
> sailing
>> when flying the Damn things. Mostly I fly one to big for the wind when it
> is
>> really sunny and I get lulled by the siren's song and use really terrible
>> judgement about what could possibly go wrong on such a nice day.
>> (Rationally, I figure I should only fly it in less than 10 knots or so,
> but
>> always manage to put one of em up in more than that...) Aah but they are
>> cursed with the mermaid's song, and call out so sweetly on downwind runs!
> so
>> if you do put one on board, never, ever gaze into the sail locker when it
>> calls, or you will surely be snared into frantic hours of set up time and
>> lost, lost I say in wild desperation soon as you haul the windward sheet -
>> no matter how softly the apparent wind! I'd get rid of mine in a heart
> beat,
>> but worry endlessly that I might eventually find a useful reason one day
> to
>> have em on board... hah
>>  a, Fair Winds and great sailing!! :>
>> 
>> 
>> Glenn B.
>> S/V Dolce #318
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill Wallace" <wayfarer3134 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "alberg 30" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:19:13 PM
>> Subject: [Public-List] Spinnaker pole topping lift location
>> 
>> I have most of the bits now for a spinnaker, but there isn't a topping
> lift
>> for the spinnaker - there is a spinnaker halyard installed and ready, but
>> not the lift. Does one usually install a topping lift from the top of the
>> mast or from part-way up, and if part-way up, is the mast strong enough
> for
>> the load? The down-haul I understand gets mounted just over the anchor
>> loncher back wall so that it has something strong to attach to.
>> 
>> The sheets run back to the turning blocks on the rail - I probably need to
>> add another set as the original jib blocks are too far forward and I'm
> using
>> the spinnaker blocks for the jib-sheets. I will have to choose between the
>> spinnaker and the jib as I only have the one set of winches, and I don't
>> expect I can manage the spinnaker without winches.
>> 
>> The only other thing I think I still need is a spinnaker sock - I will be
>> flying it single handed most of the time and dousing it without a sock
> seems
>> just about impossible.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill.
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