[Public-List] questions about bronze fasteners

Gordon Laco mainstay at csolve.net
Tue May 10 07:14:05 PDT 2011 

Once upon a time high strength bronze wire rigging was available... But
although I have looked fairly diligently for it, I can't find anything
around but stray coils left over from the old days.    One of the reasons it
disappeared from yachting is that it stained sails and clothing when the
inevitable verdigris developed and things rubbed on it...

Gord #426 Surprise


On 10/05/11 9:08 AM, "Jeffrey" <fongemie at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Gord.
> 
> Too bad that bronze is becoming so expensive.
> 
> -jeff
> 
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
>> Hello friends - I just realized I made a number of grammatical errors in my
>> tirade below that make my meaning tough to determine.  If anybody is
>> interested in what I was trying to say, the version below may be clearer....
>> 
>> Sorry.
>> 
>> Gord
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/05/11 8:54 AM, "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is an interesting topic.
>>> 
>>> Stainless steel is not particularly 'strong'.... But due to it's appearance
>>> and longevity in rigging, it is now used almost exclusively.   Most sailors
>>> today can't believe that galvanized steel rigging is considerably more
>>> suitable for rigging than SS.  This is because SS is so brittle and prone to
>>> metal fatigue in comparisine to galvanized steel or iron...  In particular
>> matrix's (ie 7x7) galvanized steel or iron rigging is considerably stronger
>> per
>>> diameter than SS.
>>> 
>>> There are alloys of bronze that are 'stronger' than stainless steel... An
>>> example would be aluminium bronze.  However, most such alloys are
>>> considerably more expensive than stainless steel.   Because there are so
>>> many alloys of bronze available, it is important to have good reasons to
>>> have faith in the veracity of your bronze gear's maker's claims of what
>>> alloy they supply.  That's a whole separate topic and I have amusing stories
>>> I could tell with a beer in front of me.
>>> 
>>> Much is sometimes made of 'high quality' 316 grade stainless steel vs 'lower
>>> quality' 304 grade stainless steel.   An interesting fact is that while 316
>>> will look shinier for longer; It is more brittle than the softer and
>>> somewhat less corrosion-proof, and cheaper 304.  304 is stronger per
>>> diameter
>> even though it
>>> won't look as good after years in service.
>>> 
>>> Another issue with stainless steel is that it needs to be exposed to O2 in
>>> air for the anti-corrosive properties 'work'.  It is for this reason that
>>> appropriate alloys of bronze are better for fastenings in places where they
>>> will live buried in the materials they hold or underwater, than stainless
>>> steel.  So wrapping it with too much tape,  or putting plastic bags over
>>> various rigging components (or anything) during winter lay-ups are counter
>>> productive practices when dealing with stainless steel rigging.
>>> 
>>> And so on....
>>> 
>>> Gord #426 SURPRISE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/05/11 5:57 AM, "Jeffrey" <fongemie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I agree Michael. What I don't like about working with stainless is
>>>> that while I'm sure it is stronger, it gives no feedback to when it
>>>> fails. For example, when putting screws into a hard wood, stainless
>>>> goes in ok right up to the point where it snaps the head off or strips
>>>> the head. With bronze, it seems that you can feel it start to stress,
>>>> as if the head is twisting a little, then springs back. It is subtle,
>>>> but I do notice it. Gives you the chance to make a correction, drill a
>>>> better pilot hole etc.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff Fongemie
>>>> #116 Seagrass
>>>> 
>>>> http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 9:58 PM,  <crufone at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't believe that Stainless holds up well in a salt water environment.
>>>>> As with Bronze there are many alloys of Stainless. Some are more salt
>>>>> water
>>>>> resistant than others. But if I had the choice between silicon bronze and
>>>>> stainless fasteners for the same application I would always choose
>>>>> silicone
>>>>> bronze.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michael #133
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "brian curry" <brian_curry at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:40:30 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Public-List] questions about bronze fasteners
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looking for some help here.  I am looking to do several projects with the
>>>>> wood on my boat and am wondering is anyone can give me answers to some
>>>>> questions:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1.  Without measuring, does anyone know offhand how many sizes and lengths
>>>>> of
>>>>> fasteners are used on our A 30s?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2. Are silicon bronze fasteners the same as bronze fasteners?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 3.  Where is the best place to buy bronze fasteners?  I have been looking
>>>>> online at Jamestown Distributors (example box of 100 #8 x 1/2 is
>>>>> $8.70/box.)
>>>>>  I would like to buy basically what I would need, meaning various sizes,
>>>>> to
>>>>> use on the boat.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally if anyone has another idea INSTEAD of bronze fasteners, please let
>>>>> me
>>>>> know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian Curry
>>>>> Tampa Fl
>>>>> Makai 151
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian Curry, Executive Director
>>>>> The Sustany Foundation
>>>>> www.sustany.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 



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