[Public-List] Conversion of water tank to holding tank

Meinhold, Michael J. MICHAEL.J.MEINHOLD at saic.com
Tue Oct 25 12:34:17 PDT 2011 

I had a Chesapeake-legal working jib made and it can only be sheeted close-hauled properly from the inside track.
It has  high clew and the clew is forward of the mast.

While I have not done rigorous measurements of tacking angles, I believe it is the best upwind head sail for single-handing in 18 kts or higher. It gives me better speed made good upwind than my 175% #1
I don't currently have #2, so I use the working jib in 15 or higher single-handing.
If you have some crew to sit on the weather rail you can move these numbers up of course.

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Laco
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:40 PM
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Conversion of water tank to holding tank

Yes, but....

The extra pointing is only worth it if there is enough wind to drive the
yacht fast enough, that you have leeway under control.  In our boats I'd say
you need 20kts of wind to make the tighter sheeting worth while.  Pointing
higher while sailing at low speed doesn't get you upwind faster because the
boat makes so much more leeway.  At higher boatspeeds (say 6kts and more)
leeway won't be so bad and you can make profitable use of the higher
pointing.

Other boats (like TOUCH WOOD, the Folkboat) quite happily clamber to
windward tacking through better than 80 degrees between tacks with inside
sheeting; but not SURPRISE unless there was enough air to drive her.

This is an issue that we used to patiently explain to keen young volunteers
aboard HMS BEE, the historic sailing warship I used to be responsible for.
She's a schooner, so by hauling in everything and sheeting her great
overlaping foresail one could jam her up so she could point almost like a
yacht... But the leeway was utterly heartbreaking.  It was better in most
circumstances to sail faster on a lower course making less leeway...with a
course made good that was much better.

In SURPRISE We only ever used those inside tracks for a spinnaker staysail.
That's sail's usefulness is doubtful, so removing the tracks and grinding
their pads away is in the works for our boat.   We find we get enough
improvement using a forward position on the regular tracks that I don't
covet more using the inner ones.

Gord #426 SURPRISE


On 25/10/11 2:21 PM, "Roger L. Kingsland" <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:

> Gord,
> 
> I noticed, when close hauled, the working jib can be sheeted thru the inner
> traveler (inside the stays)in the middle of the deck (and I thought they
> were there just so I could stub my toes).  Would that sail configuration
> allow better pointing angles and better "velocity made good"?
> 
> Roger
> 
> Roger Kingsland, Managing Partner
> 
> Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates
> 
>  
> 
>    KSBA 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Architects/Planners/InteriorDesigners/ProjectManagers
> 
>  
> 
> 3441 Butler Street
> 
> Pittsburgh, PA 15201
> 
> N 40° 27.8344'  W79° 57.9831'
> 
>  
> 
> 412-252-1500 ext.101
> 
> 412-779-5101 cell
> 
> 412-252-1510 fax
> 
> r.kingsland at ksba.com
> 
> www.ksba.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Laco
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:11 PM
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Conversion of water tank to holding tank
> 
> Hi Roger - the navigable part was only about 60' in places....
> 
> 
> On 25/10/11 2:07 PM, "Roger L. Kingsland" <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:
> 
>> Good stuff Gord.  Minnicog sounds about as wide as my Allegheny River.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> Roger Kingsland, Managing Partner
>> 
>> Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>    KSBA 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> 
>> Architects/Planners/InteriorDesigners/ProjectManagers
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 3441 Butler Street
>> 
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15201
>> 
>> N 40° 27.8344'  W79° 57.9831'
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 412-252-1500 ext.101
>> 
>> 412-779-5101 cell
>> 
>> 412-252-1510 fax
>> 
>> r.kingsland at ksba.com
>> 
>> www.ksba.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Laco
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:53 PM
>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Conversion of water tank to holding tank
>> 
>> Hi Roger  - 
>> 
>> You're correct about the bladder tanks.  I wouldn't recommend one unless
> it
>> could be installed in a very smooth basin-like compartment... Sort of like
>> the interior of an integral tank!
>> 
>> By the way - we completed the 2011 Misery Cruise this past weekend.  The
>> weather was fairly balmy, wind was only 8-10kts but solidly steady.  No
>> misery.   So to get our pulses going we resolved not to use the engine.
> We
>> actually beat up the Minnicognashene Channel taking 12 tacks to advance
> the
>> 120 meter long narrow part.  Poor SURPRISE was only about 1.5 boat lengths
>> on the majority of those tacks before I called 'ready about - ABOUT' again
>> and again.  We had a yacht under power behind us but they were good sports
>> and cheered us on.  The evening on Saturday was lovely - not at all cold
> and
>> the stars were reflected on the still water, so looking down was nearly
> the
>> same as looking up.  The only flaw was that we are still in a year of
>> minimums for northern lights so didn't see any.  Later we retired to the
>> cabin and told old sailing stories while the woodstove glowed and the load
>> line in the Glayva bottle went down.
>> 
>> Coming home Sunday, the wind had gone south so after sailing off the
> anchor
>> we had to beat out through Minnicog again - dead upwind both ways!  Did it
>> in 9 tacks this time (starboard tack was a bit more of a 'gainer' this
> time)
>> then had a romping beat home, again with starboard tack being the gainer
> and
>> port the 'setter'.
>> 
>> Great trip, but no misery.  I'll have to try and squeak in another one
>> before freeze up really ends the season.  Pim take note...
>> 
>> Gord #426 SURPRISE
>> 
>> 
>> On 25/10/11 1:38 PM, "Roger L. Kingsland" <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael,
>>> 
>>> I fiber glassed the areas under the aft end of the V berth to make 2, 20
>>> gallon+/- tanks; one for holding and the other for who knows what.  I
>> bought
>>> a 3 part polypropylene (same stuff used for holding tanks) coating system
>> to
>>> apply inside the compartments but haven't done it yet.
>>> 
>>> I made full size plywood tops with a plan to apply a few coats then
>> install
>>> the tops when last coat is wet.  My only concern with coating the forward
>>> tank would be being able to reach all surfaces with a roller or paint
>> brush.
>>> 
>>> RE bladder tanks, others on the page have indicated they can chafe and
>> leak
>>> which would be uber yucky.
>>> 
>>> Roger 148  
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
>>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of
>>> crufone at comcast.net
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:37 PM
>>> To: Alberg, Public List
>>> Subject: [Public-List] Conversion of water tank to holding tank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> George and others,
>>> 
>>> What about applying a coating to the inside of the water tank if human
>> waste
>>> does absorb into the fiberglass tank material? Could one install a
>> flexible
>>> bladder tank into the original water tank? Has anyone done either of
> these
>>> two procedures?
>>> 
>>> Michael #133 
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