[Public-List] Rudder stops and stern tubes.

[Mike Lehman]

Glenn,

If it makes you feel any better, I re-bedded my stern tube and rudder tube 
with 5200 about 25 years ago and it is still hanging in there and does not 
leak. Epoxy or Polyester does not adhere to silicon bronze, so 5200 
re-enforced with FG around the outside is the best option.




~~~_/)_/)~~ Mike Lehman ~~_/)~~~
-----Original Message----- 
From: brooks.glenn at comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 2:46 AM
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Rudder stops and stern tubes.

Hi Kirk,


Very good questions. I hope others on the list will add some more 
knowledgeable comments as I missed my opportunity to head into the Pacific 
and follow you around this summer and but do intend to start out next 
spring. Would like to have the shaft log thing nailed down with certainty 
before then.


I've wondered about the stern tube setup myself, when I replaced it 6 years 
ago. It still concerns me as I dont yet know the what is the best overall 
fix. When I bought Dolce, I did use 5200 to rebed ( stern tube and rudder 
post) at the time and it still seems good as new today. I did remove ALL the 
old grey putty and replaced the putty with 5200 to act as both adhesive and 
as a sealant. Actually used 5200 in two or three applications over a week to 
fill in the entire void in the prop shaft where the old one and putty used 
to be. after one application cured a bit for a couple of days, I used more, 
eventually filling the entire void throughout the full length of the rudder 
tube inside the hull. So far it seems to beholding and does not leak, except 
through the packing gland.



As to glassing it in, I do not believe that is a viable idea. My rudder post 
was glassed in and it spun out and broke loose when I tried to open the 
packing nut on the inside end. It was already leaking at the time and my 
attempt to renew the gland material resulted in complete failure. Not good 
if one where out in the middle of the ocean. so I ended up taking the 
assembly out and reinstalling and rebedding with liberal amounts of 5200 on 
the outboard side, then added massive fiberglass reinforcement inside the 
hull when I pyut everything back together. I reasoned the 5200 would seal 
the rudder tube from water entry, and the FG reinforcement would add 
strength and rigiditi from the inside to keep it from twisting and breaking 
loose. so far, it does not leak as it used to when there was nothing but 
putty and a smaller bit of glass work holding it in place.


I have come to learn two things about glassing in packing glands from that 
experience: 1) the fiberglass work will break loose when torqued or hit with 
a sharp striking blow such is in grounding and as will epoxy filler, and 2) 
a fiberglass bound will leak. Water will work its way between the glass and 
the metal tubing, as FG does not bond chemically with the metal, mearly 
coats it, and 3) 5200 on the outside ( to seal water out) and massive FB 
buildup inside the hull to hold the assembly in place seems to be a good 
one-two punch solution. So I like 5200 for the adhesive and flex/shock 
absorption properties in the stern tube and rudder tube. 4200 is even better 
as it sets up in 24 hours where as 5200 is slow curing over a week. Use the 
"permanent" bound grade material.


Not sure why your prop hits the rudder. mine does not. so maybe your prop is 
set to far aft on the prop shaft, or the rudder aperture isnt big enough, or 
maybe the prop diameter is a bit oversized?? I think my prop is in the 
neighborrhodd of 3 bladed 12" diameter. Be interesting if you could post a 
picture for the list to look at, as i know others have said there are 
several different rudder styles over the years.


Best of luck with your repairs!


Glenn
Dolce #318


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Little" <kirkalittle at hotmail.com>
To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:11:34 PM
Subject: [Public-List] Rudder stops and stern tubes.


It's been nearly three long weeks here on the hard in Trinidad making up for 
4 years of sailing and not hauling out onto the hard short of careening 
between the tides for bottom paint in Madagascar and 3 days on a trailer in 
Australia. So this discussion about 5200 got me thinking about my stern 
tube?, that bronze pipe that threads onto the cutlass bearing housing and 
the stuffing box. The first time I replaced the cutlass bearing 5 years ago 
the stern pipe came out with the housing and I thought nothing of it, just 
re-bed the tube and housing together with 5200 and no problems. Even now 
when I took it out again it was not too much trouble to remove the old 5200 
(chisel and sand paper) and re-bed it. But the other folks here in the 
marina looked at me like I broke my boat when the tube came out telling me 
it should be glassed in and never removed?! On the Alberg 30 there is 
probably half of an inch of glass there where it protrudes out so not a lot 
of surface area for ep
oxy/glass to lock it in, then there is just a bunch of pliable grey putty, 
so I just glued it back in with 5200 as before and suspect its fine but it 
did get me wondering if it should come out so easily or not, any thoughts?

As for 5200, IMHO, it is the way to go for most things that you don't want 
to take apart on a regular basis (like a through hull), I can't ever 
remember it failing as a sealant or a glue. Yes, it is a bit of effort to 
rebed later on but I've always managed to get everything cleaned up with the 
combination of steal brush, sanding, chisel, and even the grinder on rare 
occasions, but I'm always grateful that it holds on so well so I don't mind. 
Some places well off the beaten path where it's impossible to obtain I've 
seen it traded amongst cruisers as if it was gold, even when sikaflex was 
handy. One South African offered me a case of wine for an extra tube I was 
carrying when he had leaky spot on his steal boat near the mast where some 
wires were passing through.

Lastly, I had my prop re-conditioned for the third time here. And I hardly 
use it but about once a year I put the engine in gear without remembering to 
fully lower the tiller. This allows the prop to actually hit the rudder when 
the tiller is hard over to either side and always puts a few nasty dings / 
bends in the prop blades. The only rudder stop I can find is the cockpit 
seats against the tiller which do the job but only if you have the tiller 
fully down, am I missing something or is there some kind of rudder stop that 
should keep me from doing this over and over? I couldn't find anything by 
searching the old list so any help or even links to old info is appreciated! 
Sorry for the long winded questions, Thanks -Kirk #504.


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