[Public-List] Rudder stops and stern tubes.

[brooks.glenn at comcast.net]

Hi Kirk, 


Very good questions. I hope others on the list will add some more knowledgeable comments as I missed my opportunity to head into the Pacific and follow you around this summer and but do intend to start out next spring. Would like to have the shaft log thing nailed down with certainty before then. 


I've wondered about the stern tube setup myself, when I replaced it 6 years ago. It still concerns me as I dont yet know the what is the best overall fix. When I bought Dolce, I did use 5200 to rebed ( stern tube and rudder post) at the time and it still seems good as new today. I did remove ALL the old grey putty and replaced the putty with 5200 to act as both adhesive and as a sealant. Actually used 5200 in two or three applications over a week to fill in the entire void in the prop shaft where the old one and putty used to be. after one application cured a bit for a couple of days, I used more, eventually filling the entire void throughout the full length of the rudder tube inside the hull. So far it seems to beholding and does not leak, except through the packing gland. 



As to glassing it in, I do not believe that is a viable idea. My rudder post was glassed in and it spun out and broke loose when I tried to open the packing nut on the inside end. It was already leaking at the time and my attempt to renew the gland material resulted in complete failure. Not good if one where out in the middle of the ocean. so I ended up taking the assembly out and reinstalling and rebedding with liberal amounts of 5200 on the outboard side, then added massive fiberglass reinforcement inside the hull when I pyut everything back together. I reasoned the 5200 would seal the rudder tube from water entry, and the FG reinforcement would add strength and rigiditi from the inside to keep it from twisting and breaking loose. so far, it does not leak as it used to when there was nothing but putty and a smaller bit of glass work holding it in place. 


I have come to learn two things about glassing in packing glands from that experience: 1) the fiberglass work will break loose when torqued or hit with a sharp striking blow such is in grounding and as will epoxy filler, and 2) a fiberglass bound will leak. Water will work its way between the glass and the metal tubing, as FG does not bond chemically with the metal, mearly coats it, and 3) 5200 on the outside ( to seal water out) and massive FB buildup inside the hull to hold the assembly in place seems to be a good one-two punch solution. So I like 5200 for the adhesive and flex/shock absorption properties in the stern tube and rudder tube. 4200 is even better as it sets up in 24 hours where as 5200 is slow curing over a week. Use the "permanent" bound grade material. 


Not sure why your prop hits the rudder. mine does not. so maybe your prop is set to far aft on the prop shaft, or the rudder aperture isnt big enough, or maybe the prop diameter is a bit oversized?? I think my prop is in the neighborrhodd of 3 bladed 12" diameter. Be interesting if you could post a picture for the list to look at, as i know others have said there are several different rudder styles over the years. 


Best of luck with your repairs! 


Glenn 
Dolce #318 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Little" <kirkalittle at hotmail.com> 
To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:11:34 PM 
Subject: [Public-List] Rudder stops and stern tubes. 


It's been nearly three long weeks here on the hard in Trinidad making up for 4 years of sailing and not hauling out onto the hard short of careening between the tides for bottom paint in Madagascar and 3 days on a trailer in Australia. So this discussion about 5200 got me thinking about my stern tube?, that bronze pipe that threads onto the cutlass bearing housing and the stuffing box. The first time I replaced the cutlass bearing 5 years ago the stern pipe came out with the housing and I thought nothing of it, just re-bed the tube and housing together with 5200 and no problems. Even now when I took it out again it was not too much trouble to remove the old 5200 (chisel and sand paper) and re-bed it. But the other folks here in the marina looked at me like I broke my boat when the tube came out telling me it should be glassed in and never removed?! On the Alberg 30 there is probably half of an inch of glass there where it protrudes out so not a lot of surface area for ep 
oxy/glass to lock it in, then there is just a bunch of pliable grey putty, so I just glued it back in with 5200 as before and suspect its fine but it did get me wondering if it should come out so easily or not, any thoughts? 

As for 5200, IMHO, it is the way to go for most things that you don't want to take apart on a regular basis (like a through hull), I can't ever remember it failing as a sealant or a glue. Yes, it is a bit of effort to rebed later on but I've always managed to get everything cleaned up with the combination of steal brush, sanding, chisel, and even the grinder on rare occasions, but I'm always grateful that it holds on so well so I don't mind. Some places well off the beaten path where it's impossible to obtain I've seen it traded amongst cruisers as if it was gold, even when sikaflex was handy. One South African offered me a case of wine for an extra tube I was carrying when he had leaky spot on his steal boat near the mast where some wires were passing through. 

Lastly, I had my prop re-conditioned for the third time here. And I hardly use it but about once a year I put the engine in gear without remembering to fully lower the tiller. This allows the prop to actually hit the rudder when the tiller is hard over to either side and always puts a few nasty dings / bends in the prop blades. The only rudder stop I can find is the cockpit seats against the tiller which do the job but only if you have the tiller fully down, am I missing something or is there some kind of rudder stop that should keep me from doing this over and over? I couldn't find anything by searching the old list so any help or even links to old info is appreciated! Sorry for the long winded questions, Thanks -Kirk #504. 


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