[Public-List] Life lines

Wed Jul 9 12:00:41 PDT 2014

Hello Mike - 

You didn't see my jack lines on SURPRISE due to my being in the middle of
replacing them....  We normally have webbing running up port and starboard.
The after ends were anchored to life line base bales, up forward they went
through the bases of the two bow cleats then back down to the corresponding
last stanchion base.  I know I should put pad eyes up forward, that's part
of the replacement plan.

Cheers - Gord
426 Surprise

On 09/07/14 2:55 PM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List"
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> The OSHA standard requires the attachment support 5000 lb force. It also says
> the system must not  provide more than 1800 lbs to the falling person in a
> harness (900 in a belt).  This is essentially a factor of safety of 2.8 - very
> reasonable for man-loads.  1800 lbs decelerates a 200 lb person at 9 g's -
> still pretty severe.
> 
> You can't justify less beefy padeye on a smaller boat, except that you have
> shorter trip to the water.
> 
> I have Harken padeyes at the forward end of the lifelines that are rated at
> above 5000 lbs. While I believe the screws , backing plate and padeye would
> carry the load, I am not confident that the deck would support it. Could I
> pick the boat up with two of these? I don't think so.
> 
> My jack lines are on two bow cleats and two coaming cleats, and I believe the
> distribution of force gives me well above 5000 lbs. I am confident that if I
> go overboard I will still be attached - I may have broken ribs though. Best to
> stay in the boat!
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Morris [mailto:morris.lc at verizon.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 2:04 PM
> To: Glenn Brooks; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Cc: Meinhold, Mike J.; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Life lines
> 
> I suspect it is based on OSHA Fall protection regulations that require 5klbs
> for attachment points for worker harnesses
> 
> 
> 
> Larry 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 9, 2014, at 1:51 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I think Gordon is saying that one should never trust the lifeline, not that
>> they are inherently unsafe.   should some part of the lifeline , stanchion,
>> etc, let go, then whomever is hanging on  at that point is seriously
>> compromised, like my friend John.
>> 
>> I do take one exception to the whole safety at sea regulatory thing, which
>> perhaps someone on the list  can explain- the 4500 # breaking strength for
>> jack lines and attachment points.  Most, if not all the West Coast racing
>> rules require 4500 lb breaking strength for clip on points, and the webbing
>> and jack lines that attach to one's harness.  Yet, it's hard to impossible to
>> find deck eyes etc for small boats (30' ers like the alberg) in this size;
>> 2500 -3500# are much more common.  And those 4500 fittings are massive and
>> expensive.   More suitable to a 60footer!
>> 
>> Anybody know where this requirement came from and if there are actual
>> engineering studies t0 support the requirement?  Or is this just another case
>> where a bunch of type A rules committee  Old Salts doubled the old
>> requirement For Safety By Gawd, not realizing their predecessors doubled the
>> same requirement 20 years ago?  I would love it, if there is actually a
>> reason for the requirement.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Glenn B
>> dolce 318
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:26 AM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List"
>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> George and Mike
>>> Good points on the failure mode analysis - don't want a single point of
>>> failure to drown you! It's my favorite position when the boat is heeled to
>>> the rail so I will have to look hard at the pelican hooks.
>>> I am not sure about Gord's opinion that the lifelines are not safe to lean
>>> on. If they cannot take the static load of my back at 25 degrees of heel,
>>> then they can't take the shock load when you grab them in the center as you
>>> fall overboard.  If they can't do that then they should not be there at all.
>>> 
>>> While the Chesapeake is not the Atlantic, as a frequent single hander I know
>>> the chain-of-failure processes that can put you at real risk out there, and
>>> respect them.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Public-List [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Mike Lehman via Public-List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 10:05 AM
>>> To: Gordon Laco; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Life lines
>>> 
>>> I too nearly went overboard when the hinge pin on the pelican broke. I was
>>> sitting on the low side with the rail in the water when it let go...it was
>>> all I could do to stay aboard. I got rid of the pelican hooks after that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ~~~_/)_/)~~ Mike Lehman ~~_/)~~~
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gordon Laco via Public-List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:58 AM
>>> To: Wes Gardner ; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> Cc: George Dinwiddie
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Life lines
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