[Public-List] Roller Furling
Gordon Laco
mainstay at csolve.net
Fri Sep 29 07:52:47 PDT 2017
HOLD EVERYTHING! I FORGOT SOMETHING!
The procedure I described only works if the old sail is NOT set on the top swivel. One has to decide before going out if a change is likely... so we’d have had to not use the top swivel BEFORE we set the small sail.
So, we’d have had to go bald headed for a few seconds while we got the top swivel out of the way...
Gord
#426 Surprise
On 2017-09-29, 10:47 AM, "Public-List on behalf of Gordon Laco via Public-List" <public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on behalf of public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
Hello Don, good point.
Back in the old days when I was young and there were up to 20 or so A30’s on the start line in Toronto, we would have thought nothing of changing headsails on the go even in heavy weather.
Changing in the go with the furler is actually easier and quicker than with hanks, but we didn’t do it because of two factors... one is that my guys, while great crew, have never done it before. The second is that the downwind leg was short, so I reckoned the disturbance while we did it might not be worthwhile, particularly as I’d have to be narrating everyone’s job by shouting while we were doing it.
But if we did it, here’s what we’d have done...
Picture us roaring along on a very broad reach... small high clewed blade jib set. I decide we’ve got to go back to the bigger headsail.
First, we rig a ‘change sheet’, a spare genoa sheet, through it’s blocks – it’s to accommodate a change sheet that most sheet blocks on cars are so wide.
Second, roust the genoa up on deck, and attach the change sheet.
Third, unshackle the jib’s tack from the snap shackle on the top of the furler drum, and clip the tack of the genny there (now we can’t lose the sail overboard) the halyard may have to be eased slightly to relieve tension in order to open the shackle.
Fourth, attach the #2 headstay halyard to the head of the genny... feed its luff tape into the second slot in the furler’s headstay extrusion. Because the jib was in the starboard side slot, and we may be on starboard tack, the head may have to be led under the sail that’s set and up into the track so it’ll be going up behind... make certain the halyard’s lead up at the top is fair... fix it if it isn’t.
Fifth, hoist the new sail... it’ll go up behind the jib.
Sixth, cast off the #1 halyard the old sail, the jib, is set on, haul down the sail... remove its halyard from the furler’s top swivel, which is now down, clip the halyard onto the mast, remove sheets, stuff sail down fore hatch.
Seventh, take windward sheet that was removed from the jib, re-lead it through the genoa sheet block... tie to clew of genoa so we can tack.
Presto – that kind of sail change is called a ‘peel’ because the old sail is peeled off from the new sail, and the boat is never bald-headed. The new sail cannot be furled on the furler because the top swivel isn’t in place, but later on when there’s no need for hurry, the sail can be lowered, the halyards switched, and hoisted again as a fully furling sail with the top swivel back in place.
When doing a change using hanks, there is a period of time while the old sail is down and it’s hanks are being removed...then the new sail is being hanked on, during which the boat is bald headed and only under main. In the old days we used to try to minimize this down time by pre-loading as many of the new sails hanks beneath the first hank of the old sail as possible. It was quite exciting work.
Now that I’ve written this, and the actual procedure shouldn’t take much longer than I’ve taken writing... we could have done it, and would have, if it wouldn’t have been my guys first try at it. We’ll be ready next year.
Gord
#426 Surprise
On 2017-09-29, 10:27 AM, "Public-List on behalf of Don Campbell via Public-List" <public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on behalf of public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
Gord:
I take it that you opted for crew safety and did not consider changing
the foresail on the last run on Wednesday night. Could you have changed the
sail?
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Laco via Public-List
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 9:33 AM
To: Michael Connolly ; Fongemie, Jeff ; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Cc: Gordon Laco ; Dinwiddie, George
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
Good morning Michael... yes, there is a place in the world for conveniences,
especially when they afford safety, as in eliminating the need for crew to
be sent onto the foredeck.
Gord
#426 Surprise
PS my traditional rigging business brings in the British Wykeham-Martin
headsail furling gear. Yes, once upon a time there was a fellow by that
name who one stormy night before the Great War, nearly lost his wife
overboard while dousing headsails on their yacht. He went home and went
into his workshop, took the bearings from bicycle wheels and built the first
working yacht headsail roller furling. Google it by name for pictures.
Today’s units don’t use bike bearings, but the castings are descended from
his originals. Wykeham-Martin gear has a separate lower spooling drum and
upper swivel...the sail in between relies on tension in the wire luff of the
sail to stand up aft of the forestay. Because this gear torques only from
the bottom, it absolutely should not be used as reefing; but it does a
reasonable job furling up. And there’s still a place in the world for
reliable old fashioned gear, despite its limitations. But I wouldn’t
recommend it for our boats.
From: Michael Connolly <crufone at comcast.net>
Date: Friday, September 29, 2017 at 9:11 AM
To: "Fongemie, Jeff" <fongemie at gmail.com>, George Dinwiddie via Public-List
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>, "Dinwiddie, George"
<gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
Gord,
Thanks for the vivid explanation. I thought that most folks knew what
happens when a skipper uses roller furling as roller reefing. For every
convenience there is always some compromise. I still maintain that for best
performance a hanked-on Jib or Genoa provides a better leading edge luff
shape to the sail than any fully deployed roller furled sail.
I crew for a skipper in Florida who has had the foam pieces installed in her
Genoa. It is not pretty but she feels it gives her more options when using
her pick-up crew for racing. A green crew is not going to be able to do a
head sail switch very effectively between races.
Michael #133
From: "Jeffrey via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
Cc: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>,
"George Dinwiddie" <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:08:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
Thanks for taking the time Gord. Makes perfect sense. I can't tell you how
many boats I've been on where the owner treated the roller furler as a
roller reefer. Myself included with boats I've chartered.
Good info. I'm still hanking my head sails.
Jeff
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
> Hello Jeff –
>
>
>
> Sailing with a headsail partially furled, particularly in heavy air,
> destroys the sail.
>
>
>
> You’ve probably seen how mainsails have reinforcing at the reefs... this
> is because of the concentrations of loads and the new clew and tack when
> the sail is reefed. When a genoa is partially furled, it has a new tack
> and head... but no reinforcing. The sail cloth is stretched and that’s
> the
> end of that sail with regard to shape. The worst manifestation of this is
> a stretched leach, which shows as a flutter caused by the damage to the
> sail cloth allowing distortion in shape.
>
>
>
> For a while some sailmaking conglomerates were offering an option that
> involved sewing reefing positions in headsails in the form of
> reinforcement
> patches such as one sees in mains... in use the sailor would furl till the
> head and tack patches were up to the stay... but in practice that doesn’t
> help much because the distorting loads carry round the furler stay, not
> just at the point.
>
>
>
> And besides all that, one gets a poor shape when a sail is partially
> furled. Too bulbous in the middle of the bunt, too tight at the head and
> tack. And, to combat this, some companies were for a while offering foam
> inserts to the luff of sails in hopes of making them half-furl more
> effectively... but this of course didn’t address the basic issue that
> using
> a furler for reefing destroys the sail.
>
>
>
> Gord
>
> #426 Surprise
>
>
>
> *From: *Jeffrey <fongemie at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *<fongemie at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 2:04 PM
> *To: *Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>, George Dinwiddie via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> *Cc: *George Dinwiddie <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
>
>
>
> Gord,
>
>
>
> Did you write that reffing a furling headsail via rolling some of it in is
> bad for the sail? I'd not heard this before. What's the issue?
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> That’s the way I did it aboard the Folkboat...
>
> G
> #426 Surprise
>
>
> On 2017-09-28, 11:35 AM, "Public-List on behalf of George Dinwiddie via
> Public-List" <public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on behalf of
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> I quickly learned not to tie the downhaul to the halyard or the head
> of
> the sail. Pulling down on the head of the sail twists the sail at the
> top hank, jamming it on the forestay. That's why I tie the downhaul to
> the top hank. A clove hitch around the body of the hank secured with a
> half hitch seems to work fine.
>
> - George
>
> On 9/27/17 10:08 PM, Rod Symmes via Public-List wrote:
> > <<< Guess that I could install grommets along the
> > luff, say three inches in from the luff tape and run a line from the
> top
> > grommet to the foredeck, then use a downhaul just as George does.
> Have
> > not seen anyone do that. Could be interesting. Will have to ask
> around
> > about it. >>>
> > Jonathan - I would advise against doing that. I don't believe it
> will work well - and here is why.
> >
> > On my previous boat I had hanked on foresails and a down-haul that
> worked beautifully until I too thought I could "improve" it. My halliard
> had a snap for the head of the jib and the down haul was also tied to the
> snap, down to a block at the stem and back to the cockpit, as someone
> mentioned earlier. Because that down haul was not restrained, if the wind
> was just right, it would whap whap whap at the back of the jib. I thought
> I would fix that by clipping each ( ?? senior moment) on the luff of the
> jib over both the fore stay and the down haul as I installed it thus
> containing the down haul line. My thinking was that should work - it will
> be coming down with the sail.
> >
> > WRONG ! By the time the jib was half way down, the ( senior
> moments ) were piling up at the foot of the stay and the down haul was
> having to slide through them all. The friction became so great I could
> not
> get the jib all the way down. Grommets would bind on the line even worse.
> Also, you would have to re-thread that line each time you change jibs.
> Not convenient or quick.
> >
> > With the down haul loose to fly from the head to the stem block, it
> was quick and easy and, while lowering sail, if pulled down snugly and
> cleated, even a big genoa would usually stay inside the lifelines until I
> could deal with it.
> >
> > Bonus Feature: the halliard can never get lost up the mast.
> >
> >
> > Happy sailing.
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Rod P.S. Is that (senior moment) called a
> barrel snap ????? (-:
> >
> > ~~~~_/) ~~~~~~~~~~
> > ~~~~~~~_/) _/) ~~~~~~~
> > ~~_/) ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> When I remember bygone days George
> Dinwiddie
> I think how evening follows morn;
> gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
> So many I loved were not yet dead,
> http://www.Alberg30.org
> So many I love were not yet born. also
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> http://idiacomputing.com
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>
> --
>
>
>
> ______________
>
> Jeffrey Fongemie
>
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>
--
______________
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<http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
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