[Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 3669, Issue 1
Daniel Swords
danielswords at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 3 06:13:47 PDT 2018
I live in Mandeville Louisiana and also sail my Alberg 30 on Lake Pontchartrain (I did not know there was another A30 in this area). I currently have a 135 genoa. For me that is too large and when I replace it it will be with a 120 genoa (but I don’t race and am in no great hurry to get anywhere). Despite what others say about not being able to use a furler for reefing I find that I can furle my genoa about 10% and the sail still will maintain a good shape. Beyond that 10% (which isn’t a lot) it looses its shape and looks embarrassing. I also disagree that that places damaging strains on the sail but that is just my opinion, I am sure others know much more than me. I would however love to have someone demonstrate to me how they leave the cockpit, go to the bow of the boat, drop and stow a 150 genoa and replace it with a smaller sail in 15+ knots of wind while sailing singlehanded. Hard enough to do with a hank on jib. I simply can not do it. Of course, it would be nice if the winds were always steady enough that I could select my headsail and reef my main in my slip, but that is not the case on Lake Pontchartrain.
When I am sailing and decide I need to reef my sails I first generally put one reef in the main, if the wind continues to increase my next step is to roller furle my genoa about 10% (makes it about a 120 genoa), my third step is a second reef in the main, after that I furle the jib to about the size of a storm jib because I find that my boat doesn’t sail very well on just the double reefed main and even a tiny bit of jib makes an improvement. Beyond that I hove to.
Pardon my including the entire digest in this reply, I can not figure out a way not to. Daniel SwordsSolitude #525
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======================================================
Today's Topics:
1. New sails (Marcelo D. Gentinetta)
2. Re: New sails (Michael Connolly)
3. Re: New sails (Jonathan Bresler)
4. Re: New sails (Gordon Laco)
5. Re: New sails (Marcelo D. Gentinetta)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 20:18:05 -0500
From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: [Public-List] New sails
Message-ID: <42227BC8-C51A-42C4-9122-D026533294A4 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Greetings from New Orleans.
I would like to field different opinions on the subject of sails, specifically furler headsail size. I have started sailing my A30 just in the last month after 1year spent refitting her. I bought her with a 10y old mainsail that needs replacement and a 7y old 150% genoa (very good condition but no foam in luff) on a Profurl furler. On my previous boat, Pearson Vanguard, I had hank on headsails. So, I had a 90% jib, 125% and 150% genoas and I would select them accordingly. Now, aside from seeing the real convenience of a headsail furler, I find myself questioning what size headsail would best fit most conditions encountered here throughout the year. I am also planning on purchasing a new main but that is pretty straightforward. Summer winds here are between 5-12k and then they pick up in the fall, winter and spring. As fronts move in, we?ll go out in 15-20k gusting to 25k. Over 25k we?ll usually stay in port. So here are some options I have been toiling with.
1. New main plus my present 150% genoa with added foam pad in the luff for better shape when partially furled.
2. New main plus a 125% genoa with foam pad luff ?fall/winter sail? and keep the 150% as is for summer use.
3. New main plus 135-140% genoa with foam pad luff and keep the 150% as spare.
I appreciate your input. Hopefully, it won?t be as contentious as anchor selection.
Marcelo
#441 Alegr?a
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 01:43:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: Michael Connolly <crufone at comcast.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] New sails
Message-ID:
<389732761.65203648.1530582194304.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Marcelo,
My first reaction is option number 3. Bend on the 150 when you know it is going to be light, i.e., summer time. What type of sailing do you do? Any racing? Daysailing mostly?
The main would be good to have two reef points. If only one reef make it a hefty one, like half way between what would be a first and second reef. If you plan to have a loose footed main or a shelf in the foot fashion a decent outhaul that can be employed on any point of sail.
BTW I dislike using the headsail furler for reefing. While your Vanguard sail selection might be considered antiquated by todays standards I like that style.
Happy sailing,
Michael #133
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 9:18:05 PM
Subject: [Public-List] New sails
Greetings from New Orleans.
I would like to field different opinions on the subject of sails, specifically furler headsail size. I have started sailing my A30 just in the last month after 1year spent refitting her. I bought her with a 10y old mainsail that needs replacement and a 7y old 150% genoa (very good condition but no foam in luff) on a Profurl furler. On my previous boat, Pearson Vanguard, I had hank on headsails. So, I had a 90% jib, 125% and 150% genoas and I would select them accordingly. Now, aside from seeing the real convenience of a headsail furler, I find myself questioning what size headsail would best fit most conditions encountered here throughout the year. I am also planning on purchasing a new main but that is pretty straightforward. Summer winds here are between 5-12k and then they pick up in the fall, winter and spring. As fronts move in, we?ll go out in 15-20k gusting to 25k. Over 25k we?ll usually stay in port. So here are some options I have been toiling with.
1. New main plus my present 150% genoa with added foam pad in the luff for better shape when partially furled.
2. New main plus a 125% genoa with foam pad luff ?fall/winter sail? and keep the 150% as is for summer use.
3. New main plus 135-140% genoa with foam pad luff and keep the 150% as spare.
I appreciate your input. Hopefully, it won?t be as contentious as anchor selection.
Marcelo
#441 Alegr?a
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 05:35:15 -0400
From: Jonathan Bresler <262alberg30 at gmail.com>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] New sails
Message-ID:
<CAHEe8TsA_S0RQqGC7+1Y_r2sTafdVRsD-6u78KfZNONBxnNW1Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Marcelo,
Suggest not using the furler for reefing. Even with foam in the luff, the
sail does not set near as well as it does when fully deployed. The
stresses placed on the sail by the higher wind speeds fall at locations
that are not designed to handle them....no tack and head patches increasing
the thickness of the sail from single ply to two, three or more.
Would suggest removing the larger sail from the furler and sliding a
smaller one up the slot in higher winds. This is what I will be doing,
once i purchase a smaller headsail.
Agree with you fully regarding the convenience of a headsail furler. I
singlehand a lot, folding a sail alone is a real hassle. Would be tempted
to sail less if I had to do so regularly.
Jonathan
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:43 PM, Michael Connolly via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> Marcelo,
> My first reaction is option number 3. Bend on the 150 when you know it is
> going to be light, i.e., summer time. What type of sailing do you do? Any
> racing? Daysailing mostly?
> The main would be good to have two reef points. If only one reef make it a
> hefty one, like half way between what would be a first and second reef. If
> you plan to have a loose footed main or a shelf in the foot fashion a
> decent outhaul that can be employed on any point of sail.
> BTW I dislike using the headsail furler for reefing. While your Vanguard
> sail selection might be considered antiquated by todays standards I like
> that style.
> Happy sailing,
> Michael #133
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.
> org>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>
> Cc: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 9:18:05 PM
> Subject: [Public-List] New sails
>
> Greetings from New Orleans.
> I would like to field different opinions on the subject of sails,
> specifically furler headsail size. I have started sailing my A30 just in
> the last month after 1year spent refitting her. I bought her with a 10y old
> mainsail that needs replacement and a 7y old 150% genoa (very good
> condition but no foam in luff) on a Profurl furler. On my previous boat,
> Pearson Vanguard, I had hank on headsails. So, I had a 90% jib, 125% and
> 150% genoas and I would select them accordingly. Now, aside from seeing the
> real convenience of a headsail furler, I find myself questioning what size
> headsail would best fit most conditions encountered here throughout the
> year. I am also planning on purchasing a new main but that is pretty
> straightforward. Summer winds here are between 5-12k and then they pick up
> in the fall, winter and spring. As fronts move in, we?ll go out in 15-20k
> gusting to 25k. Over 25k we?ll usually stay in port. So here are some
> options I have been toiling with.
> 1. New main plus my present 150% genoa with added foam pad in the luff for
> better shape when partially furled.
> 2. New main plus a 125% genoa with foam pad luff ?fall/winter sail? and
> keep the 150% as is for summer use.
> 3. New main plus 135-140% genoa with foam pad luff and keep the 150% as
> spare.
>
> I appreciate your input. Hopefully, it won?t be as contentious as anchor
> selection.
> Marcelo
> #441 Alegr?a
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
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> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
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>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
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> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
--
Jonathan M Bresler
S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
Annapolis/Eastport MD
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 08:01:05 -0400
From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] New sails
Message-ID: <A5B0FA11-089A-483B-831D-F472FB520BB6 at csolve.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I agree completely?
You should still change sails as required as you did before? but it will be easier and quicker than with hanks. I?d suggest a 150 for everyday, and a smaller sail for heavier air is a good combination.
Gordon Laco
#426 Surprise
> On Jul 3, 2018, at 5:35 AM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> Marcelo,
>
> Suggest not using the furler for reefing. Even with foam in the luff, the
> sail does not set near as well as it does when fully deployed. The
> stresses placed on the sail by the higher wind speeds fall at locations
> that are not designed to handle them....no tack and head patches increasing
> the thickness of the sail from single ply to two, three or more.
>
> Would suggest removing the larger sail from the furler and sliding a
> smaller one up the slot in higher winds. This is what I will be doing,
> once i purchase a smaller headsail.
>
> Agree with you fully regarding the convenience of a headsail furler. I
> singlehand a lot, folding a sail alone is a real hassle. Would be tempted
> to sail less if I had to do so regularly.
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:43 PM, Michael Connolly via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
>> Marcelo,
>> My first reaction is option number 3. Bend on the 150 when you know it is
>> going to be light, i.e., summer time. What type of sailing do you do? Any
>> racing? Daysailing mostly?
>> The main would be good to have two reef points. If only one reef make it a
>> hefty one, like half way between what would be a first and second reef. If
>> you plan to have a loose footed main or a shelf in the foot fashion a
>> decent outhaul that can be employed on any point of sail.
>> BTW I dislike using the headsail furler for reefing. While your Vanguard
>> sail selection might be considered antiquated by todays standards I like
>> that style.
>> Happy sailing,
>> Michael #133
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.
>> org>
>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>
>> Cc: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
>> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 9:18:05 PM
>> Subject: [Public-List] New sails
>>
>> Greetings from New Orleans.
>> I would like to field different opinions on the subject of sails,
>> specifically furler headsail size. I have started sailing my A30 just in
>> the last month after 1year spent refitting her. I bought her with a 10y old
>> mainsail that needs replacement and a 7y old 150% genoa (very good
>> condition but no foam in luff) on a Profurl furler. On my previous boat,
>> Pearson Vanguard, I had hank on headsails. So, I had a 90% jib, 125% and
>> 150% genoas and I would select them accordingly. Now, aside from seeing the
>> real convenience of a headsail furler, I find myself questioning what size
>> headsail would best fit most conditions encountered here throughout the
>> year. I am also planning on purchasing a new main but that is pretty
>> straightforward. Summer winds here are between 5-12k and then they pick up
>> in the fall, winter and spring. As fronts move in, we?ll go out in 15-20k
>> gusting to 25k. Over 25k we?ll usually stay in port. So here are some
>> options I have been toiling with.
>> 1. New main plus my present 150% genoa with added foam pad in the luff for
>> better shape when partially furled.
>> 2. New main plus a 125% genoa with foam pad luff ?fall/winter sail? and
>> keep the 150% as is for summer use.
>> 3. New main plus 135-140% genoa with foam pad luff and keep the 150% as
>> spare.
>>
>> I appreciate your input. Hopefully, it won?t be as contentious as anchor
>> selection.
>> Marcelo
>> #441 Alegr?a
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 07:18:05 -0500
From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] New sails
Message-ID: <92C84D1D-984D-4D3C-895B-0076BCBA7837 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks for all the good input. This of course generates more questions.
1. Don mentions sailing with just the 135% out in winds over 25k. My understanding of this is that this arrangement places more stress on the mast due to pumping of the rig. Is this a fallacy?
2. My present main has jacklines at the luff to accommodate reefing and also to offset the tack aft. Is this the standard arrangement or are there other ways to achieve the same purpose?
3. So if I refrain from using the furler to reduce headsail size which I understand may damage the sail, what is the best order of sail reduction and still maintain balance? Main 1st reef, 2nd reef, headsail only?
> On Jul 3, 2018, at 7:01 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> I agree completely?
>
> You should still change sails as required as you did before? but it will be easier and quicker than with hanks. I?d suggest a 150 for everyday, and a smaller sail for heavier air is a good combination.
>
> Gordon Laco
> #426 Surprise
>
>
>
>
>> On Jul 3, 2018, at 5:35 AM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Marcelo,
>>
>> Suggest not using the furler for reefing. Even with foam in the luff, the
>> sail does not set near as well as it does when fully deployed. The
>> stresses placed on the sail by the higher wind speeds fall at locations
>> that are not designed to handle them....no tack and head patches increasing
>> the thickness of the sail from single ply to two, three or more.
>>
>> Would suggest removing the larger sail from the furler and sliding a
>> smaller one up the slot in higher winds. This is what I will be doing,
>> once i purchase a smaller headsail.
>>
>> Agree with you fully regarding the convenience of a headsail furler. I
>> singlehand a lot, folding a sail alone is a real hassle. Would be tempted
>> to sail less if I had to do so regularly.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:43 PM, Michael Connolly via Public-List <
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Marcelo,
>>> My first reaction is option number 3. Bend on the 150 when you know it is
>>> going to be light, i.e., summer time. What type of sailing do you do? Any
>>> racing? Daysailing mostly?
>>> The main would be good to have two reef points. If only one reef make it a
>>> hefty one, like half way between what would be a first and second reef. If
>>> you plan to have a loose footed main or a shelf in the foot fashion a
>>> decent outhaul that can be employed on any point of sail.
>>> BTW I dislike using the headsail furler for reefing. While your Vanguard
>>> sail selection might be considered antiquated by todays standards I like
>>> that style.
>>> Happy sailing,
>>> Michael #133
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.
>>> org>
>>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>>
>>> Cc: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 9:18:05 PM
>>> Subject: [Public-List] New sails
>>>
>>> Greetings from New Orleans.
>>> I would like to field different opinions on the subject of sails,
>>> specifically furler headsail size. I have started sailing my A30 just in
>>> the last month after 1year spent refitting her. I bought her with a 10y old
>>> mainsail that needs replacement and a 7y old 150% genoa (very good
>>> condition but no foam in luff) on a Profurl furler. On my previous boat,
>>> Pearson Vanguard, I had hank on headsails. So, I had a 90% jib, 125% and
>>> 150% genoas and I would select them accordingly. Now, aside from seeing the
>>> real convenience of a headsail furler, I find myself questioning what size
>>> headsail would best fit most conditions encountered here throughout the
>>> year. I am also planning on purchasing a new main but that is pretty
>>> straightforward. Summer winds here are between 5-12k and then they pick up
>>> in the fall, winter and spring. As fronts move in, we?ll go out in 15-20k
>>> gusting to 25k. Over 25k we?ll usually stay in port. So here are some
>>> options I have been toiling with.
>>> 1. New main plus my present 150% genoa with added foam pad in the luff for
>>> better shape when partially furled.
>>> 2. New main plus a 125% genoa with foam pad luff ?fall/winter sail? and
>>> keep the 150% as is for summer use.
>>> 3. New main plus 135-140% genoa with foam pad luff and keep the 150% as
>>> spare.
>>>
>>> I appreciate your input. Hopefully, it won?t be as contentious as anchor
>>> selection.
>>> Marcelo
>>> #441 Alegr?a
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-List mailing list
>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-List mailing list
>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan M Bresler
>> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
>> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
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> Please support them.
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> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
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------------------------------
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