[Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 3641, Issue 2
Sheldon Shikoluk
shikshikoluk at gmail.com
Wed May 23 04:33:55 PDT 2018
a prefeeder set up just before the luff enters the foil works well
On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM, <public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Jonathan Bresler)
> 2. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Wes Gardner)
> 3. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Gordon Laco)
> 4. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Don Campbell)
> 5. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Gordon Laco)
> 6. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> (mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 19:37:54 -0400
> From: Jonathan Bresler <262alberg30 at gmail.com>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID:
> <CAHEe8TvdtTFjicUHxrKHSRsqP0=Aajh+Lgmb3OV2iS7y3Y_gvQ at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Folks,
>
> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>
> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> "quickly" part is laughable.
>
> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 20:23:43 -0400
> From: Wes Gardner <wesgardner1952 at gmail.com>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID:
> <CAFWpyHz05bNfLoo_jkeU-p3AzhxNZrVLqjgdMoNsoXxrkqeHYQ@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Jonathan,
>
> I think I'd let a sailmaker have a look...my experience with both furlers
> and twin-groove "racing" headstays is that they feed fairly effortlessly.
>
> Wes
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the
> genoa
> > can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the
> part
> > that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> > twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist
> more,
> > trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in
> place
> > of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> > clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> > it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so
> the
> > sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside.
> To
> > visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your
> nose,
> > fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right
> hand.
> > Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to
> which
> > the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> > (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
> >
> > The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and
> the
> > two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> > counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> > twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> > Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> > raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> > "quickly" part is laughable.
> >
> > So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> > the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> > having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan M Bresler
> > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > Annapolis/Eastport MD
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 20:25:25 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <63EEF845-6B07-4482-A1A4-7ED4A9F99E16 at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I?m sorry Jonathan I?ve never heard of such a thing occurring.
>
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
> > On May 22, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the
> genoa
> > can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the
> part
> > that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> > twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist
> more,
> > trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in
> place
> > of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> > clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> > it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so
> the
> > sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside.
> To
> > visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your
> nose,
> > fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right
> hand.
> > Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to
> which
> > the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> > (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
> >
> > The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and
> the
> > two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> > counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> > twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> > Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> > raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> > "quickly" part is laughable.
> >
> > So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> > the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> > having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan M Bresler
> > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > Annapolis/Eastport MD
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 22:15:54 -0400
> From: "Don Campbell" <dk.campbell at xplornet.ca>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <212B986B5EB340F087A2D95A38863AA7 at UserPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Jonathan:
> I find it an unlikely story that the dacron twists as a cause. It is
> an
> effect. I am assuming that you have a 6 mm rope in the luff tape and if
> you
> have a wire in the luff, that is not meant for running up a groove in an
> extrusion. Normally a wire luff is attached only at the head of the sail,
> with a sleeve holding it for the balance of the luff. The lower tack
> attachment is to a swivel at the deck, and that lower swivel is meant to
> take out the twist in the wire luff if there is any. Much more reasonable
> would be that your halyard twists and the swivel(s) do not allow the
> twist
> in the halyard to work itself out. Therefore the dacron starts to twist
> because of the forces of torque involved. Personally , I do not like rope
> halyards because they twist uncontrollably and stretch too easily if one
> uses anything but very expensive line with low stretch characteristics. I
> would first try the swivels (top and bottom on the furler and the one on
> the halyard) to make sure they are free to spin under load, and the
> bearings are good there: then if that is the case, either a new wire
> halyard
> or low stretch cordage, but that cordage will be more expensive than wire.
> If there is no solution to the problem with these choices, consider
> taking
> the sail in to a sailmaker and have the luff tape replaced. If the sail
> is
> blown out, consider a new sail. Even Gord Laco says that was the best
> investment for pleasurable sailing he has made!
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Bresler via Public-List
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:37 PM
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Cc: Jonathan Bresler
> Subject: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
>
> Folks,
>
> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>
> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> "quickly" part is laughable.
>
> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 22:54:10 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <BD4433BE-A704-4EC8-A6BB-93FD2872E0F2 at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Ha ha Don - true words. Yesterday I enjoyed my second jaunt with
> SURPRISE?s new genoa. Wonderful.
>
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
> > On May 22, 2018, at 10:15 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> > Jonathan:
> > I find it an unlikely story that the dacron twists as a cause. It is
> an effect. I am assuming that you have a 6 mm rope in the luff tape and if
> you have a wire in the luff, that is not meant for running up a groove in
> an extrusion. Normally a wire luff is attached only at the head of the
> sail, with a sleeve holding it for the balance of the luff. The lower tack
> attachment is to a swivel at the deck, and that lower swivel is meant to
> take out the twist in the wire luff if there is any. Much more reasonable
> would be that your halyard twists and the swivel(s) do not allow the twist
> in the halyard to work itself out. Therefore the dacron starts to twist
> because of the forces of torque involved. Personally , I do not like rope
> halyards because they twist uncontrollably and stretch too easily if one
> uses anything but very expensive line with low stretch characteristics. I
> would first try the swivels (top and bottom on the furler and the one on
> the halyard) to make sure they are
> free to spin under load, and the bearings are good there: then if that is
> the case, either a new wire halyard or low stretch cordage, but that
> cordage will be more expensive than wire. If there is no solution to the
> problem with these choices, consider taking the sail in to a sailmaker
> and have the luff tape replaced. If the sail is blown out, consider a new
> sail. Even Gord Laco says that was the best investment for pleasurable
> sailing he has made!
> > Don
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Bresler via Public-List
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:37 PM
> > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> > Cc: Jonathan Bresler
> > Subject: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the
> genoa
> > can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the
> part
> > that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> > twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist
> more,
> > trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in
> place
> > of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> > clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> > it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so
> the
> > sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside.
> To
> > visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your
> nose,
> > fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right
> hand.
> > Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to
> which
> > the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> > (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
> >
> > The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and
> the
> > two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> > counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> > twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> > Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> > raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> > "quickly" part is laughable.
> >
> > So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> > the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> > having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan M Bresler
> > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > Annapolis/Eastport MD
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 23:18:41 -0400
> From: mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <17DE1F7B-C8DA-46E7-B161-277FFF6A4A1B at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Jonathan,
>
> I?m struggling to picture what is actually getting twisted. Just the
> Dacron? What you describe seems like a loose bolt rope of a sleeved luff,
> not the typical luff tape designed for a furler foil. The ?bead? at the
> forward end of the luff tape should be tightly stitched in, the Dacron
> should not be free to rotate around it. Can you send me some pictures
> off-list?
>
> My initial thought is that even if your luff has a problem the root cause
> will be elsewhere; I think Don is on the right track suspecting a swivel,
> but I don?t know your setup.
>
> Mike N.
>
> On May 22, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>
> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> "quickly" part is laughable.
>
> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
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> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Public-List Digest, Vol 3641, Issue 2
> ********************************************
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