[Public-List] More on the rudder discussion

George Dinwiddie gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
Wed Jan 16 10:07:34 PST 2019 

That's a riveting story, Gord. Thanks!

  - George

On 1/16/19 11:42 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List wrote:
> …and all that reminds me of the season long ordeal a few years ago during the rescue of my wooden Folkboat.   I’d used up all my friends doing the riveting securing the new ribs into her hull.  All that is but for my friend Jon.   To him fell the job of ‘dolly man’ on the outside of the hull while I reserved the higher status ‘rivet man’ job inside.
> 
> After each batch of new ribs had steamed sufficiently (how long in the steam box?  My son Pete put it best.  ’Put the ribs in. Stand around with beers telling stories…when the stories turn into arguments about low long to leave the ribs in the steam, they’re done… so about an hour')
> 
> So, pull a rib out (with gloves on) and quickly pass it up to the inside man in the boat.  He puts the new rib into the notch in the keel and presses the rib against the inside of the hull planking, taking care to line it up with the tape marking the true alignment.  As soon as he’s happy, he shouts ‘go!’ to the outside man, who then drives screws with fender washers on them into the pre-drilled holes from the outside.  This holds the rib in till it cools and hardens.   Our steam box would hold four ribs.
> 
> Now for the riveting.   The outside man withdraws the first screw… and drills through the rib using the screw hole as a guide.  He then takes a copper rivet and drives it into the hole.  He then holds his dolly against the head.  The inside man (who is delivering a stream of complaining about the alignment of the protruding pointy end of the copper rivet when it appears) drives a rove over the rivet using a special rove driving tool, aka a file handle without the file. A rove is a cupped washer.  The inside man then snips the copper rivet off such that about 3/16” of a nub is left.   Inside man shouts ‘are you on?’ (referring to the dolly, held by the outside man)  The outside man shouts back ‘of course I’m on, get going!’.   The inside man starts tapping with a light hammer on the copper nub.  If there is the slightest hint of a dead ’thunk’ he begins cursing the outside man for not holding the dolly in contact.  The outside man responds with cursing, assuring the inside man that he’s ‘on’, as dust etc falls from the hull into his eyes at each hit from the inside.  The thing is that the dolly, which he’s holding overhead, pings off the rivet at each blow, and he has to very quickly replace it to be ready for the next one.   A heavier dolly wouldn’t move so much, but, well, it’s heavier.   The inside man becomes engrossed with the beauty and magic of the developing rivet so keeps hitting too fast for the outside man…   As the spreading of the inside mushroom on the rivet progresses, the two curse at each other steadily… finally the rivet is done and the inside man, admiring the smooth spread of the rivet on his side, shouts ‘okay…NEXT!’  And so it goes.
> 
> Jon and I have remained friends, but an observer watching us put hundreds of rivets in, listening to us, shook his head and walked away advising that a referee would be needed before long.
> 
> Oh it’s all funny now…
> 
> Gord
> #426 Surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:59 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jonathan - I’ve done a fair bit of riveting in boatbuilding contexts.
>>
>> Riveting is a very secure mode of fastening… it’s easy to remove a rivet by either grinding or drilling off the burr on one side, then driving the rivet out with a pin and hammer.
>>
>> Replacing the fitting by riveting involves use of a soft metal compatible with the fitting being secured… Cut a pin such that when run through the hole in the structure and fitting, about 3/16” protrudes on each side.  The fit in the hole needs to be tight.   Place a heavy mass (called ’the dolly’) on one end of the pin, and strike the other protruding end of the pin with a light hammer.  I’ve found that repeated lighter blows with a lighter hammer works better than fewer harder hits with a heavy hammer.   I’ve successfully used a hammer heavier than the one I’m hitting with as a good dolly.  Be very sure that before each hit with the hammer, the dolly is in contact with the rod/rivet.  What you don’t want is for the rod to get knocked through so you lose the protruding end which you are trying to spread.
>>
>> Why does the rod only spread at the protruding end?  Because you ensured a tight fit in the hole, there is nowhere else it can spread in response to the blows.
>>
>> Take care that the pin is remaining ‘centred’ with protrusions as equal as possible from either side… switch the side you’re hitting and the side with the dolly often.  You’ll develop a spread on each end of the pin which you can encourage and develop as the hitting progresses.   At some point the pin will become secure, and when that happens, you can really start riveting.   What happens as the spread on the end is developing, is that metal is ‘flowing’ out of the shaft area of the pin into the spread… this forces the grip of the rivet to become very tight.  Magic.
>>
>>
>> Gordon Laco
>> #426 Surprise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:48 AM, jreadams6 via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> All here are some pics of Laughing Gull's rudder  and comments. anyone have
>>> any knowledge of the rivetted type fastenings?
>>>
>>> https://alberg30maintenance.wordpress.com/2019/01/16/rudder-work/
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Jonathan Adams
>>> 443-223-2534
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> 
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-- 
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   When I remember bygone days                         George Dinwiddie
   I think how evening follows morn;            gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
   So many I loved were not yet dead,           http://www.Alberg30.org
   So many I love were not yet born.                          also see:
                'The Middle' by Ogden Nash     http://idiacomputing.com
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