[Public-List] Loose Footed vs Bolt Rope Mainsail

Mon Apr 6 09:36:02 PDT 2020

Hi Don… I have a Corvette-with-a-loose-footed-main story.

The good friends who share our jetty at Midland Bay Sailing Club have a Corvette 31… when they bought new sails a while ago they were offered a loose footed main.

One time when as usual we sailed in company with them up to Hope Island, when at anchor Gord (their Gord, not me) said ‘Gord, my arm is sore’….. it transpired that their boat had really heavy helm.   The next morning there was only a breath of air, so we whipped up their main to look at it… sure enough, the loose footed main still had the old outhaul on it, and they’d been sailing with a deep draft in the sail.  

I dug around in my kit and found him a couple of blocks and cut the tail off an old spinnaker sheet, and made him an 8:1 outhaul.   I set the sail up much flatter.

That afternoon, we set out to sail home in the nice spanking breeze.  We got away a little first… but… here they came bounding up and over took us.   As they passed Gord yelled ‘Wow - thanks a lot! The helm is light as a feather now, and look, we can keep up with you!’

He wasn’t keeping up with us, he walked away from us.   I told Caroline I was going to sneak aboard their boat some night and steal back the damned outhaul blocks… she cuffed me on the back of the head.

’No wound stings like a self inflicted one…'

Gordon Laco
#426 Surprise

> On Apr 6, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> 
>    I would agree with Gord completely, especially that cruisers get into more situations where they need the best possible sails to get home. That means that the cruiser needs to know the controls on those sails and how to use them to their maximum.  There are at least 9 controls on a foresail and many more on the main. The object of course is to keep the draft to the depth of its design and keep it in the position fore to aft in the design for both sails to maximize performance from both sails acting together. Your first job when you are buying a sail is to define and specify those details , (depth and position of draft) for the winds that you sail in to your sail maker.
>    For example,  I have a 14:1 outhaul control  on my boom, and that is for a bolt rope main. I have really good control of the foot in the groove, and hence control of tension in the sail surface towards the clew whatever the wind force. I would want more for a loose footed sail. The real difficulty comes in overpowering winds, and that is when one needs to really flatten sails. With loose footed sails that is much more difficult and I do not want a luffing leach.
>    I can give you one example of a good sail maker who was commissioned to make a loose footed sail for hull 603. The owner at the time was an engineer and a teacher. He bent the sail on and could not get any power out of the new sail because he could not overcome the weather helm, so called the maker for assistance. The sail maker went out two times to get the owner set up and the boat moving, which he accomplished to his satisfaction. The owner was not still not able to get the boat moving on future trips so the sail maker bought the sail back, because he wanted to buy a C & C Corvette, and the sail would fit that rig. That boat acquisition did not happen as he bought a Shark! However, that sail is now on a Corvette and that owner is enjoying it on that boat. There is no comparison on the designs of those two hulls or rigs.
>    For these reasons, and the issue of helm,  which is a bit worse than it might be because the rig was designed as a fractional rig with the mast more forward than it is, I would not deviate from what works for most of us for the last 50 + years, and that is a bolt rope in the foot.
> Don Campbell
> For sail trim, I suggest Dr. Stuart Walker's  A Manual of Sail Trim, or the materials from North Sails on trim. These are books, which you have time to read right now, and if need be, take them on the boat if you need to try things !
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Gordon Laco via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
> Sent: 2020-04-06 11:08:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Loose Footed vs Bolt Rope Mainsail
> 
>> Hello Clay -
>> 
>> A loose footed main is a nice thing in some types of boat, but not in ours.   The extra depth one can put into the mainsail (deeper draft = more power) is not useable because of the heavy helm it causes.
>> 
>> You’ll find no benefit, furling may be a little tougher.  Your sailmaker is correct with the comment about no loss of strength, but you’ll need a stronger outhaul… you’ll need power to pull the sail flat enough to be effective… and once you’ve got it there, you’ll see ‘hey wait a minute, the foot is right along the boom anyway…'
>> 
>> Loose footed is cheaper and less work for the sail maker… if they’re promoting that type of foot, it should come with a reduction in price.
>> 
>> You don’t race so no point in discussing it would be an illegal sail.
>> 
>> I’m one of those who both cruise and race… and I’ve been known to pound the table spilling other people’s beer expounding that performance is really more of interest to cruisers than racers.  A yacht away on a cruise is much more likely to be in a situation where she’s got to do her best to get you home.  Crappy sails and rigging ‘good enough for cruising’ are really not good enough at all when the chips are down….
>> 
>> Did you hear the rising violins?   I’m pounding my desk now...
>> 
>> Gordon Laco
>> 426 Surprise
>> http://www.gordonlaco.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 6, 2020, at 11:01 AM, Clay Pass via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I am having a new mainsail made by Bacon's and the issue of loose foot vs.
>>> bolt rope has come up.  Given that I am not racing, but planning on
>>> cruising exclusively, are there recommendations regarding a loose footed
>>> sail?  Most that I read online recommends the loose foot design and in fact
>>> Bacon's says that it is rare that they make any bolt rope sails any more.
>>> I was initially concerned that the loose foot may not be as robust under
>>> heavy weather conditions, but it seems that many say they are equivalent.
>>> Is there any reason not to have the loose foot?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Clay Pass
>>> #449 Seeing Deep
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