[Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in? Traveller track too
Don Campbell
dk.campbell at xplornet.ca
Sun Apr 26 10:26:50 PDT 2020
Hi Folks:
A couple of comments from the cheap seats here.
The first survey I had done on #528 was by an old salt and he knew
Albergs well. His comment was that the cover over the ballast was never
very secure on the bow under the vee berth and with twisting on the
water, those bonds on those surfaces let go. His suggestion was to never
let the boat go to salt water without re-glassing that area because he
did not want to ever see a rusty ballast (which could expand and break
the seam between half hulls. One can inspect this area by taking out all
the surfaces out of the vee berth. Persephone had this job done before
she was shipped to Nova Scotia from Ontario.
As for travellers, H***ken makes two styles (1510 and 1511) that are
even drilled for the bolt pattern that the old one has so it was just a
matter of getting one slightly longer and cutting to fit by measurement
to the exisiting the bolt holes. I did epoxy a larger hole before
fitting so that the core was waterproofed. Like Gord, I just used the
bolts to draw the rail into the deck surface. (I had to use longer ones
than normal to get the ends to come down as I went.) The old track was
long enough that the side coaming was cut away to accomodate the track,
If you have those boards off, you can match the length but if not, it
then depends upon what blocks you put on the ends of the track to adjust
the car.
Don
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gordon Laco via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>; "Adam Cue"
<adamquenneville at gmail.com>
Sent: 2020-04-26 12:30:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
>Good day Adam,
>
>I think pouring hot pitch down there would be difficult and perhaps dangerous…. I’m afraid I don’t have a suggestion. If that much water was in the boat for a prolonged period of time, I regret to suggest that all the bulkheads and any other woodwork inside her is likely compromised and needs to be replaced. In our boats the main bulkheads in way of the head and hanging locker are structural. They need to be in good shape for the boat to be safe.
>
>That said, immersion by itself shouldn’t affect the fibreglass laminations over the ballast… perhaps the water froze in successive winters and tore it up off the inside of the bilges? I don’t know where you are so don’t know if you’re in a place where things freeze in the winter.
>
>Gordon Laco
>#426 Surprise
>http://www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
>> On Apr 26, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Adam Cue via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gordon,
>>
>> Many thanks for the reply.
>>
>> A bit of background might help. The boat has been on the hard for about 12
>> years per the previous owner. The bilge was full of water from rainwater
>> entering over the years (cockpit and deck drain lines were compromised).
>>
>> The fiberglass "cap" over the ballast was delaminated near the head, the
>> v-berth, and where the holding tank was. Rainwater reached that level and
>> then entered the keel unchecked.
>>
>> Yesterday I removed the majority of the filler which surrounds the ballast.
>> There is standing water at the bottom of the keel. So, the keel seems to be
>> water tight or close to it.
>>
>> At this point, I'm going to drill some small holes at the bottom of the
>> keel and let it drain out.
>>
>> Then I'll need to replace the filler material around the iron ballast. Any
>> suggestions on what to use?
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 03:51 , <public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org>
>> wrote:
>>
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>>> ======================================================
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Reefing Cringle's (John Irving)
>>> 2. What is the ballast bedded in? (Adam Quenneville)
>>> 3. Re: What is the ballast bedded in? (Gordon Laco)
>>> 4. A-4 Two blade propeller survey (charles pleisse)
>>> 5. Re: A-4 Two blade propeller survey (Greg Hounsell)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:12:09 -0400
>>> From: John Irving <jirvingvt at gmail.com>
>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Reefing Cringle's
>>> Message-ID: <A79DDE9E-E12C-4C72-873B-332F0E78500E at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>> The sail area further from the mast causes greater tension on the sheet
>>> than the sail area closer to the mast. The center of effort from the sail
>>> area in the first reef would be further from the mast than the 2nd reef.
>>> If the sail area of the first reef were the same as the second reef, the
>>> reduction in sheet tension would be more in the first reef than the second
>>> reef.
>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
>>>public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?If you are asking how far up the luff the reefing cringles are located,
>>>> for Constance the first reef cringle is 4' above the tack and the second
>>>> reef cringle is 8' above the tack. This results in sail area reductions
>>> of
>>>> 25% and 45% respectively.
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>> Aside:
>>>> Does the formula for pull on sheets (sq ft * kts * kts / 232) equate to
>>> the
>>>> force on the sail such that a 25% reduction in sail area produces both a
>>>> 25% reduction in sheet load AND a 25% reduction in force on the sail.
>>>> Would think so, but dont know that I have ever seen it said so.
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:52 AM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
>>>>>public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Greg,
>>>>>
>>>>> That?s probably different in every boat. If your boom already has
>>>>> reefing gear mounted on it, those will be your guiding measurements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ideally you want the clew reef line to pull outboard along the boom
>>>>> somewhat, rather in the style of an outhaul so that you end up with a
>>>>> reefed sail that is flat, and there is utterly no load whatsoever on the
>>>>> reef points, if you use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?ve set up SURPRISE?s reefing so that the clew reefing line starts at
>>> the
>>>>> end of the boom, goes up to the reef clew, then down to a cheek block on
>>>>> the boom at a slight angle aft. That way when the reef is pulled down,
>>> the
>>>>> new foot of the sail is very hard tight and the sail is flat. The
>>> working
>>>>> end of the reefing line then runs up along the boom to a cleat near the
>>>>> gooseneck, so it?s easy to reef whatever the position of the boom.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gordon Laco
>>>>>http://www.gordonlaco.com
>>>>> #426 Surprise
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <
>>>>>public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Morning Hive-mind!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would anyone have approximate measurements for the distance of your
>>> main
>>>>>> reefing cringles from the foot of the sail? My main is where I cannot
>>>>>> access right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Greg H
>>>>>> #592
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonathan M Bresler
>>>> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
>>>> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:49:07 -0400
>>> From: Adam Quenneville <adamquenneville at gmail.com>
>>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>> Subject: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
>>> Message-ID: <a2d0666b-60bb-2b47-8447-016b31c67289 at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Hull #581 here. 1975.
>>>
>>> The fiberglass covering the ballast was compromised and leaking. It had
>>> been repaired previously but unfortunately the bond did not hold. I've
>>> removed the fiberglass and exposed the ballast/keel cavity.
>>>
>>> The iron ballast is set in some type of sandy compound, which is wet
>>> with water and some oil. It almost seems like a clay and sand mix, but
>>> from what I've heard about other boats, some times vermiculite was used.
>>> I have come across a lot of vermiculite in my life, and none of it
>>> looked like what surrounds my ballast.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know with certainty what was used to bed/set the ballast in
>>> the keel cavity in Alberg 30s?
>>>
>>> I ask because the bedding compound (if we can call it that) is about 1"
>>> below the top of the ballast. I would like to fill it flush before
>>> fibreglassing over it.
>>>
>>> If a direct replacement isn't available, can anyone suggest an
>>> alternative material? Either foam of topping/sand mix crossed my mind.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:29:55 -0400
>>> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
>>> Message-ID: <5D9315D8-D9A0-47D5-A0C8-224B6B0E0D7A at csolve.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>> Hello Adam -
>>>
>>> The glass above the iron casting isn?t intended to be watertight? its
>>> purpose is to keep the encapsulated casting down in position should the
>>> yacht assume an extreme angle of heel. If you?ve got water coming up,
>>> that?s an indication that there?s damage to the exterior of the keel. This
>>> is a common issue caused by striking rocks etc over the years of service.
>>> Alberg 30?s can develop a crack down the centre of the ?knuckle? of the
>>> keel, the part down low where the keel would strike something.
>>>
>>> The cure is to grind away damaged lamination and repair with thickened
>>> epoxy and cloth held in place with waxed paper, cardboard and tape till it
>>> cures. Messy, but not very difficult to do.
>>>
>>> Traditionally tar was poured down into keel voids? we supply Jeffrey?s #2
>>> for this purpose, also for laid deck seams in large vessels. It comes in
>>> blocks which one chips off pieces as needed, melts then pours into the
>>> voids with an iron ladle. It has rubber in the ingredients, so remains
>>> flexible. It adheres, but not so much you can?t get it out if you have
>>> to.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gordon Laco
>>> #426 Surprise
>>>http://www.gordonlaco.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Adam Quenneville via Public-List <
>>>public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Hull #581 here. 1975.
>>>>
>>>> The fiberglass covering the ballast was compromised and leaking. It had
>>> been repaired previously but unfortunately the bond did not hold. I've
>>> removed the fiberglass and exposed the ballast/keel cavity.
>>>>
>>>> The iron ballast is set in some type of sandy compound, which is wet
>>> with water and some oil. It almost seems like a clay and sand mix, but from
>>> what I've heard about other boats, some times vermiculite was used. I have
>>> come across a lot of vermiculite in my life, and none of it looked like
>>> what surrounds my ballast.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know with certainty what was used to bed/set the ballast in
>>> the keel cavity in Alberg 30s?
>>>>
>>>> I ask because the bedding compound (if we can call it that) is about 1"
>>> below the top of the ballast. I would like to fill it flush before
>>> fibreglassing over it.
>>>>
>>>> If a direct replacement isn't available, can anyone suggest an
>>> alternative material? Either foam of topping/sand mix crossed my mind.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>> Please support them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Public-List mailing list
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>>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:10:08 -0400
>>> From: charles pleisse <velocharles1 at gmail.com>
>>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>> Subject: [Public-List] A-4 Two blade propeller survey
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAGwh+2QajEERnFG=
>>>QyFV+R6p+Zu4z0s_jLJiR9mTfF-uRRADSg at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>>
>>> If your Alberg 30 has an Atomic 4 with a two blade prop,
>>> What diameter is you propeller?
>>> What is the pitch is your prop?
>>> At what RPM do you achieve hull speed?
>>> How content are you with,
>>> forward thrust
>>> reverse thrust
>>> amount of prop walk
>>>
>>> Charles Pleisse
>>> Sookie #221
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 14:08:18 -0400
>>> From: Greg Hounsell <greg.hounsell at gmail.com>
>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] A-4 Two blade propeller survey
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAF=smri5oYw5fB0DO-9nefZQfznmn==M9d11pSbA=
>>>USBP0AmTQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>>
>>> Afternoon
>>>
>>> I have a 13" x 7" prop. It came with the boat and not happy with it at all.
>>> The Atomic on reaches around 1400rpms and that's it. It also only leaves
>>> about a 3/4" Gap at the top.
>>> In Marinas constantly in and out of gear at idle otherwise speed too fast
>>> and major propwalk in reverse.
>>>
>>> It does plow through headwinds and 1-2m waves easily.
>>>
>>> Purchased the Indigo 3 blade this winter. Maybe we'll get to try it this
>>> season??
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Greg #592
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 1:10 PM charles pleisse via Public-List <
>>>public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If your Alberg 30 has an Atomic 4 with a two blade prop,
>>>> What diameter is you propeller?
>>>> What is the pitch is your prop?
>>>> At what RPM do you achieve hull speed?
>>>> How content are you with,
>>>> forward thrust
>>>> reverse thrust
>>>> amount of prop walk
>>>>
>>>> Charles Pleisse
>>>> Sookie #221
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>> Please support them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Public-List mailing list
>>>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
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>>>
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>>> End of Public-List Digest, Vol 3997, Issue 1
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
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