[Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?

Don Campbell dk.campbell at xplornet.ca
Sun Apr 26 11:48:13 PDT 2020


The rate at which it will expand is determined by the surface area that 
rusts. One big mass will expand less than a bucket of washers.
Don

------ Original Message ------
From: "Phil H via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" 
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: "Phil H" <cphopewell at gmail.com>
Sent: 2020-04-26 1:29:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?

>Hi, I dealt with water in that area by installing a garboard plug at the
>lowest point at the front of the keel. I also noticed the “sandy” substance
>inside.
>Just curious, though, is the cast iron rusty. If it is, even if you
>encapsulate it in epoxy, wouldn’t it continue to rust, even at a slower
>pace and eventually split the keel open? That’s my big fear.
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Adam Cue via Public-List <
>public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
>>  Hi Gordon,
>>
>>  Many thanks for the reply.
>>
>>  A bit of background might help. The boat has been on the hard for about 12
>>  years per the previous owner. The bilge was full of water from rainwater
>>  entering over the years (cockpit and deck drain lines were compromised).
>>
>>  The fiberglass "cap" over the ballast was delaminated near the head, the
>>  v-berth, and where the holding tank was. Rainwater reached that level and
>>  then entered the keel unchecked.
>>
>>  Yesterday I removed the majority of the filler which surrounds the ballast.
>>  There is standing water at the bottom of the keel. So, the keel seems to be
>>  water tight or close to it.
>>
>>  At this point, I'm going to drill some small holes at the bottom of the
>>  keel and let it drain out.
>>
>>  Then I'll need to replace the filler material around the iron ballast. Any
>>  suggestions on what to use?
>>
>>
>>  Thanks!
>>
>>
>>  On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 03:51 , <public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  > Send Public-List mailing list submissions to
>>  >         public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>  >
>>  > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>  >         http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  >         public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>>  >
>>  > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  >         public-list-owner at lists.alberg30.org
>>  >
>>  > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>  > than "Re: Contents of Public-List digest..."
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Please do NOT include the entire digest in your reply!
>>  > ======================================================
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Today's Topics:
>>  >
>>  >    1. Re: Reefing Cringle's (John Irving)
>>  >    2. What is the ballast bedded in? (Adam Quenneville)
>>  >    3. Re: What is the ballast bedded in? (Gordon Laco)
>>  >    4. A-4 Two blade propeller survey (charles pleisse)
>>  >    5. Re: A-4 Two blade propeller survey (Greg Hounsell)
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Message: 1
>>  > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:12:09 -0400
>>  > From: John Irving <jirvingvt at gmail.com>
>>  > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>  >         <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>  > Subject: Re: [Public-List] Reefing Cringle's
>>  > Message-ID: <A79DDE9E-E12C-4C72-873B-332F0E78500E at gmail.com>
>>  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>  >
>>  > The sail area further from the mast causes greater tension on the sheet
>>  > than the sail area closer to the mast.  The center of effort from the
>>  sail
>>  > area in the first reef would be further from the mast than the 2nd reef.
>>  > If the sail area of the first reef were the same as the second reef, the
>>  > reduction in sheet tension would be more in the first reef than the
>>  second
>>  > reef.
>>  >
>>  > > On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
>>  > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > ?If you are asking how far up the luff the reefing cringles are
>>  located,
>>  > > for Constance the first reef cringle is 4' above the tack and the
>>  second
>>  > > reef cringle is 8' above the tack.  This results in sail area
>>  reductions
>>  > of
>>  > > 25% and 45% respectively.
>>  > >
>>  > > Jonathan
>>  > >
>>  > > Aside:
>>  > > Does the formula for pull on sheets (sq ft * kts * kts / 232) equate to
>>  > the
>>  > > force on the sail such that a 25% reduction in sail area produces both
>>  a
>>  > > 25% reduction in sheet load AND a 25% reduction in force on the sail.
>>  > > Would think so, but dont know that I have ever seen it said so.
>>  > >
>>  > > Jonathan
>>  > >
>>  > >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:52 AM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
>>  > >> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>  > >>
>>  > >> Hello Greg,
>>  > >>
>>  > >> That?s probably different in every boat.   If your boom already has
>>  > >> reefing gear mounted on it, those will be your guiding measurements.
>>  > >>
>>  > >> Ideally you want the clew reef line to pull outboard along the boom
>>  > >> somewhat, rather in the style of an outhaul so that you end up with a
>>  > >> reefed sail that is flat, and there is utterly no load whatsoever on
>>  the
>>  > >> reef points, if you use them.
>>  > >>
>>  > >> I?ve set up SURPRISE?s reefing so that the clew reefing line starts at
>>  > the
>>  > >> end of the boom, goes up to the reef clew, then down to a cheek block
>>  on
>>  > >> the boom at a slight angle aft.  That way when the reef is pulled
>>  down,
>>  > the
>>  > >> new foot of the sail is very hard tight and the sail is flat.   The
>>  > working
>>  > >> end of the reefing line then runs up along the boom to a cleat near
>>  the
>>  > >> gooseneck, so it?s easy to reef whatever the position of the boom.
>>  > >>
>>  > >>
>>  > >> Gordon Laco
>>  > >> http://www.gordonlaco.com
>>  > >> #426 Surprise
>>  > >>
>>  > >>
>>  > >>
>>  > >>> On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <
>>  > >> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>  > >>>
>>  > >>> Morning Hive-mind!
>>  > >>>
>>  > >>> Would anyone have approximate measurements for the distance of your
>>  > main
>>  > >>> reefing cringles from the foot of the sail? My main is where I cannot
>>  > >>> access right now.
>>  > >>>
>>  > >>> Cheers
>>  > >>> Greg H
>>  > >>> #592
>>  > >>> _______________________________________________
>>  > >>> These businesses support your Association:
>>  > >>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  > >>> Please support them.
>>  > >>> _______________________________________________
>>  > >>> Public-List mailing list
>>  > >>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > >>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  > >>
>>  > >> _______________________________________________
>>  > >> These businesses support your Association:
>>  > >> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  > >> Please support them.
>>  > >> _______________________________________________
>>  > >> Public-List mailing list
>>  > >> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > >> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  > >>
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > --
>>  > > Jonathan M Bresler
>>  > > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
>>  > > Annapolis/Eastport MD
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > These businesses support your Association:
>>  > > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  > > Please support them.
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > Public-List mailing list
>>  > > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Message: 2
>>  > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:49:07 -0400
>>  > From: Adam Quenneville <adamquenneville at gmail.com>
>>  > To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > Subject: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
>>  > Message-ID: <a2d0666b-60bb-2b47-8447-016b31c67289 at gmail.com>
>>  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>  >
>>  > Hi all,
>>  >
>>  > Hull #581 here. 1975.
>>  >
>>  > The fiberglass covering the ballast was compromised and leaking. It had
>>  > been repaired previously but unfortunately the bond did not hold. I've
>>  > removed the fiberglass and exposed the ballast/keel cavity.
>>  >
>>  > The iron ballast is set in some type of sandy compound, which is wet
>>  > with water and some oil. It almost seems like a clay and sand mix, but
>>  > from what I've heard about other boats, some times vermiculite was used.
>>  > I have come across a lot of vermiculite in my life, and none of it
>>  > looked like what surrounds my ballast.
>>  >
>>  > Does anyone know with certainty what was used to bed/set the ballast in
>>  > the keel cavity in Alberg 30s?
>>  >
>>  > I ask because the bedding compound (if we can call it that) is about 1"
>>  > below the top of the ballast. I would like to fill it flush before
>>  > fibreglassing over it.
>>  >
>>  > If a direct replacement isn't available, can anyone suggest an
>>  > alternative material? Either foam of topping/sand mix crossed my mind.
>>  >
>>  > Many thanks,
>>  >
>>  > Adam
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Message: 3
>>  > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:29:55 -0400
>>  > From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
>>  > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>  >         <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>  > Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
>>  > Message-ID: <5D9315D8-D9A0-47D5-A0C8-224B6B0E0D7A at csolve.net>
>>  > Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>>  >
>>  > Hello Adam -
>>  >
>>  > The glass above the iron casting isn?t intended to be watertight? its
>>  > purpose is to keep the encapsulated casting down in position should the
>>  > yacht assume an extreme angle of heel.   If you?ve got water coming up,
>>  > that?s an indication that there?s damage to the exterior of the keel.
>>  This
>>  > is a common issue caused by striking rocks etc over the years of service.
>>  >  Alberg 30?s can develop a crack down the centre of the ?knuckle? of the
>>  > keel, the part down low where the keel would strike something.
>>  >
>>  > The cure is to grind away damaged lamination and repair with thickened
>>  > epoxy and cloth held in place with waxed paper, cardboard and tape till
>>  it
>>  > cures.  Messy, but not very difficult to do.
>>  >
>>  > Traditionally tar was poured down into keel voids? we supply Jeffrey?s #2
>>  > for this purpose, also for laid deck seams in large vessels.  It comes in
>>  > blocks which one chips off pieces as needed, melts then pours into the
>>  > voids with an iron ladle.  It has rubber in the ingredients, so remains
>>  > flexible.  It adheres, but not so much you can?t get it out if you have
>>  > to.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Gordon Laco
>>  > #426 Surprise
>>  > http://www.gordonlaco.com
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > > On Apr 24, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Adam Quenneville via Public-List <
>>  > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > Hi all,
>>  > >
>>  > > Hull #581 here. 1975.
>>  > >
>>  > > The fiberglass covering the ballast was compromised and leaking. It had
>>  > been repaired previously but unfortunately the bond did not hold. I've
>>  > removed the fiberglass and exposed the ballast/keel cavity.
>>  > >
>>  > > The iron ballast is set in some type of sandy compound, which is wet
>>  > with water and some oil. It almost seems like a clay and sand mix, but
>>  from
>>  > what I've heard about other boats, some times vermiculite was used. I
>>  have
>>  > come across a lot of vermiculite in my life, and none of it looked like
>>  > what surrounds my ballast.
>>  > >
>>  > > Does anyone know with certainty what was used to bed/set the ballast in
>>  > the keel cavity in Alberg 30s?
>>  > >
>>  > > I ask because the bedding compound (if we can call it that) is about 1"
>>  > below the top of the ballast. I would like to fill it flush before
>>  > fibreglassing over it.
>>  > >
>>  > > If a direct replacement isn't available, can anyone suggest an
>>  > alternative material? Either foam of topping/sand mix crossed my mind.
>>  > >
>>  > > Many thanks,
>>  > >
>>  > > Adam
>>  > >
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > These businesses support your Association:
>>  > > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  > > Please support them.
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > Public-List mailing list
>>  > > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Message: 4
>>  > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:10:08 -0400
>>  > From: charles pleisse <velocharles1 at gmail.com>
>>  > To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > Subject: [Public-List] A-4 Two blade propeller survey
>>  > Message-ID:
>>  >         <CAGwh+2QajEERnFG=
>>  > QyFV+R6p+Zu4z0s_jLJiR9mTfF-uRRADSg at mail.gmail.com>
>>  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>  >
>>  > If your Alberg 30 has an Atomic 4 with a two blade prop,
>>  > What diameter is you propeller?
>>  > What is the pitch is your prop?
>>  > At what RPM do you achieve hull speed?
>>  > How content are you  with,
>>  > forward thrust
>>  > reverse thrust
>>  > amount of prop walk
>>  >
>>  > Charles Pleisse
>>  > Sookie #221
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Message: 5
>>  > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 14:08:18 -0400
>>  > From: Greg Hounsell <greg.hounsell at gmail.com>
>>  > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>  >         <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>  > Subject: Re: [Public-List] A-4 Two blade propeller survey
>>  > Message-ID:
>>  >         <CAF=smri5oYw5fB0DO-9nefZQfznmn==M9d11pSbA=
>>  > USBP0AmTQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>  >
>>  > Afternoon
>>  >
>>  > I have a 13" x 7" prop. It came with the boat and not happy with it at
>>  all.
>>  > The Atomic on reaches around 1400rpms and that's it. It also only leaves
>>  > about a 3/4" Gap at the top.
>>  > In Marinas constantly in and out of gear at idle otherwise speed too fast
>>  > and major propwalk in reverse.
>>  >
>>  > It does plow through headwinds and 1-2m waves easily.
>>  >
>>  > Purchased the Indigo 3 blade this winter. Maybe we'll get to try it this
>>  > season??
>>  >
>>  > Cheers
>>  > Greg #592
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 1:10 PM charles pleisse via Public-List <
>>  > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > > If your Alberg 30 has an Atomic 4 with a two blade prop,
>>  > > What diameter is you propeller?
>>  > > What is the pitch is your prop?
>>  > > At what RPM do you achieve hull speed?
>>  > > How content are you  with,
>>  > > forward thrust
>>  > > reverse thrust
>>  > > amount of prop walk
>>  > >
>>  > > Charles Pleisse
>>  > > Sookie #221
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > These businesses support your Association:
>>  > > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  > > Please support them.
>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>  > > Public-List mailing list
>>  > > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > Subject: Digest Footer
>>  >
>>  > _______________________________________________
>>  > These businesses support your Association:
>>  > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  > Please support them.
>>  > _______________________________________________
>>  > Public-List mailing list
>>  > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>  > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------
>>  >
>>  > End of Public-List Digest, Vol 3997, Issue 1
>>  > ********************************************
>>  >
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  These businesses support your Association:
>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>  Please support them.
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Public-List mailing list
>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>
>_______________________________________________
>These businesses support your Association:
>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>Please support them.
>_______________________________________________
>Public-List mailing list
>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org




More information about the Public-List mailing list