[Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
Greg Dawson
gregdaws at aol.co.uk
Sun Apr 26 13:27:30 PDT 2020
Hi there
Is the ballast a solid lump of cast iron or pig iron set in concrete. Is splitting due to rust a common problem?
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil H via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>; Don Campbell <dk.campbell at xplornet.ca>
Cc: Phil H <cphopewell at gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 26, 2020 03:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
I had thought that if worse came to worse, I could make a cut in one side
of the keel, remove the cast iron block sideways, have it sandblasted, coat
it in epoxy, slide it back in, fibreglass over the hole and pour epoxy down
from above to seal it. Obviously a huge job, but is there any other option?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 3:48 PM Don Campbell via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> The rate at which it will expand is determined by the surface area that
> rusts. One big mass will expand less than a bucket of washers.
> Don
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Phil H via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: "Phil H" <cphopewell at gmail.com>
> Sent: 2020-04-26 1:29:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
>
> >Hi, I dealt with water in that area by installing a garboard plug at the
> >lowest point at the front of the keel. I also noticed the “sandy”
> substance
> >inside.
> >Just curious, though, is the cast iron rusty. If it is, even if you
> >encapsulate it in epoxy, wouldn’t it continue to rust, even at a slower
> >pace and eventually split the keel open? That’s my big fear.
> >
> >On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Adam Cue via Public-List <
> >public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Gordon,
> >>
> >> Many thanks for the reply.
> >>
> >> A bit of background might help. The boat has been on the hard for
> about 12
> >> years per the previous owner. The bilge was full of water from
> rainwater
> >> entering over the years (cockpit and deck drain lines were
> compromised).
> >>
> >> The fiberglass "cap" over the ballast was delaminated near the head,
> the
> >> v-berth, and where the holding tank was. Rainwater reached that level
> and
> >> then entered the keel unchecked.
> >>
> >> Yesterday I removed the majority of the filler which surrounds the
> ballast.
> >> There is standing water at the bottom of the keel. So, the keel seems
> to be
> >> water tight or close to it.
> >>
> >> At this point, I'm going to drill some small holes at the bottom of the
> >> keel and let it drain out.
> >>
> >> Then I'll need to replace the filler material around the iron ballast.
> Any
> >> suggestions on what to use?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 03:51 , <public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org>
> >> wrote:
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Today's Topics:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Re: Reefing Cringle's (John Irving)
> >> > 2. What is the ballast bedded in? (Adam Quenneville)
> >> > 3. Re: What is the ballast bedded in? (Gordon Laco)
> >> > 4. A-4 Two blade propeller survey (charles pleisse)
> >> > 5. Re: A-4 Two blade propeller survey (Greg Hounsell)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Message: 1
> >> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:12:09 -0400
> >> > From: John Irving <jirvingvt at gmail.com>
> >> > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> >> > <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Public-List] Reefing Cringle's
> >> > Message-ID: <A79DDE9E-E12C-4C72-873B-332F0E78500E at gmail.com>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >> >
> >> > The sail area further from the mast causes greater tension on the
> sheet
> >> > than the sail area closer to the mast. The center of effort from the
> >> sail
> >> > area in the first reef would be further from the mast than the 2nd
> reef.
> >> > If the sail area of the first reef were the same as the second reef,
> the
> >> > reduction in sheet tension would be more in the first reef than the
> >> second
> >> > reef.
> >> >
> >> > > On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> >> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > ?If you are asking how far up the luff the reefing cringles are
> >> located,
> >> > > for Constance the first reef cringle is 4' above the tack and the
> >> second
> >> > > reef cringle is 8' above the tack. This results in sail area
> >> reductions
> >> > of
> >> > > 25% and 45% respectively.
> >> > >
> >> > > Jonathan
> >> > >
> >> > > Aside:
> >> > > Does the formula for pull on sheets (sq ft * kts * kts / 232)
> equate to
> >> > the
> >> > > force on the sail such that a 25% reduction in sail area produces
> both
> >> a
> >> > > 25% reduction in sheet load AND a 25% reduction in force on the
> sail.
> >> > > Would think so, but dont know that I have ever seen it said so.
> >> > >
> >> > > Jonathan
> >> > >
> >> > >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:52 AM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
> >> > >> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hello Greg,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> That?s probably different in every boat. If your boom already
> has
> >> > >> reefing gear mounted on it, those will be your guiding
> measurements.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Ideally you want the clew reef line to pull outboard along the
> boom
> >> > >> somewhat, rather in the style of an outhaul so that you end up
> with a
> >> > >> reefed sail that is flat, and there is utterly no load whatsoever
> on
> >> the
> >> > >> reef points, if you use them.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I?ve set up SURPRISE?s reefing so that the clew reefing line
> starts at
> >> > the
> >> > >> end of the boom, goes up to the reef clew, then down to a cheek
> block
> >> on
> >> > >> the boom at a slight angle aft. That way when the reef is pulled
> >> down,
> >> > the
> >> > >> new foot of the sail is very hard tight and the sail is flat.
> The
> >> > working
> >> > >> end of the reefing line then runs up along the boom to a cleat
> near
> >> the
> >> > >> gooseneck, so it?s easy to reef whatever the position of the boom.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Gordon Laco
> >> > >> http://www.gordonlaco.com
> >> > >> #426 Surprise
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> On Apr 24, 2020, at 10:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <
> >> > >> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Morning Hive-mind!
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Would anyone have approximate measurements for the distance of
> your
> >> > main
> >> > >>> reefing cringles from the foot of the sail? My main is where I
> cannot
> >> > >>> access right now.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Cheers
> >> > >>> Greg H
> >> > >>> #592
> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
> >> > >>> These businesses support your Association:
> >> > >>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> > >>> Please support them.
> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
> >> > >>> Public-List mailing list
> >> > >>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> >> > >>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >> > >>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> These businesses support your Association:
> >> > >> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> > >> Please support them.
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Public-List mailing list
> >> > >> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> >> > >> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Jonathan M Bresler
> >> > > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> >> > > Annapolis/Eastport MD
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > These businesses support your Association:
> >> > > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> > > Please support them.
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Message: 2
> >> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:49:07 -0400
> >> > From: Adam Quenneville <adamquenneville at gmail.com>
> >> > To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> >> > Subject: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
> >> > Message-ID: <a2d0666b-60bb-2b47-8447-016b31c67289 at gmail.com>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >> >
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > Hull #581 here. 1975.
> >> >
> >> > The fiberglass covering the ballast was compromised and leaking. It
> had
> >> > been repaired previously but unfortunately the bond did not hold.
> I've
> >> > removed the fiberglass and exposed the ballast/keel cavity.
> >> >
> >> > The iron ballast is set in some type of sandy compound, which is wet
> >> > with water and some oil. It almost seems like a clay and sand mix,
> but
> >> > from what I've heard about other boats, some times vermiculite was
> used.
> >> > I have come across a lot of vermiculite in my life, and none of it
> >> > looked like what surrounds my ballast.
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone know with certainty what was used to bed/set the ballast
> in
> >> > the keel cavity in Alberg 30s?
> >> >
> >> > I ask because the bedding compound (if we can call it that) is about
> 1"
> >> > below the top of the ballast. I would like to fill it flush before
> >> > fibreglassing over it.
> >> >
> >> > If a direct replacement isn't available, can anyone suggest an
> >> > alternative material? Either foam of topping/sand mix crossed my
> mind.
> >> >
> >> > Many thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Adam
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Message: 3
> >> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:29:55 -0400
> >> > From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> >> > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> >> > <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Public-List] What is the ballast bedded in?
> >> > Message-ID: <5D9315D8-D9A0-47D5-A0C8-224B6B0E0D7A at csolve.net>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >> >
> >> > Hello Adam -
> >> >
> >> > The glass above the iron casting isn?t intended to be watertight? its
> >> > purpose is to keep the encapsulated casting down in position should
> the
> >> > yacht assume an extreme angle of heel. If you?ve got water coming
> up,
> >> > that?s an indication that there?s damage to the exterior of the keel.
> >> This
> >> > is a common issue caused by striking rocks etc over the years of
> service.
> >> > Alberg 30?s can develop a crack down the centre of the ?knuckle? of
> the
> >> > keel, the part down low where the keel would strike something.
> >> >
> >> > The cure is to grind away damaged lamination and repair with
> thickened
> >> > epoxy and cloth held in place with waxed paper, cardboard and tape
> till
> >> it
> >> > cures. Messy, but not very difficult to do.
> >> >
> >> > Traditionally tar was poured down into keel voids? we supply
> Jeffrey?s #2
> >> > for this purpose, also for laid deck seams in large vessels. It
> comes in
> >> > blocks which one chips off pieces as needed, melts then pours into
> the
> >> > voids with an iron ladle. It has rubber in the ingredients, so
> remains
> >> > flexible. It adheres, but not so much you can?t get it out if you
> have
> >> > to.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gordon Laco
> >> > #426 Surprise
> >> > http://www.gordonlaco.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > On Apr 24, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Adam Quenneville via Public-List <
> >> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi all,
> >> > >
> >> > > Hull #581 here. 1975.
> >> > >
> >> > > The fiberglass covering the ballast was compromised and leaking.
> It had
> >> > been repaired previously but unfortunately the bond did not hold.
> I've
> >> > removed the fiberglass and exposed the ballast/keel cavity.
> >> > >
> >> > > The iron ballast is set in some type of sandy compound, which is
> wet
> >> > with water and some oil. It almost seems like a clay and sand mix,
> but
> >> from
> >> > what I've heard about other boats, some times vermiculite was used. I
> >> have
> >> > come across a lot of vermiculite in my life, and none of it looked
> like
> >> > what surrounds my ballast.
> >> > >
> >> > > Does anyone know with certainty what was used to bed/set the
> ballast in
> >> > the keel cavity in Alberg 30s?
> >> > >
> >> > > I ask because the bedding compound (if we can call it that) is
> about 1"
> >> > below the top of the ballast. I would like to fill it flush before
> >> > fibreglassing over it.
> >> > >
> >> > > If a direct replacement isn't available, can anyone suggest an
> >> > alternative material? Either foam of topping/sand mix crossed my
> mind.
> >> > >
> >> > > Many thanks,
> >> > >
> >> > > Adam
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > These businesses support your Association:
> >> > > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> > > Please support them.
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Public-List mailing list
> >> > > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> >> > > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Message: 4
> >> > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:10:08 -0400
> >> > From: charles pleisse <velocharles1 at gmail.com>
> >> > To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> >> > Subject: [Public-List] A-4 Two blade propeller survey
> >> > Message-ID:
> >> > <CAGwh+2QajEERnFG=
> >> > QyFV+R6p+Zu4z0s_jLJiR9mTfF-uRRADSg at mail.gmail.com>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >> >
> >> > If your Alberg 30 has an Atomic 4 with a two blade prop,
> >> > What diameter is you propeller?
> >> > What is the pitch is your prop?
> >> > At what RPM do you achieve hull speed?
> >> > How content are you with,
> >> > forward thrust
> >> > reverse thrust
> >> > amount of prop walk
> >> >
> >> > Charles Pleisse
> >> > Sookie #221
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Message: 5
> >> > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 14:08:18 -0400
> >> > From: Greg Hounsell <greg.hounsell at gmail.com>
> >> > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> >> > <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Public-List] A-4 Two blade propeller survey
> >> > Message-ID:
> >> > <CAF=smri5oYw5fB0DO-9nefZQfznmn==M9d11pSbA=
> >> > USBP0AmTQ at mail.gmail.com>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >> >
> >> > Afternoon
> >> >
> >> > I have a 13" x 7" prop. It came with the boat and not happy with it
> at
> >> all.
> >> > The Atomic on reaches around 1400rpms and that's it. It also only
> leaves
> >> > about a 3/4" Gap at the top.
> >> > In Marinas constantly in and out of gear at idle otherwise speed too
> fast
> >> > and major propwalk in reverse.
> >> >
> >> > It does plow through headwinds and 1-2m waves easily.
> >> >
> >> > Purchased the Indigo 3 blade this winter. Maybe we'll get to try it
> this
> >> > season??
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> > Greg #592
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 1:10 PM charles pleisse via Public-List <
> >> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > If your Alberg 30 has an Atomic 4 with a two blade prop,
> >> > > What diameter is you propeller?
> >> > > What is the pitch is your prop?
> >> > > At what RPM do you achieve hull speed?
> >> > > How content are you with,
> >> > > forward thrust
> >> > > reverse thrust
> >> > > amount of prop walk
> >> > >
> >> > > Charles Pleisse
> >> > > Sookie #221
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > These businesses support your Association:
> >> > > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> >> > > Please support them.
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Public-List mailing list
> >> > > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> >> > > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >> >
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> >> > End of Public-List Digest, Vol 3997, Issue 1
> >> > ********************************************
> >> >
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