[Public-List] Fwd: Re: More on the J boats collision

Wed Mar 18 13:45:32 PDT 2020

the protest decision was here:
https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Protest.pdf
Topaz was driven by Peter Holmberg, also an Olympic silver medalist and the 
driver of Alinghi as well. He won in that boat, so two very experienced men 
who know the rules. I saw a comment that Svea had both the main and foresail 
sheeted in so there was no possibility of turning down. Also from the video 
it looked to me as if the first boat to tack and hence the most upwind on 
starboard had turned down a bit and so Topaz may have turned up to avoid a 
collision course with that boat before luffing up at the collision.
Don

-----Original Message----- 
From: P Seidel via Public-List
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 3:45 PM
To: Michael Connolly ; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Cc: P Seidel
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Fwd: Re: More on the J boats collision

This may help in understanding the protest results.  As a datapoint, the 
Svea driver was Charlie Ogletree, an Olympic silver medal winner.  Super 
nice guy and top top drawer sailor.  This just shows the power of boats and 
how fast things can go south in just seconds.
Pat Seidel
Protest Decision: Topaz versus Svea >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News
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Protest Decision: Topaz versus Svea >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

When a massive collision occurred between two J Class yachts competing in 
the 2020 Superyacht Challenge Antigua,...
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    On Tuesday, March 17, 2020, 06:57:05 PM EDT, Greg Aldworth via 
Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

Wow!

J8 tacked onto starboard tack. The port tack J should have altered to 
starboard (or tacked onto starboard as well) to avoid collision. If the port 
tack J had tacked onto starboard he would have found himself in J 8’s dirty 
air. Correct decision to remain on port tack BUT he should have bore away a 
wee little bit to go under J8’s stern.
It would be very cool to see the decision of the protest committee, no doubt 
there was a protest…
Some relevant racing rules taken from Racing Rules of Sailing:

SECTION A
RIGHT OF WAY
A boat has right of way over another boat when the other boat is
required to keep clear of her. However, some rules in Sections B, C
and D limit the actions of a right-of-way boat.
10 ON OPPOSITE TACKS
When boats are on opposite tacks, a port-tack boat shall keep clear
of a starboard-tack boat.

SECTION B GENERAL LIMITATIONS 14 AVOIDING CONTACT A boat shall avoid contact 
with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or 
one entitled to room or mark-room (a) need not act to avoid contact until it 
is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or 
mark-room, and (b) shall be exonerated if she breaks this rule and the 
contact does not cause damage or injury.

We would have to see what the Race Com. decided in this case…

In the International ColRegs, Rule 12, states that a s/v with the wind on 
the port side, shall keep out of the way of the other (a vessel with the 
wind on starboard side). In other words; part tack vessels are burdened.

ColReg Rule 17 reminds all of us that “This Rule does not relieve the 
give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way.” The onus is on 
all of us to avoid collision, whether we are burdened or not.

We don’t know what the skippers or race committee relied upon, I’m certain 
there were more rules and a lot of emotion!

We have to keep in mind that this incident happened during a race. Drivers 
in Formula 1 races do things the rest of us do not do (for the most part) on 
our daily commutes.
Olympic cyclists in the velodrome do things we don’t normally do while out 
for a pleasant summer evening pedal.

Unfortunately, we don’t know what J Class event this was or what the Race 
Committee decided.
They are still hot boats!

Greg

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Michael Connolly via Public-List
Sent: March 17, 2020 11:32 AM
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Cc: Michael Connolly
Subject: [Public-List] Fwd: Re: More on the J boats collision

Hello all,
By now most of you have viewed this.  Time to learn from others mistakes. 
My take is that both skippers made novice type mistakes.  I wonder if they 
had seasoned crew on board or a bunch of celebrities. The total chaos on the 
boat photographing to leeward was out of control.

I am curious what is your take on this collision?
Michael #133

> ---------- Original Message ----------
>    From: Michael Connolly <crufone at comcast.net>
>    To: John Y Jackson <jackson.jy at gmail.com>, Adrian Vergot 
> <Adrianvergot at hotmail.com>, Clay Hickman <clayhickman at gmail.com>, David 
> Miller <caberry2 at netscape.net>, Earl Beard <earlbeard at gmail.com>, Julie 
> Mincey <julie.mincey at icloud.com>, Mike Daly <md1940 at gmail.com>, Mike 
> Foster <mfoster at suddenlink.net>, Russ Robinson <r.rubarb at gmail.com>, Steve 
> Stroud <Stroud1953 at aol.com>, Pete&Elaine <PETEL2 at suddenlink.net>, Seth 
> Wolpin <wolpin at gmail.com>
>    Date: March 16, 2020 at 9:51 AM
>    Subject: Re: More on the J boats collision
>
>    John,
>    Thanks for the post. Why did the Starboard boat commence a tack? To 
> avoid a collision you always drive so the boats are as parallel as 
> possible.  If the Starboard boat had headed down her stern would have had 
> a better chance of missing the Port boat.  Always much less damage when 
> the boats bounce off one another beam to beam.
>
>    I am sorry but this is basic seamanship. The port boat had the main 
> trimmed so that she couldn't fall off fast enough or at all. Major lack of 
> communication going on.
>
>    Makes me glad that I am playing around with several thousand dollar 
> boats rather than several million dollar ones.
>
>    Cheers,
>    Michael
>
>
>
>        > > On March 16, 2020 at 7:47 AM John Y Jackson 
> <jackson.jy at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >        Here is another link with a bit more information, and a video if 
> > the damage to the boat, Topaz, that was hit
> >
> > 
> > https://megayachtnews.com/2020/03/svea-and-topaz-collide-at-superyacht-challenge-antigua/
> >
> >        A few of you who are getting this did not get the original.  Here 
> > it is.  Earl was the first of us to find this.
> >
> >
> > 
> > https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/03/12/video-massive-j-class-collision/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Scuttlebutt%205527%20%20March%2016%202020&utm_content=Scuttlebutt%205527%20%20March%2016%202020+CID_dea217305308971383c4f7d2cf89675e&utm_source=Email%20Newsletter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >        Stay healthy!
> >
> >        Smooth Sailing,
> >
> >        JYJ
> >
> >        Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no 
> > path and leave a trail.  Ralph Waldo Emerson
> >
> >    >
>
>

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