[Public-List] Twings and In-haulers

Greg Roberts greg at midnight-oil.us
Wed Apr 21 18:33:00 PDT 2021


Don, Gordon,As always, thank you for your input! I am going to play
with the rings but I do agree that reinstalling the track is a good
idea. I do have to ask, in good fun... Is it fair to say that both of
you gentlemen would happily race against one our boats rigged with
twings, in-hauls, etc?
A more serious question: My tracks are the original strap of stainless
bolted down on a strip of 3/8" thick wood. I know of one boat that has
switched to Delrin for the spacer. Have folks tried any other
materials with good results? I actually like the stainless since my
cars are stainless so I don't want to switch to aluminum T track.
Regards,
Greg
P.S. Gordon, I may have borrow that ear bit. I've had to explain to
way too many clients why the approach they want us to take might not
be the best way to spend their money...
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Twings and In-haulers (Gordon Laco)
   2. Re: Twings and In-haulers (Gordon Laco)
   3. Re: Twings and In-haulers (Don Campbell) (Greg Roberts)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:20:27 -0400
From: Gordon Laco 
To: Don Campbell , Alberg 30 Public List --
 open to all 
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I used to know a Hungarian fellow who was an engineer? when we were
discussing rigging issues for the brigantines I operated, sometimes in
meetings he?d catch my eye across the table, and slowly reach his
right arm over his head and in a theatrical way scratch his right ear.

After the meeting at which he first did that, I asked him what it was
all about.  

He said (imagine a Hungarian accent)  Gord, the correct manner which
one should scratch ones right ear is like this (he scratched he right
ear with his right hand)  Those fellows are trying to do it like this
(reaches over his head again.)

Sometimes the traditional way is the best way?particularly with
rigging.
Gordon Laco
426 Surprise
www.gordonlaco.com
> On Apr 20, 2021, at 3:32 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List  wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg:
>    If you change to the rings etc. you will no longer  have a one
design boat, and knowing what most traditional sailors know about
sailing, they will find the rings more difficult to sail with than an
adjustable track car. That system does not allow for easy sail
adjustment short of either changing ring position if you have a snap
shackle attachment or rethreading the sheet, for changing wind speeds,
especially  if you need to either really bag the sail in lighter air
or really flatten it in heavy air or adjust the car for a spinnaker or
blooper twinge control line. However, teh controls and sheet placement
on that class of boat as you describe it makes for a one design class
as long as no one installs reacks!
>    If you watched any of the America's Cup, the sail adjustment was
infinite but by millimeters and all on tracks or the equivalent. You
cannot do that with the rings. The adjustment is from padeye to
padeye. Sometimes, newer ideas are not any better than the tried and
true.
>    But, there is nothing wrong or bad about dynema for sheets,
except if your winches wear the lines, then it is expensive.
>    If you do go to the rings, keep the tracks for the next owner
because he will probably want them for two reasons: it will still be a
class one design boat and they are easier to adjust a finer sail set
quickly, especially for racing.
> Don
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Greg Roberts via Public-List" 
> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> Cc: "Greg Roberts" 
> Sent: 2021-04-18 3:21:29 PM
> Subject: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
> 
>> Hi Folks,I crew on a 27' Seascape that doesn't have any tracks. It
>> uses low friction rings and control lines to set the headsail
sheeting
>> angle. I know the concept has been around a long time but seems to
>> have come back around with the low friction rings and dyneema
lines.
>> Has anyone tried this with our boat? I've pulled my toe rail and am
in
>> the process of getting ready to replace it. I wouldn't mind not
>> reinstalling the track. I really like the simplicity of the
>> components: lines, rings, and padeyes. I still have the original
>> track, cars, and blocks so this isn't a cost question.
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
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> 
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> Please support them.
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:25:43 -0400
From: Gordon Laco 
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

OH NO I GOT THE EARS WRONG?. PLEASE READ CORRECTED VERSON BELOW?
SORRY!
Gordon Laco
www.gordonlaco.com
> On Apr 20, 2021, at 4:20 PM, Gordon Laco via Public-List  wrote:
> 
> I used to know a Hungarian fellow who was an engineer? when we were
discussing rigging issues for the brigantines I operated, sometimes in
meetings he?d catch my eye across the table, and slowly reach his
right arm over his head and in a theatrical way scratch his LEFT ear.
> 
> After the meeting at which he first did that, I asked him what it
was all about.  
> 
> He said (imagine a Hungarian accent)  Gord, the correct manner which
one should scratch ones right ear is like this (he scratched he right
ear with his right hand)  Those fellows are trying to do it like this
(reaches over his head again with the wrong arm.)
> 
> Sometimes the traditional way is the best way?particularly with
rigging.
> 
> 
> Gordon Laco
> 426 Surprise
> www.gordonlaco.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2021, at 3:32 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Greg:
>>   If you change to the rings etc. you will no longer  have a one
design boat, and knowing what most traditional sailors know about
sailing, they will find the rings more difficult to sail with than an
adjustable track car. That system does not allow for easy sail
adjustment short of either changing ring position if you have a snap
shackle attachment or rethreading the sheet, for changing wind speeds,
especially  if you need to either really bag the sail in lighter air
or really flatten it in heavy air or adjust the car for a spinnaker or
blooper twinge control line. However, teh controls and sheet placement
on that class of boat as you describe it makes for a one design class
as long as no one installs reacks!
>>   If you watched any of the America's Cup, the sail adjustment was
infinite but by millimeters and all on tracks or the equivalent. You
cannot do that with the rings. The adjustment is from padeye to
padeye. Sometimes, newer ideas are not any better than the tried and
true.
>>   But, there is nothing wrong or bad about dynema for sheets,
except if your winches wear the lines, then it is expensive.
>>   If you do go to the rings, keep the tracks for the next owner
because he will probably want them for two reasons: it will still be a
class one design boat and they are easier to adjust a finer sail set
quickly, especially for racing.
>> Don
>> 
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Greg Roberts via Public-List" 
>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>> Cc: "Greg Roberts" 
>> Sent: 2021-04-18 3:21:29 PM
>> Subject: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
>> 
>>> Hi Folks,I crew on a 27' Seascape that doesn't have any tracks. It
>>> uses low friction rings and control lines to set the headsail
sheeting
>>> angle. I know the concept has been around a long time but seems to
>>> have come back around with the low friction rings and dyneema
lines.
>>> Has anyone tried this with our boat? I've pulled my toe rail and
am in
>>> the process of getting ready to replace it. I wouldn't mind not
>>> reinstalling the track. I really like the simplicity of the
>>> components: lines, rings, and padeyes. I still have the original
>>> track, cars, and blocks so this isn't a cost question.
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-List mailing list
>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 13:51:44 -0700
From: "Greg Roberts" 
To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers (Don Campbell)
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Folks,My email went down about an hour after I posted my question
about twings and in-haulers. It was the kind of problem that causes
all messages to wander off into the ether to never be seen again. As
such I've missed any responses before this afternoon. I believe there
is an archive but I couldn't find it. Where can I find a link to it?
Don,Thanks for the thoughtful response. There isn't much of an
Alberg30 one-design class here in SoCal but it never hurts to have
options. :) I'll give you that it's a more complex system to adjust
but it does give you three knobs to turn instead of the traditional
two. And just to kick ideas around... You have the option of reducing
it to the traditional system if you use a track car for anchoring the
twing.
Regards,
Greg

------------------------------

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