[Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
Don Campbell
dk.campbell at xplornet.ca
Wed Apr 21 20:06:00 PDT 2021
The question I always ask is whether Carl Alberg would have rigged this
boat with ...... rings in this case. Since this boat is an adaptation
from North Sea sailing, I doubt it, and I think he would now use self
tailing winches too. I suggest that he would use a track with a possible
adjustment block on the ends now that they are commonly available, and
that makes for safer and easier sail trim in wicked conditions on a day
with a blow on the North Sea.
As for racing against a boat rigged with rings, any day, but those
days are in the past for me now.
Don
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gordon Laco via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>; "Greg Roberts"
<greg at midnight-oil.us>
Sent: 2021-04-21 9:45:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
>Haha, yes, and probably clobber a boat festooned with simplified rigging that actually complicates it… and spoils the practicality of the vessel. A mantra I have learned in my career as a yacht outfitter is that if people knew how well yachts USED to sail, they wouldn’t be so eager to latch onto shortcuts and go-fast gadgets…
>
>Please feel free to borrow the ear thing… just make sure you get the arms and ears straight before you say it… not like me. It’s a lot easier in a meeting when you can do it than write it off the cuff… haha
>
>
>Gordon Laco
>www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
>> On Apr 21, 2021, at 9:33 PM, Greg Roberts via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Don, Gordon,As always, thank you for your input! I am going to play
>> with the rings but I do agree that reinstalling the track is a good
>> idea. I do have to ask, in good fun... Is it fair to say that both of
>> you gentlemen would happily race against one our boats rigged with
>> twings, in-hauls, etc?
>> A more serious question: My tracks are the original strap of stainless
>> bolted down on a strip of 3/8" thick wood. I know of one boat that has
>> switched to Delrin for the spacer. Have folks tried any other
>> materials with good results? I actually like the stainless since my
>> cars are stainless so I don't want to switch to aluminum T track.
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>> P.S. Gordon, I may have borrow that ear bit. I've had to explain to
>> way too many clients why the approach they want us to take might not
>> be the best way to spend their money...
>> On 4/21/2021 at 1:05 PM, public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>> wrote:Send Public-List mailing list submissions to
>>public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>public-list-owner at lists.alberg30.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Public-List digest..."
>> Please do NOT include the entire digest in your reply!
>> ======================================================
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Twings and In-haulers (Gordon Laco)
>> 2. Re: Twings and In-haulers (Gordon Laco)
>> 3. Re: Twings and In-haulers (Don Campbell) (Greg Roberts)
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:20:27 -0400
>> From: Gordon Laco
>> To: Don Campbell , Alberg 30 Public List --
>> open to all
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> I used to know a Hungarian fellow who was an engineer? when we were
>> discussing rigging issues for the brigantines I operated, sometimes in
>> meetings he?d catch my eye across the table, and slowly reach his
>> right arm over his head and in a theatrical way scratch his right ear.
>>
>> After the meeting at which he first did that, I asked him what it was
>> all about.
>>
>> He said (imagine a Hungarian accent) Gord, the correct manner which
>> one should scratch ones right ear is like this (he scratched he right
>> ear with his right hand) Those fellows are trying to do it like this
>> (reaches over his head again.)
>>
>> Sometimes the traditional way is the best way?particularly with
>> rigging.
>> Gordon Laco
>> 426 Surprise
>>www.gordonlaco.com
>>> On Apr 20, 2021, at 3:32 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Greg:
>>> If you change to the rings etc. you will no longer have a one
>> design boat, and knowing what most traditional sailors know about
>> sailing, they will find the rings more difficult to sail with than an
>> adjustable track car. That system does not allow for easy sail
>> adjustment short of either changing ring position if you have a snap
>> shackle attachment or rethreading the sheet, for changing wind speeds,
>> especially if you need to either really bag the sail in lighter air
>> or really flatten it in heavy air or adjust the car for a spinnaker or
>> blooper twinge control line. However, teh controls and sheet placement
>> on that class of boat as you describe it makes for a one design class
>> as long as no one installs reacks!
>>> If you watched any of the America's Cup, the sail adjustment was
>> infinite but by millimeters and all on tracks or the equivalent. You
>> cannot do that with the rings. The adjustment is from padeye to
>> padeye. Sometimes, newer ideas are not any better than the tried and
>> true.
>>> But, there is nothing wrong or bad about dynema for sheets,
>> except if your winches wear the lines, then it is expensive.
>>> If you do go to the rings, keep the tracks for the next owner
>> because he will probably want them for two reasons: it will still be a
>> class one design boat and they are easier to adjust a finer sail set
>> quickly, especially for racing.
>>> Don
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "Greg Roberts via Public-List"
>>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>> Cc: "Greg Roberts"
>>> Sent: 2021-04-18 3:21:29 PM
>>> Subject: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
>>>
>>>> Hi Folks,I crew on a 27' Seascape that doesn't have any tracks. It
>>>> uses low friction rings and control lines to set the headsail
>> sheeting
>>>> angle. I know the concept has been around a long time but seems to
>>>> have come back around with the low friction rings and dyneema
>> lines.
>>>> Has anyone tried this with our boat? I've pulled my toe rail and am
>> in
>>>> the process of getting ready to replace it. I wouldn't mind not
>>>> reinstalling the track. I really like the simplicity of the
>>>> components: lines, rings, and padeyes. I still have the original
>>>> track, cars, and blocks so this isn't a cost question.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Greg
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>> Please support them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Public-List mailing list
>>>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-List mailing list
>>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:25:43 -0400
>> From: Gordon Laco
>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> OH NO I GOT THE EARS WRONG?. PLEASE READ CORRECTED VERSON BELOW?
>> SORRY!
>> Gordon Laco
>>www.gordonlaco.com
>>> On Apr 20, 2021, at 4:20 PM, Gordon Laco via Public-List wrote:
>>>
>>> I used to know a Hungarian fellow who was an engineer? when we were
>> discussing rigging issues for the brigantines I operated, sometimes in
>> meetings he?d catch my eye across the table, and slowly reach his
>> right arm over his head and in a theatrical way scratch his LEFT ear.
>>>
>>> After the meeting at which he first did that, I asked him what it
>> was all about.
>>>
>>> He said (imagine a Hungarian accent) Gord, the correct manner which
>> one should scratch ones right ear is like this (he scratched he right
>> ear with his right hand) Those fellows are trying to do it like this
>> (reaches over his head again with the wrong arm.)
>>>
>>> Sometimes the traditional way is the best way?particularly with
>> rigging.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gordon Laco
>>> 426 Surprise
>>>www.gordonlaco.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2021, at 3:32 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Greg:
>>>> If you change to the rings etc. you will no longer have a one
>> design boat, and knowing what most traditional sailors know about
>> sailing, they will find the rings more difficult to sail with than an
>> adjustable track car. That system does not allow for easy sail
>> adjustment short of either changing ring position if you have a snap
>> shackle attachment or rethreading the sheet, for changing wind speeds,
>> especially if you need to either really bag the sail in lighter air
>> or really flatten it in heavy air or adjust the car for a spinnaker or
>> blooper twinge control line. However, teh controls and sheet placement
>> on that class of boat as you describe it makes for a one design class
>> as long as no one installs reacks!
>>>> If you watched any of the America's Cup, the sail adjustment was
>> infinite but by millimeters and all on tracks or the equivalent. You
>> cannot do that with the rings. The adjustment is from padeye to
>> padeye. Sometimes, newer ideas are not any better than the tried and
>> true.
>>>> But, there is nothing wrong or bad about dynema for sheets,
>> except if your winches wear the lines, then it is expensive.
>>>> If you do go to the rings, keep the tracks for the next owner
>> because he will probably want them for two reasons: it will still be a
>> class one design boat and they are easier to adjust a finer sail set
>> quickly, especially for racing.
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "Greg Roberts via Public-List"
>>>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>>> Cc: "Greg Roberts"
>>>> Sent: 2021-04-18 3:21:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Folks,I crew on a 27' Seascape that doesn't have any tracks. It
>>>>> uses low friction rings and control lines to set the headsail
>> sheeting
>>>>> angle. I know the concept has been around a long time but seems to
>>>>> have come back around with the low friction rings and dyneema
>> lines.
>>>>> Has anyone tried this with our boat? I've pulled my toe rail and
>> am in
>>>>> the process of getting ready to replace it. I wouldn't mind not
>>>>> reinstalling the track. I really like the simplicity of the
>>>>> components: lines, rings, and padeyes. I still have the original
>>>>> track, cars, and blocks so this isn't a cost question.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Greg
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>>> Please support them.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Public-List mailing list
>>>>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>> Please support them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Public-List mailing list
>>>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-List mailing list
>>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 13:51:44 -0700
>> From: "Greg Roberts"
>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Twings and In-haulers (Don Campbell)
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Hi Folks,My email went down about an hour after I posted my question
>> about twings and in-haulers. It was the kind of problem that causes
>> all messages to wander off into the ether to never be seen again. As
>> such I've missed any responses before this afternoon. I believe there
>> is an archive but I couldn't find it. Where can I find a link to it?
>> Don,Thanks for the thoughtful response. There isn't much of an
>> Alberg30 one-design class here in SoCal but it never hurts to have
>> options. :) I'll give you that it's a more complex system to adjust
>> but it does give you three knobs to turn instead of the traditional
>> two. And just to kick ideas around... You have the option of reducing
>> it to the traditional system if you use a track car for anchoring the
>> twing.
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Public-List Digest, Vol 4157, Issue 1
>> ********************************************
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>These businesses support your Association:
>http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>Please support them.
>_______________________________________________
>Public-List mailing list
>Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
More information about the Public-List
mailing list