[Public-List] Alberg 30 Sail Plan

Thu Mar 11 07:53:26 PST 2021

Dave - First of all, your boat was delivered in 1964. #50 came to Annapolis
in November 1964. Mine was #76, delivered to Annapolis in June, 1965.

One thing you should remember is that the A30 is a "ONE DESIGN BOAT" , that
is, as far as we can, we should keep all of the boats alike. When you go to
sell one with electric power and batteries you are selling a vastly
modified A30. It is no longer an A30! And you have spent a vast amount of
money to make it so!!..The Grey Marine was the engine in all of the early
boats and it worked quite well. The overhaul of a Grey costs about
$2,500-3K . Your boat, with an overhauled Grey should be worth at least $10
K, depending on its other condition. Good ones here in Annapolis go for
$15K.  The A30s all had a 15 gal fiberglass gas tank in the starboard
cockpit seat and that would run the boat for about 20 hours or more At 6-7
knots. If you have more gas tanks in the lazaret they are unnecessary.
Remove them! I do not remember that the Grey weight was as much as you say.
I think it was more like 300#. The A30, as it was designed and built, is a
wonderful boat - modified as you plan makes it "not so wonderful'. You will
be modifying the basic design - the various dimensions that make it
balanced and make it sail perfectly.
There was a dealer in New Jersey that did a great job of overhauling Grays.
Look them up - they may still be there.
Rolph Townshend, Annapolis, MD (former owner of #76 and #550)

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:59 AM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> Hello Dave, good morning, welcome aboard.
>
> There’s so much below that needs unpacking I’m not sure where to begin.  I
> don’t mean that unkindly, so please don’t take it that way..
>
> So jumping to the ballast references… it is utterly and completely
> impossible to remove the ballast without embarking on a large and technical
> and very expensive engineering project.  I suppose it would be possible to
> remove the deck, remove the interior, chisel out the glass work holding the
> encapsulated ballast in place, drill lifting bolt holes into the iron,
> thread lifting rings into the holes, then arrange a gantry or crane to
> perform the lift…. while having found a way to hold the shell of the hull
> down while upwards force was applied to the ballast pig… huge force much in
> excess of the weight of the iron to break it loose from the skin of the
> keel.
>
> Alternative to all that, one might saw off the ballast area of the keel
> from the outside, then build a new keel…
>
> Regardless, in order to come even remotely close to the density of the
> iron the yachts were built with by stacking batteries as ballast, would
> require a much larger volume of space than is currently occupied by the
> iron.  Ball parking the amount of space in a battery that is NOT lead…I’d
> venture that you might need four or five times the volume.   But… that
> volume is extra displacement (floating ‘energy’), so just to sink it you’d
> need even more batteries… where would you put them?  And so the impossible
> circle would go…
>
> So, the short answer is… it is not practical to remove the ballast,
> particularly with the intention to replace the ballast with batteries.
>
>
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:24 PM, Dave Yamakuchi via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone, I'm Dave, skipper of Aquila, Hull #47 (1964/65.) Work &
> sail in Chicago, mooring can at the mouth of Burnham Harbor.
> >
> > I had a few questions, but first, some background: 'Aquila' doesn't have
> an Atomic 4, she has a Graymarine.  It needs a bunch of stuff.  And it's
> 400+lbs, _without_ the exhaust pipe. The cockpit sits, I suspect, a bit
> closer to the water than it should be maybe, if you catch my drift.  Giant
> saddlebag lazerette gas tanks probably don't help.
> >
> > So, I'm tearing that gak out.  I'm going electric.  With lots of lead
> batteries.
> >
> > Anyway, the mast isn't moving. But I'm definitely 'moving' significant
> weight forward from the aft. Will she still sail right? I'm considering
> allocating a few hundred pounds of batteries or so to the motor's former
> location just to try and not wreck the fore/aft balance too badly, though
> I'm going in resigned to the fact that it's going to happen anyway.
> amidoinitrite?  I'm the electrical guy, not the sailor.  Certainly never
> been a shipwright.  You all tell me. Please. The original batteries were
> under the cabin floor, so right now Plan A is shoehorning as many more
> pounds of 12V lead as is practical in there, plus whatever extras in the
> engine compartment.
> >
> > I'm wondering though: has anyone here ever accessed or removed their A30
> keel ballast?  What shape / size is it?  Is it tapered? Will it come out
> the companionway with a crane maybe?  Is this crazy talk?  IDK. I'm
> basically getting a crane to help pull the motor anyway.  3300lbs of lead
> batteries is rather a lot of power too. It would be a stretch, but I could
> probably swing it.
> >
> > She's my first boat. I figured I'd ask some experts during the planning
> phase...
> > Here's what I know:
> >
> > * The 70lb 12V type 31s claim about 80 AmpHours or '195 minutes at 25A'
> which equals maybe 1/3hp for 3hours or so, conservatively.
> >
> > * Three of those gets 1hp, six of them does 2hp, etc. For that same
> duration. Use less hp than that, get longer runtime, obviously.
> >
> > * Replacing the displacement of a 419lb motor and transmission gets
> about six times 70lbs.
> >
> > * Plus two batteries 'existing' is eight.
> >
> > * The ballast is 3300lbs.
> >
> > * 47 x 70 lb batteries is 3,290lbs.  48 batteries x 25A per battery x
> 12V is 14.4kW.  19hp.
> > * This leads to propeller questions, however, perhaps you get the idea.
> > * I want to replace the iron ballast with lead.
> >
> > Why won't this work?
> >
> > How could it?
> >
> > What's the best place for those batteries?
> >
> > Can I get the batteries into the keel like I want?
> >
> > Opinions please.
> >
> > Thanks in advance and best regards.
> > Dave
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