[Public-List] electric drive
Dominic Amann
dominic.amann at gmail.com
Mon Mar 29 02:35:45 PST 2021
Re: Electric drives:
It depends upon your usage scenario. I have an electric drive on board my
alberg 30. Intended use: get me out of harbour, and back in again. Needed
run time - 20-30 minutes. I have enough battery for an hour of 3 knot
running in calm conditions, and it is charged via a 110 charger overnight.
I live on Lake Erie, where the wind is very dependable, and so I consider
this adequate. Your situation might vary. I could double the battery (for
about $700), and originally intended to do so, but have never used more
than half of it.
I did have a 100 W solar panel (not much room for a bigger one on deck),
but that would take about 3 days of Canadian sun to charge about half the
battery. It now powers my trailer.
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 09:33, gewhite--- via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> Electric drive has been used for quite a long time to drive ships.
> The problem of course is getting the electricity. I served in the
> engine room on a Socony-Vacuum tanker in the 1950s running coastwise
> from Beaumont, Texas to either Paulsboro, NJ opposite Philadelphia,
> or Tompkinsville Staten Island and occasionally all the way to the
> turning basin at Albany, NY. It was a 14,000 ton WW II T-2, built in
> 1944. It was powered by a large electric motor driven by a steam
> turbine generator with steam made by a fire-tube scotch boiler burning
> heavy bunkers oil. Replaced triple-expansion piston steam engines in
> ships.
>
> My beef with electric drive in boats or cars is the charging time,
> as well as the scarcity of charging stations. Where I live, 75 miles
> north of Norfolk and 250 miles south of Washington, DC there are very
> few charging stations and those there are take 8 hours to put a full
> charge into a Tesla. As chairman of the county economic development
> authority I have investigated the cost of a fast-charging station to
> attract travelers to our county, but even with a subsidy from Dominion
> Power one would cost upwards of $250,000- and need the cables equal to
> those supplying a small town.
>
> - Gordon White
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Public-List Digest, Vol 4133, Issue 1
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> Date: Tue, March 16, 2021 11:18 am
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> ======================================================
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: corroded rudder (Clay Pass)
> 2. Re: cutlass housing replacement (Greg Wallis)
> 3. Re: Alberg 30 Sail Plan (Mike Meinhold)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 16:55:22 -0400
> From: Clay Pass <[7]clay.q.pass at gmail.com>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <[8]public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: Stephen Gwyn <[9]stephen.gwyn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] corroded rudder
> Message-ID:
> <[10]CAKQ=Ps5TvYOb-OcbMJQeGMdp_gCLJ5U6jmt1LGf3_8H3c_CesQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> I think originally that rudder post was supposed to be 3/4" ... mine
> measured 5/8" when I had a new gudgeon made. That's pretty close to
> your
> .6". To me that seemed plenty strong enough. Especially considering
> when
> I got the boat, there was no gudgeon or support there at all. I don't
> know
> how long or in what conditions it had been sailed like that, but I
> don't
> think there is going to be tremendous side load at that point. I have
> #449
> which should be identical to yours and have some pictures of what it
> looked
> like if you are interested.
> Clay Pass
> #449 Seeing Deep
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 6:03 AM Stephen Gwyn via Public-List <
> [11]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > While there is some "meat" left at the middle bearing, when I put
> > my calipers on the shaft, find that 0.6 inches are left, which
> translates
> > to
> > just 36% of the original strength. Not great. And that 0.6 inches was
> > measured
> > on top of the crud; there will be less left after sanding down to
> clean
> > metal.
> > Basically, the approach of just cleaning it up and putting in a
> delrin
> > bushing,
> > while seductively cheap and easy, isn't really a seaworthy solution
> > unless I
> > confine my sailing to quiet weather.
> >
> > I have a 1972 boat, #495. None of the pictures on the website are
> from
> > that era, as far as I can figure out. The older boats also had
> fibreglass
> > tube going up to the cockpit, above the waterline. Mine has a
> stuffing
> > box at the hull.
> >
> > What I'm trying to get from this group is some idea how the later
> > rudders were built, whether it was all one continuous carefully bent
> > shaft, or
> > two parts or...
> >
> > SG
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > [12]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > [13]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > [14]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >
> ------------------------------
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:02:12 -0400
> From: Greg Wallis <[15]gregwallis at gmail.com>
> To: [16]public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] cutlass housing replacement
> Message-ID:
> <[17]CALPN44y07mNDdeSZJ5T6AT9PgD1k6hzvKRxPacipvpAQu1mzWQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Thanks for all your replies and help everybody.
> I ended up carefully smushing some JB-Weld into the threads and then
> using
> a piece of 1 inch NPT threaded pipe from the hardware store to "shape"
> the
> wet JB-Weld. I just screwed and unscrewed the pipe through the gooey
> threads slowly a few times and the stuff held it's shape just fine
> while it
> dried.
> It took 3 very small coats to fill those damaged threads in completely.
> The result looks pretty much perfect and the stern tube threads into it
> just fine.
> I water tested the housing in the sink overnight and it's not leaking.
> So
> I think the problem is solved.
> Thanks again
> Greg
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Mike Lehman <[18]mlehman at gmail.com>
> > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <[19]public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> > Cc:
> > Bcc:
> > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 18:19:59 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Public-List] cutlass housing replacement
> > To use a technical term...they f'd up.
> >
> > Mike Lehman
> > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 3:41 PM americo silva via Public-List <
> > [20]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Im wondering why they cut into the threads in the first place
> > >
> > > On Thu., Jan. 21, 2021, 11:59 p.m. George Dinwiddie via
> Public-List, <
> > > [21]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In my experience, it?s easier to seal the threads than the tube
> to the
> > > > hull. I suspect that if the threads weren?t sealed, my boat would
> have
> > > sunk
> > > > before I noticed that the stern tube had rotated since I had
> replaced
> > the
> > > > hose clamps. (The clamp screws were somewhat inaccessible.)
> > > >
> > > > George
> > > >
> > > > Sent from a primitive pocket computer. Please assume all errors
> are due
> > > to
> > > > that.
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2021, at 18:47, Clay Pass via Public-List <
> > > > [22]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought in prior discussions we had agreed that water within
> > (inside)
> > > > the
> > > > > stern tube was captured by the stuffing box/packing nut on the
> other
> > > end
> > > > > from entering the boat. Water that leaks through the threads at
> the
> > > > > cutlass housing to the outside of the tube will be stopped from
> > > entering
> > > > > the boat by the complete seal of the stern tube to the hull
> (outside
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > tube to thru hole in hull) and also the seal of the cutlass
> bearing
> > > > housing
> > > > > to the hull. In any case, I had a housing scored just like this
> and
> > > had
> > > > no
> > > > > issues with it after caulking the whole interface with 3M 4000
> and I
> > > > > believe I caulked the threads with the same just for good
> measure.
> > As
> > > > long
> > > > > as you can screw the housing on the stern tube without it
> turning or
> > > > > breaking the seal and also use plenty of caulk to seal the
> > > > > housing/hull/stern tube interface, you should not have any
> issues. I
> > > > > haven't had any with mine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Clay
> > > > > #449 Seeing Deep
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 1:36 PM Greg Wallis via Public-List <
> > > > > [23]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am in process of replacing the cutlass bearing,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Here's a link to my poor cutlass bearing housing. Notice the
> ruined
> > > > pipe
> > > > >> threads.
> > > > >>
> > >
> [24]https://drive.google.com/file/d/198AJ_rMD7Lx8QrdksGXhIbeRR6_FPS9t/v
> iew
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I took the cutlass bearing housing to a shop to have the new
> bearing
> > > > >> pressed in, and they proceeded to overcut the old bearing and
> cut
> > two
> > > > deep
> > > > >> groves lengthwise through the female pipe threads of the
> cutlass
> > > > housing.
> > > > >> These threads connect the cutlass bearing housing to the stern
> tube.
> > > So
> > > > >> now the threads are not going to be watertight. I think that
> the
> > > > threads
> > > > >> will still function, but they will most certainly leak.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am hoping somebody has an identical alberg30 cutlass bearing
> > housing
> > > > that
> > > > >> they'd be willing to sell to me. This would be the best.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If I can't find another one, I am considering to allow this
> fitting
> > to
> > > > leak
> > > > >> between the stern tube and the cutlass bearing housing. I
> think I'd
> > > > just
> > > > >> need to ensure that there is plenty of sealant around the
> outside of
> > > > stern
> > > > >> tube where it exits the hull. I guess some water would
> accumulate
> > in
> > > > that
> > > > >> space and wouldn't really have anywhere to go.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would also put a generous layer of sealant on the threads
> > > themselves,
> > > > to
> > > > >> hopefully prevent it from leaking at all. Doing this is going
> to
> > > make
> > > > it
> > > > >> very difficult to remove the cutlass bearing housing in the
> future.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If you have any suggestions or tricks to make these threads
> > watertight
> > > > >> again, please do let me know. How about a thread sealant that
> would
> > > > solve
> > > > >> this problem and still be possible to unscrew in the future?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ideally though, if you have a cutlass bearing housing you'd be
> > willing
> > > > to
> > > > >> part with, please let me know!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks
> > > > >> Greg
> > > > >> hull #165
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> These businesses support your Association:
> > > > >> [25]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > > > >> Please support them.
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Public-List mailing list
> > > > >> [26]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > > > >>
> [27]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > These businesses support your Association:
> > > > > [28]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > > > > Please support them.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > [29]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > These businesses support your Association:
> > > > [31]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > > > Please support them.
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > These businesses support your Association:
> > > [34]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > > Please support them.
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
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> >
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:18:33 -0400
> From: Mike Meinhold <[40]meinhold272 at gmail.com>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <[41]public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Alberg 30 Sail Plan
> Message-ID:
> <[42]CAOvfohc-oLomSeFiE1av8adboQHroa2q84gfAdc6RuUtsXdfQw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Diesel electric is a good technology for ships when it serves the
> arrangements well. If you are forced into compromises such as a very
> long
> shaft, or increasing section beam aft to accommodate an engine, then it
> can
> pay off. It works well for vessels that use as much electricity for
> house
> or for weapons as for propulsion. In these cases physically separating
> the
> energy conversion from the propulsion motor can work well. In an A30 ,
> you
> simply add weight and complexity to go diesel-electric, unless you
> significantly reduce the requirements for speed and range. The gains in
> propulsive efficiency will be small - we already have a good match with
> small diesel and gas engines - so for matching peformance, your diesel
> generator will have to generate 16 or so horsepower, and you will need
> a 16
> hp motor. You could use a smaller engine combined with batteries , and
> run
> it longer , but that will get heavy quickly.
> For those willing to limit their A30 to daysailing or short cruises,
> and
> who have power at the pier to recharge, all-electric might work,
> replacing
> the fuel storage. Let's say I want a minimum 3 hours of 6 knot steaming
> in
> my batteries. That's 3 hours at 12 kw, 36 kw-hours. at 12 volts that's
> 3000
> amp-hours, or quantity 30 12V, 100 amp-hour batteries. A 16 hp (12 kw)
> electric motor is smaller and lighter than a 16 hp diesel, gaining you
> say
> 4 or 5 100 amp-hour batteries - maybe more if you can be
> weight-efficient.
> You could replace that energy nightly , but would need a fairly
> sophisticated charging system to deliver 36kw - hour in say 12 hours,
> so
> 3000 watts. At 120 V that's 25 amps, just below a 30 amp dock
> connection.
> At a mooring the required solar panels are going to be very heavy and
> large.
> A quick look at solar panels finds 320 watts peak in a 1.7m x 1 m
> panel. Lets say I can fit 3 of those somehow, getting 1.6 kw peak.
> Assuming about 5 peak hours ( residential panel sizing uses numbers
> like
> this) we get 8 kw-hours/ day so need 2 days to fill the batteries back
> up,
> allowing me to daysail every 3rd day.
> Of course others can have a different use case, but I consider a diesel
> or
> gas engine integral with the A30 design. If I had a customer who wanted
> a
> diesel-electric or an all-electric 30 foot sailboat, I could help
> design
> it, but it would not be an A30.
> Mike
> Rinn Duin #272
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 11:54 Gordon Laco via Public-List <
> [43]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > I reckon the limiting factor to making electric practical for cars or
> > boats is battery performance. Technology has a way to go yet.
> >
> > I was reading the other day about the ?green? aspect of engines? the
> > writer was making the case that electric, particularly electric using
> > lithium batteries, pushes pollution out of our sight but loads it on
> the
> > third world.
> >
> > The writer made the case that so far the ?greenest? engine is a well
> tuned
> > diesel. Non-complex metals in its construction (mostly just iron), no
> > reliance on solar or shore based electrical generation which has it?s
> own
> > particular polluting issues more complicated than the soot and CO
> from the
> > diesel?s exhaust?
> >
> > Sounds like heresy I know?
> >
> > Many large commercial vessels use well proven diesel-electric
> propulsion.
> > A smaller diesel than would be required if it drove the prop directly
> runs
> > at optimum speed for fuel economy and emission reduction, spinning a
> gen
> > set that in turn powers electric propulsion. I have wondered
> sometimes
> > that yachts don?t use that system?
> >
> > Gordon Laco
> > 426 Surprise
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:43 AM, Mike Lehman via Public-List <
> > [44]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I know of one Alberg 30 with an electric motor. To get any range it
> > needs 2
> > > sets of batteries...600 lbs each...yields about 2-3 hours of
> motoring
> > >
> > > Mike Lehman
> > > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 9:59 AM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
> > > [45]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello Dave, good morning, welcome aboard.
> > >>
> > >> There?s so much below that needs unpacking I?m not sure where to
> > begin. I
> > >> don?t mean that unkindly, so please don?t take it that way..
> > >>
> > >> So jumping to the ballast references? it is utterly and completely
> > >> impossible to remove the ballast without embarking on a large and
> > technical
> > >> and very expensive engineering project. I suppose it would be
> possible
> > to
> > >> remove the deck, remove the interior, chisel out the glass work
> holding
> > the
> > >> encapsulated ballast in place, drill lifting bolt holes into the
> iron,
> > >> thread lifting rings into the holes, then arrange a gantry or
> crane to
> > >> perform the lift?. while having found a way to hold the shell of
> the
> > hull
> > >> down while upwards force was applied to the ballast pig? huge
> force
> > much in
> > >> excess of the weight of the iron to break it loose from the skin
> of the
> > >> keel.
> > >>
> > >> Alternative to all that, one might saw off the ballast area of the
> keel
> > >> from the outside, then build a new keel?
> > >>
> > >> Regardless, in order to come even remotely close to the density of
> the
> > >> iron the yachts were built with by stacking batteries as ballast,
> would
> > >> require a much larger volume of space than is currently occupied
> by the
> > >> iron. Ball parking the amount of space in a battery that is NOT
> > lead?I?d
> > >> venture that you might need four or five times the volume. But?
> that
> > >> volume is extra displacement (floating ?energy?), so just to sink
> it
> > you?d
> > >> need even more batteries? where would you put them? And so the
> > impossible
> > >> circle would go?
> > >>
> > >> So, the short answer is? it is not practical to remove the
> ballast,
> > >> particularly with the intention to replace the ballast with
> batteries.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Gordon Laco
> > >> [46]www.gordonlaco.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:24 PM, Dave Yamakuchi via Public-List <
> > >> [47]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi everyone, I'm Dave, skipper of Aquila, Hull #47 (1964/65.)
> Work &
> > >> sail in Chicago, mooring can at the mouth of Burnham Harbor.
> > >>>
> > >>> I had a few questions, but first, some background: 'Aquila'
> doesn't
> > have
> > >> an Atomic 4, she has a Graymarine. It needs a bunch of stuff. And
> it's
> > >> 400+lbs, _without_ the exhaust pipe. The cockpit sits, I suspect,
> a bit
> > >> closer to the water than it should be maybe, if you catch my
> drift.
> > Giant
> > >> saddlebag lazerette gas tanks probably don't help.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, I'm tearing that gak out. I'm going electric. With lots of
> lead
> > >> batteries.
> > >>>
> > >>> Anyway, the mast isn't moving. But I'm definitely 'moving'
> significant
> > >> weight forward from the aft. Will she still sail right? I'm
> considering
> > >> allocating a few hundred pounds of batteries or so to the motor's
> former
> > >> location just to try and not wreck the fore/aft balance too badly,
> > though
> > >> I'm going in resigned to the fact that it's going to happen
> anyway.
> > >> amidoinitrite? I'm the electrical guy, not the sailor. Certainly
> never
> > >> been a shipwright. You all tell me. Please. The original batteries
> were
> > >> under the cabin floor, so right now Plan A is shoehorning as many
> more
> > >> pounds of 12V lead as is practical in there, plus whatever extras
> in the
> > >> engine compartment.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm wondering though: has anyone here ever accessed or removed
> their
> > A30
> > >> keel ballast? What shape / size is it? Is it tapered? Will it come
> out
> > >> the companionway with a crane maybe? Is this crazy talk? IDK. I'm
> > >> basically getting a crane to help pull the motor anyway. 3300lbs
> of
> > lead
> > >> batteries is rather a lot of power too. It would be a stretch, but
> I
> > could
> > >> probably swing it.
> > >>>
> > >>> She's my first boat. I figured I'd ask some experts during the
> planning
> > >> phase...
> > >>> Here's what I know:
> > >>>
> > >>> * The 70lb 12V type 31s claim about 80 AmpHours or '195 minutes
> at 25A'
> > >> which equals maybe 1/3hp for 3hours or so, conservatively.
> > >>>
> > >>> * Three of those gets 1hp, six of them does 2hp, etc. For that
> same
> > >> duration. Use less hp than that, get longer runtime, obviously.
> > >>>
> > >>> * Replacing the displacement of a 419lb motor and transmission
> gets
> > >> about six times 70lbs.
> > >>>
> > >>> * Plus two batteries 'existing' is eight.
> > >>>
> > >>> * The ballast is 3300lbs.
> > >>>
> > >>> * 47 x 70 lb batteries is 3,290lbs. 48 batteries x 25A per
> battery x
> > >> 12V is 14.4kW. 19hp.
> > >>> * This leads to propeller questions, however, perhaps you get the
> idea.
> > >>> * I want to replace the iron ballast with lead.
> > >>>
> > >>> Why won't this work?
> > >>>
> > >>> How could it?
> > >>>
> > >>> What's the best place for those batteries?
> > >>>
> > >>> Can I get the batteries into the keel like I want?
> > >>>
> > >>> Opinions please.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks in advance and best regards.
> > >>> Dave
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Public-List mailing list
> > >>> [48]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > >>>
> [49]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> These businesses support your Association:
> > >>> [50]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > >>> Please support them.
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Public-List mailing list
> > >>> [51]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > >>>
> [52]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> These businesses support your Association:
> > >> [53]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > >> Please support them.
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Public-List mailing list
> > >> [54]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > >>
> [55]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > These businesses support your Association:
> > > [56]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > > Please support them.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Public-List mailing list
> > > [57]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > > [58]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > [59]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > [60]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > [61]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >
> ------------------------------
> Subject: Digest Footer
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> [62]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> [63]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> [64]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> ------------------------------
> End of Public-List Digest, Vol 4133, Issue 1
> ********************************************
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
> 2. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 3. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 4. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 5. mailto:public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
> 6. mailto:public-list-owner at lists.alberg30.org
> 7. mailto:clay.q.pass at gmail.com
> 8. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 9. mailto:stephen.gwyn at gmail.com
> 10. mailto:CAKQ=
> Ps5TvYOb-OcbMJQeGMdp_gCLJ5U6jmt1LGf3_8H3c_CesQ at mail.gmail.com
> 11. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 12. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 13. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 14. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 15. mailto:gregwallis at gmail.com
> 16. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 17. mailto:
> CALPN44y07mNDdeSZJ5T6AT9PgD1k6hzvKRxPacipvpAQu1mzWQ at mail.gmail.com
> 18. mailto:mlehman at gmail.com
> 19. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 20. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 21. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 22. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 23. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 24.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/198AJ_rMD7Lx8QrdksGXhIbeRR6_FPS9t/view
> 25. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 26. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 27. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 28. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 29. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 30. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 31. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 32. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 33. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 34. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 35. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 36. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 37. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 38. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 39. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 40. mailto:meinhold272 at gmail.com
> 41. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 42. mailto:
> CAOvfohc-oLomSeFiE1av8adboQHroa2q84gfAdc6RuUtsXdfQw at mail.gmail.com
> 43. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 44. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 45. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 46. http://www.gordonlaco.com/
> 47. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> 48. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 49. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 50. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 51. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 52. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 53. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 54. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 55. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 56. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 57. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 58. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 59. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 60. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 61. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> 62. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> 63. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> 64. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
--
Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587
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