[Public-List] Alberg 30 Sail Plan

[Don Campbell]

Hi Dave:
      Many of us who have Alberg 30's have them because they are a one 
design boat. Because of that one design factor, we know how they sail 
and what to expect of them as sailing  boats. Your comment to Rolph was 
that you wanted to learn to sail well on a boat that does sail well. 
Whatever you do with batteries and ballast changes, you are going to 
change the balance on the boat (CoE and CLR) and whatever that does, is 
not what Carl Alberg had in mind for this design. This design was a 
product of his experience on the North Sea, a fairly rough water area 
that requires a real measure of safety in the design.  Those changes you 
propose will mean that you have changed the boat from one that sails 
well now to an unknown quantity, which may be difficult to sail well for 
any of us who know how to sail this boat well. As boats go, this is 
already a heavy boat at 9,000 lbs dry weight and more like 10,000 lbs or 
more with water, fuel, oil in the motor, cooling water in the motor, 
safety gear, sails, cushions, ice in the icebox,  other supplies, AND 
CREW.
     That change to batteries will also change Ted Brewer's capsize 
rating which has Alberg 30's as one of the safest boats for 
seaworthiness on record for a 30 foot boat.  You are also sailing on one 
of the Great Lakes.  Lake Michigan has claimed several lives recently in 
the Chicago-Mack race, and the wave heights are often underestimated in 
these waters. Lake Ontario has had 23 foot waves measured by The Canada 
Center for Inland Waters on their Coast Guard ships in the eastern lake. 
You might want to consider that Alberg has considered some factors of 
rough water and safety in the design you now have that is not modified.
     You alluded to Yves Gelinas , who did remove the stationary engine 
for a circumnavigation, but he added a long stainless steel arm to the 
port side of his boat to take a small outboard, which he does carry 
aboard to get in and out of harbours. He needed space for food storage.
     `Whatever your demand for batteries, and lead keel, you will be in a 
better position financially in the end to buy a boat with a lead keel 
now and sell the Alberg as an Alberg. As Mike says, you can never charge 
what you may need for propulsion and those other needs from solar cells 
with any security for timing and without changing balance again, and 
compromising safety with the encumberances on the deck for both ease of 
movement and raising the center of gravity, not to mention the 
obstructed vision for sailing.
     In my opinion, you will never have a boat that sails well with these 
proposed changes within this hull.
Don Campbell

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave Yamakuchi via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Public-List at lists.alberg30.org" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: "Dave Yamakuchi" <dyamakuchi at yahoo.com>
Sent: 2021-03-15 3:25:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Alberg 30 Sail Plan

>Hi All,
>Wow!  Thanks everybody for all the great insight, and advice.
>
>
>Mike L.: Thank you, thank you.  That's _exactly_ the kind of info I'm looking for. 1200lbs of batteries. Like carrying a crew of six. Lead or Lithium BTW? Where were they mounted...do you know?  :-)
>
>
>Mike M.:  You make a good point.  I honestly don't want to ditch the fuel tanks, nor will I likely move them, even though they are in a rather poor location.  A gallon of gasoline stores a hell of a lot more energy than a gallon of battery.  Period.  Pound for pound is no contest either.One gallon of gas has the energy of 18 sticks of dynamite, I'm told.
>
>The recharge is via multiple methods.  For 'maintenance' a small-ish solar array. I use one '25W' panel now. It fully charges an empty 35lb 55AH AGM in a few 'typical' Chicago days, enough for about three pots of coffee I've found. I was surprised to discover that coffee maker is rated 900W!   There are three more panels, currently stowed inside the cabin.  I'll probably mount at least that many more permanently...IDK. I get out once a week if I'm lucky. I'd use the batteries more for the coffee than the motor too I think.  :-)   A small Honda 2200W genny (~47lbs, 'EU2200i') and maybe even a spare 35lb 1000W just in case. Very efficient on fuel. But slow charging lead is always the best way. Slow charge w/solar, sharp cutoff to trickle charge.  Lead batteries last longest like that.  And keeping them fully charged.  I'll be happy to post pics and data when the time comes if there's interest.
>
>What Aquila came with when I bought her is two heavy-duty stainless 20gal 'saddle bag' type tanks, under the aft end of the cockpit bench seats. I guess they ditched the one fiberglass tank?  IDK. They take up half the space under the seats, and they're heavy as hell when they're full. You can feel it in how she sits in the water.  ...I think I'm using the term 'lazarette' correctly in describing the tanks' location.  Please excuse my landlubbery if I'm not.
>Rolf: The Hull ID is '64, but the title says '65.  IDK.  I appreciate the "One Design" philosophy, but honestly, I'm not in this for racing or resale value.  On my mooring budget, and with the amenities I'd like, I already want big batteries for more practical reasons. Plus I wouldn't mind to learn to sail (well)... On a boat that sails correctly, naturally.  :-)
>
>The Graymarine catalog that came with it called out the engine and transmission combo at 419lbs IIRC. It has decent mechanical drawings too.  Aquila's is the variation with the maximum number of ginormous solid steel connecting brackets.  It's a beast.  I got parts from a forklift engine parts supplier last time. I'll try and find a contact/email if anyone is interested. I want to say that Graymarine matches a certain 'Continental.' Maybe I'm mistaken, It's been a few years.  I've looked now, briefly, and can't spot the catalog right at the moment,but it'll turn up and I'll post some images to the group. It's generally a good motor, I agree. It probably runs too, but, no. Previous owner 'rebuilt' it, and then I 'rebuilt' it again in '13.  Did a couple valve springs on the water. It's been sitting too long now. Electric is the right answer here.
>
>I thought I read somewhere one of the A30 'circumnavigators' had pulled their motor first for weight.  This isn't heresy.  60 years hence electric motors have come a long way. I watched a youtube video of someone ...  you don't want to know what they did to that boat. But I'm particularly interested in what you might think Carl Alberg would say should _improve_ her handling.
>
>Here's what I know about Aquila's journey. She was Moored on can #1 in Montrose Harbor, Chicago from 1972 until 2012 when I bought her.  She'd changed hands a few times, but always to a current crew member until me. In '13 I got a finger dock at the same harbor, after which I unstepped her mast and put her in a slip on the Little Calumet river for the summer of '14.  Then she went on stands until last year, when I brought her to Burnham Harbor in Chicago where she'll be this summer again.  She needs a lot of work.  But she's still generally pretty solid.
>Gordon:  Thanks for your very knowledgeable advice.  I am strongly reconsidering the ballast replacement entirely, based on those particular difficulties you mention.  I saw some other A30s have had problems with the ballast glass de-laminating (see pics below from the thread:  1967 Alberg 30 Bilge Rot / Keel ballast exposed - Page 2 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums, below ), and IF that happens to Aquila, then crossing bridges, and all that...
>
>
>Anyway, thanks again everyone, even if you didn't even respond, just for taking the time to think about my humble situation.  I'll do my best to keep the group posted.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave
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