[Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 4436, Issue 1

Daniel Swords danielswords at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 16 11:38:52 PDT 2023 

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I live on, and sail singlehanded almost daily, my 1973 Alberg 30. I believe that switching from a 155% overlapping roller furling genoa to a 100% roller furling working jib has been the single most enjoyable improvement I have made to the sailing characteristics of this boat (but then I never race).




 


The benefits include:



·        The ability to maintain a balanced helm close hauled or on a close reach in in all wind conditions up to and including Beaufort Force 6 (Strong Breeze 22 – 27 knots). In winds up to about 17 knots with a full main and working jib my helm is balanced and my tiller is only about 3 degrees to windward. One reef in the mainsail maintains this balance up to about 21 knots and one additional mainsail reef maintains this balance up to about 27 knots. I can release the tiller for several minutes in each of these conditions without the boat immediately rounding up and luffing. Since this switch and with proper reefing I am never battling a weather helm. 



·       The working jib does not overlap the shrouds or the mast so I can short tack singlehanded in a narrow channel without needing to winch in the sail. 



·       The working jib does not overlap the spreaders so it trims in tighter and I am able to point higher. 



·       The jib is much easier to see under and around. 



·       To me, my ability to maintain steerageway and sailing characteristics in the lightest breeze are not noticeably different or deficient. 




 


There may be a few conditions where the boat is slower than when driven by a larger overlapping headsail (I don’t have a knot meter). But, I believe that having a balanced sail plan and significantly reduced weather helm (basically a centered rudder) and the ability to point higher and tack faster largely compensates for these conditions. 




 


One suggestion regarding becoming comfortable and adept at reefing the mainsail, every time I drop my mainsail at the end of an outing I go through the same process I use to reef the sail. 




 


First I lower the sail to the first reefing tack while pulling in the leach reefing line right to the boom. This keeps this first section of mainsail under control without falling over the side or flogging in the wind. With the first reefing leach line secured I then lower the mainsail to the second reefing tack which I secure with a snap-shackle in place of the more conventional reefing hook. This captures the second reef tack at the gooseneck while I pull in and secure the second reef leach line. 




 


At this point my mainsail is two-thirds lowered and fully under control without blowing over the side or flogging in strong winds. Lowering the remaining one-third of the sail singlehanded is now much easier to control. 




 


This process of daily reefing practice has improved and made the reefing process automatic and comfortable and it helps me to control and capture the otherwise sometimes flogging sail. Also, when I next raise my sail, if in very windy conditions, it is already fully reefed (I can tie the reefing nettles at any time after the sail is raised). I find it is much easier to shake out a reef in lighter winds than to put in a reef in heavy winds. 




 


My track is 30 mm wide and 510 mm long. Sorry for the long response. 




 


Daniel S. Swords 



S.V. “Solitude,” Hull No. 525






Bayou Castine, Mandeville, LA, Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 16, 2023, 10:11 AM, public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Jib Track (Greg Hounsell)
  2. Re: Jib Track (Gordon Laco)
  3. Re: Jib Track (Mike Meinhold)
  4. Re: Jib Track (Gordon Laco)
  5. Re: Jib Track (Wes Gardner)
  6. Inner jib T-tracks. (Pier-Andr? Bouchard St-Amant)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 08:46:51 -0400
From: Greg Hounsell <greg.hounsell at gmail.com>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
    <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: [Public-List] Jib Track
Message-ID:
    <CAF=smrjpweSyjt=g2P37VcoWZ-eZkoma5NrZ4z8yP4vog+FoEg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

My boat did not come with the short deck mounted jib track. How many find
it useful? How long is it? I assume it was a basic 25mm T track?

Greg H


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 08:57:06 -0400
From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
    <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Jib Track
Message-ID: <664C7790-9A2A-4D0B-91DE-67DFC09D07B2 at csolve.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8

We use ours in heavy air when our working jib is set.  Sheeting to that track utterly transforms the boat?s capabilities beating to windward, altering mediocre pointing to superb.

When off the wind sheets led inside through blocks on that track foul the shrouds, but I reckon that irritation is worth it to be able to sail upwind so effectively.  To those who may say ?Oh it doesn?t matter to me; I don?t race? I offer that sailing performance is more important to cruising sailors than racing sailors.  While the later compete for flags and trophies? the former need to sail well for safety and that is a lot more important.  

Being able to beat to windward to get out of trouble can be a life insurance policy one doesn?t need to leave the planet to enjoy the benefits of!

Gord



Gordon Laco
www.gordonlaco.com
705-527-9612



> On Aug 16, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> 
> My boat did not come with the short deck mounted jib track. How many find
> it useful? How long is it? I assume it was a basic 25mm T track?
> 
> Greg H
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:10:37 -0400
From: Mike Meinhold <meinhold272 at gmail.com>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
    <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Jib Track
Message-ID:
    <CAOvfohe7fcKngv06D3tN3r8PPtfL97NbJNk8KLz8=HaCSD90Lw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Second Gordon?s observations

The upwind performance of the working jib using the inner track is superb
.  I will usually double sheet the working jib so off the wind I can sheet
outside the shrouds .

We went out with the working jib for the Rankin Race on Latika in 25-35 kt,
and walked away from all the boats with their #1?s.


Mike
Rinn Duin #272
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 08:57 Gordon Laco via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> We use ours in heavy air when our working jib is set.  Sheeting to that
> track utterly transforms the boat?s capabilities beating to windward,
> altering mediocre pointing to superb.
>
> When off the wind sheets led inside through blocks on that track foul the
> shrouds, but I reckon that irritation is worth it to be able to sail upwind
> so effectively.  To those who may say ?Oh it doesn?t matter to me; I don?t
> race? I offer that sailing performance is more important to cruising
> sailors than racing sailors.  While the later compete for flags and
> trophies? the former need to sail well for safety and that is a lot more
> important.
>
> Being able to beat to windward to get out of trouble can be a life
> insurance policy one doesn?t need to leave the planet to enjoy the benefits
> of!
>
> Gord
>
>
>
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
> 705-527-9612
>
>
>
> > On Aug 16, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> > My boat did not come with the short deck mounted jib track. How many find
> > it useful? How long is it? I assume it was a basic 25mm T track?
> >
> > Greg H
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
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>


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:14:27 -0400
From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: Mike Meinhold <meinhold272 at gmail.com>
Cc: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
    <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Jib Track
Message-ID: <50E6E11F-79D1-4B56-8757-EA8674E49070 at csolve.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8

Good morning Mike, 

Good idea on the sheet doubling.  When on long reaches, we?ve put a third sheet on the clew of the jib led through the regular rail mounted sheet blocks.  Tacking is awkward but of course if one is reaching for a long time and don?t anticipate having to tack, that?s not a problem.

Gord

Gordon Laco
www.gordonlaco.com
705-527-9612



> On Aug 16, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Mike Meinhold <meinhold272 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Second Gordon?s observations
> 
> The upwind performance of the working jib using the inner track is superb .  I will usually double sheet the working jib so off the wind I can sheet outside the shrouds .  
> 
> We went out with the working jib for the Rankin Race on Latika in 25-35 kt, and walked away from all the boats with their #1?s. 
> 
> 
> Mike
> Rinn Duin #272
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 08:57 Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org <mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org>> wrote:
> We use ours in heavy air when our working jib is set.  Sheeting to that track utterly transforms the boat?s capabilities beating to windward, altering mediocre pointing to superb.
> 
> When off the wind sheets led inside through blocks on that track foul the shrouds, but I reckon that irritation is worth it to be able to sail upwind so effectively.  To those who may say ?Oh it doesn?t matter to me; I don?t race? I offer that sailing performance is more important to cruising sailors than racing sailors.  While the later compete for flags and trophies? the former need to sail well for safety and that is a lot more important.  
> 
> Being able to beat to windward to get out of trouble can be a life insurance policy one doesn?t need to leave the planet to enjoy the benefits of!
> 
> Gord
> 
> 
> 
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com <http://www.gordonlaco.com/>
> 705-527-9612
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 16, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org <mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org>> wrote:
> > 
> > My boat did not come with the short deck mounted jib track. How many find
> > it useful? How long is it? I assume it was a basic 25mm T track?
> > 
> > Greg H
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html <http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html>
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org <mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org>
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org <http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
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> Please support them.
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 10:38:27 -0400
From: Wes Gardner <wesgardner1952 at gmail.com>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
    <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Jib Track
Message-ID: <0DAF167B-1F7C-477F-B552-2CD1E1BA8B69 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

K

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2023, at 9:14 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Good morning Mike, 
> 
> Good idea on the sheet doubling.  When on long reaches, we?ve put a third sheet on the clew of the jib led through the regular rail mounted sheet blocks.  Tacking is awkward but of course if one is reaching for a long time and don?t anticipate having to tack, that?s not a problem.
> 
> Gord
> 
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
> 705-527-9612
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Mike Meinhold <meinhold272 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Second Gordon?s observations
>> 
>> The upwind performance of the working jib using the inner track is superb .  I will usually double sheet the working jib so off the wind I can sheet outside the shrouds .  
>> 
>> We went out with the working jib for the Rankin Race on Latika in 25-35 kt, and walked away from all the boats with their #1?s. 
>> 
>> 
>> Mike
>> Rinn Duin #272
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 08:57 Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org <mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org>> wrote:
>> We use ours in heavy air when our working jib is set.  Sheeting to that track utterly transforms the boat?s capabilities beating to windward, altering mediocre pointing to superb.
>> 
>> When off the wind sheets led inside through blocks on that track foul the shrouds, but I reckon that irritation is worth it to be able to sail upwind so effectively.  To those who may say ?Oh it doesn?t matter to me; I don?t race? I offer that sailing performance is more important to cruising sailors than racing sailors.  While the later compete for flags and trophies? the former need to sail well for safety and that is a lot more important.  
>> 
>> Being able to beat to windward to get out of trouble can be a life insurance policy one doesn?t need to leave the planet to enjoy the benefits of!
>> 
>> Gord
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Gordon Laco
>> www.gordonlaco.com <http://www.gordonlaco.com/>
>> 705-527-9612
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Aug 16, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Greg Hounsell via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org <mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My boat did not come with the short deck mounted jib track. How many find
>>> it useful? How long is it? I assume it was a basic 25mm T track?
>>> 
>>> Greg H
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html <http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html>
>>> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Public-List mailing list
>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org <mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org>
>>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org <http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html <http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html>
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
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>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org <http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
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> Please support them.
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 11:10:16 -0400
From: Pier-Andr? Bouchard St-Amant <pabsta at mykolab.com>
To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Subject: [Public-List] Inner jib T-tracks.
Message-ID: <21A78A06-5C62-482E-83D3-CB4F0559D47B at mykolab.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi All,
 Someone requested information on inner jib T-tracks on deck. I seem to have deleted the thread, so my apologies for starting a new one. 

Jean-du-Sud has 30 mm x 510 mm inner tracks fastened on deck by 7 bolts, giving the track 5 positions, roughly 100 mm apart, to position the pulley. The tracks serve the second jib installed on the second forestay. The track is roughly 5 degrees steeper than the boat line (it points to the forestay), and the aft  end is positioned roughly in the middle of the first large window. 

Jean-du- sud is highly customized. This setup may not be suitable for other boats, but it may provide.answers to the original question. 

If pictures are required, please send an email to svjeandusud at gmail.com and I will oblige.

Pier, #399.

------------------------------

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