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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As usual, I have a more sinister opinion as to why
successful A30's have slackish aft lowers. Mike is right, fwd pre
bend is good, and to achieve this we must tighten to fwd lowers and ease tension
on the after ones. But if the aft lowers have to be slack to achieve this
the mast will "pump" in and out of column when the boat is pitching On the A30's
I've worked on including my #426 the lowers are too long. (or stretched)
Consequently it has been tough to get fwd pre bend on the mast with any tension
at all on the after lowers. I can't believe they have stretched - I
do suspect that they were often made a bit too long. To add to the
seriousness of this - my late uncle Con Costas was the mastmaker who supplied
much rigging to Whitby Boatworks during the 60's and early 70's. Sorry
Unc!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On my list of things to do is to make new lowers
about 1.5" shorter. That way I can tune in the right minute curve and hold
it there with tight lowers all around.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gord</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>#426 Surprise</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:sail_505@hotmail.com" title=sail_505@hotmail.com>Mike
Lehman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:public-list@alberg30.org"
title=public-list@alberg30.org>public-list@alberg30.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:29
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud
tension</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Tightening the forward lowers puts a little pre-bend in the mast helping to
flatten the main and reduces some of the weather helm. The aft lowers really
aren't contributing and having them loose allows the mast to bend forward
sligghtly as the wind increases. They are acting essentially as preventers to
avoid too much forward bend in the middle. What you want to avoid is having a
reverse bend because when the mast comes out of column forward, that is when
bad things happen.<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>Mike Lehman
<DIV></DIV>"Gilleleje" #505
<DIV></DIV>(410) 544-9067
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>----Original Message Follows----
<DIV></DIV>From: Brian and Elaine Timmins <TIMMINS@OPTONLINE.NET>
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: public-list@alberg30.org
<DIV></DIV>To: public-list@alberg30.org
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:07:44 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>The only reason I can imagine to have the after lowers loose would
be that
<DIV></DIV>when the mast does flex, it will go forward in the mid section,
which will
<DIV></DIV>have the effect of flattening the main sail some. More wind, more
flex,
<DIV></DIV>flatter sail.
<DIV></DIV>Maybe some more experienced Albergers have a different reason?
<DIV></DIV>Brian #497
<DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>From: "Dave Terrell" <DTERRELL.GWSTAFF.GWNMC@MESSAGE.NMC.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>To: <PUBLIC-LIST@ALBERG30.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:41 PM
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Thanks for the info. When I looked at my Loos I came to the
same
<DIV></DIV>conclusion. If a person went for the 10% figure the 1/4 inch
stays/shourds
<DIV></DIV>would be set at about 850 pounds, the 3/6 shourds at about 500
pounds, and
<DIV></DIV>the forestay/backstay as you indicate.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> What I do not understand is why there seems to be a
tendency(based on the
<DIV></DIV>figures provided) to under tension the Alberg 30 rig (by Loos
standards).
<DIV></DIV>What really puzzles me is the tendency to have little to no tension
on the
<DIV></DIV>aft lower shroud.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Right now I would have to assume that tensioning practice is
based upon
<DIV></DIV>experience, but I really would like to know why it works if that
really is
<DIV></DIV>the case. Any insight on this would be appreciated.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >>> timmins@optonline.net 01/09/02 11:38PM
>>>
<DIV></DIV>> Sorry about taking so long to respond. It took a while to
locate the info.
<DIV></DIV>> From my Loos Instructions, 1/4" wire breaking strength is 8200
lbs and
<DIV></DIV>3/16" is 4700 lbs. Additionally, Loos recommends 1/4" forestay set
to 1300
<DIV></DIV>lbs, 1/4" shrouds set to 850 lbs, and 3/16 shrouds set to 500 lbs.
<DIV></DIV>> The relationship of forestay / backstay is something I can't
comment on
<DIV></DIV>directly since I've got roller furling on the forestay and
therefore can't
<DIV></DIV>easily measure the tension there. Loos makes the statement, "Since
the
<DIV></DIV>backstay makes a greater angle to the mast, the backstay tension
will be
<DIV></DIV>lower than the forestay tension."
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: Dave Terrell
<DIV></DIV>> To: public-list@alberg30.org
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:51 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> How do these numbers fit with the general guidelne that
shrouds should
<DIV></DIV>be tensioned between 10 and 12% of the breaking strength the wire?
This is
<DIV></DIV>what the instructions for my Loos tension guide said and that has
been my
<DIV></DIV>guideline in the past. That worked on my old boat, a CAL 27 T-2. If
the
<DIV></DIV>application of the rule to my "new" Alberg 30 is different, I would
like to
<DIV></DIV>know. I appreciate having this source of informatioin avaliable.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >>> timmins@optonline.net 12/28/01 06:37PM
>>>
<DIV></DIV>> These are the conclusions I drew from the list when it was
published in
<DIV></DIV>May
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Average tensions of the whole list:
<DIV></DIV>> Forestay/Backstay............733
<DIV></DIV>> Backstay only...................726
<DIV></DIV>> Forestay only....................735.6
<DIV></DIV>> Uppers.............................685
<DIV></DIV>> Fwd Lowers.....................495
<DIV></DIV>> Aft Lowers........................0 (loose)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Race Boats Only Averages:
<DIV></DIV>> Forestay only....................811
<DIV></DIV>> No backstay only
<DIV></DIV>> Uppers..............................862
<DIV></DIV>> Fwd Lowers......................679
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Based on these numbers and info taken from Brion Toss's video
on rig
<DIV></DIV>tuning
<DIV></DIV>> (and his web site), This is how I set up my mast.
<DIV></DIV>> Starting with the mast vertical, tighten the forestay to
snug/tight but
<DIV></DIV>not
<DIV></DIV>> to pull the mast forward of vertical.
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten the backstay to 625
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten uppers to 750
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten Fwd lowers to 620
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten Aft lowers to slack/100
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> After sailing a bit, I reset the backstay to 700
<DIV></DIV>> These numbers worked very well for me and the boat was nicely
balanced.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Don't ask me to explain my logic anymore (this was done in
June). I just
<DIV></DIV>> happened to come across my note sheet from doing the job.
<DIV></DIV>> All tensions were done with a Loos Model B, part # 90 gauge
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Regards,
<DIV></DIV>> Brian
<DIV></DIV>> #497
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: "George Dinwiddie" <GDINWIDDIE@MIN.NET>
<DIV></DIV>> To: <PUBLIC-LIST@ALBERG30.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:41 AM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>> snip
<DIV></DIV>> > If anyone can draw some general conclusions from this
list,
<DIV></DIV>> > I think we'd all like to hear it.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> snip
<DIV></DIV>>
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