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<DIV><FONT size=2>Johnny Pawl passed away this week, 84 years old. George
K</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gord@transatmarine.com href="mailto:gord@transatmarine.com">Gord
Laco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=public-list@alberg30.org
href="mailto:public-list@alberg30.org">public-list@alberg30.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 14, 2002 6:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud
tension</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As usual, I have a more sinister opinion as to
why successful A30's have slackish aft lowers. Mike is right, fwd
pre bend is good, and to achieve this we must tighten to fwd lowers and ease
tension on the after ones. But if the aft lowers have to be slack to
achieve this the mast will "pump" in and out of column when the boat is
pitching On the A30's I've worked on including my #426 the lowers are too
long. (or stretched) Consequently it has been tough to get fwd pre bend
on the mast with any tension at all on the after lowers. I can't
believe they have stretched - I do suspect that they were often made a bit too
long. To add to the seriousness of this - my late uncle Con Costas was
the mastmaker who supplied much rigging to Whitby Boatworks during the 60's
and early 70's. Sorry Unc!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On my list of things to do is to make new lowers
about 1.5" shorter. That way I can tune in the right minute curve and
hold it there with tight lowers all around.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gord</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>#426 Surprise</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sail_505@hotmail.com href="mailto:sail_505@hotmail.com">Mike
Lehman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=public-list@alberg30.org
href="mailto:public-list@alberg30.org">public-list@alberg30.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:29
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud
tension</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Tightening the forward lowers puts a little pre-bend in the mast helping
to flatten the main and reduces some of the weather helm. The aft lowers
really aren't contributing and having them loose allows the mast to bend
forward sligghtly as the wind increases. They are acting essentially as
preventers to avoid too much forward bend in the middle. What you want to
avoid is having a reverse bend because when the mast comes out of column
forward, that is when bad things happen.<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>Mike Lehman
<DIV></DIV>"Gilleleje" #505
<DIV></DIV>(410) 544-9067
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>----Original Message Follows----
<DIV></DIV>From: Brian and Elaine Timmins <TIMMINS@OPTONLINE.NET>
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: public-list@alberg30.org
<DIV></DIV>To: public-list@alberg30.org
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 23:07:44 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>The only reason I can imagine to have the after lowers loose
would be that
<DIV></DIV>when the mast does flex, it will go forward in the mid section,
which will
<DIV></DIV>have the effect of flattening the main sail some. More wind, more
flex,
<DIV></DIV>flatter sail.
<DIV></DIV>Maybe some more experienced Albergers have a different reason?
<DIV></DIV>Brian #497
<DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>From: "Dave Terrell" <DTERRELL.GWSTAFF.GWNMC@MESSAGE.NMC.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>To: <PUBLIC-LIST@ALBERG30.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:41 PM
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Thanks for the info. When I looked at my Loos I came to the
same
<DIV></DIV>conclusion. If a person went for the 10% figure the 1/4 inch
stays/shourds
<DIV></DIV>would be set at about 850 pounds, the 3/6 shourds at about 500
pounds, and
<DIV></DIV>the forestay/backstay as you indicate.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> What I do not understand is why there seems to be a
tendency(based on the
<DIV></DIV>figures provided) to under tension the Alberg 30 rig (by Loos
standards).
<DIV></DIV>What really puzzles me is the tendency to have little to no
tension on the
<DIV></DIV>aft lower shroud.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Right now I would have to assume that tensioning practice is
based upon
<DIV></DIV>experience, but I really would like to know why it works if that
really is
<DIV></DIV>the case. Any insight on this would be appreciated.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >>> timmins@optonline.net 01/09/02 11:38PM
>>>
<DIV></DIV>> Sorry about taking so long to respond. It took a while to
locate the info.
<DIV></DIV>> From my Loos Instructions, 1/4" wire breaking strength is
8200 lbs and
<DIV></DIV>3/16" is 4700 lbs. Additionally, Loos recommends 1/4" forestay
set to 1300
<DIV></DIV>lbs, 1/4" shrouds set to 850 lbs, and 3/16 shrouds set to 500
lbs.
<DIV></DIV>> The relationship of forestay / backstay is something I can't
comment on
<DIV></DIV>directly since I've got roller furling on the forestay and
therefore can't
<DIV></DIV>easily measure the tension there. Loos makes the statement,
"Since the
<DIV></DIV>backstay makes a greater angle to the mast, the backstay tension
will be
<DIV></DIV>lower than the forestay tension."
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: Dave Terrell
<DIV></DIV>> To: public-list@alberg30.org
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:51 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> How do these numbers fit with the general guidelne that
shrouds should
<DIV></DIV>be tensioned between 10 and 12% of the breaking strength the
wire? This is
<DIV></DIV>what the instructions for my Loos tension guide said and that has
been my
<DIV></DIV>guideline in the past. That worked on my old boat, a CAL 27 T-2.
If the
<DIV></DIV>application of the rule to my "new" Alberg 30 is different, I
would like to
<DIV></DIV>know. I appreciate having this source of informatioin avaliable.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >>> timmins@optonline.net 12/28/01 06:37PM
>>>
<DIV></DIV>> These are the conclusions I drew from the list when it was
published in
<DIV></DIV>May
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Average tensions of the whole list:
<DIV></DIV>> Forestay/Backstay............733
<DIV></DIV>> Backstay only...................726
<DIV></DIV>> Forestay only....................735.6
<DIV></DIV>> Uppers.............................685
<DIV></DIV>> Fwd Lowers.....................495
<DIV></DIV>> Aft Lowers........................0 (loose)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Race Boats Only Averages:
<DIV></DIV>> Forestay only....................811
<DIV></DIV>> No backstay only
<DIV></DIV>> Uppers..............................862
<DIV></DIV>> Fwd Lowers......................679
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Based on these numbers and info taken from Brion Toss's
video on rig
<DIV></DIV>tuning
<DIV></DIV>> (and his web site), This is how I set up my mast.
<DIV></DIV>> Starting with the mast vertical, tighten the forestay to
snug/tight but
<DIV></DIV>not
<DIV></DIV>> to pull the mast forward of vertical.
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten the backstay to 625
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten uppers to 750
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten Fwd lowers to 620
<DIV></DIV>> Tighten Aft lowers to slack/100
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> After sailing a bit, I reset the backstay to 700
<DIV></DIV>> These numbers worked very well for me and the boat was
nicely balanced.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Don't ask me to explain my logic anymore (this was done in
June). I just
<DIV></DIV>> happened to come across my note sheet from doing the job.
<DIV></DIV>> All tensions were done with a Loos Model B, part # 90 gauge
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Regards,
<DIV></DIV>> Brian
<DIV></DIV>> #497
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: "George Dinwiddie" <GDINWIDDIE@MIN.NET>
<DIV></DIV>> To: <PUBLIC-LIST@ALBERG30.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:41 AM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Alberg30] tunning, shroud tension
<DIV></DIV>> snip
<DIV></DIV>> > If anyone can draw some general conclusions from this
list,
<DIV></DIV>> > I think we'd all like to hear it.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> snip
<DIV></DIV>>
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