[Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion

Fri Sep 30 07:28:22 PDT 2005

The Y-Flyer has had the same difficulty with weight on new hulls.  I have 2416
in the barn. This was originally a wooden boat at 500 lbs and with glass hulls,
they could be made lighter. Weights were added to the glass hulls but all on the
centere line and low, so there is an increased stability with the glass hull
compared to the wooden one. Woodys are competative in light air when all are
flat, but to be really in the top, one  needs a glass hull these days. There has
been a great volume of discussion among Y Flyer rules committees on this point
too over the years.
    What you are asking is to change the shape of the drag and waterline on the
AL30 if you can remove both the motor from the hull and the prop from the water
using an outboard, and place the weight wherever it will fit well. Changing the
requirement of a prop in the water at all times is beyond one design limits for
most purists. The dinghys have at least maintained the waterline and drag
co-efficient a constant.
    Where there are open design classes like the Moth, the hulls have become
more narrow with less surface on the water,  and lighter, and have now gone to
hydrofoils so the hull is not in the water. The world champ sailed all but a few
yards of the last Worlds on the hydrofoils. Not bad for a one man boat. If you
want speed and design challenges, there are places for that.
    Most one-design classes want the first and last hull to be on a level laying
field and safe. In my experience, outboards on sailing vessels (which then have
2 steering mechanisms) add considerable conditions to safety at the helm. I was
on a C&C 24 last weekend where the motor was not locked parallel to the length
and the skipper nearly hit boats because he could not reach the motor to correct
the steerage that it gave to override the tiller. The Alberg 22, with the motor
in the lazarette is not an easily steered hull under power, because the prop
wash is not over the rudder. The rudder is levered well ahead of that and
turning is really slow in a wide arc.
    While outboards are a choice, and any owner has choices for his own boat, he
also needs to be aware of how he will devalue the hull with the choices he
makes. Reducing the racing capability or the safety are but two of the choices
we all make every day. We have seen on ths site laminated sails for sale out of
NewYork that did not sell at their perceived value  because they were of no use
to most of us. Experience is a great teacher and most of us have paid a price
for some of it. Hopefully others will at least get enough material from our
experience to pay their own price for their choices.
Don

#528

J Bergquist wrote:

> Mike-
>
> Great. Thanks for the effort to clarify the rules. That would be great.
>
> >From my perspective, it would seem like a reasonable thing to install
> equivalent corrector weight which would bring the boat back to the same
> displacement as other boats. For example, I could install additional
> batteries.
>
> This is a fairly standard practice in other one-design fleets. For example,
> 5o5's can be built with modern construction techniques such that they are 20
> KG or more underweight (the boat only weighs 128 kg total). That's almost
> 20% of the total boat weight. This is allowed under the class rules, but
> offending boats must install lead corrector weights at specified locations
> to compensate for the fact that their boats are lighter. To me, this seems
> like a reasonable solution. And generally, I am a fan of allowing people the
> freedom to do what they want with their boats, so long as a level playing
> field is maintained.
>
> I plan to be at the rendezvous on Saturday, so we could discuss this issue
> there if you want.
>
> Then again, maybe we should just have a few beers and catch up since I
> haven't seen you since the O's game last year!
>
> Or maybe you can convince me of what kind of diesel I should install...
>
> ;-)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> J
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Mike Lehman
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:22 AM
> To: public-list at alberg30.org
> Subject: RE: [Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion
>
> J
>
> I am on the rules committee. There isn't, as far as I know, a hard -and-fast
>
> rule regarding engines specifically. I will call a meeting of the rules
> committee so we can discuss the matter and see if we can come to s a
> resolution and perhaps an amendment to the rules which will cover this
> subject clearly. The membership, at the annual dinner in January, has to
> vote on any bylaw or rules changes.
>
> Mike Lehman
> ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "J Bergquist" <JOHN.R.BERGQUIST at saic.com>
> Reply-To: j at ship.saic.com,Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at alberg30.org>
> To: "'Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all'" <public-list at alberg30.org>
> Subject: RE: [Public-list] re:  "let me race?"was another outboard
> discussion
> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:52:00 -0400
>
> Michael-
>
> Wait a minute, this is not a fair answer. I am asking the question IN
> ADVANCE of making any changes to my boat. I would expect the class
> association (or any individual) to return the favor and give me an answer IN
> ADVANCE about the class rules rather than wait until AFTER I start racing.
>
> This answer below would be analogous to me walking into the police station
> and enquiring about the speed limit. If the response was "well, it's not
> actually documented in terms of hard numbers, but don't be surprised if we
> slap you with a $150 fine if you go too fast." That would be like what
> you're saying below.
>
> I am being open and honest about asking questions about how changing my boat
> will affect my ability to race one design. I feel that the reasonable thing
> for the association to do would be to give me an answer which will stick
> after I start racing. Changing the rules after the game begins is definitely
> not sportsmanlike!
>
> I don't think your e-mail below is meant to represent the association.
> Nevertheless, I think that it's only fair to expect an advance answer to my
> question. Because otherwise, I might find out after I've spent a pile of
> money that I can't race my boat. Now that would be a major disappointment!
>
> J
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of
> dickdurk at atlanticbb.net
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:22 PM
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Subject: Re: [Public-list] re: "let me race?"was another outboard discussion
>
>  >What is the wisdom of the "old salts"?
>
> Don't know about that "old salt" business, I say; race
> away, but if you start winning, expect protest.
>
> Part Two-Rules And Regulations
>    Section 18 Standard equipment shall include all
> equipment normally supplied with the standard A-30 as of
> Nov. 1. 1964...
> and
>    Section 4 All hulls shall conform to the design and
> specification of the A-30 built by the Whitby Boat Works
> and shall remain unchanged so as to preserve the
> one-design aspect of the Class....
> and
>    Section 3 ...The Rules Committee shall have the
>    power to declare a boat ineligible.
>
> Was it Mark Twain who said; "Regulations are the refuge of
> scoundrels"? :)
>
> Michael Grosh
> #220
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-list mailing list
> Public-list at alberg30.org
> http://alberg30.org/mailman/listinfo/public-list

 1128090502.0