[Public-List] [Public-list] Bilge (main sail shape)

John Birch Sunstone at cogeco.ca
Tue Feb 24 10:53:13 PST 2009 

Hi Gord

When my first main was built in 95 I was woefully unhappy with it, Joe had 
used the more modern style with deep shelf - it was way over powered with 
far too much shelf. If you look at an OEM Taylor Main (A Fernandez built by 
the way - he used to work for Tom Taylor) you will notice it was fairly flat 
and little shelf.

He took the main back and built a new one and asked me to come down a help 
him loft it - what an opportunity to lean from a master

I told him the end results I wanted to see and then he redesigned the sail 
to accommodate

It was a wonderful opportunity for me to learn and I helped save on the 
labour costs - a great synergy

I also learned to never complain about the cost of a sail, the labour is 
unbelievable - 3 days building to make a sail

He used the best cloth and did the two ply leach for the last 2 or so feet 
(7.5 oz x 2 = 15oz at the leach, where most sails fail - this won't, the sun 
will eventually eat it)

Joe was a wonderful person and honourable business man and his son has 
inherited those traits

He used to thank me each and every time I came over because I spread the 
word about him and he claimed I got him lots of new business, often from 
folks we whooped on the race course

When you buy a Triton made sail you are really buying a big bag of whoop-ass 
; )

I miss him dreadfully - he was a wonderful human being

His son, as I said, has inherited those traits

Only good things

John


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] [Public-list] Bilge (main sail shape)


> Well I am pleased to stand corrected... Particularly since my last and
> persistant complaint about SURPRISE's performance is that I can't get her 
> to
> point.
>
> Gord
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/24/09 1:32 PM, "John Birch" <Sunstone at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gord,
>>
>> I would respectfully disagree about roach, get as much as you can without
>> hitting the backs stay (too hard; )
>>
>> Counter the weather helm issue by having the main built fairly flat with
>> minimal shelf
>>
>> I think if I remember correctly I only have about 2 1/2 - 3 inches shelf
>> compared to the average new style main built with 5-7 inches of shelf
>>
>> As a result Sunstone points like the dickens and the helm is less 
>> Weatherly.
>> When I need to depower the helm I drop the traveler and flatten the main
>> further with the out hall
>>
>> We won a lot of races against fin keelers pointing virtually as well as
>> they.
>>
>> Sunstone walks and rocks to weather and it is a great sail
>>
>> Also, we have as much main foot as legal.
>>
>> Roach is good, shelf is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
>>
>> Respectfully yours
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" 
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] [Public-list] Bilge
>>
>>
>>> Hi Pete -
>>>
>>> I have a little bit of a predjudice against the big franchise lofts 
>>> unless
>>> a
>>> particular operation has people in it who have sympathy for heavy
>>> traditional boats and have insights into what they need.
>>>
>>> I heard about an A30 main where the sailmaker, who did not have sympathy
>>> or
>>> respect for older designs, assumed that the only way to go was to boost
>>> area
>>> and talked the fellow into a main with a big roach.
>>>
>>> Well of course the A30 is sensitive to increase in power aft of the 
>>> mast -
>>> it wrecks the steering and increases heeling to no good effect.  What 
>>> the
>>> poor guy ended up with was a bigger more powerful new main that retained
>>> for
>>> him all the handling problems of the old blown out one. (but it was new
>>> and
>>> crispy)
>>>
>>> I would recommend Joe Fernades son Ron, who carries on the family 
>>> business
>>> since we lost Joe in '02.  If you write to me off list I can give you 
>>> his
>>> contact co-ordinates.
>>>
>>> Cheers - Gord #426
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/09 1:16 PM, "Pete Staehling" <pete.staehling at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am in Parkville (north side of Baltimore).   It would be nice to have 
>>>> a
>>>> nice new sail.  I think the old now dead one was original, so it was 
>>>> very
>>>> bagged out.   The previous owner described it as "nice and soft" :)
>>>>
>>>> I don't know enough about any of the sail makers to have a preference.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Pete -
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your desire to try to find a sail quickly...but with 
>>>>> regard
>>>>> to
>>>>> racing vs cruising I can say that cruisers really have a better reason
>>>>> to
>>>>> have good mains than racers.
>>>>>
>>>>> A nice shape in your main will knock a significant number of degrees 
>>>>> off
>>>>> your angle of heel in every wind speed. The boat will be much easier 
>>>>> to
>>>>> steer and the cumulative effect will be the same as if you changed 
>>>>> your
>>>>> ballast from iron to lead.  But of course with no actual increase in
>>>>> weight!!!  oh - I forgot to say - you will sail faster in most wind
>>>>> speeds
>>>>> but the stuff I described above is more important to comfort and 
>>>>> safety.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect this year sailmakers can be found with space in their
>>>>> production
>>>>> schedules.  Making an A30 main from scratch does not take more than a
>>>>> few
>>>>> days; and is really worth every penny.  I have a sailmaker I am loyal 
>>>>> to
>>>>> (who made our boat's sails when the class was in production) but you 
>>>>> may
>>>>> have your favourite.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do you live?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gord #426 SURPRISE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/09 1:00 PM, "Pete Staehling" <staehpj1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been away from the list for a couple years.  I am the owner of
>>>>> #554
>>>>>> "Aurora".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems that I need a new mainsail.  I am open to suggestions, but I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> want to wait too long to get one, so having one made somewhere with a
>>>>> long
>>>>>> turnaround time may not be my first choice.  As a casual cruiser I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> need a real high performance sail and may be happy with buying 
>>>>>> someones
>>>>> used
>>>>>> cast off.  Aurora currently has roller reefing, but I would prefer to
>>>>>> go
>>>>> to
>>>>>> slab reefing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know of a used sail for sale that might suit me?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I opt for a new sail where would you recommend I go, what kind of
>>>>> price
>>>>>> and turn around time can I expect?
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please support them.
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