[Public-List] [Public-list] Bilge (main sail shape)
Gordon Laco
mainstay at csolve.net
Tue Feb 24 11:06:06 PST 2009
Thanks for the wonderful story about Joe - we miss him too. When he worked
at Tom Taylor Co my uncle was the manager of the rigging shop there. My
uncle passed away many years ago but I was very proud that I was the last
rigger at Taylor's, working with my uncle's tools and very much aware of
his legacy. Joe was a great guy and I also enjoy running into people who
remember Conny Costas, my uncle.
G
On 2/24/09 1:53 PM, "John Birch" <Sunstone at cogeco.ca> wrote:
> Hi Gord
>
> When my first main was built in 95 I was woefully unhappy with it, Joe had
> used the more modern style with deep shelf - it was way over powered with
> far too much shelf. If you look at an OEM Taylor Main (A Fernandez built by
> the way - he used to work for Tom Taylor) you will notice it was fairly flat
> and little shelf.
>
> He took the main back and built a new one and asked me to come down a help
> him loft it - what an opportunity to lean from a master
>
> I told him the end results I wanted to see and then he redesigned the sail
> to accommodate
>
> It was a wonderful opportunity for me to learn and I helped save on the
> labour costs - a great synergy
>
> I also learned to never complain about the cost of a sail, the labour is
> unbelievable - 3 days building to make a sail
>
> He used the best cloth and did the two ply leach for the last 2 or so feet
> (7.5 oz x 2 = 15oz at the leach, where most sails fail - this won't, the sun
> will eventually eat it)
>
> Joe was a wonderful person and honourable business man and his son has
> inherited those traits
>
> He used to thank me each and every time I came over because I spread the
> word about him and he claimed I got him lots of new business, often from
> folks we whooped on the race course
>
> When you buy a Triton made sail you are really buying a big bag of whoop-ass
> ; )
>
> I miss him dreadfully - he was a wonderful human being
>
> His son, as I said, has inherited those traits
>
> Only good things
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] [Public-list] Bilge (main sail shape)
>
>
>> Well I am pleased to stand corrected... Particularly since my last and
>> persistant complaint about SURPRISE's performance is that I can't get her
>> to
>> point.
>>
>> Gord
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/09 1:32 PM, "John Birch" <Sunstone at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gord,
>>>
>>> I would respectfully disagree about roach, get as much as you can without
>>> hitting the backs stay (too hard; )
>>>
>>> Counter the weather helm issue by having the main built fairly flat with
>>> minimal shelf
>>>
>>> I think if I remember correctly I only have about 2 1/2 - 3 inches shelf
>>> compared to the average new style main built with 5-7 inches of shelf
>>>
>>> As a result Sunstone points like the dickens and the helm is less
>>> Weatherly.
>>> When I need to depower the helm I drop the traveler and flatten the main
>>> further with the out hall
>>>
>>> We won a lot of races against fin keelers pointing virtually as well as
>>> they.
>>>
>>> Sunstone walks and rocks to weather and it is a great sail
>>>
>>> Also, we have as much main foot as legal.
>>>
>>> Roach is good, shelf is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
>>>
>>> Respectfully yours
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
>>> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] [Public-list] Bilge
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Pete -
>>>>
>>>> I have a little bit of a predjudice against the big franchise lofts
>>>> unless
>>>> a
>>>> particular operation has people in it who have sympathy for heavy
>>>> traditional boats and have insights into what they need.
>>>>
>>>> I heard about an A30 main where the sailmaker, who did not have sympathy
>>>> or
>>>> respect for older designs, assumed that the only way to go was to boost
>>>> area
>>>> and talked the fellow into a main with a big roach.
>>>>
>>>> Well of course the A30 is sensitive to increase in power aft of the
>>>> mast -
>>>> it wrecks the steering and increases heeling to no good effect. What
>>>> the
>>>> poor guy ended up with was a bigger more powerful new main that retained
>>>> for
>>>> him all the handling problems of the old blown out one. (but it was new
>>>> and
>>>> crispy)
>>>>
>>>> I would recommend Joe Fernades son Ron, who carries on the family
>>>> business
>>>> since we lost Joe in '02. If you write to me off list I can give you
>>>> his
>>>> contact co-ordinates.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers - Gord #426
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/24/09 1:16 PM, "Pete Staehling" <pete.staehling at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am in Parkville (north side of Baltimore). It would be nice to have
>>>>> a
>>>>> nice new sail. I think the old now dead one was original, so it was
>>>>> very
>>>>> bagged out. The previous owner described it as "nice and soft" :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know enough about any of the sail makers to have a preference.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Pete -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand your desire to try to find a sail quickly...but with
>>>>>> regard
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> racing vs cruising I can say that cruisers really have a better reason
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> have good mains than racers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A nice shape in your main will knock a significant number of degrees
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> your angle of heel in every wind speed. The boat will be much easier
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> steer and the cumulative effect will be the same as if you changed
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> ballast from iron to lead. But of course with no actual increase in
>>>>>> weight!!! oh - I forgot to say - you will sail faster in most wind
>>>>>> speeds
>>>>>> but the stuff I described above is more important to comfort and
>>>>>> safety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect this year sailmakers can be found with space in their
>>>>>> production
>>>>>> schedules. Making an A30 main from scratch does not take more than a
>>>>>> few
>>>>>> days; and is really worth every penny. I have a sailmaker I am loyal
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> (who made our boat's sails when the class was in production) but you
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> have your favourite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do you live?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gord #426 SURPRISE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/24/09 1:00 PM, "Pete Staehling" <staehpj1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been away from the list for a couple years. I am the owner of
>>>>>> #554
>>>>>>> "Aurora".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems that I need a new mainsail. I am open to suggestions, but I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> want to wait too long to get one, so having one made somewhere with a
>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> turnaround time may not be my first choice. As a casual cruiser I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> need a real high performance sail and may be happy with buying
>>>>>>> someones
>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> cast off. Aurora currently has roller reefing, but I would prefer to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> slab reefing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone know of a used sail for sale that might suit me?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I opt for a new sail where would you recommend I go, what kind of
>>>>>> price
>>>>>>> and turn around time can I expect?
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>
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