[Public-List] Adding weight to the keel and other things

Gordon Laco mainstay at csolve.net
Mon May 2 08:16:45 PDT 2011


Hi Roger - 

The trouble with 'balancing' by moving ballast forward is that the yacht's
pitching moment goes up dramatically.... What would be gained through better
trim is lost (and more) due to the increase tendency to 'hobby-horse' or
pitch.   

Fascinating stuff.... One thing's connected to the next thing....

Gord  #426 SURPRISE


On 02/05/11 10:53 AM, "Roger L. Kingsland" <r.kingsland at ksba.com> wrote:

> Len,
> 
> I just drilled a hole through the centerline just aft of the seat between
> the forward V berth for my transducer.  I discovered, on good old 148, the
> forward edge of the keel is about 6" aft of the seat bulkhead and just a few
> inches under the V berth sole.  Between keel and hull is what looks like
> grey sand (perhaps a mixture of sand and cement) that is easily chipped
> away.  I understand from other Albergers that the cast iron keel is
> encapsulated in this stuff so you will have to go thru it when fastening new
> lead.  Since the weight of the keel is partially held in place by the bottom
> of the fiberglass, I would be concerned about removing any glass.
> 
> Given Gord's comment about squatting and the keel running so far forward, I
> wonder if it might be necessary to add weight forward of the bottom of the
> keel to achieve "balance" (a navel architect should be able to figure that
> out).  I have also noticed that the leading (diagonal) edge of the hull, up
> to about 3 feet forward of the bottom, is flat and have thought rounding
> that section would reduce drag.
> 
> If the weight needs to be forward of the flat part of the keel, you could
> add a curved "tongue" that would attach to both the flat and diagonal parts
> of the keel fastening it vertically through the fiberglass to the existing
> cast iron.  Of course you would have to insure a good connection of the new
> keel bolts to the bottom of the cast iron and it would add a few inches of
> draft.
> 
> The other issue is how you get access to the bottom of the keel.  I kept my
> boat in a factory with 20 ton overhead cranes for a few years and thought
> about lowering the boat on its side with the keel and curve of the hull on
> the factory floor.  I actually bought a 4' x 8' "dunnage bag" to place under
> the curve of the hull.  Dunnage bags are inflatable and placed between cargo
> to stabilize it.  Turns out their load capacity is quite high.  I thought,
> by putting good old 148 on her side it would be easier to finish the hull.
> Unfortunately, I got evicted before I could try it.  The bag is yours if you
> want it.         
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roger Kingsland, Managing Partner
> 
> Kingsland Scott Bauer Associates
> 
>  
> 
>    KSBA 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Architects/Planners/InteriorDesigners/ProjectManagers
> 
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> 
> 3441 Butler Street
> 
> Pittsburgh, PA 15201
> 
> N 40° 27.8344'  W79° 57.9831'
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> 
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> 
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> 
> www.ksba.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org
> [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Len Payne
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:51 AM
> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> Subject: [Public-List] Adding weight to the keel and other things
> 
> Good Morning, All,
> I have been considering how to add weight to an under-weight keel.
> One of the things I have been thinking about is stripping the glass from the
> keel in an area just above (3 or 4 inches) the bottom of the keel and nearly
> the full length of the keel in that area. Then, by drilling and tapping 2
> 1/2" holes into the keel, through lead plates, to hold the plates to the
> keel on both sides. The plates would be 24" x 6" x 1", three on each side -
> laid lengthwise - end to end, would total about 1/2 cuft of lead (about
> 350#, 1 cuft = 708#). Each plate would weigh just under 60#, so would be a
> manageable weight. The plates would be faired according to it's position on
> the keel and would be bolted to the side of the keel, epoxied in place, and
> glassed in to become an integral part of the keel. This would add nothing to
> the draft and would only a 2" to the width of the keel. The additional
> 300-350# would be no more than that of a large passenger, or a big skipper
> and beer, so it should not affect the way the boat rides in relation to the
> waterline. Furt
>  her, being 3-1/2' below the waterline, spread out along the keel length,
> fairly 'centered' relative to the center of gravity, the trim should not be
> significantly affected - certainly no more than a 40gal water tank under the
> V-berth (330# plus, above the waterline, very far forward). The additional
> "Righting Moment" of 300-350#, 3-1/2 feet below the waterline would,
> certainly, not be negligible.
> If one were about to strip the hull because of the need for a barrier-coat,
> how much additional work would it be to remove the glass down to bare iron
> (if the keel is cast) or attaching the plates to the outer skin of the keel
> and through-bolting to the opposite plate, then glassing the whole thing in
> place.
> Yes, I really want you comments, else I would not be soliciting same. Are
> there things that I have not considered? Other possible effects from doing
> this? Does anyone know "exactly" how the keels are constructed? Are they
> junk iron cast in epoxy, are they glassed, cast iron? Has anyone seen a keel
> that has come apart?
> Yes, I welcome any and all comments and/or suggestions.
> Thanks to all in advance.
> Len
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